Tuesday Morning Rangers Update
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 22, 2011 8:01 AM CST
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News! Actual Rangers news! Bless you, Jon Daniels.
In what would have been a morning for rehashing the American League MVP ballots, the Rangers went out and shed some light on their offseason plans by signing Joe Nathan to be their new closer.
T.R. Sullivan's story on the Nathan signing is about how Daniels feels the acquisition is really two moves in one. Nathan comes in to be a veteran closer and that frees up Neftali Feliz -- the team's best arm -- to officially join the rotation.
The Feliz as starter/reliever debate has existed since before Feliz even made his debut in the majors. Over the last two seasons the Rangers have struggled with determining how to get the most value out of Feliz's abilities. Two camps would form over the years. There was the don't mess with success camp, which seemed to have Nolan Ryan and Ron Washington as members, that wanted Feliz to remain a dynamic closer in the bullpen. And then there was the quality starters are awesome and valuable camp that held a desire to see if Feliz could fulfill his promise as a starter and therefore provide way more value to the team in the rotation.
It seems all along the Rangers have wanted to eventually get Feliz into the rotation but have lacked an exit strategy to feel comfortable in removing a very good closer from the bullpen.
And so, until last night, Feliz as a starter was something that appeared iffy at best despite the organization's stated desire to make the move. Now, with Nathan signed to be the closer, the Rangers have officially committed to transitioning Feliz's talents back to that of a starting pitcher.
Richard Durrett writes about Feliz moving to the rotation and thinks it's time to see what Feliz can do as a starter.
Drew Davison has quotes from Feliz about how he is happy to know what his role will be next season and he is ready to put in the work to be a starter.
Joey Matches fans the hot stove flames by taking us through his thoughts on the Nathan signing. Joey is "excited, wary, and curious all at the same time." And I think that sums things up rather nicely.
Frankly, no one likes the idea of spending decent amounts of money on relievers. It seems even scarier when the reliever in question isn't young and has had recent serious arm issues. But, going by what the front office is selling on this, the move seems to be more about freeing Feliz from the bullpen, while attempting to hit on what was fairly recently a top 2-3 closer in the game, rather than about just throwing money at the saves stat.
Ken Rosenthal writes about Joe Nathan wanting to be a Ranger. After sitting down with Rangers' brass, Nathan seemingly asked his agent to just get it done rather than wait around for the very best deal to come along.
This might be a first with a free agent and the Rangers. Obviously free agents have signed with the Rangers before but I don't know if I can recall one saying, "Man, I sure want to be a Texas Ranger. Let's get that done right now."
Durrett's Dazzling Dozen moment No. 4 is of the greatest game I have seen in person and one of the best nights of my life. AND IT'S ONLY NUMBER FOUR!!
Davison has a piece on Darren Oliver and how he would like to return to Texas next season. I still like you, DO.
On the A.L. MVP front: Here's Jeff Wilson's ballot and his thoughts on the vote.
Finally, Jeff Passan writes a really bizarre article about Michael Young, Jimmy McMillan, and Young's MVP support. I really don't know what to make of it. But it does have this quote from McMillan: "He's not supposed to be there, but he's there. McMillan look like Santa Claus. He wore sneakers to the debate. I like Michael Young. I really do. I say this to you, Mike: You keep your head up."
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Go away Darren Oliver
I hope to never see you in Arlington again
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
I wouldn't mind seeing him come back
he does have some terrible luck with the Rangers in crucial playoff games.
"In fact, most of these free-swinging Padres couldn’t hit Dock’s funky palm ball. I threw it often. But by then, also, the first acid distractions entered: the TV flickered; the cracks in the wall started to move; the hand soap started to breathe — those sorts of things. Plus I was drawn to the outdoor garden between innings. Rain was near, I sensed." - A.J. Daulerio
yes, terrible luck
or he’s just an awful guy to have on the team. Why not go sign Mike Henneman to be the pitching coach?
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
If only we had gotten Wettland a year earlier...
Dallas Stars Examiner
used to be under name hinduplaya
I'd be pretty interested in exploring other options.
DO is old. Ollllllllllllllllllld.
At some point he will fall off a cliff like Rhodes. I don’t want that to be here.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
It will eventually happen
and when it does, it will be sad but we can then cut him loose.
"In fact, most of these free-swinging Padres couldn’t hit Dock’s funky palm ball. I threw it often. But by then, also, the first acid distractions entered: the TV flickered; the cracks in the wall started to move; the hand soap started to breathe — those sorts of things. Plus I was drawn to the outdoor garden between innings. Rain was near, I sensed." - A.J. Daulerio
yes, and maybe that fall off a cliff moment will be in some horribly inopportune moment
like the 10th inning of game 6 of the World Series when you managed to barely scrape back a lead.
Oh wait.
Go away Oliver. GET AWAY FROM MY TEXAS RANGERS
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
His pitching wasn't that bad in Game 6.
A hard hit ball, a ridiculous blooper by Jay, and a terrible bunt by Lohse that got past the first line of infielders.
rhoades... guardado.... oliver...
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Nov 22, 2011 8:24 AM CST up reply actions
yeah
I’d rather bring Mike Gonzalez back
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Oliver
"In fact, most of these free-swinging Padres couldn’t hit Dock’s funky palm ball. I threw it often. But by then, also, the first acid distractions entered: the TV flickered; the cracks in the wall started to move; the hand soap started to breathe — those sorts of things. Plus I was drawn to the outdoor garden between innings. Rain was near, I sensed." - A.J. Daulerio
If it's the Kirkman who came up in September sitting mid-high 90's, I'd be fine if they went with him as their primary lefty.
by LiamP on Nov 22, 2011 9:04 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
that's sweet, tyd
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
I was thinking about
Game 6 the other day and I wonder how things would’ve gone with Gonzalez instead of Oliver for the 10th
Dallas Stars Examiner
used to be under name hinduplaya
The Rangers also just sent a warning shot across C.J.'s bow.
We have a contingency plan in place. Ball is in your court.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 22, 2011 8:09 AM CST reply actions
i think it speaks to how they think CJ will get more money than the Rangers are comfortable spending
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
Yep....I imagine CJ's agent told them the going rate and the Rangers just punted.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
lets see if anyone pays that
not sure they will
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
5/85?
I think he gets very close to that if not more.
He was an absolute stud the last two years.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
i thought it was for more money than that
I’d do that right now JW
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
It's frustrating because we've found out over time which pitchers can
do well in Arlington (hard throwing leftys). CJ is great in the community, you don’t have to worry about him partying too much and he pitched his ass off for us the last two years. This was the hottest summer ever yet CJ thrived in it.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
CJ isn't a hard throwing lefty anymore.
"In fact, most of these free-swinging Padres couldn’t hit Dock’s funky palm ball. I threw it often. But by then, also, the first acid distractions entered: the TV flickered; the cracks in the wall started to move; the hand soap started to breathe — those sorts of things. Plus I was drawn to the outdoor garden between innings. Rain was near, I sensed." - A.J. Daulerio
K rate of 8.3 last year (up from 7.5 in 2010) suggests he's not Charlie
Fucking Leibrandt. It was also the highest rate among the starters.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Usually, when you are talking about a hard throwing pitcher, they have to actually throw hard
CJ averages 91 mph on his fastball now. He can still bring it up to like 93/94, but he doesn’t throw in the mid 90s like he did as a reliever.
"In fact, most of these free-swinging Padres couldn’t hit Dock’s funky palm ball. I threw it often. But by then, also, the first acid distractions entered: the TV flickered; the cracks in the wall started to move; the hand soap started to breathe — those sorts of things. Plus I was drawn to the outdoor garden between innings. Rain was near, I sensed." - A.J. Daulerio
That's not a soft-tossing LH, gdawg.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
No... it's pretty much average for a LH pitcher.
It’s not Holland / Harry smoke… but they throw very hard for a LH.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
He also has a high K rate and induces a lot of weak contact, 'Stick.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I never said otherwise.
But your point was:
It’s frustrating because we’ve found out over time which pitchers can do well in Arlington (hard throwing leftys)
And CJ isn’t a hard throwing lefty. That doesn’t make him a bad pitcher or someone who isn’t good for Arlington… it means you were lazy in describing what pitcher does well.
What you meant was… a LH who gets a lot of ground balls and strikeouts and doesn’t give up a lot of home runs. Which can be a hard thrower… but isn’t exclusive to throwing hard.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
He throws 90-93 MPH and gets more Ks than
every other starter the Rangers have.
He’s not the Big Unit but he’s a long fucking way from Charlie Leibrandt.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 22, 2011 10:04 AM CST up reply actions
Why is it so hard for you to just say it
CJ isn’t a hard throwing lefty. Its most likely even by his own choice that he hold back some velocity for control or to not wear down. That doesn’t make him Charlie Leibrandt and no one is saying it does.
"In fact, most of these free-swinging Padres couldn’t hit Dock’s funky palm ball. I threw it often. But by then, also, the first acid distractions entered: the TV flickered; the cracks in the wall started to move; the hand soap started to breathe — those sorts of things. Plus I was drawn to the outdoor garden between innings. Rain was near, I sensed." - A.J. Daulerio
Holland and Harry are harder throwing lefties,
as you said. I think we’ve seen Wilson’s best already, I doubt he repeats his awesomeness of the last two years over the next two.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
That's not a hard throwing lefty josey
Its probably a bit on the high side of average, but CJ was a hard throwing lefty as a RP. He isn’t now.
"In fact, most of these free-swinging Padres couldn’t hit Dock’s funky palm ball. I threw it often. But by then, also, the first acid distractions entered: the TV flickered; the cracks in the wall started to move; the hand soap started to breathe — those sorts of things. Plus I was drawn to the outdoor garden between innings. Rain was near, I sensed." - A.J. Daulerio
Yeah... he's got average velocity now.
I wasn’t paying attention to the whole thread. He is not a hard throwing lefty.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
And he's not a soft-tosser either....pitchers like him
can thrive in Arlington.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
No one said he's a soft tosser
"In fact, most of these free-swinging Padres couldn’t hit Dock’s funky palm ball. I threw it often. But by then, also, the first acid distractions entered: the TV flickered; the cracks in the wall started to move; the hand soap started to breathe — those sorts of things. Plus I was drawn to the outdoor garden between innings. Rain was near, I sensed." - A.J. Daulerio
Why do people in here insist on arguing with him?
Defending Big D Check it out
Twitter
"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
The word is compulsion.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
who is insisting?
People argue here, it’s what we do.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Except arguing with Josey is pointless.
It just makes these threads intolerable.
Defending Big D Check it out
Twitter
"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
Because all the other arguments are very fruitful and a great idea?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I dont know
most of us are just spouting opinions and all of it is just for our own amusement. It’s all pointless, really, except that it’s an enjoyable distraction.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
I'm not saying we're spouting truth
just that with most posters, you can expect a reasoned response. You can expect to have a chance to sway them off of their view, etc.
With Josey, no matter what you say, he won’t back off, and his counter-arguments become more and more illogical and strawmen-y.
Not saying that our posts are so awesome… just that they are >>>>>>>>>>>>> JW posts.
where does that put
arguing with people who argue with Josey?
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
They (we) at least provide
worthy content to be read on a baseball blog, though.
Josey’s fault is not the issues he brings up. They are usually great points worth talking.
The part that makes me want to stab my eyes out are the rinse and repeat arguments he has day-in, day-out, after his theory has been thoroughly dismantled with actually legitimate arguments.
You aren't being argued with.
I just asked a question. I don’t understand the rationale. You’re just beating your head against the wall and you know exactly word for word what he’s going to say 99.5% of the time.
Defending Big D Check it out
Twitter
"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
I'm entertaining myself
arguing about baseball, I am not upset, I am not beating my head against the wall. I see no need for concern.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Fair enough.
Seems like a beating to me.
Defending Big D Check it out
Twitter
"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
I'm glad
you’re not beating your head against the wall.
by lost in space on Nov 22, 2011 1:11 PM CST up reply actions
I will back off if I'm wrong.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
We're talking about people insisting
that CJ is not a hard throwing lefty although he throws 90-93 MPH and K’d more than 8 batters per 9 IPs last year.
They’re insisting on arguing this point.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 22, 2011 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
He sits at just above 90.
What’s his average velocity?
Just because he occasionally touches 93 doesn’t mean he throws hard.
What do you think that phrase means? Strikeouts have NOTHING to do with the phrase “hard throwing”.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
He's somewhere between
an average to flame-thrower.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Out of 90 qualifying starters in 2011
Wilson was 51st in avg. FB velocity.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
See, you responded to Josey
with a fact that we’re all better-off having learned. Let’s see his response
93 MPH from a lefty isn't a Big Unit flamethrower
but it’s not Charlie Liebrandt slow.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
you keep putting up that 93
his avg. velo is 91. All of those ranked above him also touch 93 or higher, your point is kind of moot.
I do wonder how his velo will change over the next few years as he ages. I suspect he may evolve into a crafty lefty type given his brain and devotion to craftsmanship.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Given how similar he was to
Kenny Rogers at a comparable age, I could see him eventually becoming a crafty soft-tosser but that wouldn’t be until he’s 37+.
I said 93 MPH because he can get there when he needs to but he will generally sit at 90-92 MPH.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
So then he doesn't average 93
and isn’t a hard throwing lefty.
"In fact, most of these free-swinging Padres couldn’t hit Dock’s funky palm ball. I threw it often. But by then, also, the first acid distractions entered: the TV flickered; the cracks in the wall started to move; the hand soap started to breathe — those sorts of things. Plus I was drawn to the outdoor garden between innings. Rain was near, I sensed." - A.J. Daulerio
if you expand the list to everyone
who pitched more than 100 innings, Wilson is 65th out of 137.
Sexy info: Ogando is 2nd and Holland is 7th.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
wow thats some great sexings
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
Why expand it to everyone?
Why not isolate it leftys?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 22, 2011 11:27 PM CST up reply actions
Heh, wow
Because I don’t feel like counting there is no sortable leader board for FB velo with lefty-righty splits that I know of.
If you want to go to the fangraphs leaderboard for velocity and count be my guest.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
So CJ was 65th out of 137 pitchers in velocity...which by itself means top half or slightly above average (52.5%), correct?
Of those 137 pitchers, how many were lefthanded? Maybe 40?
If I had to guess…again, key word, guess…I’d say CJ was one of the 15-20 hardest throwing leftys.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
sorry
he’s already more crafty than hard-throwing, no matter how hard you try to fit the square peg in the round hole. A 91 FB just isn’t “hard throwing”.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
I'm not convinced that 5/85 would get the deal done anyways
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
I think Kurkjian predicted 4-64 on Ben & Skin
by blakethegr8 on Nov 22, 2011 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
That he will sign for 4-64?
I don’t think there’s any way he signs for 4 years but that’s a contract I think the Rangers would jump on in a heartbeat….
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Nov 22, 2011 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
If that's the contract he signs, then he'll be a Ranger
If it’s higher, and it likely will, then he’s not
I think the Rangers are ‘comfortable’ at 5, but not higher
So you think CJ's agent went to the Rangers...
said “we already have 3 offers over 100 mil so you’d better get him now” and the Rangers just took his word for it and backed down?
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Nov 22, 2011 9:23 AM CST up reply actions
I think it's more the years than the money
I’d bet they’d be fine with 3 or 4 years, maybe even at $15mil per.
But 5 or 6 years… this front office has stated (Nolan has when discussing Cliff Lee) how much it doesn’t like those kinds of contracts for pitchers.
by elvis1isking on Nov 22, 2011 9:15 AM CST up reply actions
And that's why you don't horse around a year ago.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
his demands were 6/120.....where did you see 5/85?
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
I haven't seen that verified.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
You did
You just ignored it. We talked about this last week. Try to keep up.
"In fact, most of these free-swinging Padres couldn’t hit Dock’s funky palm ball. I threw it often. But by then, also, the first acid distractions entered: the TV flickered; the cracks in the wall started to move; the hand soap started to breathe — those sorts of things. Plus I was drawn to the outdoor garden between innings. Rain was near, I sensed." - A.J. Daulerio
I don't remember seeing anything official.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
that's because it never happened
and is completely untrue. CJ was never asking for 5/85 last winter. He was considering 4/50 counter offer to the 3/36 they proposed, but he really wanted a 5 yr deal near 70.
we're from Texas
CJ says "Relax"
So the Rangers upped their offer to 4/50?
Or C.J. considered making a counter offer of 4/50?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Thank you for clearing this up.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 22, 2011 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
Also, what do you think CJ does if the team offers him
4/56 last January/February?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 22, 2011 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
i know its extreme hindsight but do you do that deal for CJ w/ only 1 full year starting under his belt?
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
He was calling for something similar back in Spring.
So Josey would have, yes.
It was risky though… CJ led the AL in walks in 2010… no guarantee he would improve or even pitch as well.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
He was also waaay up there in Ks and IPs.
What was his road ERA this year…something like 2.31 in 110 IPs?
That’s a damned good pitcher.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 22, 2011 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
risky brosef very risky
which is why they didn’t…but you don’t get the huge rewards w/out taking risks.
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
If you're willing to get in bed with him
for 3/36 that must mean you believe in his ability.
I think it was an offer they knew he wouldn’t sign.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 22, 2011 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
Called "an opening offer".
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Sounds like a final offer for last year.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 22, 2011 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
I haven't seen anything to indicate it was a "final offer".
I’m still not 100% if the 4/50 eclou mentioned came from the Rangers or just something CJ was considering proposing to CJ.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Nobody really knows what's going on
but it appears that JD was skeptical about CJ doing what he did in 2011 and now that the price is going way up, he doesn’t want to pay the freight.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 22, 2011 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
shit i was skeptical as well
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
I'm sure everyone on Earth not named C.J. was skeptical
Pretty much everyone here and in the national press was.
Colby seemed more likely to repeat his performance.
Hell… most national folks don’t think he can repeat it for 2012.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
yes sir reasons why I wouldn't have offered a whole lot
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
4/50 was something he was considering as a fair compromise
but in the end both sides deferred. 4/50 was never offered or counter-offered to my knowledge. The main point was that he never threw 5/85 out there as his number, and I still doubt that he is asking for a 6 yr contract.
we're from Texas
CJ says "Relax"
I'm talking about after 2010.
2010 was a good year… but he walked a shit ton of guys. As I said… led the AL in walks.
It was a very real possibility that he might have a worse year in 2011 than he did.
Now… it played out much differently… he had a career year and cut his walks dramatically… but that’s not something easily predicted.
3 years and $36 million is a hell of a lot more than he would have been offered if he were still a reliever after 2008.
It was slanted to the Rangers favor and an opening offer. But eclou has said that CJ really wanted five years.
He might have accepted 4/56… but he might not have. And if he did and pitched worse… now you’re fucked.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Who cares what they would have offered
him after 2008? He was hurt that year.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 22, 2011 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
Yes.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 22, 2011 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
4/56 was an offer better than what Silva, Lilly or Meche
had signed in recent years but not as good as AJ Burnett or Lackey.
Given his one year of success, that would have been a very fair offer.
3/36 in early March was a fucking joke.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 22, 2011 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
i still haven't heard 3/36 anywhere else besides the ticket
I’m very skeptical about that offer.
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
Norm mentioned it....didn't eclou confirm it?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 22, 2011 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
hmm not sure....calling ECLOU !
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
I saw that last spring and then somebody got to him so he changed
his tune very quick. We know how he felt about it last year.
The fact that he’s been told he’s going to start this year instead of volunteering like CJ did is troubling.
I just don’t think this is going to work out well. Feliz can’t do what CJ did last year and Nathan can’t do what Feliz did the last two years.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
This year isn't last year.
The is reason to be concerned. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t want to start now. Things change. Be excited. Feliz is one of the highest upside pitchers this franchise has ever developed.
do you think CJ can do next season
what CJ did last season?
by elvis1isking on Nov 22, 2011 9:48 AM CST up reply actions
Absolutely...maybe even better.
He’s healthy and will continue to stay in shape.
If he goes some place that’s friendly to pitchers….like say Anaheim….he could be a monster.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I think CJ probably will be a very good pitcher for the next 4 or 5 years
but I also think there’s a very good chance last season will be his peak season
by elvis1isking on Nov 22, 2011 10:00 AM CST up reply actions
Ding ding ding.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
You negotiate that down.
The best offer I’ve seen or heard that the Rangers made was 3/36 in early March.
That offer was a joke.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
If CJ wants 5 years
and as an organization you’re not willing to go there then there isn’t much negotiating left to do.
You can offer 4 and an option, but if CJ thinks he can earn 5 and an option, he won’t take that.
I think you’re way off on your analysis of how the negotiations played out, but mine is as much conjecture as yours.
by elvis1isking on Nov 22, 2011 9:23 AM CST up reply actions
That was Nolan's baby all the way.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
by JDT217 on Nov 22, 2011 9:25 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Negotiate it down to what?
CJ obviously had a very high value on himself and felt very confident in his ability to go out and duplicate in 2011 what he did in 2010. He wasn’t going to budge enough to get anywhere close to a level the rangers were comfortable with.
You don't offer much more than that
to a guy with one full season of starting with iffy peripherals. Of course Wilson turned it down, being just a year from a free agent offseason very low on starting pitching talent.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
If they don't want to sign him to a 5 year contract now
why would they sign him to a 5 year contract before the season.
"In fact, most of these free-swinging Padres couldn’t hit Dock’s funky palm ball. I threw it often. But by then, also, the first acid distractions entered: the TV flickered; the cracks in the wall started to move; the hand soap started to breathe — those sorts of things. Plus I was drawn to the outdoor garden between innings. Rain was near, I sensed." - A.J. Daulerio
yeah, i dont think CJ cares.
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Nov 22, 2011 8:24 AM CST up reply actions
Eh...
It was obvious we were going to sign a proven closer in the off season after the comments made in Spring Training.
I don’t think this is about Game 6 and Feliz not being strong enough mentally… nor do I think it’s about C.J. in anyway.
JD wanted Feliz to be a starter this year. He told us this a billion times last off season how much more valuable it would be to get 200 innings out of Feliz instead of 60.
Nolan Ryan and Ron Washington countered with “Gotta have a proven closer” and ultimately they won the day last year to keep Feliz in the pen.
But back in March people were talking about how the Rangers were likely to either trade for a closer in the middle of the year or sign one in the off season.
This is just that 7 month plan finally coming into fruition…
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
The ninja finally struck
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Nov 22, 2011 8:29 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I dont think it was as obvious as you say
I dont think we would have gone to the papelbon level of money for a closer. I think this was the perfect situation for the Rangers. The money was not too much, the length of contract wasn’t too long, and the guy is a proven closer.
We didn't go to the papelbon level.
I never said JD was an idiot… but I knew we’d get a guy with a “saves” track record. I never said it would be a $40m type guy.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Saying JD is an idiot
Is an insta-ban
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Nov 22, 2011 8:34 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Its not just about a $40 million dollar committment
I dont think JD would have been comfortable giving anyone 3+ years based on his comments about relievers.
I dont know how many “proven closers” would have taken less than 3 guaranteed years unless they had the situation Nathan was in (coming off injury + age).
And trading for one was a possibility as well.
If there wasn’t a good FA candidate.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
when did you go
from this:
Jon Daniels is better at allocating resources Than you give him credit for.
Free Agent closers are one of the worst places to spend money.
It’ll be an internal option (Adams or Feliz) with Scheppers being groomed for the role.
by matchst1ck on Aug 1, 2011 2:28 PM CDT
and this:
You have advocated bringing in a FA closer. Unless you mean a set up guy we put in the closer role (of which almost non exist better than Adams) you will be forced to pay millions because of the "save" statistic. That’s what they will demand.
Look at what Soriano got for signing as a setup guy for NYY.
JD will not spend that money after going out and getting Adams and Koji. It will not happen.
by matchst1ck on Aug 1, 2011 2:55 PM CDT
to this:
… but I knew we’d get a guy with a "saves" track record…
by elvis1isking on Nov 22, 2011 9:11 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
here's the link
http://www.lonestarball.com/2011/8/1/2309545/poll-who-will-be-the-rangers-closer-in-2012
Fair warning… It was a beating of a conversation. The first time and going back through it now.
by elvis1isking on Nov 22, 2011 9:17 AM CST up reply actions
damn internet has a long memory
You can only be young once but can be immature forever!
in match's defense
Koji kind of killed a lot of the optimism about having a few internal closer candidates.
"In fact, most of these free-swinging Padres couldn’t hit Dock’s funky palm ball. I threw it often. But by then, also, the first acid distractions entered: the TV flickered; the cracks in the wall started to move; the hand soap started to breathe — those sorts of things. Plus I was drawn to the outdoor garden between innings. Rain was near, I sensed." - A.J. Daulerio
heh yeah
from above
It was obvious we were going to sign a proven closer in the off season after the comments made in Spring Training.
some of us actually believed this some time back. I’m just curious when match changed his mind…
by elvis1isking on Nov 22, 2011 9:30 AM CST up reply actions
From a few weeks ago based on the comments JD, Nolan and Wash were throwing out.
My point from Spring is that it was very explicit that Wash needed his “proven” guy.
I should have been clearing by saying “acquire by signing or trading”.
I thought perhaps Adams would be the guy back in August since he’s been one of the best relievers in all of baseball for three years… but comments in the past three weeks indicated that we were still looking for more.
I’ve said several times in the past few weeks that I’ve had a nagging fear that Nolan and Wash would make JD sign a big money closer.
My statement about JD is still true… but I was underestimating the Nolan/Wash camp.
Nathan is a good compromise.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
yeah
in August I didn’t think Nathan would be available. As soon as he was, I assumed he would be the number one target if the scouts and docs signed off on it.
I think it’s mostly placating Wash’s need for a proven closer. I think Nolan and JD are supporting their manager and signing Nathan allows them to do that without risking additional years/money.
No doubt it’s a risky signing, but all in all it’s a tolerable risk.
by elvis1isking on Nov 22, 2011 9:51 AM CST up reply actions
OHHHHHH SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP
by LiamP on Nov 22, 2011 9:33 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Well, the reasons we didn't have to go to the Papelbon level of money for our closer
Is because our new closer may spend most of the season on the DL and/or be ineffective.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
better than going Papelbon level
and the new closer spending most of the season on the DL and/or be ineffective.
Risk is risk. JD mitigated it as much as possible — from a monetary standpoint anyway — with this signing.
by elvis1isking on Nov 22, 2011 9:19 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, if Nathan starts the year as our closer I think somebody else has the job
at the end of the season.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Yet another reason why the move is stupid.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I imagine that Nathan will be something close to what Gossage was at the end. Old and ineffective.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
37-year old, high mileage reliever 18 months removed from TJ and 6 months removed from DL stint for sore elbow.
What’s not to like?
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Isn't 18+ months enough time to recover if you're going to recover at all?
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
I've heard that it usually takes 2 years to fully have your stuff back after TJ
I can’t verify that but I remember reading that somewhere. Anyways, the point is that they signed a guy that won’t pitch for the Rangers until he’s 2 years removed from the surgery. Throwing out 18-months is just wrong.
That's the rule of thumb
It usually takes 2 years to get the control back and getting the movement on your pitches again.
"In fact, most of these free-swinging Padres couldn’t hit Dock’s funky palm ball. I threw it often. But by then, also, the first acid distractions entered: the TV flickered; the cracks in the wall started to move; the hand soap started to breathe — those sorts of things. Plus I was drawn to the outdoor garden between innings. Rain was near, I sensed." - A.J. Daulerio
Whatever. We paid a premium (smaller than most, but still a premium) for a guy who we wouldn't have even sniffed if he hadn't converted so many "save" opportunities over the last decade.
He’ll be the fourth or fifth best reliever in next year’s bullpen.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
The commitment isn't that big.
And he’s not likely to be the fourth/fifth best reliever. Right now he looks like he’ll be the second best behind Adams. I don’t know how you can expect him to be worse than Yoshi, Lowe, or Koji. It is possible but it sure isn’t likely.
Frankie had TJ surgery....maybe spring training of 2005 and was 25 years old.
It took him until 2008 to recover enough to be effective in The Show.
You’d think after this season and post-season that the club would have learned their lesson and wouldn’t fuck around when it came to their bullpen.
This is worse because I assume it means we’re also losing our horse starting pitcher as well.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Go look at John Smoltz if you want a good comparison.
He was pretty effective after Tommy John surgery, even one year out. Don’t use one-player sample sizes to prove a point.
And before anyone says anthing.
I’m not saying he’ll be good because John Smoltz was good. I’m just saying there are good examples and bad examples, using any limited sample is bad.
Different pitchers.
Different work ethics involved.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
Pressure? If there’s any pressure it’s the pressure pressurizing the panty cannon.
That's severely underestimating what Nathan can do
Last year wasn’t that bad if you throw out his April.
It was damn good if you throw out August, too.
This cracks me up.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
Why would the Twins cut him loose?
They know him better than anybody else.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
You apparently missed the part
of Nathan saying that he wanted to get the deal done here and he didn’t care if he left money on the table.
"In fact, most of these free-swinging Padres couldn’t hit Dock’s funky palm ball. I threw it often. But by then, also, the first acid distractions entered: the TV flickered; the cracks in the wall started to move; the hand soap started to breathe — those sorts of things. Plus I was drawn to the outdoor garden between innings. Rain was near, I sensed." - A.J. Daulerio
yup nathan wanted to come here exclusively it sounds like
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
Ahhhhh....that just has a nice ring to it.....
It’s funny what winning does for an organization…..
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Nov 22, 2011 10:00 AM CST up reply actions
it does have a nice ring to it
love it
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
They didn't "cut him loose"
They declined his 12 million dollar option and offered him a 2 year deal at a comparable price to the Rangers.
Because he had a 12.5 mil option
That’s nearly what we will pay over two seasons
Nolan on both sides of the question
Basically I think Nolan Ryan sees more value from a starting pitcher with the stuff Feliz has, from some of his previous statements, but the exit strategy was the issue concerning who could replace him as closer. They didn’t have somebody that showed they could close, Ogando became the fifth starter, and now with Nathan and Adams, they have a couple of closer types.
I suppose I’m not surprised, but if they sign CJ that means Ogando or somebody isn’t going to be starting. I don’t see Feldman breaking into the starting lineup without injuries. My guess is now they won’t sign CJ, but I will be pleasantly surprised if they do.
Heheheh
No.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
CJ has never said that he's going to go after the top dollar contract
And now the Rangers have officially announced that there’s won’t be his highest offer
I don’t think anything has really changed … except in regards to Neffy’s immediate career
Joe Nathan has a good name.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
It's hearty. I could see him enjoying a bowl of stew.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
i imagine him now w/ a gigantic beard.
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
Aren't you supposed to not trust guys with two first names?
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
i have 3 first names
WUT
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
YOU KNOW IT
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
I just realized
DARREN OLIVER HAS TWO FIRST NAMES!
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
So does Nolan Ryan
And Matt Harrison
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
well, Harrison is more a last name than a first name
but you’re right about Nolan. But notice how he went out and signed Joe Nathan and Darren Oliver. He’s trying to build a team of only first names…
Hmm… CJ Wilson too (though Wilson, like Harrison, gets the “a president had it as a last name” bye)
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Han Solo trumps President Harrison.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
if there were only the one
but there were two Harrisons. Two gets the tie breaker
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
There was a time when Ryan was not a ubiquitous first name.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
Pressure? If there’s any pressure it’s the pressure pressurizing the panty cannon.
The rent is too DAMN high.
I was right in the middle of a fucking reptile zoo! And somebody was giving booze to these god damn things! It wont be long now, before they tear us to shreds.
Heh
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Nov 22, 2011 8:32 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
That really is a great article
I’m glad I put off going to work for a few minutes to read it.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
a few? 34 minutes and counting here...
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
I'm still trying to figure out how to pronounce 'Passan'
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Nov 22, 2011 8:35 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I accent the A
past that, I’m stumped
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
Indeed....
Evan’s gonna have a hard time living this one down…..
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Nov 22, 2011 8:51 AM CST up reply actions
This is journalism that Edward R. Murrow would be proud of:
McMillan called from New York, where he was watching "The Situation Room" and doing push-ups. He criticized Newt Gingrich, outlined the Rent Is Too Damn High Party’s future, paused for a few more push-ups and, when prompted about sports, went into a minute-long dissection of Eli Manning.
"You're failing Seymour; what is it with you and failure?"
Yu want something more?
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Nov 22, 2011 8:33 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Oh my goodness
Hardest throwing rotation in baseball?
Feliz 96.3 mph (as reliever in 2011)
Ogando 95.1 mph (highest in baseball for starter in 2011)
Holland 94.2 mph
Darvish 94 mph (in Japan according to fangraphs)
Harrison 92.8 mph
*I still want Lewis in the rotation, but this is fun to think about.
We just need Lewis for the playoffs.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
Pressure? If there’s any pressure it’s the pressure pressurizing the panty cannon.
Hey storm
what is Nathan’s avg velocity.
I ask because I have heard is “out” pitch is his change up recently. Nathan is certainly not a Goose Gossage type of closer but how different is he than what we have seen here the past two seasons?
You can only be young once but can be immature forever!
In 2011 (according to fangraphs)
Fastball: 92.3 mph, thrown 57.7%
Slider: 87.8 mph, thrown 22.4%
Curveball: 81.4, thrown 19.7%
Changeup: 87.5, thrown 0.3%
Fastball over the last few years:
2005 – 65.9% (94.8)
2006 – 57.6% (94.8)
2007 – 64.7% (94.8)
2008 – 60.7% (93.5)
2009 – 59.2% (93.6)
2011 – 57.7% (92.3)
Thanks.
Signing Nathan (Which I view as a very good addition for a reasonble price and time) appears to me to go contrary to the Rangers philosophy of recent years of going for “live” arms. Nathan is not a flame throwing closer but his track record and reputation make this a great addition to the two time AL champions clubhouse.
You can only be young once but can be immature forever!
He mixes his pitches nicely.
Not your prototypical fastball-heavy fireman. But can be just as effective.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
Pressure? If there’s any pressure it’s the pressure pressurizing the panty cannon.
Well we try to develop live arms.
We really haven’t acquired established major leaguers with big fastballs. Guys like Lee, Lewis, Adams, Uehara, Oliver, and Rhodes aren’t known for their fastballs.
Fair enough
I was thinking about the addition of Lowe in the Lee deal. He was injured but was added to the deal because of his “live” arm. I may be and probable am wrong but the philosophy of going after live arms goes back to the Tex trade and Harrison (injured at the time) had the same Live arm rep.
I am not saying the acquisition of Nathan or the guys you list is a bad thing. In fact quite the opposite. Everyone wants the 100 mph pitchers that are effective. Unfortunately they are rare and hard to obain. I give JD credit for compromising on one value to stick with the long term plan for Feliz.
You can only be young once but can be immature forever!
he makes Wash comfortable
and allows Feliz to go to the rotation without costing $12mil per year.
It’s obviously a gamble, but he was throwing well (velo wise) at the end of the season so it isn’t a huge risk.
It’s basically the money we spent on Webb and Rhodes last season, so even if it’s sunk it shouldn’t hurt the team going forward from a financial standpoint.
by elvis1isking on Nov 22, 2011 9:38 AM CST up reply actions
People here to realize that his velocity was down at the beginning of last year.
His breaking balls were also a disaster. He was just coming back fully from TJ surgery. It would be better to look at the stuff he was throwing at the end of last year, say second half o the season.
Especially unusual to have two lefties throwing that hard
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
i think there's a trade coming down the pipeline
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
I think there's an extension or two in the pipeline.
You can only be young once but can be immature forever!
we can only hope
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
Sorry but that really wouldn't qualify as a "big splash" IMO
It would be very nice theres no question about it but if all we did the rest of the offseason was extend our current roster I would be pretty disappointed with the club as a whole going into next year
Why?
I understand the desire to sign every top FA, but how disappointed can you be that a team that just went to the WS is going to be mostly the same going into next year with some changes here and there.
"In fact, most of these free-swinging Padres couldn’t hit Dock’s funky palm ball. I threw it often. But by then, also, the first acid distractions entered: the TV flickered; the cracks in the wall started to move; the hand soap started to breathe — those sorts of things. Plus I was drawn to the outdoor garden between innings. Rain was near, I sensed." - A.J. Daulerio
bigsteve wants Fielder
anything else will leave him unsatisfied
by elvis1isking on Nov 22, 2011 9:32 AM CST up reply actions
can't blame you bud
Fielder would be nice
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
Same
I wanted Sizemore, too, but seeing as that isn’t going to happen, I’d still be happy with Fielder/Nathan
Dallas Stars Examiner
used to be under name hinduplaya
Same here
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
Normally I would agree with you Bigsteve
For years I have been wondering why the Rangers don’t do something to make this team competitive.
This off season I am more accepting of minor tweaks than in years past.
Back to back AL championships has something to do with that. Add that a respectable team payroll as opposed to the years of $50-65M payrolls. The Rangers have solid options at every position.
I would be satisfied with tweaking the roster this off season, but that is just a humble opinion.
You can only be young once but can be immature forever!
Last year was the year of minor tweaks
Adding Torrealba and trading for Napoli being the biggest move.
But now we are at a critical point for this club. Our farm system is very light on upper level positional player prospects and the majority of our upcoming FAs are just that, positional players. The upcoming FA classes aren’t very intruiging and just lost a big fish when Kemp resigned last week.
This year just lines up so perfectly. We have a weakness at 1B, not a hole but a weakness that is a obvious area for upgrade if possible. There are 2 premium superstar 1B on the FA market. And the two biggest spending clubs are not involved with them due to their current rosters. One of them is a 28 year old who we could reap the benefits of the prime of his career.
It just sets up so perfectly to go sign him and markedly improve your club and hedge against regression from guys like Napoli or Young or Kinsler or Beltre. I understand it would be a huge financial commitment but one that I would like the rangers to make and thus not have to make similar commitments to older more injury prone players in the coming years
Adding Torrealba and trading for Napoli...
Were bigger moves than signing Adrian Beltre?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Wow
How did I overlook that?
Diregard about last year being only minor tweaks. Still think we need more than minor tweaks though
doesn't it really depend on the heights of Prince's offers though?
I mean, you can’t want him at $200 million, right?
I’m not sure I want him at $150mil, but at some point it has to bee too much doesn’t it?
by elvis1isking on Nov 22, 2011 9:52 AM CST up reply actions
I would be fine with 8/200
Its the price of acquiring a player of his caliber
Given though that the Yanks and Red Sox aren’t involved I dont think it goes that high but if thats what it took I would do it.
I wouldn’t necessarily like it and you would obviously have to expect that those last couple years are going to be “overpayments” but you are paying for what hes going to do the first 5-6 years of the deal more than the last couple
8/200 for an overweight DH who couldn't keep
pounds off when he was younger.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 22, 2011 10:02 AM CST up reply actions
he plays 1st base
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
What up with the insult?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 22, 2011 10:38 AM CST up reply actions
Works for me....
He can play first base and then DH in the later years of the contract….
Fielder + RF porch + jet-stream = a load of HRs
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Nov 22, 2011 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
You got me to laugh.
I am glad that I am not the only one that occasionally misses the obvious.
You can only be young once but can be immature forever!
Baseball games need to be played already..
"Stay hungry, stay foolish." ~ R.I.P. Steve Jobs (1955 - 2011)
Sweet, something happened. And I like it.
I saw Nathan look terrible in April and a couple other appearances, but I also saw him look lights out. His overall WHIP and K/BB were still strong despite struggling to get going again. Didn’t need someone with the “closer” tag, but they got him for setup man money because of the injury rebound concerns so why not…
I’m highly skeptical of Feliz starting at this point, but as everyone says.. nows the time to find out.
Wish Darvish would be posted… that could theoretically have already happened right? Just waiting around for a decision to be made instead?
I was skeptical of CJ starting....
I was skeptical of Ogando starting….
I’m skeptical of Feliz starting….
Let’s hope I’m wrong again….
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Nov 22, 2011 8:49 AM CST up reply actions
But when Feliz flops, you can be one who says, "I was always skeptical about Neftali starting..."
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
I am right there with you Ghost.
Skepticm can be a good thing.
You can only be young once but can be immature forever!
Value Value Value
Thanks. If Pappel-bone sets the A-list market, this is a solid value opportunity. Worth a try.
"It's incredibly hard." - Ronald Washington
Pitching as of now
6 SP options: Lewis, Ogando, Holland, Harrison, Feldman, & Feliz.
NICE
Pen: Nathan, Adams, Lowe, Uehara, Toshi,
NEEDS LH’s.
You can only be young once but can be immature forever!
will probably resign Gonzalez
if so, there’s one. Oliver may come back too…
by elvis1isking on Nov 22, 2011 9:27 AM CST up reply actions
I am OK with either or both Oliver and Gonzalez
I wonder if the rangers are looking to get Perez into the pen at some point in the coming season.
A year or two in the pen then another conversion to the rotation???
You can only be young once but can be immature forever!
My guess is Ogando moves back to the bully
And Perez is called up when a pitcher goes to the DL sometime in July or August. And he never gets sent back down again.
Ogando to the pen??? Not sure about that but can't argue your point
Given recent trends of converting relievers to starters I think (if Perez continue to perform) adding him to the pen in the second half of the coming year is reasonable and his live arm from the left side could be a difference maker going down the stretch.
You can only be young once but can be immature forever!
JD explicitly said last night that Ogando is intended to stay in the rotation.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I recognize that.
I just don’t think he’ll stick. I think he’ll be moved back sometime between March and May.
so what is the strategy.. if we dont sign hamilton to an extension..
do we shop him at the trade deadline if we are in contention? or we just ride him through the end of the season and take our draft pick compensation for type A? depends on our playoff hopes, etc?
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Nov 22, 2011 9:59 AM CST reply actions
We trade Hamilton for a 8th inning guy at the deadline, especially if we're in contention.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
How does trading Hamilton while we're in contention make any sense?
You don’t trade a strong offensive COF at the deadline for an 8th inning reliever if you’re in contention.
Hamilton only gets traded if we’re OUT of contention.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Yup....
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Nov 22, 2011 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
I'll go ahead and give myself the:
Whoosh!
This was clearly a joke…
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
cant tell if serious.
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Nov 22, 2011 10:04 AM CST up reply actions
I suspect they keep him if they are still in contention....
Especially if he’s having a 2010/“I’m playing for a contract” season….
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Nov 22, 2011 10:03 AM CST up reply actions
Do what we did with CJ this year
We are gonna make CJ a fair offer but not one of the top ones and let him walk. With Josh we will likely make the qualifying offer to him and thus would get back compensation.
The only way we think about trading Josh is if we are way out of it early in the year.
trading Josh would be a PR disaster.
its not going to happen
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
i got you what you're saying.......things would have to go way wrong for us to be out of it
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
I can't imagine they trade him unless they're out of contention at the end of July.
I also don’t think they’re going to sign him long-term and that will be a supreme fuck-up.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 22, 2011 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
Bigsteve...
If you can do only one do you…
Sign Fielder or Hamilton?
I assume we both are going to be like Deion and want both but assume we can only have one.
You can only be young once but can be immature forever!
Im assuming that means a lefty or two
With Adams, Nathan, Feldman, Lowe, Uehara we are pretty set on RHP
lolwut
"In fact, most of these free-swinging Padres couldn’t hit Dock’s funky palm ball. I threw it often. But by then, also, the first acid distractions entered: the TV flickered; the cracks in the wall started to move; the hand soap started to breathe — those sorts of things. Plus I was drawn to the outdoor garden between innings. Rain was near, I sensed." - A.J. Daulerio
lolwut
"In fact, most of these free-swinging Padres couldn’t hit Dock’s funky palm ball. I threw it often. But by then, also, the first acid distractions entered: the TV flickered; the cracks in the wall started to move; the hand soap started to breathe — those sorts of things. Plus I was drawn to the outdoor garden between innings. Rain was near, I sensed." - A.J. Daulerio
I expect
Robbie Ross to be in this pen as a LOOGy sooner rather than later.
"By MLB.TV, we can see J. Hamilton's homer, M. Young's clutch, and N. Feliz's explosive. All about Rangers things can be our interest" --South Korean Rangers fan
I'm a Web & TV Sports Producer at WFAA. Feel free to email me about anything.
by Conjunction on Nov 22, 2011 10:43 AM CST up reply actions
Ross as a LOOGY and Neil Ramirez as our new Ogando
"In fact, most of these free-swinging Padres couldn’t hit Dock’s funky palm ball. I threw it often. But by then, also, the first acid distractions entered: the TV flickered; the cracks in the wall started to move; the hand soap started to breathe — those sorts of things. Plus I was drawn to the outdoor garden between innings. Rain was near, I sensed." - A.J. Daulerio
Laughing out loud, what?
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Nov 22, 2011 11:25 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'm wearing my Feliz shirt in honor of his move to the roto
Of course I wear it everyday just because he’s alive
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Nov 22, 2011 11:24 AM CST via mobile reply actions
I haven't even put on a Rangers hat yet.
Too painful.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
I only put them on if im out of options
Or on specail occasions, such as this.
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Nov 22, 2011 11:42 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I wear the shirts now and then
Thst way if I run into any of them they know I still love them.
by Chewtoy123 on Nov 22, 2011 4:24 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Why would you say such a horrible thing?
"In fact, most of these free-swinging Padres couldn’t hit Dock’s funky palm ball. I threw it often. But by then, also, the first acid distractions entered: the TV flickered; the cracks in the wall started to move; the hand soap started to breathe — those sorts of things. Plus I was drawn to the outdoor garden between innings. Rain was near, I sensed." - A.J. Daulerio
I think Matt Kemp wins the NL MVP but I'm rooting for Ryan Braun.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I'm rooting for Brandon Wood
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Nov 22, 2011 11:43 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
x
Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
Am told that the playoff fields will expand IMMEDIATELY, for 2012. Five teams in each league, with a one-game playoff between two wildcards.
"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11
hate hate hate hate hate
hate hate hate hate hate hate hate
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
WOAH
Olney- Am told that the playoff fields will expand IMMEDIATELY, for 2012. Five teams in each league, with a one-game playoff between two wildcards.
"We are no longer a ride at Six Flags, we are in contention to do some things that will make our lives complete. I have been waiting for this for a long time." - Chuck Morgan
And Rosenthal
New CBA will expand instant replay to include fair/foul and “trapped” ball plays, subject to discussions between #MLB and umpires.
"We are no longer a ride at Six Flags, we are in contention to do some things that will make our lives complete. I have been waiting for this for a long time." - Chuck Morgan
Of course we have to ask the umps first.
Wouldn’t want to piss off Cowboy Joe.
by Axe Em Rangers on Nov 22, 2011 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
Holy moly
A GIS for “Joe Nathan texas” provides a shockingly NSFW option a couple scrolls down…
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
Whoa, Joe Nathan
Also, I still really like the signing. It’s a lot of money, but that’s how FA works.
Also, Feliz going to the rotation is amazing news.
Lastly, not a single rumor pre-signing. JD is so ninja
Eff
I like Nathan
His numbers are better than his ERA suggests and he played behind a truly awful defense all year. He’s only 1 year removed from tommy john and he’s 36 which makes me feel like he’d require significantly less commitment. The lesser commitment is what interests me. I’d do 2 years/$12M for Nathan.
HeebsJobu.
It certainly does.
All told, I’m not confident this signing will work out. I just like this a hell of a lot more than signing Madson/Papelbon to a huge contract.
Right...
This was the best chance at a good value signing on the market, other than possibly Broxton.
Well this seems like a big deal. And kind of weird.
International bonuses undergoing drastic overhaul. Among the biggest: Starting in 2013-14, teams can trade $ from their international pool.
and
For example: Worst team in baseball gets $5M to spend internationally. If team doesn’t want to spend it all, it can trade $ to another team.
Credit: Jeff Passan
And more. There will definitely be a front page post on this
Teams can trade for only 50% more than their international spending cap. So if a team has a $2.5M cap, most it can trade for is $1.25M.
Draft tax is harsh: Teams that go more than 5% over slot get a 75% tax. From 5-10% over, a 75% tax and loss of 1st-round pick the next year.
More draft tax: Go 10-15% over, 100% tax and loss of 1st- and 2nd-round picks. 15% and higher is 100% tax and loss of two first-round picks.
Every team will have $2.9M to spend in international bonus money this season. Money is not tradeable this year.
$2.9M?
Wow.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
You mind linking?
I hadn’t seen this, yet. The Rangers can only spend $2.9M in Int’l this year? That’s crazy low.
Is that a hard cap or just subject to luxury tax?
x
JeffPassan Jeff Passan
Sources: Cubans under 23 years old and with less than three years in pro ball will be considered “amateurs” and count against int’l bonus $.
I really doubt it.
This is why they can trade it.
Teams can trade for only 50% more than their international spending cap. So if a team has a $2.5M cap, most it can trade for is $1.25M.
bullshit
taking a flamethrower to a problem that needed a pellet gun
That 2nd one, I like
slows Boston down from paying their 5th-8th picks $2m a piece
Also slows the amateurs from choosing their teams with lofty demands
so much stupid there
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
It's really going to lower per-player salary
This seems like such a weird thing to be able to do.
These LA players are completely not involved in this negotiating process, yet they are significantly affected by it.
Feels like an anti-trust issue, although they clearly are exempt. It’s just weird.
I agree with Adam that it is going to filter money to big leaguers.
And I also agree with Kevin Goldstein when he said it means a lot of big-time multi-sport athletes are going to choose against baseball now.
Yep.
The loss of highly athletic talent to other sports is the foot the owners are shooting themselves in.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
That's the most retarded aspect of it
Dudes like Bubba Starling and Zach Lee don’t even consider baseball under those restrictions.
by LiamP on Nov 22, 2011 12:37 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
That's the most retarded aspect of it
Dudes like Bubba Starling and Zach Lee don’t even consider baseball under those restrictions.
by LiamP on Nov 22, 2011 12:38 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'm disappointed my Mario Balotelli image didn't get a response.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Oh, it certainly will
That’s the weird part. Owners are happy enough to forcefully lower the price per player, warping how the market would actually work.
Players know that if LA isn’t going to get the money, they will.
So it’s two parties with adverse interests to the 3rd party, making rules affecting the 3rd. It’s slimy.
Exactly how the nflpa
Sold out rookies
"If I had connections and knew I would have to start out doing scenes with dudes, I think I would give porno a serious shot." by River Fenix on Sep 23, 2011 10:44 AM CDT
by thedudeabides on Nov 22, 2011 11:54 PM CST up reply actions
Up to 5% over slot is taxes. After that you start losing 1st rounders.
Pretty bad.
by LiamP on Nov 22, 2011 12:48 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
It's measured for the first 10 rds
So you can still go over slot for your first round pick.
You’ll just have to draft bargains in rounds 2-10.
Also, up to 5% over is taxed at 75%. 5.1%+ forfeits a 1st round pick. I predict most every team will be living in that 5% range with not one going over 5%.
Me too.
Rangers just lost a huge advantage. Now it is all about scouting, not about a willingness to spend your dollars in certain areas.
I bet the Rangers FO is PISSED...
Good thing about the new CBA: no canceled base ball games. Bad thing: just about everything else. Why u so idiotic, MLB?
Ultimate dream
Rangers win game 7 of 2012 World Series behind a CGS from Feliz
Not every squatch is a rocket scientist
I fixed for you ~
Rangers win game 7 of 2012 World Series
by lost in space on Nov 22, 2011 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
A Ninja...
Wouldn’t allow this to happen
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
Pressure? If there’s any pressure it’s the pressure pressurizing the panty cannon.
I don't think the Rangers...
are going to be willing to go over 5/70-75 for Wilson.
I’m also pretty sure he will get offers closer to 100 mil from other teams like the Marlins and Nats. So it comes down to signing with a team you know can win now and you’re familiar with, or going for the biggest deal and taking a chance on a team that may not be ready to win for a few years.
90% of the time the player’s going to go for the bigger deal, especially if there’s that big of a discrepancy in $, and it’s hard to blame them.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
I like this
JeffPassan Jeff Passan
Draft signing deadline moves from Aug. 15 to between July 12 and 18.
Tired of that stupid, pointless waiting period
finally something about the new CBA
that I can support completely.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Kind of unnecessary when you kill most above-slot deals.
by LiamP on Nov 22, 2011 12:40 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
good point
I’m pretty disappointed in everything in the new CBA related to amateur talent acquisition. The MLBPA is basically giving the finger to all amateurs.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Anyone know how to read it?
Does it get released or does Jeff Passan have a monopoly on this information?
Probably need to be a lawyer to understand it...
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I was trying to put it on a tee.
More post bar congratulations.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
do we think the nathan signing
has any bearing at all on the Rangers’ plan of action with regard to Yu? With Feliz moving, rotation looks pretty crowded.
Harrison: trade bait?
i have a feeling that a trade is coming down.....no idea exactly what but I'm pretty sure
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
if a trade comes with Harrison
I’d think it will be after a signing of someone like Yu
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
not sure Yu will post this year
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
I don't see any reason we'd trade a starter then
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
harry to the bullpenis then?
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
noooooo
We need to either trade him or keep him in our rotation.
I bet Matty has pretty good value on the trade market.
Derek Holland-2011 ALCS MVP
yeppers its either that or trade
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
assuming we signed CJ or Darvish
prolly want to trade
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
at this point, why would he go to the 'pen
Feliz, Ogando, Holland, Lewis, Harrison with Feldman as the long man spot starter. why would we trade Harrison without signing another starter that would be an upgrade over Harrison
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
sry i was assuming we either signed CJ or Darvish
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
sure, then I'd agree we could trade him
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
haha yea it would have helped if i added that info in
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
or Colby or Holland
I’m thinking Yu doesn’t post at this point, so I’ll worry about it once that happens.
I really doubt Holland would be traded for anything outside of a very very good pitcher (legit #1)
but I could see Colby being traded for a nice piece or a few prospects if we have a deal in place that would upgrade the “veteran” portion of the rotation ( for example, signing Oswalt).
Derek Holland-2011 ALCS MVP
Yu
So, does the Nathan signing and Feliz “promotion” imply the Rangers expect Yu won’t be posted?
I might be off-base, but I get the feeling Harrison is far more likely to be traded than Colby or Holland, and perhaps the only starter the Rangers would seriously discuss in a trade(Feldman, too, if he counts). Colby I don’t think they’d get much for, and Holland, Ogando and Feliz I doubt they trade for anything short of an “A” package.
by Alan Smithee on Nov 22, 2011 1:29 PM CST up reply actions
i think that the Rangers are positioning themselves in case they don't get anyone else
but if they do it’ll be a bonus.
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
feel like this could be a great spot to sell high on Harrison
I’ve never been crazy about his peripherals and for whatever reason I’m always expecting him to implode.
I think my ideal off-season at this point is getting Yu, trading Matty, having a rotation of Yu-Dutch-Ogando-Colbra-Happy with Feldman the longman/spot starter and Ramirez and Perez next in line should someone falter.
by Alan Smithee on Nov 22, 2011 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
you would rather have Yu than CJ?
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
I understand and respect the opposing argument
but yes.
Maybe Darvish is all hype but the upside is a legit #1 and a huge draw for attendance and TV ratings. Darvish could make the Rangers internationally identified the way the Red Sox and Yankees are.
That being said if C.J is brought back for a reasonable price I won’t be crushed or anything.
by Alan Smithee on Nov 22, 2011 1:53 PM CST up reply actions
just curious......i would like Darvish but I think the price is going to be too much
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
I think Yu is a long shot at this point
You have to get over the hurdle of him actually posting (and most signs point to the idea that he’s not posting).
Moreover, you have to outbid every other team in a blind-posting process. The Rangers have very little control in their ability to sign Yu, so most of your moves have to be made with the assumption that he’s not yours, imo
oh how soon we forget
We are talking about the Texas Rangers. They can never have enough starting pitching.
true enough
but if another starter is thrown into the mix, who’s out?
by Alan Smithee on Nov 22, 2011 1:30 PM CST up reply actions
.
BizballMaury Maury Brown
Inside MLB’s New 5-Year Labor Agreement j.mp/vf2L4T Here’s everything. Source MLB/MLBPA
by octoberty on Nov 22, 2011 12:52 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
No more trading for draft pick compensation mid-season
A. Only Players who have been with their Clubs for the entire season will be subject
to compensation.
Another thing that I think we all can appreciate
2. Drafted players may only sign Minor League contracts.
yes that for sure....awesome
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
Oh, I like this.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
woww
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
What?
Nice….
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Nov 22, 2011 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
Competitive balance lottery is weird.
A. For the first time, Clubs with the lowest revenues and in the smallest markets will
have an opportunity to obtain additional draft picks through a lottery.
B. The ten Clubs with the lowest revenues, and the ten Clubs in the smallest
markets, will be entered into a lottery for the six draft selections immediately
following the completion of the first round of the draft. A Club’s odds of winning
the lottery will be based on its prior season’s winning percentage.
C. The eligible Clubs that did not receive one of the six selections after the first
round, and all other payee Clubs under the Revenue Sharing Plan, will be
entered into a second lottery for the six picks immediately following the
completion of the second round of the draft. A Club’s odds of winning the
lottery will be based on its prior season’s winning percentage.
D. Picks awarded in the Competitive Balance Lottery may be assigned by a Club,
subject to certain restrictions.
It's just interesting because the provision is neutered by the overslot one.
Now they have more picks, and less money to spend per pick, no?
Ryan Braun wins MVP
Awesome
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
really?
how is that possible over Matt Kemp?
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
I know, kemp should have won..
They had no problems giving it to Kershaw when he was on a bad team…
whatever baseball.
The only reason Kemp had a higher WAR
is because of CF adjustment, and he is a subpar CF’er.
Braun was a better hitter and played equally inadequate defense, and his team went to the playoffs.
Braun's team went to the playoffs, but Kemp was as close as anybody
in recent memory to winning a triple crown. I don’t see how you can say Braun was better offensively.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Braun, also had Fielder and Weeks in that lineup
who plays in LA other than Kemp?
I love Braun, but Kemp was the MVP last year
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
His team was never, ever in contention while Braun's team was in it wire to wire...and won it.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
yea i have no problem w/ Braun winning it
great year tho by Kemp
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
who plays in the hitters park
if we are really comparing these players equally
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
If it's that close, you give it to the player whose team was better.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
By citing the triple crown
you are saying we should use average and RBI’s as primary indicators of who should win MVP?
so you're saying the fact that Kemp
was ahead in HRs, SBs, R, RBI, among these categories, that it has no bearing, but then you want to throw out WAR. What metric should we look at?
Kemp was the best player in the NL last year
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
To be clear
I’m not saying Kemp is a bad argument. There are plenty of reasons to think Kemp should be MVP. I just don’t think it’s as clear cut as you’re trying to make it, and I would have voted for Braun just barely.
Some voters aren't led around the nose by WAR.
Braun turned in a phenomenal performance on one of the best teams in baseball.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Aside from team performance
How was Braun better than Kemp? They are pretty equal in slash stats. Kemp has him in pretty much all the counting stats, partially because he played 11 more games.
Tell me one voter
who goes solely by WAR.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Dave Cameron has a good piece at fangraphs
about the new CBA in relation to marginal win value and free agent market prices.
Under the new system, having twice as many July buyers as sellers is likely to become the norm, and as such, I’d expect the cost of acquiring talent in-season to increase dramatically. We’re going to see supply decrease at the same time that demand increases, and the sheer lack of quantity of talent available to fill all the needs that will pop up after the season starts means that we’re likely to see shortage-driven buying.
We’ll likely see inflation in pricing for talent in the off-season as well, since present wins are now going to be relatively more valuable than they were previously, but I’d expect that the biggest change will be the price of talent mid-season. However, if MLB teams also come to expect that the price of wins is going to increase dramatically during the year, they may adjust their strategies by being more aggressive in upgrading their roster during the off-season, which could lead to further inflation in the price of acquiring talent during the winter.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Yeah, the wild cards certainly decreases the number of sellers
This is mitigated just a bit by the fact that there are a lot fewer players that are worth trading for solely because they net you a draft pick.
Good for Texas?
I’m suddenly more happy we signed Mazara, Guzman, and Martin.
Derek Holland-2011 ALCS MVP
Makes you wonder if they had an idea this would happen.
Defending Big D Check it out
Twitter
"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
What the hell? I replied to the other message.
Weird
Defending Big D Check it out
Twitter
"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
So will there be less HS players w/ football scholarships coaxed out of their commitment?
Derek Holland-2011 ALCS MVP
doubleheaders
d. Active Roster limits will be expanded to 26 for certain regular or split doubleheaders
Interesting.
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
cba
How did they avoid labor stoppage a la 94?
Never read anything about risk of lockout, and yet these are big changes.
Go Strangers.
That McMillan fella knows what's what
"Mike Young just didn’t do anything to capture the imagination of the people. He needs to focus on practicing on a lumpy field so when the ball jumps he don’t miss it. He made too many damn errors."
by Chewtoy123 on Nov 22, 2011 4:28 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Michael Young committed 8 errors in 2011...try again, dumbass
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 22, 2011 11:29 PM CST up reply actions
Only 8 errors, he's a great defender at 3 positions!
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
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