Giants supposedly shopping Sanchez, and why Texas shouldn't care
Jon Paul Morosi has a story up on Yardbarker this morning, talking about how the San Francisco Giants are shopping lefthanded starter Jonathan Sanchez.
Much like the news that the Braves are willing to trade Jair Jurrjens, this news will no doubt provoke a certain amount of "should the Rangers pursue him?" talk, often accompanied by the argument that "you can never have enough pitching."
But the reasons that the Giants are looking at dealing Sanchez are the same reasons that the Rangers shouldn't be interested in him.
First of all, let's look at Sanchez's 2011 season:
The numbers look even worse when you consider that he was pitching in the N.L. and with half his games in San Francisco, dropping his ERA+ to 84. The only one of the Rangers' primary starters who didn't have an ERA better than Sanchez's 4.26 is Colby Lewis, and all the Rangers' primary starters had a better ERA+. Even Scott Feldman, the Rangers' long man and someone who would be fighting for the fifth starter spot in 2011, was better than Sanchez last year.
Sanchez's peripherals were equally mediocre, as he posted a 4.30 FIP and a 4.36 xFIP.
San Francisco wants to deal him because he's a year away from free agency, he'll likely make $6-7 million in arbitration in 2012, and they've got other options under team control that are just as good. Those are the same reasons the Rangers should have little interest in Sanchez.
Morosi explains what the hope is on Sanchez:
Sanchez performed like a No. 5 starter this season, but other teams will need to weigh whether the motivation of a contract year will help the left-hander return to the form he showed while having a career year (13-9, 3.07 ERA, 193 1/3 innings) for the champion Giants in 2010.
That sounds nice, but Sanchez had a 4.00 FIP and a 3.94 xFIP in 2010. His ERA was the product of a .252 BABIP and a 79.5% LOB%.
And the 2010-11 FIPs are consistent with his career numbers...he has a career FIP of 4.11, a career xFIP of 4.17, and has only had a sub-4 FIP once in his career (3.85 in 2008) and a sub-4 xFIP once (3.94 in 2010). And he's not really going to "eat innings"...even in his "career year" of 2010, he averaged fewer than 6 innings per start because his pitch counts are so elevated, as a result of his control problems.
So maybe Sanchez is a young pitcher still figuring it out, who is poised to break out? Not really...he turns 29 in two weeks.
Basically, San Francisco is wanting to dump Sanchez on a team that is willing to pay him $6-7 million in his walk year in the hopes that he can replicate his fluky 2010 season when he had the fifth lowest BABIP in the majors. That's not a bet I'd be willing to make.
Similarly, there was a burst of excitement over the news that the Braves were willing to deal Jair Jurrjens. Former top prospect, 25 years old, 2.96 ERA last season...what's not to like? If the Braves are dumb enough to part with him, Texas should be all over him, right?
No. Let's look at the red flags. Jurrjens only made 23 starts in 2011, only 20 starts in 2010. Jurrjens' 2.96 ERA in 2011 was put up despite a 3.99 FIP and a 4.23 xFIP...like Sanchez in 2010, Jurrjens benefited from a low BABIP and high LOB% (.269 and 81%, respectively). The same spikes occurred in 2009, when Jurrjens had a 2.60 ERA despite a 3.68 FIP and a 4.28 xFIP. Moreover, Jurrjens' velocity has gone down each season in the majors, to where he was only at 89.1 mph in 2011.
That's not to say that Jurrjens is a bad pitcher. He's not. But he's also a pitcher with some issues and red flags, who probably isn't quite as good as his ERA suggests.
Combine that with his contract situation -- he's a free agent after 2013, and will likely make $5 million in 2012 and $7-8 million in 2013 -- and the appeal of Jurrjens diminishes even further.
That's particularly the case for a team like the Rangers, who are bringing back four starters from the 2011 rotation: Colby Lewis, Matt Harrison, Derek Holland, and Alexi Ogando. Of those four, Jurrjens had a worse FIP- (FIP relative to league average, adjusted for league and park) than everyone except Lewis, and he barely beat out Lewis (105 for Jurrjens, 106 for Colbyashi).
Aside from those four, you've got Neftali Feliz and Scott Feldman in the mix for the #5 spot, along with the Rangers' well-publicized interest in Yu Darvish and the possibility that they will bring back C.J. Wilson. And then there is Neil Ramirez, Martin Perez, and Michael Kirkman who will be in AAA for depth purposes and to step up if any of the top six guys, plus whoever may be added, go down.
Which is why it doesn't make sense for the Rangers to seriously pursue Sanchez, Jurrjens, or any number of similar pitchers who we will hear are on the market in the next month or so. The Rangers don't need a warm body for the middle- to back-end of the rotation, particularly not at the salary that these guys would command (not to mention the cost of the prospects they'd cost).
The Rangers need a legit #1 or #2 starter. That's what they are going to pursue. If they can't get one, they're better off standing pat with who they have than going out and adding someone else's mid-rotation guy?
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Agree entirely
The only reason I could see going after a Sanchez or Jurrjens is if they were to make a big trade for a #1 and include two of their good but not great guys (e.g., Ogando + Harry in a deal – along with others – for a #1)
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
I would look at Jurrjens, but have 0 interest in Sanchez.
This day is slightly marred by the fact that John Rhadigan sucks a flaming bag of shit. - LiamP
Whats Sanchez ceiling?
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Nov 5, 2011 11:36 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
His ceiling is pretty high.
His stuff is really good. He has always missed a lot of bats. He just walks way too many guys. Always has, probably always will.
As much as this crowd here hates Matt Harrison
I don’t see why people would want to go out and get a similar type player who is older (i.e., less likely to improve) and is way more expensive
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Does this crowd hate Harrison?
Perseverance isn't just the willingness to work hard. It's that, plus the willingness to be stubborn about your own belief in yourself."
---Merlin Olsen
well, they used to
not as much now. But it was really bad before. And Harrison’s 2011 was pretty much better than most anything Sanchez has put up.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
they're both lefties who have really great stuff
but have never harnessed it to their full potential.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Sanchez, of course, Ks way more than Harrison does
but they both suffer from the walk quite a bit
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
If I had to choose between the two I'd choose Harrison
They are both pretty different in their results. Harrison seems like a much safer player to keep. Sanchez has an insane walk rate.
This. A million times this.
This is also why I have absolutely zero interest in Buerhle, Kuroda, Jackson, etc.
Our rotation needs a #1 or #2. We have a plethora of #3-5’s
An unheralded plethora, even.
/rosinpenis
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
I wonder how much Ryan Madson would cost
Not going to be worth the contract he’ll get, but damn I’d love to have him on our team.
hypothetical
let’s say Prince goes somewhere else
what is the Brewers record on July 30th and how many games ahead/back are they in the NL Central
by oc on Nov 5, 2011 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I still think they'll be good.
They have good pitching. With Fielder leaving they can use the money to sign someone to make up some of the difference. Also, they are automatically upgrading their offense/defense at SS by subtracting Betancourt.
I'd rather sign Oswalt than trade for either of these two guys.
I shortened my sig so I wouldn't be frowned upon at Lookout Landing
i'd be concerned about his back and thats he's never pitched in the AL
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
Starting pitcher
I would have taken the Derek Lowe giveway (at $5 million for next year) over either Sanchez or Jurrjens.
In fact, the more I think about it, the more I wish we had done just that.
My issue with Lowe...
…is that I think there are already five guys under team control for 2012 who are at least as good as him.
Six, if you count Lowe.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 5, 2011 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Lowe
I don’t think Feldman is as good a Lowe, if he’s your 5th guy.
If you need him to, Lowe is a pretty solid bet to give you 190 innings at a 4.00 FIP and a 2.5 WAR.
Assuming Wilson isn’t here (which I think is likely) and you are planning to move Feliz to the rotation (which I also think is likely), you are going to need rotation depth, i.e., six or seven guys you can count on. Lowe is a guy who could be the 5th/6th starter, which I think you need if you are starting the rotation with Feliz and Ogando (and Holland and Harrison for that matter).
by Darrell McKown on Nov 5, 2011 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions
That's basically assuming he can carry over last year's production
As he gets a year older at the extreme end of the aging curve, moves to the AL, and pitches in RBIA.
My mind just says throw ball throw hard and strike. - Marteen
by Keynes on Nov 5, 2011 3:39 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
He's also an extreme ground ball pitcher
who would be pitching in front of Kinsler, Beltre and Andrus.
by Darrell McKown on Nov 5, 2011 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't understand why you'd pay Lowe to be the long man/#6 starter when you've already got Feldman here
Even if Lowe is better than Feldman — which I don’t think is the case — is he so much better it warrants burning that much of your budget on him?
Particularly given that, if you had gotten Lowe now, you are pretty much conceding that you are NOT bringing back Wilson, signing Darvish, or making any other move of significance for a SP?
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 5, 2011 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions
At 37/38 years old after pitching in the NL for the last 7 years
I wouldn’t trust him to give you 190 IP with a 4 FIP/2.5 WAR. Especially coming off a year like he did where he wasa pretty much league average in FIP and way below league average in ERA.
"In fact, most of these free-swinging Padres couldn’t hit Dock’s funky palm ball. I threw it often. But by then, also, the first acid distractions entered: the TV flickered; the cracks in the wall started to move; the hand soap started to breathe — those sorts of things. Plus I was drawn to the outdoor garden between innings. Rain was near, I sensed." - A.J. Daulerio
This is odd on a mobile...no yellow
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
by Rodney on Nov 5, 2011 6:28 PM CDT via mobile reply actions

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