Justin Verlander wins AL MVP; Michael Young finishes 8th
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 1:14 PM CST
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PrintJustin Verlander was voted best pitcher and now best player in the American League for the 2011 season. Verlander finished with 13 first place votes and a total of 280 points in winning the MVP award. Jacoby Ellsbury finished second in the voting with 242 points. Jose Bautista finished third and had the second most first place votes with five. Curtis Granderson (3 first place votes) and Miguel Cabrera (2 first place votes) rounded out the top five.
As for the Rangers, Michael Young finished 8th in the voting behind Robinson Cano and Adrian Gonzalez. Young did receive the only other first place vote (That you, Evan Grant? It is!) and finished with 96 points. Ian Kinsler finished 11th in the voting but once again placed lower than Dustin Pedroia at something. Adrian Beltre finished 15th in the voting and even Josh Hamilton showed up in the balloting at #22.
You can view the full voting table here.
Let the debate on if a pitcher is worthy of this award rage on into the night.
Personally, and likely because the Rangers didn't really have a terribly legitimate horse in this race, I can't seem to muster a side to saddle up with on this topic to join in in the vitriol. Verlander, looking at the years everyone had in 2011, is a defensible choice, in my opinion. He's not the guy I would have picked (I picked Jose Bautista in the SB Nation balloting) but he had a truly elite season for a starting pitcher when those are increasingly rare.
Verlander's efforts included a no-hitter and a lead in nearly every pitching category imaginable, on a team that won a division title, in a year when his main competitors were either Yankees or players on teams that missed the playoffs. If ever there were a year to award this to a great, great pitcher, this is it. (Or 1999. Sorry, Pudge.)
I don't know that the BBWAA got it right, I just don't really care that much if they got it wrong.
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And thus baseball gave us another round of "Take him away and his team doesn't make the playoffs" conversation
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
He did not put Face first...
REALLY?
At least I get to see the Rangers when they play the Twins now.
I was just trying to make a funny...
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 1:19 PM CST up reply actions
Humor is usually based in reality somewhere.
Defending Big D Check it out
Twitter
"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
We've heard his explanation before.
No reason to listen to it again.
Defending Big D Check it out
Twitter
"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
Hit in the head as a child?
I am guessing that is it.
At least I get to see the Rangers when they play the Twins now.
Trolls gonna troll.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
If anyone needed further confirmation...
Evan Grant voted MY first on his ballot. And didn’t include Kinsler. What a joke.
"self policing" implies that the group will implement punishments based on violations of the group’s defined ethic. What are we gonna do? Make fun of someone until they quit the internet forever? - Bob Loblaw 7/21/2011
Well, just when you thought it couldn't be done...Evan managed to
take his fucktardary to a higher level.
I was right in the middle of a fucking reptile zoo! And somebody was giving booze to these god damn things! It wont be long now, before they tear us to shreds.
They see me trollin
Evan_P_Grant Evan Grant
Embarrassing to vote a guy who hit .338, 106 RBIs, played three diff. INF positions and had at least 100 Abs in 3 key lineup spots MVP
"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11
Yes
Defending Big D Check it out
Twitter
"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
No kidding
I mean, I thought Verlander should have won but I can totally see the reason why someone would think he shouldn’t but I can’t see at ALL why someone would think MY gets it and leaves Kins off the ballot.
Evan Grant: I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
At least I get to see the Rangers when they play the Twins now.
He played all of the INF positions below average...
But better than what Miggy Cabrera is capable of I suppose.
But Cabrera hit significantly better than Young.
By any voter logic other than “leadership” Cabrera is obviously better than Young. Went to the playoffs… hit very well. And despite the alcohol stuff… I know the Latin players love him and look up to him.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Perhaps if Verlander played 1b, 3B, and SS on his days off
He could get Evan Grants first place vote…
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
He also hit in THREE lineup positions....
wait. that’s irrelevant.
Defending Big D Check it out
Twitter
"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
It's irrelevant that he hit in three different lineup spots.
Defending Big D Check it out
Twitter
"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
He's not going to be able to check his 'mentions'
for a week. Guy’s about to get bombarded.
"By MLB.TV, we can see J. Hamilton's homer, M. Young's clutch, and N. Feliz's explosive. All about Rangers things can be our interest" --South Korean Rangers fan
I'm a Web & TV Sports Producer at WFAA. Feel free to email me about anything.
That's when you have jumped the shark.
At least I get to see the Rangers when they play the Twins now.
I kind of liked the time he left Pedroia off the ballot the year he won...
(Simply because in my sports mind, fuck Pedroia!) But he caught hell for that and now this. He’s going to get a reputation.
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 1:27 PM CST up reply actions
He should have his damn vote taken away.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Which is what he wanted right?
He’s like an emotionally challenged child… as long as they’re paying attention to me…
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
.
as long as they’re paying attention to me Michael Young…
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 1:28 PM CST up reply actions
That's the point.
This is shock jock journalism here.
Grant wants to make sure his name is out there.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I've defended Evan Grant on a number of things in the past...
but this is exactly the kind of thing that would make me scream about how the particular writer shouldn’t get a vote. If you’re using the MVP vote for your own agenda, you shouldn’t get one.
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 1:29 PM CST up reply actions
Who was harmed by EG voting Face as MVP?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
EG and his rep.
and the rep of every other writer who has a vote.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
by AceJC on Nov 21, 2011 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Just EG's flagging credibility.
Along with the DMN’s.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
You and I...
and the MVP voting.
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
But Face finished with more 8th place votes than anybody else...it's
about where he should have finished.
I just don’t see the damage.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I try to avoid responding to trolls but
Of course you don’t.
At least I get to see the Rangers when they play the Twins now.
Again...
it’s not about Face. Stop thinking it’s about Face.
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 1:45 PM CST up reply actions
I think your reaction has more to do with you not liking Face than being
this disappointed in EG.
It’s really not that big of a deal and no harm was done.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
You seem profoundly disappointed.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I know...
I know. And I do hate Michael Young. If I could, I’d vote him Most Venereal Penis.
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
DON'T YOU GO THERE!!!
This was a nice, civil discussion of baseball up until now.
You.Just.Crossed.The.Line.Mr.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
I don't really hate Michael Young...
He seems like a nice family man.
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 2:18 PM CST up reply actions
You can't cross the line
You run the place
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Nov 21, 2011 2:30 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I just came home from court and started reading this thread
And this made me laugh out loud.
How does it only have 2 Recs?
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 21, 2011 5:29 PM CST up reply actions
And Judy
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
EG
and the fact that his vote helped Face finish in the Top 10.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
You were right...
until this, “and the fact that his vote helped Face finish in the Top 10.”
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
I guess I don't understand why you're so....hurt.
EG voted for his guy and while I don’t think Face should have been THE MVP, he more than deserved Top 10 status and several other voters gave him 2nd thru 6th place votes as well.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I'm not hurt, exactly...
I understand that you don’t think it is a big deal. That’s fine. The MVP voting is kind of a sham, anyway. I’m happy for all of the Rangers who got votes. I just have a long standing history of not liking it when a baseball writer uses the privilege of having a vote (MVP or HoF) to force an agenda and this time it’s a Rangers writer who I usually respect. That’s basically my issue. Evan Grant made a homer pick and I don’t like it when writers make homer picks, I suppose.
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not sure he did deserve top 10 status...
while he got 1 vote from places 1 throug 6, he was also left off 5 ballots.
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Dear Rangers, Make me forget about 2010.......
by matthewbschultz83 on Nov 21, 2011 2:56 PM CST up reply actions
So it really evened out...to leave Young off the
ballot is just as big a travesty (if not bigger) than voting him #1.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
In what world is leaving young off the ballot
“as big a travesty (if not bigger) than voting him #1”? A much better case can be made that there are enough players who had better seasons that Young that leaving him off the ballot isn’t indefensible at all. Voting him #1 is absolutely indefensible.
"An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come." *Victor Hugo*
Leaving him off the ballot entirely is
more indefensible.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
No it's not.
Off the ballot can mean he was 11th in your mind. That’s much more easily defended than voting him first.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
Wrong, the majority of your posts are indefensible.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
So if the writers strip EG of his voting abilites for HOF and MVP awards
no one was hurt?
(Can they do that, by the way? That would be awesome)
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
Baby Jesus just cancelled Thanksgiving dinner in heaven
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
by t ball on Nov 21, 2011 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Baseball.
His own credibility.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
sadly this image is too big to post unfortunately
The Hard Knock Life of an Internet Troll.
I very much enjoy that you have become a huge joke at this site. The days where you destroyed entire months worth of threads with Hank Blalock garbage is soooo far in the past.
No, he wants to protect his place in the lockerroom.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
by Aqua on Nov 21, 2011 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
There are nine people on Grant's ballot
that should rank ahead of Young. If there were 11 people on the ballot, there would be 10 that should rank ahead of Young.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
There are five Rangers.
RANGERS.
From Young’s own team.
"By MLB.TV, we can see J. Hamilton's homer, M. Young's clutch, and N. Feliz's explosive. All about Rangers things can be our interest" --South Korean Rangers fan
I'm a Web & TV Sports Producer at WFAA. Feel free to email me about anything.
It really mocks the vote
It’s like saying Tito was the greatest Jackson.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
by t ball on Nov 21, 2011 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It's like saying
Conor was the greatest Jackson.
"By MLB.TV, we can see J. Hamilton's homer, M. Young's clutch, and N. Feliz's explosive. All about Rangers things can be our interest" --South Korean Rangers fan
I'm a Web & TV Sports Producer at WFAA. Feel free to email me about anything.
It's like saying
Bo was the greatest Jackson.
Wait, I’m doing this wrong, aren’t I?
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
It's like saying
Turd was the greatest Ferguson.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
Jenkins
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
who is Turd Jenkins?
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
by t ball on Nov 21, 2011 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
and he couldn't even dance
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Good Lord
Thanks, Evan. I have lost the last shred of remaining faith I had in the human race. I now eagerly await the zombie apocalypse or the rise of the Terminators, whichever happens first.
"Those cocksuckers asking me if I thought we were gonna go up there and try to work his fuckin’ pitch count ‘cause he’s on three fuckin’ days rest…you know what I told those cocksuckers? He pitch ball, ball cross plate, we gonna knock the shit out of it."
- Wash
by RCCook on Nov 21, 2011 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, absolutely.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
Also one of the team's best hitters on the road and (along with Napoli) put the team
on his back when Beltre went down with an injury.
How long will it be before Jeff Sullivan throws a tantrum?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Can you really not see how embarrassing this is for EG?
MY wasn’t deserving of a 1st place vote.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
Young finished with more 8th place votes than anybody else....so ultimately, what
damage was done by EG?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Used his vote to stir the pot instead of pick the MVP...
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
Your dislike for Face has nothing to do with your opinion on this matter?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
saying Young doesn't deserve a 1st place MVP vote
is not equivalent to saying you dislike Young.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
EG can't be seen as logical or objective when placing his votes.
which puts the entire system at question and diminishes the award.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
Trolls gonna troll.
Now that he’s got a fuckbuddy on the national scene doing the same thing, do you REALLY think he’ll slow down now?
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
You mean...
How long will it be before everyone who writes about baseball throws a tantrum?
Not long. And they deserve to.
If a Tigers writer had voted Alex Avila as the MVP, you wouldn’t have had a problem with that?
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I wouldn't have cared.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I absolutely know that you do care about the MVP and its voting...
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 1:46 PM CST up reply actions
If Alex Avila had actually won the MVP, I might have cared but if
somebody from the Detroit Free Press that covered the team voted for him #1 and he ultimately finished 8th, I wouldn’t care.
Would you be this disappointed if EG had voted Kinz or Beltre as his #1?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Yes, I for one would
neither deserve a 1st place vote.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Equally disappointed?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Yes...
But, as we both know, quite clearly now, Evan Grant was never going to vote Ian Kinsler as his AL MVP because he’s not Michael Young. Neither is anyone else in the American League Michael Young.
That’s the problem, Josey. Not that Michael Young got a first place vote. That someone used their vote to push an agenda instead of attempting to select the best player in the American League. I would be just as annoyed if someone used their vote to protest a pitcher or a drunk winning by voting for Alex Avila.
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
nope.avi
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
x
jasoncollette jasoncollette
If Michael Young can get a 1st place vote, Michelle Bachmann has a chance after all
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
My internet sarcasm detector is broken.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Some jackwad will most certainly vote for her too.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
Heh
I like Jason. I just wish he’d stop beating me in our fantasy baseball league…
"Those cocksuckers asking me if I thought we were gonna go up there and try to work his fuckin’ pitch count ‘cause he’s on three fuckin’ days rest…you know what I told those cocksuckers? He pitch ball, ball cross plate, we gonna knock the shit out of it."
- Wash
They're gonna take his vote away.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Ryin A on Nov 21, 2011 2:06 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Tim Cowlishaw better watch his back
It seems pretty clear that Evan Grant is trying to break into the shock jock “Journalism” that is mid day ESPN shows. What an embarrassing ballot.
It's the Skip Bayless Model...
EG can make some cash by being stupid and making outlandish comments. Skip showed everyone in DFW, the way.
Seriously, whatever shred of credibility I still lent Evan Grant
just went into the toilet.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
He's trolling....
he just took a stick and smacked the hive.
Best reaction is to ignore him. He figured out a couple years ago that if he says or does something stupid his blog hits go up.
by Pocket Ninja on Nov 21, 2011 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The sad thing is...
Michael Young did have a very good season that most of us appreciated wholly. But this is just going to add to the rancor about Michael Young in online baseball community. Talk about stirring a pot.
And yes, when Grant was writing last winter during the Michael Young trade demand saga about the behind the scenes stuff that we hadn’t been privy to to try and help fill in some of the blanks that we were missing, I had hoped it was coming from a place of objectivity even though I disagreed with some of his conclusions. But it’s things like this that make it clear that when it comes to Michael Young, there is no objectivity with EG.
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Ghost...why is this "sad"?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Because Evan Grant didn't attempt to pick the AL MVP...
he just picked his guy.
This is about people being disappointed in Evan Grant, not Michael Young. Don’t make that mistake. This isn’t about bashing Michael Young.
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 12 recs
THIS
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
Yup.
The MVP award is already a joke, and these are the kinds of things that make it not funny anymore.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
And you're saying you would have had this same amount of venom towards
EG if he had voted for Beltre or Napoli as his MVP?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Young also received votes for 2nd thru 6th place.
EG flipping the bird at LSB does have comedic value.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
EG consequently is having the bird flipped at him nationally
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
yessir
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:09 PM CST up reply actions
Using your MVP vote to flip people the bird is the issue...
if a writer in another market did the same thing, I wouldn’t want them to have an MVP vote.
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
But there were also several Math Dorks with votes who didn't give
a damn about anything Young did that wasn’t related to WAR.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
But even so...
if Evan Grant is voting to continue a crusade against math dorks, that’s still a disservice to the vote itself and the players who were better candidates.
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 2:59 PM CST up reply actions
is it better to believe in stats that matter
or not to believe in stats at all and go with leadership as the reason you voted for someone as MVP
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:10 PM CST up reply actions
It's good to have a blend.
If the Red Sox have more leadership, they don’t shit in their pants this past September.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Youk, Papi, Pedroia--none of those guys have any leadership.
I think perhaps Boston wouldn’t have choked away their lead had they had better starting pitching.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
more leadership?
they have how many guys that have been with the team forever – youkilis, papi, pedroia, ’tek, beckett, etc
if they have better fucking players they dont STBF
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:19 PM CST up reply actions
It's sad for possibly two reasons
1) Grant is so mesmerized by Young that he cannot objectively evaluate baseball
or
2) He wasted his MVP vote deciding to make a statement.
Both are problems for a journalist covering baseball. I suspect No. 1, and that is clearly a problem.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
by t ball on Nov 21, 2011 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
And that statement is:
“Despite spending my entire professional career getting to the point where I actually have a HOF vote, I’m going to use all my accolades, influence, and talents to further a long-standing (and largely irrelevant) agenda. On a national stage, no less.”
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
didnt evan grant live with josh hamilton for a week.. then write a really shitty article about him
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Nov 21, 2011 1:45 PM CST up reply actions
Yeppers
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
Link?
"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11
by hornedfrogs45 on Nov 21, 2011 1:50 PM CST up reply actions
I'd be interested in seeing this as well... I don't think I read it.
I definitely don’t remember it.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
Eclou has mentioned it on this board several times.
I remember seeing it linked once. I’ll see if I can find it.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
when did Darth Snark release you from your frozen carbonite encasing?
Damn. miss a couple of days around here — miss a lot.
by elvis1isking on Nov 21, 2011 3:25 PM CST up reply actions
The demands for the duck had become so overwhelming
that he decided to nip the Rebel Alliance in the bud.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
YAY!
AFLAC is back :)
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
This way Darth Snark gets to hold onto his planetary systems
without any sniping from women wearing Danishes on their heads.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
There are so many ways I could answer this question.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
It seemed as if it'd be the most fun.
FUN, DAMNIT.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
*grabs popcorn*
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
I think some dude named Josh Garoon is Darth Snark
by lost in space on Nov 21, 2011 4:04 PM CST up reply actions
"Friend." Sure.
Do you really think that dude has any friends…?
I think the “friend” is probably that dude himself.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
Heh
ProfessorParks Jason Parks
I wonder what Evan Grant thinks about New Coke, The Godfather 3, and the last years of John Updike’s career?
"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11
by hornedfrogs45 on Nov 21, 2011 1:32 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
They were 2, 3, and 4 on his MVP ballot, right?
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
Hilarious
Michael Young doesn’t win MVP award. Demands trade.
I know most people hate Calcaterra but this was funny.
by Heebs on Nov 21, 2011 1:33 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
Who hates Calcaterra
There was some disdain that his sources in the Rangers sale were clearly on Monarch’s side, but beyond that, nothing I can think of.
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
I don't hate him...
but it helps me to read him if I think of him as satire of the snarky, cynical online baseball writer.
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 1:43 PM CST up reply actions
That's a lot of the reason I like him.
I might not always agree with him, but I appreciate where he comes from.
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
I don't think he deserved a vote.
I don’t think Hamilton did either or Beltre did either.
Kinsler and Young are the only two who should have received consideration IMO.
why?
He missed a huge chunk of time and was nowhere near MVP for the first half of the season.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
just thought he'd get a 10th place vote or two
surprised to see guys like David Robertson and Asdrubal Cabrera and NOT see Napoli.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
oh, sure a 10th place vote wouldn't bother me
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
does EG need to get in young's pants that badly?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
josey wales:
lets hear why FOTF deserved a 1st overall MVP vote.
in the american league, not for the team.
ready…………..go
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
This is the point where I leave the thread.
Defending Big D Check it out
Twitter
"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
Go whine to EG or your daddy
I’m just happy for Face.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
answer the question
its very basic.
i can craft an argument for every other player who recieved 2+ votes for 1st or second (verlander, ellsbury, miggy cabrera, granderson, bautista)
lets hear why he deserved even one vote
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
he won't answer because there is no answer
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
xx
lets hear why FOTF deserved a 1st overall MVP vote.
in the american league, not for the team.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
lol, on his twitter page:
iracane Rob Iracane
Congratulations to surprise American League MVP Jose Canseco!
45 minutes ago
I was right in the middle of a fucking reptile zoo! And somebody was giving booze to these god damn things! It wont be long now, before they tear us to shreds.
On a much smaller bullshit level
someone voted for Hamilton? REALLY? After THIS season?
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
Heisman runner up is always under consideration the next season
Maybe it is the carry over.
At least I get to see the Rangers when they play the Twins now.
I wish I could have bet on the fact that EG would vote MY #1
The odds for me would’ve been terrible though I guess.
What a freaking moron
OH HE MAD
In eyes of @Evan_P_Grant , 2nd in BA and 18th in OPS, with great D = not on the ballot, but 3rd in BA, 14th in OPS, and really bad D = #1
@Evan_P_Grant
Evan Grant
@thatguybsas Better checker yourself there.
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
by vfn on Nov 21, 2011 1:50 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I am so laughing right now.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
14 AL Teams, 2 votes per market
Evan gets to vote. Who is the other DFW voter?
Verlander was included on 27 of the 28 ballots.
It's baseball. You don't always get what you want, and you don't always want what you get. --Ed Coffin
Oh God... JFE? Galloway?
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
Hmm, maybe
I am not sure if the FWST guy has enough tenure to be awarded a vote.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
Probably Brett Vito.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
x
injuryexpert Will Carroll
Love how statheads say they don’t need to evangelize, then use advanced stats to call people stupid after award votes they say they ignore.
"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11
Will Carroll and Evan Grant are the same person in my head about 99% of the time.
This day is slightly marred by the fact that John Rhadigan sucks a flaming bag of shit. - LiamP
by cmkelly29 on Nov 21, 2011 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Only a troll of the trolliest quality
Would call themselves an injury expert without a medical degree or any kind of advanced degree in anatomy.
by thermhere on Nov 21, 2011 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Heh
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Nov 21, 2011 2:35 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
BUT HIS DAD WAS A DOCTOR!!!!!
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Ryin A on Nov 21, 2011 2:41 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Well, I'll be damn. I guess that makes me a tank mechanic.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
Emma Samms from GH had a nice set of cans.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
OK, I do have to thank Evan... this is just the thing I needed to help this afternoon go by.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
Yep...
Not one “pitchers shouldn’t win this award” subthread.
Well done, EG!
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
Here's all you need to know about EG.
They don’t know that Mike Napoli, who is having a career year, lockers next to Young and has followed him around like a puppy dog. No, they will see stats. They will see his WAR or his OPS and believe that others are more valuable. I can’t see how one player meant more to all facets of his team than Young.
"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11
all facets
except for, you know, those that can be measured in any way.
WHAT A LEADER!
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
Puppy dog bullshit.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
this ignores one very important thing
using his own retarded logic it means he has ZERO idea what magical, locker-adjacency effects any non-Ranger player had. Rumor has it Curtis Granderson gritty confidence did wonders on Ivan Nova.
by alon91 on Nov 21, 2011 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Obviously Young had the best intagable effect of any player in the league.
To suggest otherwise is just silly.
I never get how the "I WATCH HIM EVERY DAY" person does not see this flaw in their own argument.
So anyone who watches any other player every day just cancels out your argument, yeah?
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
OH.MY.GOD.
the level of Trolling has been stepped up a degree.
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
This was from a while ago.
He didn’t write it today.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
Yeah, but it still applies.
"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11
by hornedfrogs45 on Nov 21, 2011 2:32 PM CST up reply actions
well i don't read EG that often
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
I enjoy the fact that he's completely serious.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
THIS IS OUR BEAT WRITER
by dolphinpuncher on Nov 21, 2011 5:23 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Michael Young is trending in the US on Twitter.
"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11
Evan Grant should be the one trending.
At least I get to see the Rangers when they play the Twins now.
This is what baffles me
The top 5 all had at least 1 first place vote, and I get that. Cabrera received no 2nd place vote, Gonzo & Cano no 1st or 2nd place votes. However, MY received a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th place vote. Hrrmm?
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
EG's ballot
1. M. Young
2. M. Young
3. M. Young
4. M. Young
5. M. Young
6. M. Young
7. M. Young
8. M. Young
9. M. Young
10. J. Hamilton
by fightingengineer on Nov 21, 2011 2:21 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Write-in for Least Valuable Player on separate form.
1. CJ Wilson.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
4. Exercise
"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11
by hornedfrogs45 on Nov 21, 2011 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
5. Vegetables.
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Dear Rangers, Make me forget about 2010.......
by matthewbschultz83 on Nov 21, 2011 2:32 PM CST up reply actions
6. Logic and thoughtful analysis.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
7. Hair
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Nov 21, 2011 2:40 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
8. Diets
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
9. Dirk
i tell the truth; i lie a lot
by jonthefon on Nov 21, 2011 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
By the way
Do you know the people who run that Microbrewery over by Anchor Fish and Chips. What is it, Dangerous Minds Brewing?
I know folks who know him :D
But no, I am thinking we should invite him to our NE Home Brew club meeting at Pracna next month though to get to know him…you know…since we will be drinking the hell out of that beer if its good.
At least I get to see the Rangers when they play the Twins now.
Absolutely.
I’m excited to give it a try. The Surly law is big for this city. What/where is Pracna by the way? I don’t Home Brew myself but I help a guy in South Mpls brew every once in a while.
St. Anthony Main
Oldest running bar in Minnie. Some friends and I want to start a nano-brewery but finding the space is freakin hard.
At least I get to see the Rangers when they play the Twins now.
I do know where that is. I've been by it a few times.
Anything special about the products they offer?
Beer selection is top notch
Bree, head chef and GM, really really knows her stuff when it comes to the beer.
At least I get to see the Rangers when they play the Twins now.
NO!
That’s what EG WANTS. That is part of his endgame.
Let Face trend and EG get jealous and see his grand scheme begin to crumble.
Napoli, Kinsler, Beltre and Wilson are more valuable than MY.
But that’s not the point.
The point is that people like EG shouldn’t be voting for MVP anyway.
And by “people like Evan” I don’t mean ignoramuses.
Teixeira finished 19th
and inches closer to the HOF
by RangerMad on Nov 21, 2011 2:33 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
But what was his Game Score?
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
Does Evan Grant have a vote for the HOF?
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Yes
He voted for Raffy in January
It's baseball. You don't always get what you want, and you don't always want what you get. --Ed Coffin
He would
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Nov 21, 2011 2:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Meh, Raffy probably belongs in there.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
That's why I wouldn't vote for him.
That, and his dick doesn’t work anymore. What a joke, Raffy!
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
This is a travesty.
Not necessarily that he voted for Raffy (though I wouldn’t have), but that he has a vote for the only club that really matters.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
That would be good for Face
First ballot?
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Nov 21, 2011 2:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Robertson
Really? That might be more ridiculous than EG.
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Nov 21, 2011 2:37 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Brandon McCarthy now calling him out.
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Dear Rangers, Make me forget about 2010.......
by matthewbschultz83 on Nov 21, 2011 2:53 PM CST reply actions
x
BMcCarthy32 Brandon McCarthy
@ @Evan_P_Grant that makes no sense at all. It disqualifies a HUGE portion of players, based on their teammates. Makes no sense whatsoever.
When Evan said it plays a role if you’re on a winning team or not.
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Dear Rangers, Make me forget about 2010.......
by matthewbschultz83 on Nov 21, 2011 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Get him BMac!
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
McCarthy must not have dug Face so much when he was in Texas
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
BMac just doesn't like stupidity just like everyone here....oh wait.
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
No, because being upset with EG's methodology and blatant favoritism
Doesn’t necessarily mean you hate Michael Young. Or even dislike him.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
If I'm Young I would have been saying
“We traded this piece of shit for John Danks?”
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Young isn't as needlessly confrontational and douchetastic as you are.
Once again, nothing McCarthy has said or likely will say can reasonably be construed as an attack on Michael Young the player or Michael Young the person.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
by Aqua on Nov 21, 2011 3:17 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Young isn't getting bashed by anyone....I don't get JW's need to stick up for him
its EG thats getting blasted.
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
i guess so Heebs......I support Young too just not for the fucking MVP award
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
No, I think EG really fucked up when it came to covering CJ.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
i really think CJ gets a kick out of fucking w/ the media.
since most media members tend to not like the guy.
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
We could all say the sky is blue
and Josey would say it’s orange. It’s gone beyond being a contrarian. It’s who he is and what he does.
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Dear Rangers, Make me forget about 2010.......
by matthewbschultz83 on Nov 21, 2011 3:25 PM CST up reply actions
heh
I remember the first time it rained mud (spring semester of my freshman year). I called my mom freaking out. She laughed and hung up the phone.
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Dear Rangers, Make me forget about 2010.......
by matthewbschultz83 on Nov 21, 2011 4:25 PM CST up reply actions
Accented by the scent of feed lots being left open.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I don't think I've ever even been through Lubbock.
I’ve been in Amarillo… is it really that different?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Yes. Night and day, if you want to talk about West Texas towns.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
I think Amarillo is around 100K in population and
Lubbock is close to 250,000.
Lubbock has a major college and Amarillo has nothing of note.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Until Ryan Leaf moved in and tainted the place with drugs.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
Amarillo has a plant that builds and disassembles nucluer bombs
Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons.
And some of the biggest alcohol drinking sum bitches I went to college with
work there.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
I am far enough away if an incident happens
Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons.
Landscape and weather wise no
But Josey’s right on a Saturday night if the wind is blowing the wrong way, you can smell the feed lots.
Also I believe Lubbock is on the Llano Estacado, Amarillo is firmly in the Panhandle.
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Dear Rangers, Make me forget about 2010.......
by matthewbschultz83 on Nov 21, 2011 4:32 PM CST up reply actions
Summers in Lubbock are nice.
You can sleep with the windows open.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
it has AC.
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Dear Rangers, Make me forget about 2010.......
by matthewbschultz83 on Nov 21, 2011 4:35 PM CST up reply actions
^now.
Been in the last 5-8 years. Didn’t have it when I lived on campus either.
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Dear Rangers, Make me forget about 2010.......
by matthewbschultz83 on Nov 21, 2011 4:35 PM CST up reply actions
No they aren't
Summers in Lubbock are nice
Perseverance isn't just the willingness to work hard. It's that, plus the willingness to be stubborn about your own belief in yourself."
---Merlin Olsen
Yes sir
No humidty. Gets down to a nice 74-78 degrees at night. Not like DFW – still in the high 80s when the sun goes down with a side of swamp ass.
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Dear Rangers, Make me forget about 2010.......
by matthewbschultz83 on Nov 21, 2011 4:35 PM CST up reply actions
Very little humidity so 90-93
degrees isn’t bad and it gets down in the low 60s at night.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I remember the first time I saw a front come in carrying all that dirt.
The north horizon was a wall of red and orange and the south east was still bluish. Freaked me out. I thought Armageddon had begun.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
By the by
I would hope Michael Young would have a firmer grasp of the facts. We traded Danks FOR McCarthy.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
I don't think that's what's going on.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
RAGE RAGE RAGE
Evan_P_Grant Evan Grant
@
@BMcCarthy32 Brandon – until we change “value” to “outstanding” or statistically define value, “outstanding” and “value” are not the same.
"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11
Get off twitter and eat a cheeseburger, Ichabod.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
get off LSB and go hang out w/ EG
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
or blow him
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:15 PM CST up reply actions
its what we were all thinking.
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
I love Ichabod Crane
I can't stand people who are intolerant of other people's taste in music or people who like Nickelback.
by jonas m. on Nov 21, 2011 3:05 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
dead horse and all
but just how can Grant give extra consideration to Young based on intangibles when he presumably doesn’t know the “value” that other players have in that category?
doesn’t he have to compare apples-to-apples? maybe Verlander had awesome intangibles that would have put him over the top in his ballot?
q
Evan_P_Grant Evan Grant
@ @BMcCarthy32 My first question on WAR is always: Explain it. Second: Which WAR formula are you using?
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Dear Rangers, Make me forget about 2010.......
by matthewbschultz83 on Nov 21, 2011 3:02 PM CST reply actions
and it gets followed up with this gem
SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
if granderson isnt in the top 10 among al position players in war, i question war, not granderson.
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Dear Rangers, Make me forget about 2010.......
by matthewbschultz83 on Nov 21, 2011 3:03 PM CST up reply actions
Oh god, now Heyman is getting in on the trolling.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
Finishing tied for 11th makes all the difference, eh?
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
I know.
I’m assuming Heyman’s talking about bWAR, since that’s the framework under which Granderson finishes out of the top 10.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
It's like arguing that a party sucks because _________ isn't invited
And then he’s standing right behind you at that party.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
It's like cursing out loud that RGIII's passes keep getting tipped/dropped...
and then it lands in the arms of a receiver for a 87 yard touchdown.
(I wasn’t around for that awesome game so I thought I’d Baylor up this analogy to show my support.)
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 3:25 PM CST up reply actions
That was such a wonderful game.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Right.
Plus, it completely ignores one of WAR-critics’ favorite arguments: WAR has a level of uncertainty associated with it.
If you think that the bound on WAR is, say, ±15 percent, then (for bWAR) Granderson’s range is about 4.4-6.0, which could put him as high as 4th-7th.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
IT'S THE ONLY ARGUMENT I NEED, SHAWN
Evan_P_Grant Evan Grant
@
@chriskelley81 My formula: Production + versatility + increased offensive performance when team lost key players. = my 1st place vote.
"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11
guess we know why he gets a free pass around here
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:16 PM CST up reply actions
In all seriousness,
I’m starting to think this might be true.
"An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come." *Victor Hugo*
Versatility and very small sample performance
This was tailor-made for Michael Young.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
And yet it somehow didn't define Dustin Pedroia the year he won even good enough to make the ballot...
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 3:27 PM CST up reply actions
I don't understand how anyone thinks
that being useless at several positions is any better than being useless at a single position.
i tell the truth; i lie a lot
It's more about hitting in several different spots in the lineup...
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Dear Rangers, Make me forget about 2010.......
by matthewbschultz83 on Nov 21, 2011 3:28 PM CST up reply actions
The question here is whether whoever fills in for Young at DH (or 1st)
is better than whoever would’ve filled in for, say, Beltre, rather than Young, from an overall (defense + offense) perspective.
Given the options to play third after Young… at least in 2011, I give Young credit.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
The problem is where people think that such 'versatility'
is better than the value that someone who plays good defense at one position brings.
i tell the truth; i lie a lot
Sure.
The core of the problem is that when a player is good enough, he starts out at the most-demanding defensive position, defensively, and sticks at it for a long while. As a result, fans/media/et al. never get to observe that player’s “versatility,” since there’s no reason for that player to get moved to a less-demanding defensive position. I guess some people don’t take that into account when judging the player at one position.
Kinsler, for example, is almost certainly very versatile defensively (though his health is an obvious concern).
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
Exactly
Utility players are generally utility players because they’re not good enough to stick at one position full-time. Or in Young’s case, suck defensively.
"Those cocksuckers asking me if I thought we were gonna go up there and try to work his fuckin’ pitch count ‘cause he’s on three fuckin’ days rest…you know what I told those cocksuckers? He pitch ball, ball cross plate, we gonna knock the shit out of it."
- Wash
That's what is so amazing about the versatility argument.
It should actually be considered a negative. Elvis could play all 4 IF positions much better than MY. Does that mean he can rank higher in the versatility category?
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
Elvis really can't do that without making the team worse, though.
Because if he plays 3B, 2B, or 1B the SS position would be significantly weakened. Elvis isn’t capable of playing other positions without making the defense worse off (unless you consider him having played SS and half of 3B in 2009 and 2010 due to Young’s deficiencies).
Elvis clearly isn’t as versatile as Young. Young can play any position on the diamond without making any other position worse off. Even DH didn’t suffer because Napoli, Kinsler, or Beltre would slide right in and provide equal offensive output. Of course, if Napoli, Kinsler, or Beltre DH than they make a position on the diamond weaker by putting Young there.
Vote Young for versatility.
by Heebs on Nov 21, 2011 3:58 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Here's my counter...
Supposed we have another amazing defender come up (Profar?) and he moves to 1B to make room.
Then Beltre gets hurt and we trade for Votto, so Elvis moves to 3B.
So Elvis can now get 100 PAs at 3 positions.
I don’t think Elvis should be penalized as not being versatile because the other players around him aren’t as good. Conversely, I don’t think MY should be given an asset entry because the rest of the IF is that much better at defense than he is.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
You shouldn't get credit for being bad at defense.
Cuddyer gets that kind of credit too. It is absolute non-sense.
he would then be the MVP
per evan grant.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:17 PM CST up reply actions
so this is Blanco's fault then
that fucker.
by elvis1isking on Nov 21, 2011 3:33 PM CST up reply actions
credit, yes.
AL MVP votes? no.
TEAM MVP first place votes? no.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:16 PM CST up reply actions
Meh. I just don't care much about those things,
beyond what they tell us (sorry, Rob Neyer!) about the way in which people think through and act on them.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
yeah MVP doesnt really matter
in the grand scheme of things
this is true
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:21 PM CST up reply actions
I want to see the matrix where he ranked each candidate in each of these criteria
then calculated the scores based on some weights given to each criteria.
share that spreadsheet Evan. I’m sure you systematically went through that process.
Good Grief Evan
that’s fucking ridiculous. Even for you.
...we have answers.
Despite a 12.1% unadjusted walk rate over his 30.1 AFL innings, Miguel De Los Santos‘s dominant strikeout rate situates the Ranger left-hander convincingly above the AFL competition per SCOUT. The 23-year-old finished his 2011 season by piching 28.0 innings at Double-A Frisco, suggesting he could begin 2012 either at that level or at Triple-A.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
Throw. Strikes.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I know he started at AA, but did he finish there after going back to MB?
I don’t think he did.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
i think this has been my favorite LSB thread
In a long long time
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
by JBImaknee on Nov 21, 2011 3:48 PM CST via mobile reply actions
You're just happy Sky K. mentioned Harry as a player who should be ranked ahead of MY in MVP voting.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
YOU DON'T DARE TRADE A PLAYER WHO RECEIVED 1ST PLACE MVP VOTES, ALON.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
I can imagine Young dropping his "Fuck You" Hammer if he likes the place where he's traded,
knows he will get an opportunity to play in the field and gets an extension as well.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
What a fertile imagination you have!
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
by JDT217 on Nov 21, 2011 4:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Brag about something else...I haven't seen anything since the Caracas Country Club
so I know you must be dying to share something else with us.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I had a stiff dick all night last night, Josey. Remember what that's like?
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
by JDT217 on Nov 21, 2011 4:15 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Well.....hello, Coach Sandusky. You kinda fucked up that interview with Costas the other night.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
He really did.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
If anything
you could properly train “what not to do” from listening to that.
by lost in space on Nov 21, 2011 4:35 PM CST up reply actions
His lawyer should be sued for malpractice.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Agreed. Sandusky is delusional
And in the end you can’t force the client to do something they don’t want to do
How cliched was it when he talked about "horse play" and
“towels snapping”?
What a fucking monster.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
He's going to get his asshole split wide open here pretty soon.
Don’t you worry.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
I bet he commits suicide within the month.
by lost in space on Nov 21, 2011 5:21 PM CST up reply actions
I'm surprised that hasn't been ....arranged.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
God I hope not.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
If Young wants to win a championship he'll stay right where he is.
At his age I’d imagine it is his #1 priority. He’s already rich and in good with his teammates. I can’t imagine why he’d want to leave.
I don't think Young wants to leave.
I also don’t think JD has totally given up on trying to trade Young either.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
JD isn't trying to trade Young.
He’s trying to make the team better. If that includes trading Young, so be it. I’d be ok with him trading anyone if it made the team better.
I think it will be revisited this off-season.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
As it should.
The team should consider every option, including trading their 35-year old DH who is set to earn $32MM over the next two years.
JD doesn’t have some agenda to get rid of Young. You are making that all up in your head. His agenda is to make the team better.
well things might work out for everyone then
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
An extension.
Lolz.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
by Aqua on Nov 21, 2011 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That's the leverage JD gave Young when he didn't trade him last winter.
Young can say “Fuck you, cut me and pay me my money.”
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
JD didn't trade him because he knew the 2011 team would be stronger with Young
Than with whatever we could get in trade.
He was doing his job looking out of the best interest of the team.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
by Brad on Nov 21, 2011 4:17 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
JD supposedly spent most of last off-season trying to trade Young
but wasn’t successful.
I care more about the team being better in 2012 than I care about what happens to Young.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
so if they trade young, profar, perez, mendez, sardinas for votto
will you still be happy about the team?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:20 PM CST up reply actions
I wouldn't.
That’s too much.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
i dont think i would
but technically it would be a better team in 2011
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:24 PM CST up reply actions
err 2012
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:24 PM CST up reply actions
He had a trade all but done with the Rockies but pulled it off the table.
Then when Young demanded a trade, the Rockies were fine doing that same trade and JD said no. He knew he wouldn’t be able to replace Young’s production.
If JD wanted Young gone… he’d already be gone.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I'm not sure what JD's motivations were with Young last off-season.
I think (but don’t know this) he enjoyed the humiliation aspect (“We tried to trade you but nobody wanted that contract that I gave you”) of what happened and I think that’s one of the reasons Young was so pissed when he got to Surprise.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
so i am still waiting on the arguement
that FOTF deserved a 1st place vote in the MVP award.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:30 PM CST up reply actions
I told you to take it up with EG or Daddy.
I’m happy Young finished in the top 8.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
then why are you defending EG?
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
I'd have preferred a World Series MVP from him.
But it doesn’t always work out that way.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I'll take the heroic performance in Game 6 of the ALCS.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Since when is one game good enough from a guy who can do it...
Every day and every where. On the road, at home, Mr. Consistent.
You’re not disappointed with his two post seasons?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
one game
is a huge sample size match
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:35 PM CST up reply actions
Not at all.
He could have had better numbers but I never felt like he was choking.
He hit the ball well for most of the Tampa series but wasn’t rewarded. He sucked early in the ALCS but had big hits in Games 4 and 5 and was the hero in Game 6.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I've never said choke and I don't think that either.
But I’m disappointed that he’s struggled two straight post seasons. If you’re disappointed as well then you’re grading on too easy a curve. And sure as shit much easier of a curve than you grade other people LSB like.
I get it though… Vast Segments rip on Young and you have to get your revenge.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
*If you're NOT disappointed as well then you're grading...
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Vast Segments refuse to look at how
well he hit the ball early in the Tampa series (and wasn’t rewarded) and they scoff at his sac fly in Game 2.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
wait
why should we reward him for hitting well when there is no reward?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:59 PM CST up reply actions
And we won that game by 10 runs...
How is what he did that special?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
HE LED THE TEAM TO THE TEN RUN WIN
DONT ACT LIKE YOU DIDNT SEE IT
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:36 PM CST up reply actions
He did have two separate two run doubles in the same inning.
He definitely contributed a lot… but “hero” makes it seem like we don’t win without him.
We win that game regardless.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
so................................
you dont think he deserved a 1st place vote, right?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:33 PM CST up reply actions
I had no problem with Young getting one first place vote.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
just explain why
if you can
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:35 PM CST up reply actions
I think they were considering getting Cliff Lee and Beltre.
And if so… move Young’s salary.
Lee fell through so they just got Beltre and at that point there wasn’t any FA DH that would be near as valuable as Young.
So he kept him.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
But JD also supposedly tried to trade Young
back in February after he was called a lying sack of shit.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Not at all.
He vaguely explored things because Young demanded a trade… but he wasn’t going to give him away.
JD went through the motions to bide time until ST when he knew Young would show up and play.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Sure.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
its the truth
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
an extention
mind = fucking blown
steve phillips isnt a GM anymore josey.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:18 PM CST up reply actions
That is so damn funny...
how can you possibly justify voting for MY if you know even as much as my 11 year old about baseball?
Take MY’s balls out of your mouth. What a idiot.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
heh
TrippingOlney Not Buster Olney
UPON HEARING THAT FIVE WRITERS LEFT HIM OFF THEIR BALLOT ALTOGETHER, MICHAEL YOUNG DEMANDED THAT THEY BE TRADED.
Perseverance isn't just the willingness to work hard. It's that, plus the willingness to be stubborn about your own belief in yourself."
---Merlin Olsen
by Schultzy on Nov 21, 2011 4:03 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
It sucks that I've been busy at work all day.
So much entertainment in this thread.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
x
scottrlucas Scott Lucas
Jilted MVP candidate? 121 OPS+ (Young was 124), >100 PA at #3, #4, and #5 slots, >10 G at 3 defensive positions — Michael Cuddyer.
Perseverance isn't just the willingness to work hard. It's that, plus the willingness to be stubborn about your own belief in yourself."
---Merlin Olsen
HOW MANY RBIS DID HE HAVE THOUGH?
AND HOW MANY LEADERSHIPPINGS DID HE CONTRIBUTE?
i tell the truth; i lie a lot
He also pitched an inning too
WHAT ELSE DOES A MAN HAVE TO DO!
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Dear Rangers, Make me forget about 2010.......
by matthewbschultz83 on Nov 21, 2011 4:26 PM CST up reply actions
THAT IS VERSATILITY.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
MVP-MVP-MVP-MVP
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:33 PM CST up reply actions
BUT DID HE HAVE PLAYERS FOLLOWING HIM AROUND LIKE A PUPPY DOG?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:26 PM CST up reply actions
Liriano...
But that’s because Cuddyer kept a bag of bacon pieces in his pocket.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
SO HOW LONG UNTIL HE DEMANDS A TRADE
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:27 PM CST up reply actions
Cuddyer demanded free agency.
And got it!
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
WE CANT ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN
SO MUCH VERSATILITY
SO MUCH VALUE
SO MUCH LEADERSHIP
I AM PRETTY SURE IF HE WAS SIGNED BY THE RANGERS, THEY WOULD GO 162-0
MY GOD HE EVEN COULD BE A PITCHER IN THE PEN ON HIS OFF NIGHTS
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:30 PM CST up reply actions
It would be unfair to have a team with two MVPs on it.
/Det.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
I'm a leader, but I want to leave and quit on the team when I'm asked to help out the overall team value!
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
by AceJC on Nov 21, 2011 4:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
HELPING OUT ON TEAM VALUE
MIN THOUGHT SO MUCH OF CUDDYER THAT HE IS NOW A FREE AGENT. HE HAD SO MUCH VALUE THAT THEY DIDNT EVEN TRY TO RESIGN HIM
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:32 PM CST up reply actions
Ty Wiggington must be the greatest baseball player to ever live.
And to think he just got traded from Colorado for a PTBNL
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
ITS CALLED INVESTING IN AN UNDERVALUED ASSET ACE
IF ONLY OUR GM WAS ABLE TO DO IT, WE WOULD HAVE A BETTER TEAM.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:36 PM CST up reply actions
Ben Zobrist in 2009
.297 / .405 / .543 / .948 in 501 ABs
Played every infield and outfield position.
75% of his at bats came in the 3-5 spots in the order.
Nothing higher than a sixth place vote for MVP.
MVP-MVP-MVP-MVP
MAYBE THE ROCKIES CAN GET HIM FOR A PTBNL NOW!
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:41 PM CST up reply actions
Don't be dumb Scott Lucas
You forgot the all-important “+ increased offensive performance when team lost key players” component of this highly scientific equation. That obviously is one of the three most important things an MVP has to do!!!!1
Show me splits when Joe Mauer was in/out and then we’ll talk.
STOP BLOWING MY MIND WITH THIS AMAZING ANALYSIS
WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? EVAN GRANT?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:38 PM CST up reply actions
So Kinsler finished 11th.
And I wouldn’t be surprised if whoever else had a DFW area vote didn’t give him any like Grant.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
The 5th place vote
was probably either Law or Posnanski.
"By MLB.TV, we can see J. Hamilton's homer, M. Young's clutch, and N. Feliz's explosive. All about Rangers things can be our interest" --South Korean Rangers fan
I'm a Web & TV Sports Producer at WFAA. Feel free to email me about anything.
I don't think Law had an AL MVP vote.
I think he only had NL Cy Young.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Wow. Wow.
Evan_P_Grant Evan Grant
My column on Young vote. (Per paper policy it’s behind paywall): dallasne.ws/t2cv3D
"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11
Welp. Someone pass along the highlights, please?
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
hahahahahhahahahahaha
hahahahahhahahahahhahahahhahaha
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:41 PM CST up reply actions
OH YOU BEEN BAITIN'.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
DMN/EG fail
showed up as the first search result
On Monday afternoon, the Baseball Writers Association of America named Justin Verlander the American League’s Most Valuable Player of 2011.
An excellent choice.
Just not mine.
Had the award been for the most statistically dominating season by a player, I’d have voted Verlander No. 1 and his teammate, Miguel Cabrera, No. 2. Statistically, their seasons were superior to other players. Every fifth day, Verlander all but guaranteed the Tigers a win and it had a residual effect on the rest of the pitching staff, too. Every day, Miguel Cabrera put teeth in the middle of the Tigers lineup.
After that, there was a cast of dozens who put up great offensive numbers, too.
If I wanted to, I’d simply look at the Wins Above Replacement numbers (WAR), all the current rage in determining a player’s worth (although there is no standardized formula for WAR), and take the top 10 choices to fill out my ballot. Of course, you’d have to first determine which WAR formula you want to use, since it is a non-standardized formula. Given the WAR formula used by Baseball Reference.com, Verlander and Jose Bautista tied for the AL’s most WAR-y player. The formula used at Fangraphs.com has Jacoby Ellsbury as your AL leader. When somebody can quickly explain the complexities of the concept and standardize the WAR formula, I’ll spend more time with it.
In the meantime, I’ll go with what my eyes told me.
My eyes told me Michael Young meant more to the Texas Rangers and their success than any player in the American League.
Yes, his batting average (.338) and RBIs (106), both ranked in the top five in the AL. And, yes, simply taking batting average and RBIs are hardly the basis for an MVP vote. Based on average and RBIs alone, Cabrera or Ellsbury or Bautista would have been just as good – no, better – choices.
Where Young separated himself, in my mind, is in the things you maybe can’t pick up from the WAR projections. And that’s all WAR is – is a projection. And if we’ve learned anything from this year, it’s that projections don’t win games – performance does. Young gave the Rangers multiple contributions in multiple key spots in the lineup and by playing multiple positions when other key members of the starting lineup were hurt or struggling.
When reigning MVP Josh Hamilton went down for six weeks just 10 days into the season, Young moved into the No. 3 spot in the lineup. That he hit .331 for those six weeks is not insignificant, given that he lost the protection provided by Hamilton. That it was 43 points higher than anybody else on the team tells you this: It was Young who kept the Rangers’ offense afloat.
It should be noted that was a theme that carried throughout the season. When somebody went down, Young stepped up. While both Hamilton and Nelson Cruz were out in May, Young outhit his teammates by 30 points to keep the offense treading water. When Adrian Beltre went down for six weeks with a hamstring injury, Young (.354) outhit the rest of his teammates by 20 points.
When it came time for clutch situations, no Ranger delivered more regularly than Young. His .377 average with runners in scoring position ranked third in the AL behind the Detroit tandem of Victor Martinez (.394) and Cabrera (.377).
But even RISP numbers can be misleading. How many of those hits with hitters in scoring position came when it mattered? In the case of Young, quite a few. In "close-and-late situations," (defined as coming in the seventh inning or later with the batting team up by a run, tied or with the tying runs on-base or on-deck), Young led the AL at .406 and was third in on-base-plus slugging in those situations at 1.067.
When the Rangers turned to Young in the field, sure there was a defensive downgrade from those he replaced, but he made up for it with offensive production. Because of it, the Rangers didn’t suffer. Young started 90 games in the field for the likes of Mitch Moreland, Ian Kinsler and Beltre. The Rangers went 52-38 in those games (.578).
How teams deal with adversity often determines how they finish. The Rangers dealt with adversity as well, if not better, than any team in the AL in 2011. They did it, in large part, because every time their ship threatened to take on water, Michael Young led the effort to bail them out.
Verlander and Cabrera formed the backbone of an impressive 95-win team. The Rangers, despite their myriad of injuries won one more, which made all the difference in the world when it came time to determine playoff position.
Young’s position on the field and in the order changed constantly over the course of the season because of the Rangers’ needs. His performance did not. He hit .340 or better for each of the infield positions he played. He hit .319 or better for each of the three spots in the order.
Because of that consistent performance in a variety of roles, he edged out a strong field of MVP candidates on one ballot.
tl;dr – FOTF = clutch, plays lots of positions, replaced plaers who got hurt and i want to blow him /EG
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
So really...
what Evan Grant is saying is, his eyes were American League MVP.
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 4:55 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
EG just told WAR "fuck you."
Math Dorks everywhere are now openly weeping.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 21, 2011 4:55 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Why would they be openly weeping?
Like anyone gives a fuck what anyone else says…
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I'm curious if I'm a math dork.
I didn’t even graduate from high school.
I never took a single trig or calculus class ever. No statistics either.
Only math I know comes from working out in the world.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I am not.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Dry eyes, here. I am apparently not a math dork, either. Sigh.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
My grandfather gave me a slide rule, once; maybe I can find it.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
I don't actually know what a slide rule looks like.
And I refuse to Google it because I like saying that.
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
I was going to post an image but decided to let you bask in this a bit more.
But the slide rule is analog elegance to the clumsy blaster of the calculator.
Do you think Joey Bats should have been MVP although his Toronto
Blue Jays sucked the same mediocre dick they’ve been sucking for 12 years?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
That has nothing to do with WAR.
Do you think Joey Bats was the best offensive player this year?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Definitely one of them but his team was out of contention (again)
by July 4. That’s a deal-breaker when it comes to winning MVP.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
By your measure...
But the winning team part has nothing to do with “WAR” or “Math Dorks”.
Plenty of people have supported MVP candidates on mediocre teams before the SABR rage went wild.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
this is horrible logic
on july 4th the cardinals were 46-40
on july 4th the blue jays were 42-44
on july 4th the tigers were 45-51
on july 4th the red sox were 49-35
on july 4th the rangers were 45-41
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 5:11 PM CST up reply actions
The Jays trailed the Yankees by 9.5 games on July 4
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
That's nothing.
Cardinals and Rays were that far out on September 1st. ;)
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
so now we use the divison against them?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 5:17 PM CST up reply actions
I'm using 81-81 against him.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
so their record on july 4 doesnt matter now?
i thought that their record on 7/4 was what was a dealbreaker
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 5:19 PM CST up reply actions
His team not only finished 81-81 but they were
also out of contention on July 4 (again).
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
The next highest OPS on the 2011 Toronto Blue Jays
was Yunel Escobar’s .782 OPS/111 OPS+/116 wRC+
The Blue Jays allowed 4.7 runs per game, 10th in the American League.
I wonder why they won only 81 games…
i tell the truth; i lie a lot
clearly because of bautista
if he was as good of a leader he would have had the whole team hitting as well as he did
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 5:25 PM CST up reply actions
A good leader gets the rest of the team to hit BETTER than him.
That’s the secret.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Brett Lawrie
/MonkeyEpoxy
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
How many times have the BJs won between 80-85 games in the last 12 years?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
More important consideration
would be how many times the Jays have managed that many wins with a squad as weak as they had this past year. Bautista was a large part of the reason they managed 81 wins rather than the 65-odd they were being predicted at season start. Unless of course you feel a squad that gave major playing time to such luminaries as Corey Patterson, Jo-jo Reyes, Jayson Nix, Mike McCoy, Juan Rivera, Aaron Hill, etc…
The Jays pretty much gutted their team the past two years (Halladay, Marcum, Downs, Wells, Rios, Scutaro, etc…) and still managed .500 ball in the AL East running out a team primarily consisting of kids and veteran scrubs.
Do you depend on WAR to tell you who the MVP is?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
It all goes in The Blender.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
by Aqua on Nov 21, 2011 5:00 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
This should have more than 2 recs.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Depend?
No… but I do let it give me a point of reference on how players did compared as it relates to other players and that it factors positional adjustment.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
As an example... fWAR said Ellsbury led in WAR this year.
I’d go Bautista because the offensive numbers are more reliable than the defensive ones.
If I were the sort that cared whether or not winning mattered… I’d go Miggy because he was just behind Joey Bats in killing the ball this year.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I think Granderson got Sandusky'd which is something that
is going to throw The Committee That Points Out Racism for a loop.
It’s very simple…he had a great year for the best team in the AL and played a critical position. He hit equally well on the road and at home.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Granderson was really good.
But he didn’t hit nearly was well as Joey Bats or Miggy. Both of those guys were around .450 OBP… and that’s kinda good.
Him being a CF helps off set that… but fuck him. He’s a Yankee. Even if he were a great defender by metrics I’d still vote for Joey Bats or Miggy for the same reason I take them over Ellsbury.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Soooo....discrimination only because he played for the Yankees.
That’s dumbass.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
That's a joke.
I just wanted to throw that in there. It didn’t have anything to do with it.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
You clearly favor Young because he's a Ranger and he has history with a general manager you despise
THAT’S dumbass.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
I've been extraordinarily nice to JD the last two years.
He’s adapted to being Nolan Ryan’s underling very well.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Dude, I gave him an A- and a B+ the last two years.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
That's cool...
Tossing in “Nolan Ryan’s underling” was just so classic you, though.
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 5:27 PM CST up reply actions
Gotta throw inside to keep the hitters honest.
Nolan would approve.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
This represents about 40% of my comments re: Young to you.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
underling
lol
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 5:19 PM CST up reply actions
learn to read moron
Even if he were a great defender by metrics I’d still vote for Joey Bats or Miggy for the same reason I take them over Ellsbury.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 5:13 PM CST up reply actions
Well I'm a dork...
But am I a MATH dork… that’s the question.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
EG just told that to any sensible baseball fan
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
Was this you?
Perseverance isn't just the willingness to work hard. It's that, plus the willingness to be stubborn about your own belief in yourself."
---Merlin Olsen
by Schultzy on Nov 21, 2011 5:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
i am confused
as to why he hates WAR…
WAR basically looks at a player and asks the question, "If this player got injured and their team had to replace them with a minor leaguer or someone from their bench, how much value would the team be losing?"
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 5:00 PM CST up reply actions
sometimes when I laugh real hard
my eyes tear up, yeah.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
This article is a sabernightmare.
Protection, small sample sizes, intangibles, numerous assumptions about causation, and batting average meaning one player “kept the [] offense afloat.”
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
WAR isnt a performance based stat? huh?
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Nov 21, 2011 4:57 PM CST up reply actions
Fuck it he's rolling.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
Honestly, how can you use your eyes if you cover a certain team?
At that point, it’s just bias. No way he could have used his eyes to determine whether another team’s player “meant more” by that approach.
So, to recap: Evan Grant thinks the WAR framework is very complex.
He hasn’t bothered to read several of the more reader-friendly explanations of it that people have written.
That doesn’t stop him from opining on it, however, despite (and perhaps because of) the fact that he provides strong evidence that he doesn’t understand it.
In lieu of WAR, Grant uses a player’s batting average during periods in which key teammates are injured; batting average with RISP; batting average and OPS in “close-and-late” situations; and batting average at different lineup slots and positions as his stats of choice. Oh, and winning percentage when the player is in the field, rather than at DH. (Interesting that he chooses not to observe the fact that the Rangers’ overall winning percentage was .593 — and that in the 72 games that complement the 90 he cites, the Rangers’ winning percentage was .611)
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
by Snark on Nov 21, 2011 5:04 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
WHY SHOULD IT BE STANDARDIZED?!
Why can’t we disagree on things?!
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
Dear Lord...
My eyes told me Michael Young meant more to the Texas Rangers and their success than any player in the American League.
Do you have any idea what kind of team the Rangers would have been with Verlander, or MIggy, or Ellsbury????
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
NO BETTER THAN THIS RANGERS TEAM WITH VERLANDER
OBVIOUSLY.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:50 PM CST up reply actions
err young*
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 4:51 PM CST up reply actions
That's the biggest problem with his article.
In the phrase “Most Valuable Player,” he concentrates on his definition of value. Because he sees the Rangers every day and is in that clubhouse, he thinks he has a good approximation of Young’s value, but “Most” requires a comparison. A comparison he doesn’t even try to do.
His equation is more “Young = extremely valuable while the Rangers are good = MVP of the league!”
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
by Aqua on Nov 21, 2011 4:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
A follow-up question: how many baseball games that didn't involve the Rangers
did Evan Grant watch from start to finish in 2011?
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
I'd love to know the answer to this question.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Jeff Wilson's ballot
My ballot: 1. Jacoby Ellsbury, CF, Boston Red Sox; 2. Curtis Granderson, CF, New York Yankees; 3. Michael Young, Utility, Texas Rangers; 4. Justin Verlander, SP, Detroit Tigers; 5. Jose Bautista, 3B/RF, Toronto Blue Jays; 6. Miguel Cabrera, 1B, Detroit Tigers; 7. Adrian Gonzalez, 1B, Boston Red Sox; 8. Robinson Cano, 2B, New York Yankees; 9. Asdrubal Cabrera, SS, Cleveland Indians; 10. Paul Konerko, 1B, Chicago White Sox.
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Dear Rangers, Make me forget about 2010.......
by matthewbschultz83 on Nov 21, 2011 4:57 PM CST reply actions
Also no Kinsler vote.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Asdrubal LOL WUT
"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11
by hornedfrogs45 on Nov 21, 2011 4:57 PM CST up reply actions
Come on, Wilson.
Michael Young third over Verlander, Bautista, and Cabrera?
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
LOL!
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
TWO CABRERAS!
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Dear Rangers, Make me forget about 2010.......
by matthewbschultz83 on Nov 21, 2011 4:58 PM CST up reply actions
I can buy Young over Asdrubal Cabrera
But not Miguel Cabrera.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
I was kidding.
Asdrubal Cabrera should not have gotten a top 10 vote.
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Dear Rangers, Make me forget about 2010.......
by matthewbschultz83 on Nov 21, 2011 5:00 PM CST up reply actions
What I've learned today:
Michael Young is very valuable.
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 5:00 PM CST up reply actions
BUT
less valuable than cuddyer.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 5:03 PM CST up reply actions
cuddyer also gives you an option to p ut him on the mound
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 5:03 PM CST up reply actions
So it should be pretty easy to unload him and that contract to another team?
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
if you arent good enough to play at one position
how are you REALLY eligible for an award?
that is much of my issue w/ reggie bush winning heisman. HE WASNT EVEN GOOD ENOUGH TO GET THE HUGE MAJORITY OF TOUCHES THAT YEAR.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 5:02 PM CST up reply actions
well
not good enough to atually even have a position on your own guys MVP ballot (utility? lol)
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 5:02 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think that should be determinative.
You can be good enough in shorter bits to overcome things.
Like if a guy only got 200 PAs but hit 200 HRs, you wouldn’t say that he can’t be MVP because he wasn’t a full-time player.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
something that makes you ineligible? no.
something that should really be considered as a negative to your candidacy? yes.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 5:07 PM CST up reply actions
Asdrubal Cabrera, eh?
Did he only watch baseball until the ASB?
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Finally read all the comments
this has been one pritttay funny thread…i feel bad for Evan getting so much flak on twitter, but come on
Evan knew exactly what he was doing.
He was fully prepared and anticipating this.
This circulates his name on a national level… do not feel bad for him at all.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Vast Segments came at him with their torches lit.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
He lit the torches intentionally.
He wanted this reaction.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Meh, can't blame him.
If this gets him further in Face’s (or others, but mainly Face) good graces, who cares about a 12hr Internet shitstorm?
by LiamP on Nov 21, 2011 5:14 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Oh me either.
All a part of the game, playa.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I GOT DA FORUMZ
U GOT DA MVP VOTE
S’ALL IN THE GAME THO RITE?
by LiamP on Nov 21, 2011 5:20 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
maybe he will leave!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 5:07 PM CST up reply actions
no, fuck that guy.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 5:07 PM CST up reply actions
The flack is well deserved.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
I wish Evan would come discuss his decision here
Perseverance isn't just the willingness to work hard. It's that, plus the willingness to be stubborn about your own belief in yourself."
---Merlin Olsen
Why?
Vast Segments are out of control on this issue and can’t be rational.
For gawds sake, he said “Fuck You” to WAR.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
You think Evan was rational?
He talks about using his “eyes” and points out a bunch of statistics.
Evan is all about numbers… just the ones that make sense to him. Which is fine… but disagrees with his “eyes” narrative.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
You think Joe Poz was rational when he was ripping on Young?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
He didn't rip on Young.
He ripped on the national media and how they cover him.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I was trying to find the post early in your LSB career where you promised to never reply to Wales again when I stumbled upon this gem
Teenage boys are much easier than teenage girls.
by matchst1ck on Mar 22, 2011 7:56 PM PDT
I believe I was referring to parenting.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Pic is blocked at work.
What is it?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
One day you'll understand that it isn't the subject matter that determines rationality
It is the approach.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
learn to read:
*Maybe this is bothering me because the Michael Young deification is driving me up the wall. Young has been a good player in his career. Not a great player. Not close to a great player. But a good player. A solid player. He won a batting title. He’s a .300 hitter who doesn’t walk, has played several positions, but none of them especially well, he has shown a little pop in large part because he has had the good fortune to play his entire career in a great hitters’ ballpark. He gets a lot of points for leadership, and he might indeed be a Patton-like leader in the clubhouse, but I also know that Young has twice complained loudly and publicly when the Rangers moved his position. His career WAR, at this moment anyway, is almost exactly the same as Dave Henderson’s and Melvin Mora’s. His career 106 OPS+ is the same as those of Don Money and Bill Doran and David DeJesus. All of this seems to place him firmly in the "good but not close to great" column.
And yet, all postseason I’ve been hearing Michael Young hosannas. Great player. Classy player. Fantastic player. Leader. Role model. Hero. Even this would be OK if Michael Young were having a great October. But at last check he was hitting .207 in the postseason. I don’t get it.
Meanwhile, there actually IS an underrated guy on the Texas team that the announcers could be celebrating — Ian Kinsler. He has been an excellent defensive second baseman, and over his career he gets on base more than Young, he hits with more power than Young, he’s a much better base stealer than Young, and he’s a better base runner than Young. Kinsler, too, takes big advantage of his home ballpark, but he’s a better player than Michael Young and, as is the case for truly underrated players, nobody in the television booth seems to know it.
The reason for this, I regret to admit, is batting average. Michael Young has a career .300 average, Kinsler is way down there at .275. And that is that. A month or so ago — and I wasn’t the first to say this — I wrote that maybe batting average was finally losing its unique hold on the American psyche, because Curtis Granderson was a serious MVP candidate even though he was hitting in the .260s. After almost a month of watching the playoffs on television, I take it all back. The postseason announcers — pretty much to a man — still refer to batting average like it’s the most perfect of all statistics. I guess batting average, like the Terminator, is impossible to kill.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 5:15 PM CST up reply actions
The point is to generate traffic to DMN and see if they can get people to pay to read his article.
How does him coming here help that?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
It doesn't
I just want the hilarity of the thread to continue
Perseverance isn't just the willingness to work hard. It's that, plus the willingness to be stubborn about your own belief in yourself."
---Merlin Olsen
After last year
I really don’t think we’ll ever see Evan here again unless he creates a sock puppet.
by lost in space on Nov 21, 2011 5:17 PM CST up reply actions
He'll never create a sock puppet which lasts.
If he did, he’d just eat it.
i tell the truth; i lie a lot
Scroll down.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
True story
just googled Evan Grant, and a picture of Colin Cowherd showed up
by JustinH89 on Nov 21, 2011 5:10 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
One thing I don't understand
is how Evan cites how valuable MY is to the clubhouse, that seems like his biggest argument, and it’s unfair to me because he doesn’t know how Verlander, et al. are in their respective clubhouses, and how “valuable” they are to that aspect of the team and all.
by JustinH89 on Nov 21, 2011 5:12 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
OR DOES HE?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 5:16 PM CST up reply actions
I wonder how long before Evan is writing for GasLampBall.com...
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I would recommend buying "fireEvanGrant.com" and redirecting it here.
But he would love that.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
by Aqua on Nov 21, 2011 5:15 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe if it redirected to a big and tall store.
"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11
by hornedfrogs45 on Nov 21, 2011 5:16 PM CST up reply actions
My vote
Folks, I’m sorry that this thread seems to have developed into a referendum on my credibility. It was never my intention.It was never my intention to drive traffic or put myself on the national table. But I do feel it is always important for us as writers to make our votes public. I do this because if people want to disagree, I think they should have the ability to voice their opinions. Unfortunately, on the internet, it seems to always devolve into name-calling, snarky insults and so forth. I wish it was more civil because there are lots of good points that people make and lots of good debate.
I just voted what I thought based on no particular set of criteria, because there is no certain particular criteria for MVP. We are supposed to consider all players, though how do you compare pitchers and position players? How do you factor in the versatility of a player stepping into the void every time another high-profile went down? How do you factor moving about the run-producing spots out of pure need? Is it an out-of-the-box vote? Sure. Is it perhaps influenced by seeing Young every day and therefore feeling I’m seeing something “more?” Perhaps.
When it comes down to it, I thought Michael meant more to this team’s success than any player meant to any other team. That was my personal opinion and my personal vote. If in the future, you’d prefer we not make our votes public or explain our votes, then I’ll bring it up with my bosses.
I just don’t get all the anger that MVP voting tends to roil up. You vote for who you think is most deserving and think that all 10 players are being honored to be named on the ballot. That’s the way I look at it. If you disagree, that’s certainly your prerogative. If you want to take shots at me, hey, that’s fine. If you want to tune me out, that’s your right, too.
All I know is I go to work every day trying to bring you the most in-depth information I can about the Rangers. If you appreciate it, thanks. If you don’t, I’ll continue to work to win that appreciation.
by Evan Grant on Nov 21, 2011 5:20 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
I wondered how long this would take...
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
Stand tall, EG.
Fuck ‘em if they can’t take a joke or a first place vote for Face in a year that he played this well.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
the year he played this well
was also the year he was, statistically, he was the fifth best hitter on the team per wOBA+
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 5:23 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Shake that tree!!
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
is it not true?
or do you believe BA is the only stat that matters?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 5:26 PM CST up reply actions
xx
Folks, I’m sorry that this thread seems to have developed into a referendum on my credibility
you lost what little you had after this vote.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 5:22 PM CST up reply actions
I'm more disappointed...
That Ian Kinsler finished 11th, but neither you or Jeff Wilson voted for him.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Yeah...
I wanted him to beat out Pedroia for once.
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 5:23 PM CST up reply actions
It just makes me sad that Ian isn't given the love in his own town.
And it takes others to for him to get votes.
I’m sure the body language and pop ups have something to do with it… but Ian was awesome this year.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
But...
is Ian Kinsler just good or is Ian Kinsler good because Michael Young leads him?
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 5:28 PM CST up reply actions
clearly because he has someone to follow around like a puppy dog
he actually lockers on the other side of michael young, in case you didnt know.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 5:28 PM CST up reply actions
MY actually has a confessional booth near the hot tub
Where Ian Kinsler pleads for benedictions and begs forgiveness for his sinful pop-ups
by dolphinpuncher on Nov 21, 2011 5:37 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I disagree based mostly on versatility being a huge factor and the inability to determine that value across the league.
But rec anyways for making your vote public, and posting here.
I'll be honest, Evan: I don't care much about your MVP vote.
But you know what? If you’d written this in your column instead of what you wrote by way of justification, it would’ve been a far, far better piece.
Leave out the shots at WAR. Leave out the selective use of clutch stats. Leave out the references to “protection,” and all the rest of the statistical stuff that only undermines your argument’s logic.
Just tell it like it is:
You don’t have any firm or fixed criteria for MVP voting, statistical or otherwise; you don’t think that MVP voting demands any firm or fixed criteria, for that matter; you really appreciate Michael Young as a player and person; you watch his team more than any other; and you base your vote on what your eyes and gut tell you.
I’d have enjoyed and respected that column a lot more.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
by Snark on Nov 21, 2011 5:23 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
No...take shots at WAR and don't be led around the nose by it to tell you which
players should get MVP.
WAR doesn’t tell you how important it was to give Kinz that time off 2B or how important it was for Young to play as well as he did when Beltre was gone or how he had 10 hits in that late August series against the Angels or how he was one of the few hitters who did well when Josh was out or how much versatility he helped give his manager when it came to making out the line-up or how this team always seemed to be in lock-step with their manager (because Face had Wash’s back) or how valuable it was to learn how to not only play DH but 1B as well.
Most of us saw how much reverence Young’s teammates have for him during that Fox Pre-game show….WAR doesn’t capture that either but it’s still valuable.
WAR is information but it is not gospel.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 21, 2011 5:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I can easily disagree with a first place MVP vote for him
without WAR. It’s a strawman argument to say that’s the only reason people don’t like it.
i think you misunderstand WAR
Wins Above Replacement (WAR) is an attempt by the sabermetric community to summarize a player’s total contributions to their team in one statistic. You should always use more than one metric at a time when evaluating players, but WAR is pretty darn all-inclusive and provides a handy reference point. WAR basically looks at a player and asks the question, "If this player got injured and their team had to replace them with a minor leaguer or someone from their bench, how much value would the team be losing?" This value is expressed in a wins format, so we could say that Player X is worth 6.3 wins to their team while Player Y is only worth 3.5 wins.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 5:33 PM CST up reply actions
To be fair...
That still doesn’t address Josey’s intangible comments. Those aren’t easily quantified… but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
I don’t think you factor them TOO heavily in actual roster construction… I think you look for guys that work hard and aren’t sociopaths… but that’s just part of the package.
For awards and such though… it’s purely a judgement call on how much you want to consider or measure intangibles.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Which is why analytical sorts don't count them.
Because that’s impossible.
But I do understand when others do factor them in.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
The argument is that Evan likely only gave Young credit for intangibles
since he presumably did not know much about intangibles of most non-Rangers.
I respect considering non-stats in these votes. I roll my eyes when someone chooses to do it so unevenly.
Didn't this same argument happen last year
when the Pittsburgh writer put Neil Walker and Jose Tabata too high, citing intangibles while ignoring the fact that the other rookies could’ve brought the same thing?
Some hometown writers just think there’s something unique about THEIR leaders.
Would really be interested in Josey's opinion on how you rank intangibles
Is being a team leader better than say taking a new player to the team under your wing and helping them settle in the city (Bautista), or getting really involved with the city and the fanbase (Granderson). Is there a scaling effect based on players total taken under wing, quality of advice given, jokes, taste in beer, motivational technique? How on earth can you ever correctly scale such a thing given you’ll only ever spend a fleeting time with any number of players.
More importantly, how do you isolate such a stat to a per player basis, you’d need to develop an IIS (Intangibles independent Staff) rating for each player to discount management influence, then how do you judge the effects of players on each other, is Young’s leadership effected positively or negatively by the rookies willingness to wear fancy dress for team building?
I’m fascinated for Josey’s input.
Intangible value of Young?
Check out the resiliency of the team.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
But how do you isolate that from others
surely that resiliency could be equally attributed to any of a number of things, or are you implying that the Rangers as a whole (minus Young) all have a 0 rating for intangibles. Surely that speaks to a flaw in management if your GM has assembled a team otherwise neutral in terms of intangibles, aren’t they putting all their intangible eggs in one basket by having the one core player contributing 100% of such a key stat.
If Grant had based his column on intangibles, that would've been one thing.
His post here seems to allude to intangibles. But his column mostly trucks in stats. If he’s going to take that tack, I’d hope he’d take the time to make sure his argument’s logic holds water. I don’t think it does.
If he’d simply dealt in intangibles and the like, then it brings up a number of other questions (some of which have been asked here) — and/but it wouldn’t have led to the same off-base critique of WAR’s framework and standardization.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
Learn how to play DH?
Step 1: Take your baseball bat to home plate 4-5 times per game and try to get on base.
Step 2: Profit to the tune of $16MM
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Adam Dunn missed the memo
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
He forgot how to hit because he wasn't playing in the field?
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
You tell me.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Oh, good. No.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
this year
not career wise
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 22, 2011 7:04 AM CST up reply actions
Well I was wrong, I didn't think would come over.
Thanks for stopping by, but your pick just doesn’t make sense.
by lost in space on Nov 21, 2011 5:25 PM CST up reply actions
Heh.
The scattered shots across the bow he takes on here he pretty much ignores, but when he’s getting tarred and feathered like he is in this thread he usually comes in and tries to defend himself.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
This explanation is much better than the article you wrote
Perseverance isn't just the willingness to work hard. It's that, plus the willingness to be stubborn about your own belief in yourself."
---Merlin Olsen
This is the problem.
When it comes down to it, I thought Michael meant more to this team’s success than any player meant to any other team.
You have no way of knowing, so possibilities like this:
Is it perhaps influenced by seeing Young every day and therefore feeling I’m seeing something "more?" Perhaps.
Become certainties.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
xx
I thought Michael meant more to this team’s success than any player meant to any other team.
based on what?
how many non rangers games did you watch this year? how many did you watch from beginning to end?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 5:27 PM CST up reply actions
Why didn't you vote for Ben Zobrist in 2009?
He satisfies your criteria for MVP better than Michael Young did this year.
except
better
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 22, 2011 7:05 AM CST up reply actions
Please confirm right now that Michael Young will not be on your HOF ballot when he becomes eligible.
Barring a miraculous final 4-5 years worth of production.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Thanks for coming by and sharing this
And fwiw, I apologize for the fact that certain folks have reacted your taking the time to post this on here by acting like assholes.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 21, 2011 5:57 PM CST up reply actions
You don't need to apologize for people like me
EG’s skin is thick. Very thick.
by dolphinpuncher on Nov 21, 2011 5:59 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
no worries my man, you are in good company
Josey Wales and Erik Karros.
by Longhorn on Nov 21, 2011 6:36 PM CST up reply actions 9 recs
I just peed a little.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
What's funny is that I can't remember any railing on the bloggers that said
Young should have finished 16th in the MVP race last week.
Young finishes 8th in the only MVP race that matters, garners one first place vote from a local writer and a holy war shit storm is started by the Math Dorks.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
He should have finished worse than 16th.
He was maybe the 4th most valuable Ranger.
by behindthebag on Nov 21, 2011 5:28 PM CST up reply actions
He could have finished 3rd or 20th...
and that wouldn’t have changed why people were talking about Evan Grant’s ballot.
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 5:29 PM CST up reply actions
Are you also pissed that somebody (not local) gave Young a second place vote?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I'm not even "pissed" about Young getting a first place vote...
I’m not filled with as many emotions about this as you seem to think. For me, as I’ve said in this thread, if this had been any writer (and the writer that left Verlander off the ballot completely has some explaining to do, as well), in any market, I’d have said the same things as I have in pretty much any instance where someone uses their vote to do something silly to try to make some sort of point.
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 21, 2011 6:04 PM CST up reply actions
You seem to be ruffled easily
I can't stand people who are intolerant of other people's taste in music or people who like Nickelback.
by jonas m. on Nov 21, 2011 5:32 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
This is a good time to revisit a comparison of "clutch" stats.
Here is a ranking by FanGraphs “clutch,” just for AL players in 2011.
Here is a Young/Cabrera comparison using Baseball-Reference’s series of stats, using sOPS+:
RISP: 163/224
RISP with two outs: 98/263
Late & Close: 212/196
Tie Game: 108/154
High Leverage: 192/204
Medium Leverage: 130/190
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
x
@BenBadler:
Michael Young wasn’t even the Rangers’ most valuable Michael.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
by Aqua on Nov 21, 2011 5:27 PM CST reply actions 6 recs
hahahahahahaha
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 21, 2011 5:28 PM CST up reply actions
244 votes in
86% think MY being voted number 1 is worse than Verlander being left off completely.
I’m guessing a lot of Mariner and Ranger fans are voting here so take this with a grain of salt?
Who really gives a fuck what Jeff Sullivan thinks?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Pretty much everyone but you.
"An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come." *Victor Hugo*
This pleases me.
Not that I would have voted for Verlander, I’m just happy to see a pitcher win it. Just to prove they can or something.
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
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