Why 2012 should be Josh Hamilton's last season with Texas
Josh Hamilton is among the best players to ever put on a Ranger uniform. Acquiring him from the Cincinnati Reds, in exchange for Edinson Volquez and Danny Ray Herrera, is one of the best moves Jon Daniels has made as the Rangers' g.m.
Hamilton's 2010 MVP season was probably the greatest season in Ranger history by a player not named Alex Rodriguez. He was instrumental in the Rangers having a surprising level of success in 2008, and after a poor 2009 campaign, has been a huge part in the Rangers getting to the World Series in 2010 and 2011.
And he's also someone who should be wearing a different uniform after the 2012 season.
First things first...let's take a look at Hamilton's performance in the majors:
| Year | Age | Tm | Lg | G | PA | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | SB | CS | BB | SO | TB | GDP | HBP | SH | SF | IBB | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1999 | 18 | TBD-min | Rk,A- | 72 | 327 | 308 | 56 | 96 | 23 | 4 | 10 | 55 | 18 | 4 | 14 | 57 | .312 | .340 | .510 | .850 | 157 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 3 | 0 | |
| 2000 | 19 | TBD-min | A | 96 | 423 | 391 | 62 | 118 | 23 | 3 | 13 | 61 | 14 | 6 | 27 | 71 | .302 | .348 | .476 | .823 | 186 | 5 | 2 | 0 | 3 | 3 | |
| 2001 | 20 | TBD-min | AA,A | 27 | 108 | 100 | 8 | 20 | 6 | 0 | 1 | 6 | 2 | 0 | 7 | 25 | .200 | .250 | .290 | .540 | 29 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 2 | |
| 2002 | 21 | TBD-min | A+ | 56 | 235 | 211 | 32 | 64 | 14 | 1 | 9 | 44 | 10 | 1 | 20 | 46 | .303 | .359 | .507 | .866 | 107 | 4 | 0 | 1 | 3 | 3 | |
| 2006 | 25 | TBD-min | A- | 15 | 55 | 50 | 7 | 13 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 5 | 0 | 1 | 5 | 11 | .260 | .327 | .360 | .687 | 18 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | |
| 2007 | 26 | CIN-min | AAA | 11 | 45 | 40 | 9 | 14 | 1 | 0 | 4 | 8 | 3 | 0 | 5 | 9 | .350 | .422 | .675 | 1.097 | 27 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | |
| 2007 | 26 | CIN | NL | 90 | 337 | 298 | 52 | 87 | 17 | 2 | 19 | 47 | 3 | 3 | 33 | 65 | .292 | .368 | .554 | .922 | 131 | 165 | 6 | 4 | 0 | 2 | 4 |
| 2008 | 27 | TEX | AL | 156 | 704 | 624 | 98 | 190 | 35 | 5 | 32 | 130 | 9 | 1 | 64 | 126 | .304 | .371 | .530 | .901 | 134 | 331 | 8 | 7 | 0 | 9 | 9 |
| 2009 | 28 | TEX-min | AAA,AA | 8 | 37 | 32 | 4 | 6 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 5 | 8 | .188 | .297 | .313 | .610 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | |
| 2009 | 28 | TEX | AL | 89 | 365 | 336 | 43 | 90 | 19 | 2 | 10 | 54 | 8 | 3 | 24 | 79 | .268 | .315 | .426 | .741 | 90 | 143 | 5 | 1 | 0 | 4 | 2 |
| 2010 | 29 | TEX | AL | 133 | 571 | 518 | 95 | 186 | 40 | 3 | 32 | 100 | 8 | 1 | 43 | 95 | .359 | .411 | .633 | 1.044 | 170 | 328 | 11 | 5 | 1 | 4 | 5 |
| 2011 | 30 | TEX-min | AAA,AA | 5 | 21 | 18 | 5 | 4 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 6 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 5 | .222 | .333 | .611 | .944 | 11 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | |
| 2011 | 30 | TEX | AL | 121 | 538 | 487 | 80 | 145 | 31 | 5 | 25 | 94 | 8 | 1 | 39 | 93 | .298 | .346 | .536 | .882 | 128 | 261 | 8 | 2 | 0 | 10 | 13 |
| 5 Seasons | 589 | 2515 | 2263 | 368 | 698 | 142 | 17 | 118 | 425 | 36 | 9 | 203 | 458 | .308 | .366 | .543 | .909 | 134 | 1228 | 38 | 19 | 1 | 29 | 33 | |||
| 162 Game Avg. | 162 | 692 | 622 | 101 | 192 | 39 | 5 | 32 | 117 | 10 | 2 | 56 | 126 | .308 | .366 | .543 | .909 | 134 | 338 | 10 | 5 | 0 | 8 | 9 | |||
Other than his 2009 season, a terrific player, just going off the raw numbers.
What about WAR? The table below shows Hamilton's fWAR and bWAR since 2007:
| Season | fWAR | bWAR |
| 2007 | 2.6 | 2.7 |
| 2008 | 4.1 | 5.4 |
| 2009 | 1.4 | 1.5 |
| 2010 | 8.5 | 7.0 |
| 2011 | 4.2 | 3.6 |
Hamilton's all over the map here. He was first in the A.L. among position players in fWAR in 2010, third in bWAR. He was also fourth in bWAR in 2008. 2009 was a lost year for him, so we can ignore that.
In 2011, however, Hamilton was just 25th in the A.L. in fWAR, 29th in the A.L. in bWAR. Even in 2008, Hamilton was just 17th in the A.L. in fWAR.
Don't like WAR? Think the defensive numbers are too variable? That's fine...we can use VORP instead. Hamilton was 19th in the A.L. in VORP in 2011, 8th in 2008. And if we use WARP (BP's version of WAR) instead of VORP, Hamilton checks in at 21st in the A.L. in 2008, 16th in 2011.
So no surprise there...Hamilton was a transcendent superstar in 2010, was terrible in 2009, and was a terrific player in 2008 and 2011, but probably not really an elite, superstar-level player in either of those two years. FanGraphs' value calculations have Hamilton as being worth $34.2 million in 2010, $18.9 million in 2011, and $18.6 million in 2008.
I think it is reasonable to believe that Hamilton is likely looking at getting a Jayson Werth-type contract after 2012 from someone. Hamilton will be entering his age 32 season in 2013, the first year of his new deal. Werth was entering his age 32 season in 2012, the first year of his new deal.
Werth got a 7 year, $126 million contract from the Nationals that's 18 million per year over the life of the deal for Werth's age 32-38 seasons. Hamilton is considered to be better than Werth, definitively has more fan appeal and cachet than Werth, and FanGraphs said that even in his two good but not-MVP-good seasons, he was worth at least $18 million per year. So give Hamilton $18 million for 6-7 years, lock him up long-term, let him spend much of the next decade mashing in the middle of the Rangers' lineup and retire a Ranger, and everyone is happy, right?
Sure...so long as Hamilton keeps performing like he did in 2008 and 2011. Is that a realistic assumption, though?
Some think it is. Some view Hamilton as someone who is incredibly talented, who has fought through adversity, who is the type of five tool player who should be expected to age well, assuming he stays healthy.
I disagree.
I asked Dan Szymborski of ESPN and BTF if he could run the ZiPS projections for Hamilton going forward, which Dan graciously agreed to do. Dan ran Hamilton's figures as both a left fielder and a center fielder. I'm using Hamilton's projections as a left fielder below, both because the numbers are pretty close either way, and because I think Hamilton will be playing left field if he were to stay with Texas:
| Year | BA | OBP | SLG | Games | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | K | OPS+ | DR | WAR | $/WAR | Value |
| 2012 | .289 | .342 | .497 | 126 | 499 | 70 | 144 | 29 | 3 | 23 | 87 | 41 | 99 | 117 | 7 | 3.7 | 4.7 | 17.6 |
| 2013 | .282 | .337 | .499 | 120 | 475 | 65 | 134 | 29 | 4 | 22 | 81 | 40 | 93 | 116 | 6 | 3.5 | 4.9 | 17.1 |
| 2014 | .279 | .333 | .477 | 117 | 463 | 61 | 129 | 27 | 4 | 19 | 76 | 38 | 86 | 109 | 6 | 2.9 | 5.1 | 15.0 |
| 2015 | .276 | .330 | .466 | 112 | 446 | 58 | 123 | 25 | 3 | 18 | 71 | 36 | 80 | 106 | 5 | 2.6 | 5.3 | 13.7 |
| 2016 | .273 | .324 | .450 | 103 | 411 | 51 | 112 | 22 | 3 | 15 | 63 | 31 | 69 | 100 | 5 | 2.1 | 5.5 | 11.6 |
| 2017 | .268 | .315 | .430 | 89 | 358 | 42 | 96 | 18 | 2 | 12 | 51 | 24 | 56 | 93 | 4 | 1.4 | 5.7 | 8.1 |
| 2018 | .260 | .299 | .403 | 67 | 273 | 30 | 71 | 13 | 1 | 8 | 37 | 16 | 39 | 82 | 3 | 0.7 | 5.9 | 4.3 |
| 2019 | .250 | .288 | .382 | 37 | 152 | 15 | 38 | 6 | 1 | 4 | 19 | 8 | 20 | 74 | 1 | 0.3 | 6.2 | 1.6 |
That give anyone else pause? When I was thinking about this, before getting the numbers from Dan, my thinking was that I'd offer Hamilton a 3 year, $51 million extension this offseason (since he's under contract for 2012 already, that would take him through 2015). If he took it, fine. If not, I'd let him play 2012 and explore his options in free agency.
Dan's numbers seem to suggest that even that 3 year, $51 million extension is overly generous.
I have no doubt that the ZiPS projection is going to elicit hostile reactions from people who think this is too negative. Only 23 homers next season? That's absurd, right? And not hitting .300 again in his career, when he hit .359 in 2010? Get your nose out of the statsheet and watch the games, geek!
Except that sort of performance isn't really out of line with what he's done during his career. Hamilton had only 25 home runs last season, and has never hit more than 32 in a season. ZiPS sees Hamilton's home run total dropping by just two between in 2011 and 2012, in basically the same number of at bats.
Moreover, Hamilton's .359 batting average in 2010 looks like one of the more extreme outlier seasons you will ever see from a player. Hamilton's batting averages in his other seasons in the majors have been .292, .304, .268, and .298. The .359 average was 55 points above what he's ever done in any other season, 51 points above his .308 career average.
The driver for that .359 average, it turns out, was a .390 BABIP in 2010. Hamilton's career BABIP is .338, and his career high BABIP other than in 2010 is the .333 BABIP in 2008.
What makes that .390 BABIP even more baffling is that Hamilton's line drive rate has been consistent throughout his career from 2007 through 2011, his line drive rate has only varied from a career high of 22% (in 2010) to a career low of 21% (in 2011). If you use the conventional "add .120 to the line drive rate" method for determining an expected BABIP, then you'd expect a .340 BABIP from Hamilton in 2010, rather than a .390 BABIP.
The fact that the 2010 BABIP is so high above expectations doesn't make Hamilton's 2010 season less valuable, but it does drive home the point that 2010 was an extreme outlier, the exception, not something we should reasonably expect Hamilton to duplicate going forward.
And it also makes ZiPS projected batting averages for Hamilton going forward seem very reasonable.
Dan notes that the biggest problem ZiPS has with Hamilton (and the biggest red flag that I think any front office would have vis-a-vis Hamilton) is the amount of time he's missed because of injuries.
Look at Hamilton's games played by season, since 2007: 90, 156, 89, 133, 121. Hamilton spent time on the d.l. in 2007 with gastroenteritis and with a sprained wrist. He essentially missed half of 2009 with a bruised rib cage and with an abdominal strain. Hamilton missed the end of the 2010 season with another bruised rib cage. He missed time early in 2011 with a broken shoulder, and was hampered late in the season and in the playoffs because of a sports hernia.
Bob Sturm pointed out back in 2005, in reference to the Rangers' curious (and ultimately foolish) decision to put Greg Colbrunn on the 40 man roster and count on him as a bench bat, that the problem with counting on injury-prone players is that they tend to get injured. Players also tend to get injured more often, not less often, as they age. My guess is that years of substance abuse would tend to make that tendency to get injured as you age more severe, rather than less severe. There is really no reason to expect Hamilton to give you more than 120 games per season going forward.
Injury history aside, there's other concerns about Hamilton as he ages. One of the things that I find worrisome about counting on Hamilton going forward is that he seems to come across as a bit of a headcase, needing things to be just so for him to be able to perform.
There's the day game problem, of course, which has been covered at length, and which has featured Hamilton blaming his inability to hit in the day time on his blue eyes. And Hamilton has hit poorly in the day, with a career .246/.316/.415 day line, including a .220/.302/.317 line in 2011. But his inability to hit in the day seems to be less about blue eyes and more about Hamilton, it seems.
We also have the comments about Hamilton being moved from the #4 spot in the lineup to the #3 spot, supposedly because Hamilton's uncomfortable hitting fourth, and prefers hitting third so that he knows he'll get an at bat in the first inning. There was also Craig Gentry moving to left field so that Hamilton could play center against Tampa Bay at one point in the ALDS, supposedly because Ron Washington didn't want to mess with Hamilton's "mental state" after having told him he'd play center in the playoffs. Little things, but taken all together, it makes me wonder if Hamilton isn't the ballplayer equivalent of a Ferrari...great when everything's right, but tempermental, and spending way too much time in the shop.
The other thing that really worries me about what Hamilton is going to do going forward is seeing how his plate discipline has deteriorated over the past several years. Here is Hamilton's swing percentage, swing percentage on pitches outside of the zone, percentage of pitches thrown to him in the strike zone and unintentional walk rate as a major leaguer:
| Year | Swing % | O-Swing % | Zone % | BB Rate (exc. IBB) |
| 2007 | 51.2% | 26.9% | 48.8% | 8.6% |
| 2008 | 55.5% | 34.7% | 45.3% | 7.8% |
| 2009 | 57.6% | 36.0% | 43.6% | 6.0% |
| 2010 | 55.3% | 37.3% | 41.3% | 6.6% |
| 2011 | 56.9% | 40.8% | 39.6% | 4.8% |
The trend is unmistakable...Hamilton has, as his career has progressed, swung at more pitches, and swung at more pitches outside of the strike zone. As a result, pitchers are throwing him fewer and fewer strikes, but despite seeing fewer strikes, his unintentional walk rate is dropping precipitously.
Hamilton had 39 walks last season, which makes the .298/.346 spread between his average and OBP look somewhat respectable. But 13 of those walks were intentional...Hamilton drew a whopping 26 unintentional walks in 538 plate appearances in 2011.
Let's put the above numbers in perspective...Hamilton's 40.8% swing percentage on pitches outside of the strike zone was the 10th highest in MLB last year. Ahead of him were Vladimir Guerrero (47.4%), Alfonso Soriano (45.6%), Miguel Olivo, Adam Jones, Alex Gonzalez, Mark Trumbo, Robinson Cano, Jeff Francoeur, and Delmon Young. The only other qualifying major leaguer above 38% was Yuniesky Betancourt, at 40.4%.
That's not the sort of company you want to be keeping, at least in 2011, if you are looking for elite offensive production.
Hamilton's 39.6% of pitches that he saw that were in the strike zone was 6th lowest in the majors, trailing Prince Fielder, Ryan Howard, Mike Stanton, Freddie Freeman, and Guerrero, with Mark Teixeira, Aubrey Huff, and Adrian Gonzalez also below 40%. Now, that's a much more impressive grouping of talent.
Here's the problem with this grouping, though...other than Guerrero, none of the others on that list swing at pitches outside of the strike zone as often as Hamilton. In fact, the only others on the list who swing at pitches outside of the strike zone even a third of the time are Freeman (36.8%) and Gonzalez (35.5%).
Guerrero and Hamilton are also the outliers when it comes to pitches within the strike zone that they chase...Hamilton and Vlad (80.5%) are the only ones above 80%. Freddie Freeman is at 76.4%, Ryan Howard is at 71.7%, and everyone else is at 70% or less.
Hamilton and Guerrero are birds of a feather. The rest of the guys on this list are, for the most part, selective. They don't see a ton of strikes, but they don't chase many balls out of the zone, and are relatively selective on the strikes they do swing at. Hamilton and Guerrero, though, are see-the-ball-chase-the-ball types.
And that's the thing that really scares me about Hamilton going forward. He's survived, and thrived, because of incredible natural talent and hand-eye coordination. He's thrived despite a terrible approach at the plate. Its worked for him, so far.
But Hamilton looks to me to be the type of player who, once his bat slows even a fractional amount, is going to slip quickly.
The two recent players who seem most similar to Hamilton, in terms of both approach and performance through age 30, are Vladimir Guerrero and Alfonso Soriano. All fast, athletic players who made up for a lack of plate discipline with a preternatural ability to make contact and drive the ball, wherever it might be pitched.
Here's Vlad's numbers from age 27 through age 31:
| Year | AVG | OBP | SLG | wRC+ |
| 2002 | .336 | .417 | .593 | 154 |
| 2003 | .330 | .426 | .586 | 152 |
| 2004 | .337 | .391 | .598 | 156 |
| 2005 | .317 | .394 | .565 | 151 |
| 2006 | .329 | .382 | .552 | 135 |
Here's Vlad's numbers from age 32 (Hamilton's first free agency year) through last season's age 36 campaign:
| Year | AVG | OBP | SLG | wRC+ |
| 2007 | .324 | .403 | .547 | 141 |
| 2008 | .303 | .365 | .521 | 128 |
| 2009 | .295 | .334 | .460 | 106 |
| 2010 | .300 | .345 | .496 | 119 |
| 2011 | .290 | .317 | .416 | 95 |
How about Alfonso Soriano? From age 27 through age 31:
| Year | AVG | OBP | SLG | wRC+ |
| 2003 | .290 | .338 | .525 | 128 |
| 2004 | .280 | .324 | .484 | 100 |
| 2005 | .268 | .309 | .512 | 114 |
| 2006 | .277 | .351 | .560 | 130 |
| 2007 | .299 | .337 | .560 | 123 |
And then from age 32 through last season's age 35 campaign:
| Year | AVG | OBP | SLG | wRC+ |
| 2008 | .280 | .344 | .532 | 121 |
| 2009 | .241 | .303 | .423 | 84 |
| 2010 | .258 | .322 | .496 | 113 |
| 2011 | .244 | .289 | .469 | 99 |
Hamilton is better than Soriano, not as good as Guerrero, but I suspect that his aging pattern will look similar. If he stays healthy (a huge if with him anyway), Hamilton will probably be solid in 2012, 2013, maybe 2014. But around 2014-15, I expect Hamilton to start sliding, and when the slide comes, it will be dramatic and ugly. Between injuries and skill deterioration, I expect Hamilton to be done as a regular by 2016.
Its going to be tough for the Rangers to let Hamilton walk. He's wildly popular, and the casual fans are already clamoring for the Rangers to go ahead and give him $20 million per year for the next half-dozen years. Letting C.J. Wilson walk is one thing...the team will catch some flak, sure, but it will blow over quick. Letting Josh Hamilton go, though, will be a whole different firestorm, one that will probably generate more anger among Rangers fans than anything since Pudge left a decade ago.
And maybe it won't happen. Maybe Hamilton will agree to a reasonable, short-term deal to stick around a few more years.
I don't expect it to happen, though. I expect some team looking to make a splash, wanting a middle of the order hitter and a big name that will galvanize the fans, to give Hamilton Jayson Werth money.
And when that happens, I sure as hell hope the Rangers have the sense to let him walk.
751 comments
|
11 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I am going to make some popcorn
BRB
At least I get to see the Rangers when they play the Twins now.
by TargetField on Nov 28, 2011 10:34 AM CST reply actions 5 recs
LOL
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
its soo fucking true, awesome
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
i guarantee you Josey thought "tl;dr" before drafting his first post.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
heh
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
couldn't resist
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
I'm not totally against this thinking
but I wonder what we could get in a trade for Josh this off season, and then put
some money in one of the big FA bats.
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
by SonnyKoufaxLSU on Nov 28, 2011 10:35 AM CST reply actions
Creates a hole
If we can package Hamilton with prospects for Jason Heyward, or someone like that—let’s do it.
But we’re in win-now mode.
The Rangers don't need the saved money that would come from that.
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
i want prince too.
Any more and you are getting a cease and desist from chromasters balls inc. - Chromaster
by Mr. Abe Froman on Nov 28, 2011 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
another player who might not age well
but I think you have a few years before the decline sets in.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Yep.
Szymborski’s ZIPS projection suggests that Hamilton could be worth 89 million over a 7-year free agent contract.
Fielder could be worth between 121 and 179 million over a 7-year free agent contract.
Of course, I don’t think there’s any chance Hamilton will get near Werth’s 7/129 contract.
Management has to bring in Prince
before Josh goes. Is there another big FA coming out next yr that is comparable to Josh or Prince?
Not since Kemp re-signed
Bourne is the best option, but we (knock on wood) shouldn’t need a CF
Ethier is an option, but I don’t think his contract will be any more attractive than what Hamilton is going to get
If we can bring up Martin
hopefully he would replace Josh’s speed and Prince would replace Josh’s bat. Kinda sucks to look at two different players replacing one.
look at the whole picture though
moreland + hamilton vs martin (and defense in CF) + prince
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 28, 2011 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
That's why replacing specific players doesn't make sense.
You put the biggest talent you can find in the place it makes the most sense.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
Prince Fielder
Big Talent or just Big
i keed i keed
Expectation is the root of all heartache. — William Shakespeare
by TheDutchOven on Nov 28, 2011 1:01 PM CST up reply actions
Someone has to replace the production that Josh
brings. I should have left out the part of replacing one players talent w/ two. I personally think Josh is on a decline or at least headed that way. I just would hate to see him go, but I too think that is the way things are headed.
He doesn't have to be replaced
If the Rangers can find a 2-3 WAR player to take his spot, combined with marginal improvement by other players, we can succeed without him.
I want to get better, though :)
I'm not trying to make him out to be Jacoby Ellsbury
but he has decent speed on the base paths and good range in the OF. I know he only stole eight bases this past yr…
Slow day today?
This is them most I’ve seen you post in over 3 months.
by lost in space on Nov 28, 2011 1:45 PM CST up reply actions
The last six weeks have been incredibly busy for me
Two lengthy trials and a lot of other work stuff going on.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 28, 2011 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
He has really good speed.
The problem is that it takes him a little while to get to full blast. But once he gets there, good God.
Also, like Adam said, He’s not a great CF’er
I think we're going innnnnnn.
I never said anything
about CF. There are plenty of ppl (that aren’t FA’s) I would take over him in CF.
Yep.
Exactly. If we’re going to let him go we better have some sort of offensive replacement.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
Im fine with letting Josh walk after 2012
But we would need someone else to fill those shoes both offensively and in the fan appeal angle. next years FA crop, now minus Kemp, doesn’t look all that great which is another reason to go sign Prince now. He fills both those holes that Josh will leave and the difference between keeping Josh and signing Prince will only be roughly 5-7 mil per year
that 5-7 mil difference
is also somewhat negated by the fact that Prince is never hurt and Josh is frequently hurt.
Life is pain - we've got to scrape the joy from it every chance we get.
I don't think Prince's contract will ever look like a genius signing
But he solves a lot of problems that we have going forward.
Mitch could even work on his LF’ing, if they believe so much in his bat, to replace Josh. His bat would play a lot better as a LF than 1b, no?
I think if the contract is structured right it could look like one
But it would also depend on Prince making a questionable decision and some other team making a bad decision somewhere later on.
I just really think he looks like the right age of a player to take an opt out, have 4 great years destroying people in RBiA and then go get another 8 yer deal from someone else and we part ways. I know that would be the best case scenario for us, but I’m just way too excited about the idea of Kinsler, Young, Hamilton, Fielder, Beltre, Cruz, Napoli, Andrus, CF as a lineup.
What do voluntary mean?
The dude abides.....
I certainly agree
Mitch has a very good arm for a COF and I get the feeling that he might play more LF/RF this year since Murphy is most likely gone. That scenario makes even more sense if Prince is signed.
Life is pain - we've got to scrape the joy from it every chance we get.
It's a downgrade in defense, but he'd be a cheap option to replace Josh
Would you rather Josh + Moreland or Moreland + Prince (+ a season of Josh + Prince)?
Moreland + Prince (+ a season of Josh + Prince)
If you are going to start spending some insane money, that would be the best way to do it.
Life is pain - we've got to scrape the joy from it every chance we get.
I'd rather DH Moreland in this case.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
I assumed we are talking about 2013 and onward,
in which case Young would only be here for 1 year.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
why is Murphy most likely gone this year?
Dallas Stars Examiner
used to be under name hinduplaya
by MayurP on Nov 28, 2011 11:39 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Most likely? Not sure.
But he is a candidate to be non-tendered because of his cost and role.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Yeah
Some team could view him as a starting OF and hes still cheap enough for them to give us something in return
Wont be much though
Hamilton's unique situation
is the only reason the Rangers might get him at a discount. Based on his past history, if he is comfortable here and feels he has a strong support system in place, he might stay for less money. Hell, he doesn’t even carry his own money around, so how much he makes might not matter as much to him.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 28, 2011 10:38 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
This has been my thinking all along.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Ryin A on Nov 28, 2011 10:54 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
The extension Josh signed wasn't all that "team-friendly" ... 2/29 or somesuch.
The Window to win a World Series is really snug right now…teams that lose 2 WS in a row don’t go back and we’re also about to lose CJ.
If we lose Josh, The Window closes.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
Back your bags, folks
it’s over… good run.
by Jobu. on Nov 28, 2011 11:03 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It sucks
when you try and use sarcasm to insult and spell stuff wrong…
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 28, 2011 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
x
If we lose Josh, The Window closes.
On the long list of stupid shit you’ve said, this goes to 11.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 28, 2011 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 19 recs
You're undervaluing Josh, Adam.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 11:09 AM CST up reply actions
You're overvaluing the impact of one player on a team
According to you, if Josh gets hurt in spring training and is out for the year, we should start selling off veterans and go into 100 loss rebuilding mode because the team can’t win without him.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 28, 2011 11:15 AM CST up reply actions
Those are your words. I never, ever said that.
It’s going to be tough to win at an elite level (95+ wins) in 2012 if we bring everybody back (including CJ). If they lost Josh to injury (and CJ to free agency), they’d scuffle to win more than 85 games.
You’re acting like 2012 is going to be exactly like 2011.
This was a dream season where so many things fell into place. To believe that’s going to be a constant when the vast majority of our players are aged 30-35 and we have exactly one very good player in the system aged 23-28…is naive.
I’ve said it over and over…this off-season is going to be the biggest challenge JD has faced.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
You said that last season too, right?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
by Brad on Nov 28, 2011 11:36 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Yes he did.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 28, 2011 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
Don't know...a Do-Gooder needs to go find that bottle of research.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
I really want you to answer if your wife knows how much you argue on the internet.
I mean… mine does. She rolls her eyes at it… I assume your wife does too. Kids might not… but when I think about the many hours you’ve spent for YEARS just bickering on the internet about Rangers baseball and your wife giving you the same eye roll my wife gives me it cracks me up.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
what a troll
Expectation is the root of all heartache. — William Shakespeare
by TheDutchOven on Nov 28, 2011 11:40 AM CST up reply actions
I honestly can't remember...it doesn't really matter
because this team is another year older, The Window closed a little bit more this past October and two of the most important contributors to the last two seasons are due to get paid.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
CJ is one
who is the other?
Expectation is the root of all heartache. — William Shakespeare
by TheDutchOven on Nov 28, 2011 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
I find it hard to believe
that you can supposedly remember the most trivial facts from baseball seasons in the 70’s and 80’s at the drop of a hat, but can’t seem to remember what you said about the Rangers last year…
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 28, 2011 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
Go find it...I'm not sure if I said it or not. If you find a quote, lets look at the context.
It was easy to see what the Rangers needs were going into 2011.
I think this off-season is much tougher than before because the temptation is to bring everybody back (AFTER ALL, WE WENT TO THE WORLD SERIES THE LAST TWO YEARS) when that’s the last thing you should do.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
Hmmm....
Who was the first person on the resign CJ campaign?
Expectation is the root of all heartache. — William Shakespeare
by TheDutchOven on Nov 28, 2011 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
I want both CJ & Josh back.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
But... But...
You just said
temptation is to bring everybody back (AFTER ALL, WE WENT TO THE WORLD SERIES THE LAST TWO YEARS) when that’s the last thing you should do.
I’m confused, isn’t bringing them both back bringing the same team back?
And Josh is signed for 2012.
Expectation is the root of all heartache. — William Shakespeare
by TheDutchOven on Nov 28, 2011 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
JD said that you can't bring the exact same team
back either otherwise because they become stale.
What JD needs to do is get more good to very good players aged 24-28.
How he gets there is why I keep saying this off-season is his biggest challenge.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 12:03 PM CST up reply actions
Not that you'd give him credit
and god forbid we see one sentence that whoever met with Nolan for 10 minutes.. then all credit would go to him.
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
by Mike E on Nov 28, 2011 12:05 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I credit Nolan with properly evaluating This Thing
during 2008 and turning the entire organization around in 2009.
JD has done anywhere from a very good to great job since the 2009 season ended.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 12:11 PM CST up reply actions
I love your arbitrary ages
Guys 24-28 are so easy to acquie right?
Give me some names of guys who fit into that age bracket who we should go after
Prince Fielder
Expectation is the root of all heartache. — William Shakespeare
by TheDutchOven on Nov 28, 2011 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
That's hardly 'easy'
Signing Fielder right now is going to give up just as much in future value as trading for one of the elite young players in the league…just value in a different form.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe
Trading away our prospects might afford the ability to give another huge contract in the future.
But then, you’re dependent on the availability of a FA becoming available to fill your needs.
If you sign the FA that fills your needs now, and save your prospects for later…. theree’s always a much larger pool of players from which to trade than to sign
Sure,
but using those future dollars might prohibit you from future moves…both trades and FA signings.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
True - on the trade front
But if you’re looking to trade for young, controllable talent—it;s less of an issue.
Also, it’s easier to convince billionaires to throw in some extra dough to afford a big time trade target,
than it is to conjure up some prospects.
Nah, they may be maganimous owners,
but they aren’t economic idiots.
The better argument here is that you back load the contract to more effectively take advantage of the coming TV deal.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
A lot of sports owners
are willing to act as “economic idiots” because of their egos and the competition of the thing.
A one-year $10M increase in payroll is such a small portion of their net worths, especially considering that it could lead to a return…
You can’t depend on this, but there’s always a chance.
Additionally, prospects are more valuable under this new system, imo, where you can’t guarantee an influx of talented players with big $$.
Fielder is only gonna cost you 5-7 mil more per year than Josh
And lenght will likely be similar (given Josh ialready under contract for 2012)
Yes,
the best argument for Fielder is that you are choosing him over Hamilton as the long term middle of the order power bat.
I’m just not convinced that the Rangers FO (as opposed to Washington) prefers to invest that much money in a proven power bat as opposed to trying to build a deeper, more balanced lineup.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think those are mutually exclusive
Because we have a huge quantity of high-ceiling prospects, and obviously would like to hold on to our top quality prospects,
I think we can use the David Perez’s of our system to acquire a balanced lineup for cheap
Not by definition, no,
but I don’t like projecting best case scenarios.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
How is that projecting best case scenario?
We’re talking about which assets to use and which to save to best maximize current talent and still have future maneuverability.
’splain, because I might be misunderstanding you.
Is that true?
Can’t buy amateur talent going forward like the past, and increasing ceiling of Rangers payroll?
How many of the Rangers blue chip prospects
came from (grossly) outspending others? Sure, Guzman and Mazara (and I guess Martin, though that seems a bit different) fall into that category, but Perez and Profar weren’t absurd bonuses and Olt and Ramirez weren’t exactly bonus babies, no?
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
Good points
We haven’t done it until recently. I think it’s nonetheless, more difficult to count on the ability to bring in young talent.
It's always a concern,
but I have more confidence in the Rangers than I do in all but a handful of teams.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
No, they're not easy to acquire.
That’s part of the reason I keep saying this is a very difficult off-season for JD.
If you looking for an organizational weakness, that’s ours.
Not talking about pitchers…I’m talking about every day players.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
You realize that
the Rangers had arguably the best collection of position players in the majors last year, right? And that 3 of it’s top 5 prospects are position players?
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
Only one though looks to be a "impact" bat
And that player is roughly 3 years away from the majors with a lot of hurdles and question marks along the way.
I dont think its wrong to say our positional player depth is our biggest issue. especially when you are talking about potential true impact players even remotely close to the majors
True,
but there are less holes to fill position player wise on the MLB team.
Next year’s team will feature all of the guys that last year’s historic lineup featured, with a chance at more sustainable production from CF.
Things get a bit more hairy in 2013, but they will still likely have the best lineup in the division with Kinsler, Beltre, Napoli, Young, Cruz, etc. Also, I think the chances of JD not adding a significant bat over the next 2 years, especially given the assumed losses here, are pretty small.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
Ok but who would that significant bat be?
Thats part of the problem. Any trade likely takes at least 1 if not 2 of those upper level minor league positional players out of the system.
And looking at the FA list for this and next years classes is uninspiring not to mention we will be going up against the Yankees and Red Sox next winter. And under the new CBA those teams especially will be playing with far more money than we have.
I just think this year sets up perfectly for us to make a huge splash, fill a rather significant need for 2012, and fill a huge need for 2013 and beyond
I hate the idea of a Fielder signing much less now than I did before,
but I’m still leery of the (long term) price.
Honestly, I’m not sure right now who that big bat is. But realize that elite bats can arise from strange places. Mike Napoli is the guy who comes to mind for the Rangers, but think about guys once/now viewed as elite hitters like David Ortiz, Jayson Werth, Jose Bautista, Josh Hamilton, etc.
While there are a select few hitters like Pujols who are on top every year, most guys are more variable. Given that, there’s a good argument to be made that you’re better off investing in a bunch of guys who could, but aren’t locks to be elite hitters than investing in one guy who is almost a lock to be one.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
That makes a lot of sense
But, it worries me that we could try for one of those guys, and he can fall short (probability says JD can’t be perfectly right in EVERY transaction he makes, right?)… and we might fall short of the playoffs.
We seemingly have the payroll to do so, and the perfect storm of circumstances that makes Prince a good move for the Rangers.
I think the contract will be bad, and will hurt at some point, if he doesn’t opt out. So it’s hard to knowingly accept the bad with the good.
"What JD needs to do is get more good to very good players aged 24-28."
Holy shit, do you think he knows? Can someone tell him? Get JD on the phone, we’ve got the answer right here!
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
You see...
This meme bugs me more than window is snug JW line of thinking. If this team has young players, improving players, the experience of playing in two world series can really help make them a better team. But you are of the mind…we must get better, we must not be stagnant, when this team was one strike away from winning the World Series.
The question becomes “How do you get beter,” and “Who do you replace to get better?”
The way you sustain a run of several years...especially
if you lose both CJ & Josh is to add more young players to the mix and not depend on those players presently aged 30-35 to become even better than they were in 2011.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
How old is CJ and Josh?
If both are in their 30s, and CJ hasn’t in particular shown the wear and tear in two starting season after bullpen years will impact on him, then the issue becomes age-related regression. I want CJ to come back, but not at $20 million per year for five years or longer.
I want Josh to come back if he is extended, or gets his batting mentality in line so he can actually be more selective at the plate. If Josh doesn’t do that, then he likely will regress. I hate talking about regression, but it does come into play at times, and it affects signing value.
Not only just being selective..
I would like Josh to decide whether he wants to be a contact, spray the ball hitter, or a badass, drive the ball 115 mph off the bat at every chance.
I think we're going innnnnnn.
I wouldn't change a thing with Josh right now.
He’s a badass.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I hope you understand why I'm not flailing away
at potential trade targets because I don’t know who JD considers to be a part of the 2013 core.
He’s going to need to exclude one of Elvis, Kinz or Profar at one point.
He may need to make a tough decision regarding Cruz.
What if Napoli wants more than VMart?
Could he try and sell high on Matty Ice or does he need to keep him because he may also lose Cobra after 2012?
There are too many variables to simply start stabbing at the dark.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
So if Josey Wales was GM, what would be the plan?
How would you answer those questions? And I strongly suspect Napoli does not expect more than V-Mart…
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
He won't have a year as good as this again
For one thing, he had a .344 BABIP…
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
It depends if the goal is short-term or
long-term.
I don’t think you can do both.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Best team possible for the next 2-3 years
Try to keep that window open for as long as possible.
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
I re-sign both Josh & CJ. I extend Napoli.
I then look to deal Nelson Cruz and perhaps Harrison and Profar for the best package of 2 24-28 year old players that fit our roster.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
That wouldn't be enough to get
two players in their 20’s. And do you have any specific players in mind?
i would only trade Profar in a package for Kershaw
that is all
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
Who? What positions?
I’m guessing first base and right field? But then you also put a hole in your roto by dealing Harrison.
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
No, I've signed CJ and Feliz is going to the roto.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Oh, true.
So a rotation of CJ, Holland, Colby, Feliz, Ogando? But then who do you trade for? Especially considering you’ve got a ton of money tied up long-term
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
You might be able to get Gardner
and Montero from the NY Yanks.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Doubt you'd be able to get both
Certainly wouldn’t mind having Gardner but I’m not sure I’d trade any of those three for him.
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
So you're bringing back the same cast
or are you trading somebody else?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
No, I don't mind trading for somebody
but trading Profar for Gardner is…. wow.
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
Don't forget about Leonys
Not that he’s better than Gardner, but he narrows the gap, I think
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
You're getting Montero as well.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I don't think the Yankees trade him
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
So why are the Yankees trading Montero again?
Their 2012 DH?
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
Hahahahahahahahahahaha.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
hahahahahahahah
oh man
you are on a roll today.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 28, 2011 3:43 PM CST up reply actions
xx
He’s going to need to exclude one of Elvis, Kinz or Profar at one point.
at some point, yes
but who knows if that point is in 3-4-5 years?
its not next year, that is for sure.
and napoli wont get more than vmart. period.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 28, 2011 3:43 PM CST up reply actions
Well...
On the pitching side that’s fairly well covered.
Holland, Harrison, Ogando, Feliz with Perez and Ramirez likely to make ML debuts in 2012 or 2013.
Losing CJ is less of something to replace with several talented young arms and much more on the way both close and far.
Positional talent is less clear cut. But I doubt JD just sits on his hands.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I don't think the Rangers like having to replace Josh
but the reality is they may have to do it. And someplace out there in baseballand is probably an outfielder that could play defense, provide pop, and some speed. I jsut don’t see a whole lot of it right now. It seems like the Rangers are strong on the infield for awhile. But that doesn’t mean JD couldn’t dig up someone.
Heh.
Regardless of if the Rangers stay the same, or “get better”, it’s really fucking hard to get to the WS. Going into next year, their goal, I’m sure, will be winning the WS. If they don’t, is the season a failure? I don’t believe so. If they make it to the playoffs, and give themselves a chance to advance, then they will have had a successful season.
I think we're going innnnnnn.
I agree that evaluating a baseball season...
is different for baseball than football. I think there are three realistic phases to a season:
1) Winning enough games to get into the playoffs
2) Winning the American League playoffs
3) Winning the World Series
The first level is great, much better than most. The second level is the top shelve of baseball.
And the third level would be amazing.
It’s pretty tough to be upset with a team that has played the best baseball in its history.
Exactly. It's disappointing to fall short two years in a row.
But to look back at the whole thing? How lucky are we to be able to witness a team be the class of the league for two years in a row?
I think we're going innnnnnn.
What should one do with that bottle of research?
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
C'mon now...
You told the world you went to a “wonderful school and made great grades.”
It shouldn’t be too tough for you.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
What should one do with that bottle of research?
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Sandusky yourself
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
makes sense
/Mitch Moreland
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
i totally do not want to do any work today.
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
Sure did.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
x
If they lost Josh to injury (and CJ to free agency), they’d scuffle to win more than 85 games.
Josey, before the 2009 season:
If Brandon McCarthy wins 17 games and everything else goes right, the 2009 Rangers will win 83 games.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 28, 2011 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
So you think everything is going to fall into place like it did this past year?
5 starters are going to make 157 starts?
Napoli and Kinsler are both going to have another career year?
Young will have another MVP-caliber year in 2012 as a 35 year old?
A 37 year old closer coming off TJ is going to work as a closer?
One of the other true juggernauts in the AL is going to shit their pants like Boston did in 2011?
Nobody in our own division is going to get better?
And while your throwing out old predictions why don’t you mention your original thoughts on the Danks Trade, whether or not CJ could become an effective starter or how well Chris Davis was going to hit in 2010?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
Or that
Boggs and Teagarden will be better players than Nelson Cruz. Oh wait, AJM didn’t say that. Who did…?
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 28, 2011 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
Didn't JD waive Cruz before the 2008 season?
He didn’t think much of Cruz either.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
Oh it was you who said that?
I couldn’t remember.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 28, 2011 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
Probably philkid
he was absolutely in love with Teagarden
No matter how much sense we used he would not let it go and believe that he fn sucks. He’s always looked mediocre at best.. Finally this year he has come to terms with it.
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
Baseball Prospectus said Teagarden was Mickey Tettleton with defensive chops.
They had me at “hello.”
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
No, they didn't
And yet, you keep saying it, as if it is the truth.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 28, 2011 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
Baseball Prospectus 2009 Re one Taylor Teagarden.
“If you really want to get dreamy and optimistic, think Mickey Tettleton with Gold Glove-level skills and you get the picture.”
Quote directly from the book.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 12:07 PM CST up reply actions
That isn't saying what you think it is saying.
It is saying Teagarden’s ceiling is Mickey Tettleton with GG skills.
It isn’t saying that he was that player. Obviously he didn’t reach his ceiling.
I said "Mickey Tettleton with defensive chops"
and BP said “Mickey Tettleton with Gold Glove-level skills.”
That’s the loophole you’re looking to use?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
Congratulations to Ruben Mateo on his Rookie of the Year award.
Baseball Prospectus 2000
he should be an excellent hitter—if overrated—even with a poor walk rate… If healthy in 2000, he’s the frontrunner for AL Rookie of the Year.
No...
You said BP said Teagarden was Mickey Tettleton with defensive chops.
That is not what they said. They said he could be Tettleton with defensive chops. They never said he was that player. They were talking about his celing as a player, something he obviously never reached.
I know they were talking about his
ceiling as a player…that’s what BP does with minor league prospects…that’s pretty fucking obvious / implied because the players haven’t done anything in The Show.
I was excited about TT because I liked what I saw (he killed it in September 2008) and what BP had to say about him.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
If you know that, then why did you say this?
Baseball Prospectus said Teagarden was Mickey Tettleton with defensive chops.
So you would have felt better if
I had said he was Mickey Tettleton with Gold Glove-level skills…got it.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
No.
You should have said what they said…which is Teagarden’s ceiling is Tettleton with defensive chops. Those are two very different things.
Maybe to you.
Just like BP, I was dreamy and thought it was okay to believe he could be Mickey Tettleton with defensive chops.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
You should be this optimistic about more players...
then again, maybe not.
by lost in space on Nov 28, 2011 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
You should have seen me after we
acquired Josh or how I felt when I saw Kinz in Spring Training back in 2005 (a full year before he went to The Show). I wouldn’t shut up about what I saw or how good they were going to be…called Hamilton a mix of Willie Davis and Willie McCovey.
I was sold on Nelson Cruz after I saw him at Spring Training in 2009.
I wasn’t sold on Elvis in 2009 but I was wrong.
If I see a dumbass like Judy Borbon or CDavis doing the same shit over and over, I’m not going to clap like a walrus just because they play for the Texas Rangers.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
xx
I’m not going to clap like a walrus just because they play for the Texas Rangers.
strange, you do this with michael young every single day.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 28, 2011 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Also loved what I saw from Michael
Young in Spring Training 2003 but the player who stole my heart that March was Mark Teixeira.
I loved me some Hank F back in the day as well….so you see, I have plenty of optimistic things to say about our young players….as long as they actually show me something.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
You have a very love/hate relationship with most players on the team.
I guess as long as they’re doing well, it’s hard for me to hate any of them.
by lost in space on Nov 28, 2011 1:07 PM CST up reply actions
And while we're busy railing on JW for
not being optimistic enough with our own players, I’m the lone voice in the forest screaming that we need to keep Josh.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
explain the "need"
in 3 sentences or less
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 28, 2011 1:31 PM CST up reply actions
still waiting mr. wales
or should i give up on it?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 28, 2011 3:44 PM CST up reply actions
I want to keep him...
But at 5/$80
He’s not worth more than that.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Surely you're not the only one that wants to keep him.
His track record for injuries is very concerning, and that’s about the only thing I have against signing him again.
by lost in space on Nov 28, 2011 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think we "need" to keep Josh.
If you take Josh out, the Rangers still have a very, very strong offense.
I think we're going innnnnnn.
He was out for most of April and May
and our offense shit all over itself.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
That was also when Naps wasn't playing damn near every day.
He was also performing fairly poorly when he was playing.
I think we're going innnnnnn.
do you understand how truly small
the sample size is for you to personally see in ST?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 28, 2011 1:07 PM CST up reply actions
of course he "killed it"
his BABIP for that month was .429!
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 28, 2011 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
It was Josey
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 28, 2011 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
Hence the extremely quick rebuttal
regarding JD.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 28, 2011 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think this team's fortunes rise or fall on C.J. Wilson and Josh Hamilton being here
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 28, 2011 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
You know that our best players are aged 30-35 and three of
those players had career years.
You also know that our starters made 157 of 162 starts.
You should know those things aren’t going to repeat in 2012 and there’s nobody coming up from the minors who is going to make an impact.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
Elvis, maybe Moreland a notch.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
Harrison?
Ogando (more consistency between 1st and 2nd halves)?
Lowe?
Kinsler/Beltre/Cruz having an excellent year?
Hamilton’s meh season?
Gentry?
I think Napoli had a career year, and is the only Ranger that has less than a 1% chance of improving.
The other 3 (+Hamilton) all COULD improve on their season. Beltre is probably the least likely to improve in the bunch, simply because he had such a great year (though improvement would be staying healthy).
I think you could hope that Beltre would be healthier.
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
I love that pic.
The anger sharks don’t swim in my head when I see this pic and have to relive the disappointing WS.
You could say the second statement about Beltre.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
Undisciplined hitter who is another year older.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
Josh Hamilton
Expectation is the root of all heartache. — William Shakespeare
by TheDutchOven on Nov 28, 2011 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
lolwut

arg, link here
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 28, 2011 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
Also Colby.
Probably not 2010 Colby, but it is certainly possible he does better than 2011 Home Run Derby Colby.
Well, hell
Fuck it then. I’m leaving. Wake me in 2015 when the team might be good again.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 28, 2011 12:14 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Why should dozens of posters leave
when only one needs to?
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
Would AJM prefer a bunch of yes men / fan boys
who fawn over every thought he has about the Rangers?
I’m kicking the ball around…it’s a baseball discussion about the thread AJM posted. Sure, a few people are dropping their gloves in front of me but I’m not engaging them. Nothing is personal from my side, you’re the one who pulled out the box of Kleenex.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
You're not kicking a ball around
You’re beating a dead horse.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
by Aqua on Nov 28, 2011 12:24 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Still waiting on names of players age 24-28 who you think this organization should target to acquire this offseason
bigsteve...I don't know...that's our glaring organizational
weakness and why I keep saying this is JD’s most challenging off-season to date.
It’s easy to say, well we scored more than 850+ runs and gave up less than 700…why do anything?
I’ve applauded JD for saying you can’t do that or the organization becomes stale.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
Give me names damnit
If you want to come on here and throw out such a vague statement like that I want specific names.
It's pointless because I don't know who
JD is willing to trade or who is available.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
He doesn't know who is available.
JW’s job isn’t to run the Rangers.
JW’s job is bitch about how the Rangers are run.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
by Brad on Nov 28, 2011 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Bullshit.
They’re run much better since Nolan Ryan became JD’s immediate superior.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
You're saying you don't bitch about moves?
You bitched about every move made in the year I’ve been on this site except for trading for Mike Adams.
Every other signing or trade has received criticism from you as being a bad move.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Simply not true.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 10:26 PM CST up reply actions
What moves other than Mike Adams did you not rip?
I know you did Torrealba, Beltre, Rhodes, Webb & Napoli.
Then Koji.
What other moves have their been?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I liked the trade for Francouer.
I wasn’t sure about Vlad but gave it the greenlight after seeing him in person at Spring Training.
I liked O’Day.
I was ultimately okay with the deal for PS Koufax.
I’ve given much praise for the Endy deal.
Koji…I was okay with the move at first but cautious as well…not a big fan of plate spinners and thought it was the kind of trade that could bite you in the ass.
Now would be a good time to go ahead and admit you were wrong.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 10:58 PM CST up reply actions
No... I wasn't here for those.
I’ve only been around for a year.
I said all the moves since I’ve been here.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Also...
Do you remember in the spring when you told me that Webb, Rhodes, Torrealba & Napoli were unlikely to give you 4 WAR?
You were almost right… Webb gave nothing, Rhodes negative value and Torrealba only a bit.
But dat Napoli… 5.6 all by himself. ;)
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
He good.
He also gonna be expen$ive.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 11:06 PM CST up reply actions
I think you're overestimating.
Though that’s usually safer than underestimating.
I don’t think his track record is long enough if we extend him this off season to warrant V-Mart money.
And if he really wants that it’s probably not a good idea to give it to him.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
If I'm his agent, the least I'm willing to
accept is the VMart Contract.
He was making nearly $ 6 million last year and then put up a career year.
Sorry, Adam…3/25 isn’t going to cut it.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 11:13 PM CST up reply actions
You didn't say you'd offer 3/25 to Napoli this off-season?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 11:36 PM CST up reply actions
Here we go...in reference to what you'd sign Napoli for this off-season.
I’d offer him 3 years, $25 million
Maybe a 4th year team option at $12 million with a $2 million buyout.
If that doesn’t do it, then I’d do a one year deal and re-evaluate after 2012.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 1, 2011 11:03 AM EDT
http://www.lonestarball.com/2011/11/1/2529726/tuesday-a-m-rangers-stuff
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 29, 2011 12:16 AM CST up reply actions
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 29, 2011 7:32 AM CST up reply actions
I'd kick the tires on BJ Upton.
I really like Brett Gardner, Bourjos, McCutcheon, Choo and Markakis.
I’m intrigued with Allen Craig if Pujols comes back and he doesn’t have a position.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I think we can mark McCutcheon off due to the fact it would cost everything in the world to trade for him
Upton: FA after 2012 so unless he signs a extension it wouldn’t help the cause
Gardner: Cant really see the Yanks being willing to deal him but I would be intruiged with the thought. 3 years of team control left
Bourjous: No thanks. We have a ML ready CF so no need for him IMO.
Choo: He’ll be 30 in July. 2 years of team control left. Coming off a bad year and was injured. Could be a decent target although he wouldn’t help us in the long term
Markakis: 3 years/ 42 mil left on deal with a option for 17.5 mil in 2015. 3 straight years of non-great OPS’s. Not great power. Hasn’t OPSed over 805 since signing extension. Probably could be had if we took on his contract but I’d rather let Josh walk, extend Cruz through 2014 with a 2015 option (cheaper than Markakis would be) and sign Prince
Thanks for giving names at least athough I dont agree with most of them you listed
you dont agree with them
mainly because 2 are fairly close to untouchable
1 isnt very good
1 is injured
and 1 cant hit.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 28, 2011 3:45 PM CST up reply actions
That's EVERY organization's glaring weakness.
You’ve identified the single-biggest problem every organization in baseball has all the time. Finding elite players before or in their primes is the goal of every professional sports team period, not just baseball.
That’s why it’s such a dumb thing to get upset at the Rangers about.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
by Aqua on Nov 28, 2011 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I'm not upset with the Rangers but if you
want to believe This Thing can have sustained success beyond 2012 if they lose both CJ & Josh, we’re going to need more players aged 24-28 who are anywhere from good to great.
Expecting everybody to do what they did in 2013 what they did in 2011 and seeing greater success sans CJ & Josh than they ever accomplished previously is painfully naive.
My hope is that JD gets this and from his comments after the season ended, he may.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure he understands the goal of every professional organization ever.
I’m about 137% sure he gets it.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
by Aqua on Nov 28, 2011 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Can this post say anything less?
Expectation is the root of all heartache. — William Shakespeare
by TheDutchOven on Nov 28, 2011 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
Nothing wrong with being critical, with good analysis
Making absolutist statements one year after another, predicting Rangers failure and bemoaning our dumb GMs moves, is biased, stupid, pointless, and baiting.
Moreover, you don’t consider anyone else’s logic. The first view you take on an issue is the last view (until the facts incontrovertibly state otherwise**)
**Exception: JD’s 2007 and 2008 performance
"bemoaning our dumb GMs moves...."
I’ve said over and over that JD did very well after 2009.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
I believe you hated on the following moves:
Signing Colby
Not signing Dunn, VMart, or any other FA early in the off-season
Not re-signing Lee
Signing Beltre
Trading for Napoli
Basically, all the things that led to our WS’s appearances
by Jobu. on Nov 28, 2011 12:34 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Nope.
Thought Francisco was too valuable.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
Hated it.
Why would Scioscia get rid of someone that could help him at catcher?
Scioscia knows catchers, after all.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
The bullpen was in shambles.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
And Frank Francisco would have done nothing to address it.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
Frankie Francisco wouldn't have made a difference
Tommy Hunter is what killed the bullpen.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Hah
Basically, all the things that led to our WS’s appearances
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
I thought you disapproved or were above this back n forth?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
Signing Beltre apparently means we're not
going to be able to afford CJ or Josh.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
Being able to afford them...
But deciding they aren’t worth the money are two different things.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
by Brad on Nov 28, 2011 12:40 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
more recs needed here
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
OH YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
by Aqua on Nov 28, 2011 12:40 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
As serious as he ever is...
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
Can I be the JW
of ODB? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease?
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 28, 2011 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
You can come over whenever you like.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
Have you got more than 5 responses from an article yet?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
Is there a way I can answer this
that will cause you to stay here?
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
xx

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 28, 2011 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
Have you had more than 5 original thoughts today?
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
You know better than this.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
based on?
zero logic.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 28, 2011 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I KNEW THIS WOULD BE COMING, SOONER OR LATER. FIGMENT OF YOUR MOTHERFUCKING IMAGINATION, JOSEY.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I'm not saying that either...what I keep saying is that JD
has an enormous challenge in front of him if he wants This Thing to have sustained success.
Cutting CJ & Josh loose for 4 draft picks isn’t going to help us in 2013.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
how do you know?
Cutting CJ & Josh loose for 4 draft picks isn’t going to help us in 2013.
how could you possibly know this?
no, really. how?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 28, 2011 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
Don't count on it Adam
By Josey’s timeline it’ll be another 30-40 yrs. This organization is performing WAY above their heads right now…
"Nobody coming up from the minors who is going to make an impact."
You follow our prospects about as well as you do Texas A&M recruiting, so how do you know that?
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
by Aqua on Nov 28, 2011 12:24 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Josey is known for his horrible predictions
I tune in at the start of each year to get a good laugh at what ridiculous, obviously incorrect prediction he has for us next.
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
by Mike E on Nov 28, 2011 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This year for example:
AL West: A’s (Wrong)
AL Central: White Sox (Wrong)
AL East: Red Sox (Wrong)
Picked the Yankees to win the WC, so he got one AL team right.
NL West: Giants (Wrong)
NL Central: Brewers (Right)
NL East: Braves (Wrong) and picked the Phillies to finish 3rd
W.S Braves vs. Red Sox, neither team made the post season.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 28, 2011 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
I believe had Detroit winning the WC.
I didn’t have the Giants winning the NL West.
I thought the Giants would take a step back…lightning in a bottle teams like they threw together in 2011 do that.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
Well you didn't have the DBacks so....
NL West (wrong)
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 28, 2011 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
Who had the Dbacks?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
That's not the point.
The point is you blow your trumpet, scream for everyone to gather round and listen to your predictions, and than you get 2 of 8 teams right and both your W.S. participants miss the post season entirely.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 28, 2011 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
Tech lost
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
by Mike E on Nov 28, 2011 11:09 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It was expected.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 11:09 AM CST up reply actions
New CFB post up
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 28, 2011 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
I look forward to this coming up in another "I was on the fence" discussion like the one we had the other day.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
by Aqua on Nov 28, 2011 11:13 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
what if he blows out his knee next year
is the window still closed or open?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 28, 2011 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
I think AJM made a pretty compelling case about why he could get Werth money
I don’t think he does, bc I think most teams immediately thought the Werth contract was absurd (and maybe Nats are starting to realize that, themselves).
I think he gets 5/90-100, though.
I'm not sure he gets 5 guaranteed years,
but it may be an easily achievable 5-6 non-guaranteed years.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:03 PM CST up reply actions
support system gone
I jinxed the Rangers on 13 April 2011
by TagDon'tTweet on Nov 28, 2011 2:31 PM CST up reply actions
I gotta feeling
JD agrees with you. I’d do a 3yr extension and expect what he has done the past 3 years.
Cruz is also up.
Do you let him walk, too? Where have all the powers gone? Can’t many of (obviously not all) the concerns for Josh be applied to Nelly, too?
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
Cruz isn't a FA until after 2013
Hes a guy I approach with a 3 year deal right now which only buys out 1 FA year
My bad, I kept thinking they both walked after this season.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
hmmmm
Wondering out loud. If JD does try to extend him and they can’t get a deal done be the end of ST, do you trade him? Trade him in July or just be happy with a draft pick?
Take the pick for sure
At least I get to see the Rangers when they play the Twins now.
by TargetField on Nov 28, 2011 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
This is supposed to be a World Series contender
Why would you trade one of your best players at the end of spring training, or in July?
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 28, 2011 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
A lot of Rangers fans don't know how to think like a WS contender.
Can’t really blame them.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
If you know for a fact that you're not going to sign Josh, you need to strongly consider trading
him when his value is at it’s highest.
Somebody who is truly realistic about This Thing and is more interested in the long-term would give it heavy consideration for the right package.
That somebody has to have the brains and the stones to acknowledge that teams that go to the World Series two years in a row and come up short usually have quite the hangover the following year.
I don’t want to trade him…I want him here for the next 7-8 years but if you know he’s gone after this year, you don’t take two motherfucking picks for him.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
So the odds are we won't go to the WS next year
Likewise for every other team in the league.
Thus, we should go into sell-mode? What the what?!
I'm the one who wants to keep Josh long-term.
If you know you’re not going to do that, you need to start thinking about who you want to be here from 2013-2015.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
If our team might be slightly worse for 2013-2015....
then we should give up on 2012, despite having one of the best rosters in baseball?
What the what?!?
You're not giving up on 2012 if you trade Josh for the right talent that is
ready to play in The Show right now…not two fucking draft picks that won’t be here until 2015, if they can even play.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
If you trade Hamilton, here's what you'll get
(a) and equally talented player with only 1 year left
or
(b) a much less talented player (or conversely, a prospect) with multiple years left.
Please identify the major-league ready talen that Josh Hamilton will fetch in a trade this offseason.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Don't know who's available, Tiny.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
6'5" 275 lbs (I'm not buying 260) = "Tiny"
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
You're also not saying any of this in my physical presence.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
No big deal, you were just blessed with "big bones."
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
You're the GM. Who do you call on first?
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Nope.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Paul Molitor used to spend a lot of time on the DL when he was younger and
also had a pretty bad coke habit in the late 70s / early 80s but somehow cobbled together an .858 OPS (with 225 hits) as a 39 year old.
Dave Parker nearly snorted up his career but cleaned up and could still contribute at age 39…same with Chili Davis.
I think the notion that Josh Hamilton is more susceptible to injury because he abused drugs when he was younger is a load of bullshit.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
How about the plate discipline issues?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
"Plate discipline issues"?
He has a career OBP of .366.
Try again.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
Of course not.
Josey doesn’t understand the concept. He sees .366 career OBP and that is enough for him. He doesn’t care how he got there.
Josh Hamilton is similar to Young, Beltre, and Cruz in that his OBP is driven by a high batting average. Josey doesn’t understand that if these guys stop hitting at a high average, they start putting up terrible OBP’s just like Cruz did this year. It is the same problem.
Haha, read the article, champ
I guess you can assume they will keep IBB’ing him.
How many IBB’s did Molitor receive late in his career?
In 2011
Hamilton in almost the exact same number of PA had exactly one more unintentional walk than Adrian Beltre.
And Hamilton swings at everything as Adam showed in the article you didn’t read above.
Hamilton is as undisciplined as they come.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I expected Josh to be much more selective and hit mistakes this year
He hit a few mistakes, but at one time he was the leading swinger at first pitches, and that’s a pattern pitchers can take advantage of. It is what messed me up on his projections, thinking he would have a higher walk rate, and a little higher slugging percentage. Becoming a more selective hitter is not the easiest thing in the world for someone in their 30’s to do.
Also... even if you leave the drugs out of it...
He’s still very injury prone… maybe the drugs are part of that… maybe they aren’t. But regardless of WHY he is injury prone… he IS in fact injury prone.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
About as bullshit as your apparent belief that Prince Fielder is definitely more susceptible to injury.
More bullshit, actually.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
He believes that? Ha...
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
Josh is susceptiable to injuries because he has a track record that says so.
He misses 20+ games a season over average. Plenty of track record to show that is only going to get worse as he ages. When his hands start slowing down I think you can see Josh crater really fast.
What do voluntary mean?
The dude abides.....
You have anything to back that up besides this one example?
I think the notion that Josh Hamilton is more susceptible to injury because he abused drugs when he was younger is a load of bullshit.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
Molitor, Parker, Davis.
That’s three examples.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
Chili Davis played a total of 39 innings in the field after age 30
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 28, 2011 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
With beans or without?
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Dear Rangers, Make me forget about 2010.......
by matthewbschultz83 on Nov 28, 2011 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Criminally under-recd
"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11
by hornedfrogs45 on Nov 29, 2011 12:34 AM CST up reply actions
TINYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY sample size
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 28, 2011 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
3 guys that did coke but also had the chance to do roids
Same with Raines.
Football can go to hell. The Rangers aren't ready for football season and neither am I.
by WyoRanger on Nov 28, 2011 3:46 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
FYI
davis (purple) vs molitor (green) vs hamilton (orange) in OPS

in bb/K:

in wOBA:

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 28, 2011 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
Some people I know (friends, family, etc) are surprised at how ready I am for him to walk
You gotta do what’s best for the team.
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Nov 28, 2011 10:48 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Great article
Lays it out very nicely.
Hamilton is injury prone and undisciplined as a hitter.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Even the most casual observer must be a little bit concerned by how he lusts for the first pitch.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
Not really.
He has a career OPS of 1182 when swinging at the first pitch.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
No
He has a career OPS of 1182 when putting the first pitch in play.
That’s not the same thing as swinging at the first pitch.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 28, 2011 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
And when he puts the first pitch in play, he has a slugging % of .768 (Barry Bonds career slug% was .607).
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 11:00 AM CST up reply actions
.715
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
How often does he swing and miss at the first pitch?
I’m not even sure that’s available anywhere… but I have a PitchFX database for 2011… I’ll be able to tell you later today.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
B/R and Fangraphs doesn't appear to give you this
unless I’m missing something
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
Anecdotally...
Bonds did not miss many pitches, and was amazingly selective in the latter half of his career. In a certain sense they Bond’s shouldn’t even be compared with Josh because they had two entirely different approaches at the plate. Bonds new what he wanted to swing at, and wouldn’t swing at it on the first pitch or in any non-two strike count if it wasn’t in his hitting zone. Josh swings at anything he sees first pitch, and a few that he apparently only thinks he sees.
I found the hitting stats to be very probative
Basically confirms what my eyes were telling me which is he swings at a ton of balls. He has enough strength and coordination to succeed now but if he slows a bit he’s in trouble.
This is out on a limb but Hammy, as a player, reminds me Camanitti.
Football can go to hell. The Rangers aren't ready for football season and neither am I.
by WyoRanger on Nov 28, 2011 3:52 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
All that needs to be said...
" Get your nose out of the statsheet and watch the games, geek! "
Not...sure...if serious.....
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Nov 28, 2011 2:26 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah..I remember this guy......
He’s serious…..
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Nov 28, 2011 2:31 PM CST up reply actions
I trust stats much more than the vaunted "eye-ball test".....
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Nov 28, 2011 2:34 PM CST up reply actions
right types and wrong types?
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
depends on whose eyes
but not ours save for maybe The Professor.
give me stats over our eyes or at least be willing to admit the biases that are inherent to the “eye-ball test” from fans like us.
by elvis1isking on Nov 28, 2011 4:36 PM CST up reply actions
Yup. Information and facts can suck a fat one
Football can go to hell. The Rangers aren't ready for football season and neither am I.
by WyoRanger on Nov 28, 2011 4:08 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Will the team worry about alienating the fanbase though?
I know that Hamilton will probably never earn another MVP, and in the long run it’s probably best for him to go, but letting go of one of the most recognizable faces on the club may hurt a lot in the short term. I know winning heals all wounds, but this will really hurt the Rangers if they trade him or just let him walk.
The best thing for the Rangers to do would be to offer him reasonable money. I’m not that great with contract figures, but maybe the team should offer something like 4/45. If he takes it, you can get a few more years of production without too much harm. If he turns it down, you tell the fans that you tried and wish him the best elsewhere.
I'm not sure they can get Napoli for 4/45...no way Josh signs that.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 11:03 AM CST up reply actions
Hamilton and the Rangers won't part ways if its 4/45
The problem is its more like 4/60 as a starting place I bet. For Hamilton I think you start looking at 15 a year. 3/45 is probably about the dead minimum and I think I would do that. Its just getting too much above that where you have to start saying no I don’t think its worth the risk.
What do voluntary mean?
The dude abides.....
See, I think that Simpson Money™ might allow the team to do something like that.
3/45 would be reasonable for me, and if ownership is looking to increase payroll, that could be part of it. Then again, the other problem becomes evident when Cruz, Napoli and Kinsler start going up on their contracts.
by Perfect Zero on Nov 28, 2011 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
Why on earth would he sign a 3 year deal at $15 million per year?
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 28, 2011 11:08 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think he would.
I think you have to start looking at 4 years, after next year, and 15 is the starting place, probably more like 17-18 as the finishing point. Just not worth it. Of course that’s what you just spent several thousand words saying.
What do voluntary mean?
The dude abides.....
Alienating the fan base?
They tried their damnedest to deal Michael Young last offseason.
If the team wins, the fans will be happy.
Teams that don’t win are the ones that have to worry about keeping the fans happy by overpaying for “fan favorites.”
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 28, 2011 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
Yep
see New England Patriots. They will cut dudes in a heartbeat, but the fans keep coming because they keep winning.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 28, 2011 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
As a Pats fan
It’s actually a good thing to the majority of the fanbase. From what I’ve seen, and I feel the same way, the fact that the team won’t let anybody stand in between the team and winning is a boon to the franchise.
Belicheck would cut his own mother for an extra win.
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
I'm not sure that's always true.
It’s true when they are winning. It becomes one of the complaints when they are losing.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
Well, yeah, that's obviously a part of it.
Had the Pats nosedived last year after trading Moss, of course it would be about how Belicheck’s ego is bigger than the team and how he’s lost it.
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
Can;t wait to see what happens when its time for Brady to go
Dallas Stars Examiner
used to be under name hinduplaya
Ryan Mallet will be inducted into the NFL HOF in 2032, obvs.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
The Pats know and embrace the tactic of getting
rid of someone one year too early rather than one year too late….Josh would fall into this category for me.
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Nov 28, 2011 2:43 PM CST up reply actions
Hamilton's as much the face as the Face is...
and the prudent thing would be to let him walk, or trade him. I think the team’s in great shape that they could take the PR hit.
But how much money does Hamilton need? His family’s built a big house, and they like it here… If the Rangers offer something below market, does he take it?
Hamilton is the rare type of player that might actually do a hometown discount
What do voluntary mean?
The dude abides.....
The correct answer is
as much as they can get.
What do voluntary mean?
The dude abides.....
I obviously have noooo idea what Josh is thinking
But he has to have realized at some point, how much money he’s made, and how much he should have made, at this point in his career.
I wonder if that bugs him at all, and he’ll consequently chase the big contract.
I still don't see it.
He is an addict. He doesn’t even handle his own money. If he feels his support system is strong here and the offer is reasonable, he’ll stay.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 28, 2011 11:30 AM CST up reply actions
Houses can be sold.
He won’t take below market in his one chance to strike it rich.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
He's already rich. But I get it.
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
Then he'll have a nice place to live in the off-season and when he retires.
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
I'm not sure that's true.
He’s popular with fans, but I don’t think he does as good of a job with the media as Face does.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, the same "media" that was torching Young in the post-season halfway thru the ALCS or Jeff Sullivan, Jeff Passan and Joe Poz?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
local media
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
Local media was all up his halfway thru the ALCS as well.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
all up his ass
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
Same here....I'm even resigned to it happening....
This team would rue the day it signed Hamilton to a deal over 4 years…..if he’s fine with signing for 3 or 4 years, fine, but he probably won’t do that.
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Nov 28, 2011 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
How would moving Hamilton to DH change the analysis?
If we assume for argument’s sake that DH’ing Hamilton would keep Hamilton healthy (and happy), would the assumed increase in games played offset the loss in defensive value (by moving to DH) and the assumed decline in bat speed and plate discipline as Hamilton ages?
Everyone is always against DH'ing
meh.
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
Hamilton has a stated distaste for DHing,
though I’m not sure how that would change as he aged. Still, the defensive penalty for switch to DH is pretty severe.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
Plus he's regarded as pretty good in the field by moSt
There’s no way he moves just to save his health..they’d never be able to sell that to him. Plus his personal desire not to DH.
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
Nice work Adam
Prince anyone? That is the one way this can be a smooth transition. Can’t replace him with Kemp next year, what other options are available?
I think anything over a 3/$45 would be a huge mistake. I honestly don’t think he would even be healthy enough to make that contract worthwhile. He has spent two seasons on the dl for nearly half the season, and significant dl time in all seasons.
Expectation is the root of all heartache. — William Shakespeare
I wonder about Prince on a 6-8 year deal with a player opt out at 4.
I think I would do that type of deal and see if you can get someone else to pay for his decline years and hope to set it up and do it again.
What do voluntary mean?
The dude abides.....
Yep, I think JD could poker face the entire time, like he'd re-up Prince if he opts out
Then DOESN’T. Ninja
The impression I get
is that JD is more concerned about pitching right now.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
Certainly,
Just because we haven’t seen a lot of smoke yet doesn’t mean Yu should think JD prefers a Fielder over a pitcher.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
Sneaky pet.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
Yeah, possibly, but I will never give up on the hope of a Prince signing until he signs somewhere else.
Fuck, I want Yu and Fielder both.
It could happen. Somehow…
Eh,
I have more fun dreaming about getting Yu and CJ and then trading for LoMo.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 11:49 AM CST up reply actions
So are most young hitters.
They do get traded occasionally, however…
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
Is there any study...
On how a former drug user’s body deteriorates compared to a non-drug user at this age? I realize that would be somewhat hard to assess, especially athletically, but it would be interesting to see if any study shows a realistic time frame of Hamilton’s career span.
Hard to do and ultimately not needed in this case.
Josh already misses games. He is in his prime years. As he ages the body will become more susceptible to injuries, thats the normal mode for every single player I’ve ever heard of.
What do voluntary mean?
The dude abides.....
Nope.
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
Not that I know of.
The whole area is subject to much debate. I wouldn’t take the absence of data as proof that there is nothing to be concerned about.
I gave it a cursory look a while back and the most solid data seemed to revolve around drug abusers reduced immune system…which immediately makes me think back to Hamilton needing to be hospitalized for pneumonia or some such.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
How am I the first to rec this post?
Very well done, AJM.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 11:30 AM CST reply actions
I never really rec articles.
But yes.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
yeah
rec’ing is so 2010.
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
by Mike E on Nov 28, 2011 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Better a chump than a fairy.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
Its a good article for sure
I like when Adam posts stuff like this… but this one makes me sad. Its hard to recommend an article that says we shouldn’t keep Josh.
You can see that it's time for a player to move on
and still appreciate what he’s meant to the team. See: Byrd, Marlon.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
Well, it would have been pretty nice to have Byrd for that contract
as it turns out (unless it would have prohibited other acquisitions, but who knows)
Given the budget at the time...
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
Hahahaha...that's a good one.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
I can, yes.
The only Ranger jersey I own is CJ’s, but it is probably going to be cost prohibitive to keep him around. Great pitcher, great person. I guess I just hope Josh is one of those guys who takes a discount for the team. His injuries are worrisome, but seems to me that his are caused by himself taking risks, not a weak body. He crashes into walls and slides headfirst into home, it isn’t as if he pulls his hammy rounding first a few times a year.
But then you have to ask yourself
if he can change his style and how much his value changes from changing it.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:11 PM CST up reply actions
I'm on mobile
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Nov 28, 2011 1:15 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Also...
Personally, I would offer Josh a Beltre type deal.
5/$80 with an option for a 6th year if he has enough PA.
I don’t think he’d take it, but I think you could get that level of value out of him.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I'm not sure if this was discussed earlier, but
do you get the impression that Hamilton and his agent want him to be paid like an MVP going forward? I felt like before his MVP year, most of his talk was about how happy he was to be doing well…but after the MVP, his comments seemed to change. This may just be my interpretation.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
He commented during last off season that he had to think of guys coming after him.
That the deal was for more than just him… but other players in the future and precedent it sets.
The union has talked to him and told him that he can’t take too much of a discount.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Fuck the Union.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
/NotBlackFrancis
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I agree
His comments are backed by a certain pompousness. Ultimately, I believe he will push for a large contract because his agent is advising him to do so.
Expectation is the root of all heartache. — William Shakespeare
by TheDutchOven on Nov 28, 2011 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
Of the situation.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
Yep something has changed and I think he will largely leave it uyp to his agent..
and we all know what that means. i can see him giving us a discount but not a huge one, he will want security and that means yrs not to mention this is his only time to strike it rich.
I think 5 is too many
His sports hernia is more concerning than previous injuries since it is a wear and tear/body breaking down injury. Different than breaking a shoulder.
Football can go to hell. The Rangers aren't ready for football season and neither am I.
by WyoRanger on Nov 28, 2011 4:14 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I think that's pretty much where I would top out for him
There’s a good chance you waste some money there, but its a lot better than the 100+ million that it will likely take to sign him if he doesn’t give the Rangers a discount.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
So
Say the Rangers don’t get Pujols or Fielder, which seems unlikely to me, anyway.
Then say Hamilton is gone after next year.
Does that put the Rangers in a position somewhat close to “we must buy the best hitter available”? Cruz and Young will be at an age where counting on middle of the order production would be pretty foolish, and it’s not unreasonable to think Kinsler and Napoli will start to show decline from positional wear and tear, either. Plus, for the moment, the two best hitting prodpects are blocked at the major league level.
A lot can happen in a year but I feel like this could quickly become very average. Back in pre-WS days the fear I had was that though the Rangers had great positional talent in the majors and great pitching talent in the minors, by the time the latter arrived the former would be too old.
by Alan Smithee on Nov 28, 2011 11:58 AM CST via mobile reply actions
That should read
“a very average lineup”. Phone typing.
by Alan Smithee on Nov 28, 2011 12:00 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Young will be in the middle of the order for the rest of his time here
so no use acting like that’ll change even if it is foolish.
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
Greinke should help
and we’ll be all pitching!
I like offense though.. I’m sure it’ll work out.. it always seems to on that end.
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
The Rangers offense could drop off from 2011
and still be quite good.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
Josh and first pitches in 2011
Ball 177 32.8% Called Strike 96 17.8% Foul 93 17.3% Swinging Strike 74 13.7% In play, out(s) 45 8.3% In play, no out 24 4.5% In play, run(s) 15 2.8% Intent Ball 13 2.4% Pitchout 2 0.4%
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I've got some work to do and it will take me a bit...
But later I’ll figure out his slash line when he swings at the first pitch.
Including what eventually happened when he swung and missed or fouled a ball off.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I love Yu too
But let’s try and stay ontopic
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Nov 28, 2011 1:11 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
You took an oath as a writer for LSB.
Work is not nearly as important as slash lines, st1ck.
by lost in space on Nov 28, 2011 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
I didn't take an oath.
But I do swear a lot…
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
something like 46% of the time
he swung at the first pitch? Good lord.
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 28, 2011 2:28 PM CST up reply actions
Five years from today, AJM will make a 'toldjaso' This Day in LSB History post.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
And we'll be wondering who the heck "________" is
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Nov 28, 2011 1:10 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
also
kinsler/molitor/hamilton and wOBA:

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Texas HAS GOT to re-sign Josh...for my 2 boys!
They will cry for days if Josh leaves after next year. Me, I’d cry for several hours.
For us, Josh is a lot more than the numbers. I know there is risk given his fragility and age; but he is a transcendent player that only comes along once in a blue moon. I want ALL of the historic things he accomplishes to be done in a Rangers jersey.
by James Welch on Nov 28, 2011 12:48 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
even though there is a chance he never accomplishes another historic thing ever again?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 28, 2011 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
I actually thought that was JW after a quick glance at his username
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Nov 28, 2011 1:08 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Did you read the post?
He had a transcendent season and probably has transcendent talent, but he is not a transcendent player.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Nov 28, 2011 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
this should be an edit at the bottom of the post.
tl;dr: Josh Hamilton had a transcendent season and probably has transcendent talent, but he is not a transcendental player.
/GB04
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 28, 2011 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
He's certainly no pi or e
/math joke
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
Math jokes aren't very funny...
regardless if you’re math guy or not.
by lost in space on Nov 28, 2011 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
Some of them are
That one was decidedly not
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
I used to have 2 awesome math shirts

and one that said, “Let’s talk about (in math signs) the derivative of e^x”
I guess that is TBD at this point. 2010 was transcendent, the HR Derby was transcendent.
I think there will be many more moments where he will do something amazing. The ceiling is so high for how good he can be when healthy.
by James Welch on Nov 28, 2011 11:51 PM CST up reply actions
Are you the one that put up the video of your kid crying when there was talk of Young being traded?
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
No, but my youngest would have cried for sure.
I guess that is what I get for making my sons watch every Rangers game since they were born.
by James Welch on Nov 28, 2011 11:39 PM CST up reply actions
AJM, this is one of your best posts ever IMHO.
Great job on the logic, stats and thoughtful point of view.
You can only be young once but can be immature forever!
Great post...
I wish there was some good discussion about it here. Actually, I’m sure there probably is a little between all the trolling/stupidity. I’m just not sure it’s worth sifting through to find.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
you're not missing anything
AJM said all that needed to be said on the subject in the post itself.
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
Yeah, but it's a good way for him to shoehorn an insult at me.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
i'm not gonna get into anything w/ you today.
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
injuries
we simply have to find more time for him at DH if we are to sign him to any sort of extension. the broken arm in’11 and the rib cage injury in ‘09 i can almost ignore. it’s the nagging wear and tear injuries and most significantly the knee pain he has each season are of more concern, imo. i don’t think he goes full rusty greer on us though. not until they start fusing vertebrae….
MLBTR
Agent Scott Boras has pared down Prince Fielder’s sales pitch binder but still has 70 pages worth, he tells Morosi. Morosi says Fielder’s suitors are believed to be the Cubs, Nationals, Rangers, and Mariners.
70 pages, lol
Better have some large charts, or I expect JD to drop a:
by Jobu. on Nov 28, 2011 1:28 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
That's not that many suitors.
I’d really like to not have Prince on the Mariners.
Nationals or Cubs sounds much better to me.
Or Rangers… I’m fine with Rangers.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I'd be worried about the Cubs more
but I just don’t see Theo giving Prince a huge contract when the Cubs aren’t going to be that good for another 3 years (at least).
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
I don't give a shit about the Cubs getting better though.
I don’t want to face Fielder in a Mariner uniform 18 times a year for the next 7 years.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
No I get that completely
I meant I’d worry about the Cubs in terms of competing with them to sign Fielder. I don’t care about how good they are either.
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
Yeah, but I don't think the Rangers are legitimately pursuing him.
I would be rather shocked if we signed him.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I'd be surprised, but I'm starting to come around on the reasoning, actually.
Especially since we can’t spend a ton on international signings now
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
You really wouldn't face him
you’d IBB him to face Justin Smoak 5 times a game.
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
The more I think about the new CBA
the more I am starting to come around to the Prince talks, as long as we’re not talking about a 180-200 million dollar contract.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Fantastic gif
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
It really is.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
What is it?
It’s blocked for me at work.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Darth Vader dancing in the middle of about 8 Storm Troopers bobbing their heads and pointing at him.
It’s must to look at when you get home.
by lost in space on Nov 28, 2011 4:40 PM CST up reply actions
I've got to stop reading LSB in the campus computer labs.
I see stuff like this, and I burst out laughing. It’s embarrassing.
I can't stand people who are intolerant of other people's taste in music or people who like Nickelback.
I love Hamilton, and I think my view on the matter is in line with a lot of people here.
He is, when healthy, an absolutely fantastic ball player. Not many players can affect the game in as many ways as he can. Having said that, he is also one of the more maddening players at the plate that the Rangers have. He has such natural ability that he should be the hardest out on the team. The stats listed in the original post are extremely worrisome, and one of the reasons why he isn’t as dangerous as he could be.
I believe the Rangers should decide, first, whether or not the injury risk is too great to offer him a long-term contract. Secondly, does he project as a player that will age gracefully enough to be worth the type of contract he’ll probably get. (My guess is no, he won’t.) Finally, will a contract given to him jeopardize the Rangers ability to pay other players, or go after pieces to help the team in the future. If it does, then they should let him walk. I don’t believe a sense of “loyalty” should be shown to any player or organization. The Rangers should do everything they can to ensure they can put the best product on the field, while Josh should do everything he can to ensure the well-being of his family for the rest of their lives.
tl;dr
Reader’s Digest Version: I trust in JD, and I think he will do the correct thing, regardless of what the fans or papers want. I think he will be gone after 2012.
I think we're going innnnnnn.
TL;DR !!!
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
I got 3 sentences into this
and felt I knew what the rest of it was going to say.
I can't stand people who are intolerant of other people's taste in music or people who like Nickelback.
per EG
Johnny Narron hired as brewers ML hitting coach
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Nov 28, 2011 2:12 PM CST reply actions
this was also josh hamiltons shadow.
does that mean he was the guy that followed him everywhere for support?
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Nov 28, 2011 2:13 PM CST up reply actions
Was it he or the other Narron brother
who was Hamilton’s traveling partner?
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
according to grant.. it was hamiltons heterosexual life mate
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Nov 28, 2011 2:13 PM CST up reply actions
Could be an interesting development. It's sure weird that the Rangers would let Narron go given his duties as Hamilton's handler.
Greinke for Hamilton, straight up. Which team gets the better end of that deal?
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
Rangers
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
This is already listed on Brewer's page.
http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/team/coaches.jsp?c_id=mil
If Narron is truly leaving without Hamilton in tow, good for him. Otherwise, I will gladly take Greinke over Hamilton going into next year.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
Great post AJM and as much as I would miss Josh in the lineup, I trust this FO...
I would see why the Rangers would make the hard decision to let him go but as others have stated, I’m worried about our future productivity when it comes to offense.
Cruz is up in 2013, ditto Kinsler, Naps and Josh could be gone after next year. Who do we have coming up in our minors that can possible replace that or come close, and from what I hear the FA market won’t have that kind of firepower, Kemp has been locked up. I’m sure we can lock up one or two of the above but that still leaves a huge deficit.
I guess, while I’m NOT on the Fielder bandwagon I’m starting to wonder if the Ranger could be possibly thinking that way. And if they do that whether there could be some friction in the lockeroom this yr because they arent stupid, they would most likely know this would mean Josh isnt coming back.
Sigh I don’t know, winning will cure mostly everything though but you’re right there will be some backlash, face maybe the face of this franchise but Josh is far away the most popular. The Rangers have better have their PR ducks in a row when/if this happens, most of us would understand. Even my offline bb fan brother has mentioned similar things in baseball discussions.
Trust in the FO is required after 2 AL championships.
AJM does a great job pointed out the flaws of keeping everyone and expecting the same or better results. To plan on things to stay the same is to plan on failing.
I feel for JD and the front office as staying at the top is a different challenge than getting to the top. They are facing some very tough questions that have to be answered. I am hoping that the FO makes more positive moves (Teixiera trade, Volquez/Hamilton trade and Lewis FA signing) than negative moves (Danks trade, Eaton trade and Webb FA signing).
The front office has to make a lot of decisions and not all of them are going to have positive outcomes. I trust in the FO will continue the trend of more good than bad decisions.
You can only be young once but can be immature forever!
Thing is those bad moves
came in the beginning. I trust JD way more now than I ever did. I was calling for him to go a couple of yrs ago.
I was right there with you
screaming to get rid of JD early on, He has won me over !
You can only be young once but can be immature forever!
It is not a huge negative but was a gamble that did not pay off.
How you doing today?
You can only be young once but can be immature forever!
busy as hell
our main printer is down at work and so everyone was forwarding stuff to me to print off for them since I have a printer at my computer.
Then im dealing with trying to get companies to come out and quote me on replacing my heating/ac unit which went out last night.
Sounds like another day in paradise...;)
I am trying to figure out who to lay-off if our sales do not pick up. Some days I just hate my job.
Good luck with the AC/Heater and printer problems.
You can only be young once but can be immature forever!
Too late. Jerry Narron is going to the Brewers as hitting coach, and he'll take Hamilton with him.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
.
jcrasnick Jerry Crasnick
#Rangers checked on Broxton before signing Joe Nathan, & #Rockies discussed him as an option if they trade Huston Street.
Broxton is a head case.
I don’t want him.
"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin
by utlonghorn24 on Nov 28, 2011 5:33 PM CST up reply actions
The one utlonghorn24 just made.
You heard it hear first.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Not to mention his shoulder might be fucked.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
easy now
after 2008 the team wanted to sign him long term and i said there was no need. let him play out and since he had a few years left. i took a beating on that i think
Bachman/Beck 2012
I wish I were the 1%
lots said that back then
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
just have to take my word
i don’t even think i could find it if i looked.
Bachman/Beck 2012
I wish I were the 1%
Fair enough
I’m never for extending older players early. I don’t remember feeling like I was in the minority back then.
OK. I'm claiming it. No longer a what-if, no longer a half-chuckle quasi-joke.
Rangers are going to acquire Greinke for Hamilton. They have had a long running interest in Greinke.
It’s going down.
The money makes sense for both sides. The need makes sense for both sides, if the Rangers are not sold on Hamilton long term (and I have no idea if they are or aren’t).
This might be as foolish of a post as I will put on LSB, but I just feel it, and I am excited. I know Melvin recently said he would explore an extension with Greinke. Maybe that conversation ended quickly.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
Who plays LF?
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
Murphy?
Sign a Francouer type platoon partner
Sign Fielder which offsets the offensive loss and then you can let greinke walk after 2012 and replace him in the rotation with NeRa/Perez
I know you and I both want them to (and I have a sneaking suspicion that the Rangers want to, too)
But I don’t think they’re going to sign Fielder. Even if it makes sense.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
Hey bigsteve...
While I douibt there is another texiera for the pick of a good farm system deal to be made. I still wonder what Hamilton could fetch in terms of prospects right now. Any ideas?
You can only be young once but can be immature forever!
its really tough to guess at
I actually like the idea of a Greinke/Hamilton swap
MIL needs to replace Fielders production and have enough pitching (relatively speaking) to afford to lose Greinke.
The Rangers could replace Hamiltons production with Fielder, shore up the rotation, and if Greinke is ok with a extension then we are set for a long time
I don't see the Rangers replacing Hamilton this offseason.
I see a lineup of
Kinsler
Andrus
Beltre
Young
Napoli
Cruz
Murphy/platoon
Moreland
Gentry/platoon (Borbon?)
The argument about Milwaukee having enough pitching depth would apply to Rangers’ offense.
However, I’m also not anywhere capable of thinking like a ninja, and I would assume that JD would find a better LF replacement than I can imagine through a trade of a middle-rotation starter from the “excess” created by Greinke, Holland, Harrison, Colby, Ogando, Feliz.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
If we signed Fielder, I would be ok with that trade.
Though I don’t want to move Feliz back to the bullpen after having just told him he would start.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
I am hating work right now.
It keeps me from posting here and I prefer to be posting.
You can only be young once but can be immature forever!
Murphy, DeJusus platoon would work. Some type of platoon arrangement most likely.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
sad penis
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
I'm sure JD would come up with a better solution.
That’s all I could think of without spending a good chunk of time digging and digging around for obscure trade possibilities.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
Beltran is available.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
I wouldn't give him 3 years
which is what he’s probably going to be looking for. Unless the money’s right, the max I would go would be a 2 year deal with a team option for the 3rd year, but there’s probably no way he’d take that
Dallas Stars Examiner
used to be under name hinduplaya
gentry!
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 28, 2011 3:58 PM CST up reply actions
If you're going to play Gentry somewhere, play him in CF.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
I like the boldness of your comment.
You can only be young once but can be immature forever!
nah they would let him walk then to trade him, now that would be a PR nightmare..
But forget that who replaces him, this team is still a WR contender, we’re going for it next year.
But its interesting though.
I don't think this would be all that much of a PR nightmare, especially with Greinke coming back.
But, it ain’t happenin’ even though I’m saying it is.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
Dammit!
Evan_P_Grant Evan Grant
Rangers and Hamilton have already talked about possibility of Narron leaving; will meet again to discuss support system for 2012.
Unless… They mean his new support system in Milwaukee.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
ah well. My dream of Greinke as a Ranger died long ago. It was nice to have the dream back for a few minutes.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
Greinke is sort of a cocksucker, no?
I mean, I’d love to have him, but I think he’d quickly become my least favorite Ranger.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Besides. It wouldn't really make that much sense for the Brewers who need to get back
players with controllable years, it would seem.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
I wouldn't mind that trade
couple with, say, a Beltran signing
I just think it’s too rare for teams to trade superstar-for-superstar. Just doesn’t happen.
One last gasp before Marcum and Hamilton leave in FA?
With the new rule about no draft pick compensation unless a guy is on your roster all year they figure to be one of the teams affected most by it given that greinke and Marcum are FAs at the end of the year and would be very attractive trade targets at midseason under the old rules
I was thinking maybe Hamilton would be easier to extend (cheaper that is) than either
Greinke or Fielder.
I still think the smart way to trade Greinke (who, as you point out, should be traded before the season so the new team gets all of the benefits) is to get multiple controllable players, just at least one higher upside player, which would be one more than the Royals got.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
Narron... Kicking the dead horse that is my dream...
“I think Josh has a good support system in place there now. I think he will be fine. Josh knows he can call me if ever he feels the need to and I’ll be there for him. It’s time for him to go on his own path and for me to go on my own path.”
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
It's a coy play. Melvin and JD have an agreement in place the second JD finds a replacement.
The dream lives!
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
In the days to come
Evan Grant tweets Melvin and Hamilton had lunch together
TR discusses a rumor that Greinke bought a Dallas house last week.
But when do we get to track the planes?
"There's no money in triples!" -- C.J. Wilson, 2010
That was so fun. I look forward to doing it again.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
bigsteve is already on it.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
Thanks dude. That perked up my day.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
Well I already did so
still Idk if we’ll see Hamilton traded even though it makes sense to do so.
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
Fielder
Correct me if I’m wrong (especially those of you who have been around LSB much longer than I), but is Fielder the first potential FA acquisition for which there seems to be an overwhelming consensus in favor on this board?
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
And before the "depends on the price" chorus begins anew...
The consensus seems to be built around the assumption that it’ll take somewhere in between 7/180 and 8/200 to get the deal done.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I'm not in favor of Fielder, but there is a vocal group around here that is.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
I like the idea of having the DH position filled with flexibility.
Fielder is a wreck in the field already.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
He'd be the DH in 2014...the year after Young is done.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
He's a terrible 1B right now.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
hmmm
since 09 he has a 2.9 UZR/150 FYI young had 4 this year
he has 97 OOZ plays (so its not like he is a statue) -
hes a -15 in DRS (young was -5 this year)
is he good? no
is he the worst 1b in baseball? no
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 28, 2011 5:28 PM CST up reply actions
Well, at least two, while FACE is here.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
I wouldn't say there is an overwhelming consensus at that price.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
Someone should do a fucking poll for fuck's sake. Fuck.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
You need to read Rakoff's mem. op. denying the SEC/Citi consent judgment.
Wow.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Did that just come down?
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
Yep.
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/SECCITI11282011.pdf
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Can someone explain this in English?
"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11
by hornedfrogs45 on Nov 28, 2011 4:04 PM CST up reply actions
Judge Rakoff
Doesn’t like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I don't want him at 7/180.
I suspect he weighs more than the 275 he’s listed at and he has never, ever been able to keep weight off when he needed to when he was young…it doesn’t get easier after you turn 30.
His knees are going to be shot from carrying that much lard by his early 30s and he can’t play defense. No, no, no.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
but you get like 5 yrs before he starts to break down
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
What would you sign him for?
I don’t want him at 7/180 either.
I’d go 7/144 as a max and and player out clause after 3 years that I pray he takes.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
but he probably won't opt out
at that amount.
There’s a better chance he does at Match’s amount – especially if he has 3 really, really good years (which he probaby will in our ballpark).
by elvis1isking on Nov 28, 2011 4:43 PM CST up reply actions
Sure, I just don't think that gets him signed
If JD gets him for 7/144 with a 3 yr opt out, I will cry of happiness.
me either
but I hate the 7 or 8 year contract.
by elvis1isking on Nov 28, 2011 4:46 PM CST up reply actions
7 for 140ish seems reasonable
Football can go to hell. The Rangers aren't ready for football season and neither am I.
by WyoRanger on Nov 28, 2011 4:29 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
isn't he a semi-vegetarian now?
that could help with the weight, mayhaps.
I can't stand people who are intolerant of other people's taste in music or people who like Nickelback.
sweet potato pie is vegetarian
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Hmm I dont think everybody is in favor..
I’m starting to come around to it, but the price scares me and he’s not a defensive wiz at 1st either to make me overlook it.
No consensus now
I really want him even at 7 for 180. He’s young, never injured and would kill in that park. The very very vocal minority bitches about his weight which has never caused him problems in the past.
Football can go to hell. The Rangers aren't ready for football season and neither am I.
by WyoRanger on Nov 28, 2011 4:27 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
BTW, I agree with AJM that the Rangers should trade Hamilton this offseason.
As if that wasn’t obvious enough from my dream of seeing a Greinke-Hamilton swap dashed to pieces moments after I had revived the thought of Greinke as a Ranger.
I don’t really know how it could be possible to trade him, though, considering the support system the new team would need to put in place and the time it would take for that to get developed well.
Damn, the Brewers really need Hamilton.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
My impression is that AJM wants to keep Hamiliton this year and let him go for draft picks.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
heh. Well, I guess I should've read the whole thing.
tl;dr
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
That's what I would do.
I think the Major League production you get from Hamilton in 2012 is unlikely to be replaced through any trade unless it’s a Hamilton for Greinke (which I’m all for).
The team is going to contend (again) in 2012 and I want that 2012 production from Josh. Whatever prospects we got are not likely to give us value in 2012 and while they would be more ML ready than two first rounders… I’d rather have the two first rounders.
Because if we do let Josh walk… that’s $17m of salary we can use to get someone else. It’s not like that money is going back in the owners pockets.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Who do you sign in 2013 to replace Josh?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Not sure who's available.
Maybe you trade for someone who has a high salary.
Everyone things in motion.
All goes in the Roster Construction Blender.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
What speed do you set that bad boy to?
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Plus
players randomly/unexpectedly become available for trade.
Did anybody at the start of the year expect Ubaldo to be made available (and then traded?)
i tell the truth; i lie a lot
Joey Votto will be one year away from FA after 2012.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Like the stop gap Adrian Gonzalez was for Boston?
Oh wait… they insisted on being able to extend before the did the trade (or at least be satisfied it would happen)
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Prince will be 2 years younger
won’t require prospects
And we’d get him this year, to combine with Hamilton, et al
He kinda sucked this year
And cost a assload in trade to get
Not a great example of how to work this situation
point was anyone can come up on the trade block
CLE paid a shitload in terms of prospects for a mediocre player who sucked even more after being traded for
Are you saying that should be what we bet on happening down the road with the rangers?
He's saying players unexpectedly become available
Use Dan Haren as an example, if it makes you feel better
So we need to hope someone who fills a position of need becomes available
still not exactly making me all warm and fuzzy
You'd rather trade Josh for prospects...
And hope they actually turn into good ML talent?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I'm not sure it is...
My point is that I’d rather have Josh’s production in 2012 and then use the freed up money else where in 2013. I don’t know where… but I’m sure they’ll figure out a way to get talent, either a FA or trade.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Than trade Josh for prospects.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
No, I want to sign him to an extension.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
What's your max offer on Prince Fielder.
Surely there’s some number you’d sign him for… it can be unrealistic.
For example… if he was willing to accept 1 year for $5m you’d do that right?
So what would your max offer be on a hitter like him with “big bones”?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I look at Prince as an elite DH...5/55 or so.
He’s going to get $ 100 million more than that so I wouldn’t sign him.
Look at his dad…and Prince has much bigger bones than his dad had when he was 27. His dad blew up in his early 30s.
Now if you wanna talk about Pujols, that’s a game-changer.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Really?
I think Ortiz ends up around 2/32 or 3/45 at most.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Well, I suppose I went overboard
with “probably” but I think it’s quite possible – at least I personally see a bidding war which pushes him around that range.
As for what I think he “should” get? Yeah, probably around what you set…which would still make 5/55 bizarre going on the assumption that he’s just an “elite DH”.
i tell the truth; i lie a lot
Well... on the point to Cecil
He was good through 32… and Prince is better and I think he could go till 34 like Mo Vaughn did. 35 was when Vaughn lost it and 33 was when Cecil did.
What’s your max offer on Pujols?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
How much do you think Pujols weighs?
Also, how often was Cecil injured compared to Prince at this point in his career?
elite DH?
using your shitty logic, i think pujols is going to start sucking. his dad didnt even make the pros! that is the only way we can know how well he will do!
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 29, 2011 7:34 AM CST up reply actions
I would rather sign Prince Fielder right now
Use last years playoff revenue to pay Josh’s 2012 salary, then let Josh walk and get whatever the new rules dictate
if someone comes up for trade in 2013 then we have the luxury of not being desperate to make a deal because Prince has essentially replaced Hamilton
I don't understand why you are insistent
that the playoff revenue be earmarked for Hamilton’s salary? It’s all in the same bucket, right? Why does it matter
You cant expect playoff revenue
At least the Rangers cant
Whatever they made last year is extra money for this year so what better way to allocate it than on a one year deal which Hamilton essentially is
What's the difference between that
and the Rangers putting the $$ into a bank account, and then stating that they are spending $X on payroll next year?
I want to sign Prince too.
But I don’t think it’s going to happen.
If we don’t sign Prince does that change what we should do with Josh?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Nope
But our team’s better :)
It’s likely to not happen, because JD is shrewd, and not one to outbid at all costs on a player.
I think there’s a chance, though, because I don’t think he’ll have to do this for Prince. The market seems timid for him.
Not saying
to hope for the unexpected.
But that should temper the idea that everything absolutely needs to be put in place beforehand
i tell the truth; i lie a lot
He's irreplaceable. You reshape the team when you move Hamilton.
Still. I think it’s been a while since FACE was asked to change positions.
He could play LF, don’t you think?
Ah, that’s the ticket. Trade Hamilton, Move FACE to LF, Sign Fielder to DH. Under those circumstances — keeping both Fielder and FACE out of the infield — I like the Fielder idea.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
Asking Face to move = Career year from Face
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
See. It makes sense all around.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
Yes--this is the obvious move, imo
Play your hearts out for a championship in 2012.
Avoid giving out a potentially crippling contract.
Play your hearts out for a championship in 2013 and beyond.
Josh's situation is unique
He’s the only stud bat that PROBABLY NOBODY would sign to a long term contract for big $ because in his issues injuries and addiction problems, plus his issues limit the teams he’d probably sign with do to lifestyle issues.
I’m big on Fielder simply because I don’t have any faith that Josh and Nelly will sign here when they become FAs. THeir health is just too much in question. That frees up a lot of $ in later years to be able toafford FIelder.
Baseball's hard, guys. I mean, it really is. You can love it but, believe me, it don't always love you back. It's kind of like dating a German chick, you know?
Somebody will give him the years and money he wants
All it takes is 1
Next year when the Yankees and Red Sox will be FA bidders he will get a big long deal
I think it will be from some team that nobody expects.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
This might be your best peice in a long time, AJM. Well done.
I got a broken brain
The doctor’s saying that I’m overpaid
interesting
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
If I were a GM
Houston would be a pretty fun place to go. Decent budget, big market, new owner.
Also, no big contracts—like a fresh start.
The hugest brick ever.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
Im starting to think I could see Fielder sign only a 4 or 5 year deal or at least have a opt out after 4 or 5 years
Mark Teixeiras contract is up after 2016 so the Yanks will be back on the market for a 1B in 4 or 5 years.
if I were the rangers I would offer him a 8 year deal worth 180 million (same as Mark Teixeira) but structure it like this:
2012-2015: 25 mil each
opt out clause after 2015
2016: 23 mil
opt out clause after 2016
2017:20 mil
2018:19 mil
2019:18 mil
Gives him the big first 4 years which are the prime of his career and then he can opt out if he chooses at which time the Rangers could say “bye” and likely have gotten full value out of the deal. If something happens in 2015 and he got hurt and missed the year he could have a bounceback 2016 and then opt out if he wanted. With the decreasing salaries the last three years it lessens whatever decline he will have and by that time he may only need to be a 2.5-3 WAR player to be worth his deal.
Other than front loading it and the total dollars I'm interested.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Well they kinda work together though
I dont think you’ll be able to sign him to a short term deal for 20 mil per. When you get into the shorter length deals more teams will become interested and the money will go up.
You offer the long term deal at the same level Teixeira got and he probably takes it. Front load it which will help spur him to opt out. If after 4 years he is 32 and has just had 4 really good years he will look at his deal and see he has 4 years and 80 million left. He will likely think he can get better than that in FA and opt out.
If you backload a deal, which i understand with the tv money coming in a few years, he could see his deal and depending on the FA landscape could feel content with it and you are stuck with the entire deal.
I like that.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
Because the team is assigned the risk of the contract without the upside
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 28, 2011 10:47 PM CST up reply actions
I think even if Fielder has the most optimistic 4 years imaginable
We won’t him at $20-25M per year for the next 4
won't want* him
do you disagree?
I see the logic, but few of us have real concerns about Prince over the next 3-4 years. If you put the opt-out early enough in the contract, I think it’s advantageous.
No
It is never advantageous for the team.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 28, 2011 10:57 PM CST up reply actions
I don't buy that
If the Rangers are confident in his first 4 years, but are terrified about the last 4 years of the contract….
Wouldn’t they prefer Prince to opt out? Doesn’t it work to their advantage if they prefer to not carry that contract into the future?
No
There are two scenarios.
Either Fielder is able to get more than what remains on his contract on the open market and opts out, or he can’t get that much and doesn’t opt out.
Obviously, #2 is a big loss for the team.
#1, however, is also a loss for the team. If he can get more on the open market than he’s due on his contract, then the contract has surplus value for the team, and thus the team loses value when he opts out.
Either way, the team is worse off.
Rather than doing an opt-out clause, deal Fielder after year 4. If he could really get more money as a free agent than he has due on his contract, not only will he be easy to move, but he’d bring a significant return as well.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 28, 2011 11:04 PM CST up reply actions
Shit, you're right.
I will say this isn’t a transparent market, so there’s a chance Prince overvalues himself (he and his agent don’t have long after the season to decide whether to opt out).
If I’m really stretching for an argument, I’d say there’s a scenario where Prince is not worth his salary per year, but knows he can get a longer contract and more guaranteed on the market. For instance, Prince has 4/80left on his contract, but the league only deems him a 18M per year player going forward. He still could get a 6/108 contract at age 32.
Also,
say his opt out corresponds with the Yankees wanting to sign him, and Prince and his agent know this.
If they are the only team willing to trade for that, you won’t get any return. He opts out if he’s confident there is a single team out there willing to sign him for more.
But if you have the same deal and trade him instead...
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
BTW... I would support an opt out clause
If it meant we paid him less money than his current market value in the first four years.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Under bigsteve's scenario you're paying him $25 million/year
That’s not below market value.
Conceptually, though, sure…the right to opt out of a deal has value to a player, and thus a player should be willing to take less money prior to the opt-out clause in exchange for getting the opt-out clause as part of the deal.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 28, 2011 11:22 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah that's what I didn't like about bigsteve's deal.
It paid him full market value of $180m guaranteed and front loaded it make it more expensive from a time/money/value standpoint.
If he was willing to back load it and take like $150m or less… then I’d be more interested.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
If he's only owed less than his market value that the Yankees might sign him for
Then you could trade him to the Yankees and get value in return rather than letting him opt out and getting nothing.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Whom are the Yankees bidding against in this scenario?
It’s not really his “market value”—just what the rich MFY are willing to shell out.
If they aren't bidding against anyone...
Why are they willing to pay him more money as a FA than the lesser value of his current contract?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Completely different when you're talking about keeping existing talent.
Who are the biggest names in the sport.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I don't think it's completely different
If they wanted Prince and needed a 1st baseman, I don’t think they’d not outbid what everyone perceives his value to be just because he isn’t “existing talent”
Eh.
They’re not complete idiots though. They don’t want to just spend money blindly… if they have an opportunity to get a guy for less they will.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I buy that this makes sense incentive-wise
But it’s ridiculous time value of money-wise.
it lessens whatever decline he will have and by that time
This might make you feel better, but it’s a poor way to spend money. The Rangers would be better off in multiple ways by back loading the contract.
They have TV revenue in the future. Additionally, if they can afford the $25M this year, they are better off investing it, and paying it later. Moreover, inflation likely makes future $25M worth less.
If he gets a 8 year deal its going to be for Teixeira type money
I just think front loading a deal like this with the opt out clauses is the best way to get the player and reap the benefits of the prime of his career while increasing the likelihood of him opting out and not being on the hook for the last part of the deal which will likely be when he is “overpaid”
Sure
I agree with the idea that he’s more likely to opt out if you front load.
I disagree that it’s preferred to owe him less later in the contract, if he doesn’t opt out.
The best of both worlds would be to front-load with deferrals to later years.
I am getting a bit more optimistic on signing him.
It’s still like 10%… but it’s higher than zero.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I'm really pulling for a deflated off-season of FA spending
NY and Bos don’t appear to be on any big prospects, and there’s a lot of guys that are expecting to get paid, without a lot of teams desperate to spend money.
Dodgers, Mets, Cubs all appear to be in sell-mode (or at least not willing to go big). I wouldn’t be shocked to see the Dodgers break from this.
Angels and Brewers are limited by their announced budget.
Marlins appear to be bluffing a bit, and still have Loria at the helm.
Rangers, Braves, Cardinals, Blue Jays appear to be the best options, but who knows. Blue Jays have recently been burned on seemingly every large contract, and Braves don’t need a 1b.
I should have known.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
So I guess nobody found where I said the 2010 off-season was going to be JD's biggest challenge yet?
I don’t think I said it….JD had a lot more money to spend than he had previously with very defined needs and weaknesses.
This off-season is his biggest challenge to date.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Wouldn't matter if someone had found it
You don’t respond to evidence very well
by Jobu. on Nov 28, 2011 10:30 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
If I say I'm heavily skeptical about a pitcher like....oh, say Cobra Lewis for example...that
doesn’t mean I definitively think he’s going to suck like I thought Judy Borbon was going to suck.
It means I’m heavily skeptical.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 11:07 PM CST up reply actions
Heh.
I will be shocked if Lewis can
give the Rangers 150 IPs with an ERA below 5.
It’s been a very active off-season and JD has definitely "looked busy."
I don’t think we’ve moved backwards but I’m having a hard time figuring out where we’ve improved. Our glaring team weaknesses of 2009 are still just as glaring.
Colby Lewis seems like somebody who should be considered AAA depth and nobody that you’d be giving $ 6 million and the ball every 5 days.
If he was really good, more teams would have been after him and he would have been a helluva lot more expensive. That is, unless the Rangers Pacific Rim Job knows more than everybody else.
I’m not a fan of Brandon McCarthy at all but he’s a better pitcher than Lewis. I’d rather see Harrison, Holland or CJ being given a chance to start than watching a 31 year old Cobra Lewis throw down a 6.00 ERA while killing our bully every 5 days.
What do you say when you’re beyond heavily skeptical?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
You also missed the quote that said "I'm heavily skeptical."
Everything I wrote drips with heavy skepticism about Cobra Lewis.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 11:21 PM CST up reply actions
What I wrote is crafted pretty well...
I said he “seems like somebody …” . Seems is a pussy ride the fence word and not definitive.
I also said “unless the Pacific Rim Job…” . Unless is an out and not definitive.
When I think somebody is going to suck, I’ll say it. If I’m riding the fence you’ll see what I wrote about Cobra.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 11:25 PM CST up reply actions
You were very specific about the 6.00 ERA and BMac being better.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I mean.. if you think a guy is going to have a 6.00 ERA and be worse than a guy you hate in BMac
How is that not saying “He sucks”?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I don't look at what I wrote about Cobra as a prediction...It was strictly hyperbole. I didn't know what
the fuck he was going to do and I was much more bullish on other pitchers.
When I’m bullish on somebody or if I think they’re going to suck, I’ll say it in very clear terms for just these occasions.
I know my opinions carry a lot sway in here and if I’m wrong, I’m going to hear about it…which I have no problems with…I have the stones to get up on the stage and speak loudly.
Sometimes I’m on the fence with issues because I really don’t know or feel like the player/pitcher could go either way.
I didn’t know what to think about Cobra Lewis coming to the Rangers in 2010. A lot of things didn’t add up and that made me heavily skeptical.
If I’m actually wrong on something ….see Elvis Andrus…I have no problem admitting it.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Nov 28, 2011 11:36 PM CST up reply actions
Here's the thing...
If Colby had gone out there and sucked… put up a 6.00+ ERA and pitched 80 innings…
You’d have thumped your chest and said you called that… and pointed out all the times that you said he’d suck and that he was too cheap and JD made a bad move, blah blah blah.
You know you would.
Riding the fence is your way of crafting a little escape hatch. Because there’s no way you’re not grinding everyone’s face in it Colby being shitty if he was.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Bullshit.
Can you think of a previous example where I rode the fence on somebody with heavy skepticism and then thumped my chest and said I called that?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Why do you use pussy words?
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
I'm sorry I missed this.
Easiest possible claim to disprove, that one.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by 






























