Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Eden Hazard In London For Medical, According To Reports

On Ken Rosenthal and the Rangers "payroll flexibility"

So last night, Ken Rosenthal dropped a column on us that said that the Rangers were likely not going to be players for either Prince Fielder or Yu Darvish because the team's payroll flexibility "is not as significant as many in the industry previously believed."

Joey Matches has a lengthy piece talking about those issues up at BBTiA that's worth checking out, and I've got a few thoughts, as well.

First of all, Rosenthal is the same guy who broke the first Michael Young trade demand story,* along with quite a few other Ranger-related items over the past few years. Rosenthal and Jon Daniels reportedly have a good relationship. I don't think we can simply dismiss this out of hand because he's a national writer and doesn't know the Rangers.

I believe that was the story that prompted Randy Galloway to say that Jon Daniels was going to have to start giving more of the local writers info like that, or else they'd stop treating him with kid gloves.

Secondly, there's a big difference between the Prince Fielder situation and the Yu Darvish situation, from a cash-flow perspective. Fielder requires a big financial commitment, but in terms of total dollars spread over time, not up front. Both Mark Buehrle and C.J. Wilson, for example, have significantly backloaded deals in which their 2012 salaries are $6 million and $10 million, respectively. If the concern is short-term, you can backload a deal with Fielder if you really want him.

Darvish, on the other hand, requires a posting fee. That amount has to be paid up front, in cash. If you bid $50 million and you win the bidding, you have to put up that $50 million. That's not insignificant, particularly if, as Rosenthal says, the Rangers have a $30 million payment due they have to make to Chuck Greenberg, along with a $12 million expenditure for ballpark improvements. That $42 million figure, right there, is probably pretty close to what will be the winning posting fee for Darvish.

Third, you also have the fact that ownership has had to kick in a lot more money over the past 18 months than was anticipated. The amount they had to pay for the team went up significantly through the auction process (thanks so much, Mark Cuban and Jim Crane), and they are now having to shell out $30 million to buy Greenberg out. That's (back of the envelope math) $100 million or so above what it appeared the buy in would be.

Fourth, it is troubling that this is coming down at the same time we learned that the new CBA is going to put significant limits on what can be spent in international free agency and in the draft. The Rangers have been one of the biggest spending clubs in terms of amateur talent, and handed out signing bonuses in excess of $15 million for international signees in 2011. With the cutbacks in what can be spent internationally, you'd like to think that those funds would end up being funneled towards the major league payroll. That appears not to be the case.

Fifth, while there may not be the "flexibility" we anticipated, it isn't as if the 2012 Rangers are going to be Tampa Bay or the Pirates. Texas looks like it will have a payroll of at least $110 million for 2012, which would have put it 10th in the majors last year, when the Rangers were at $92 million. Payroll is going up. The question is, is it going up as much as we would like, or as much as we thought it would. And by cutting back on what can be invested in international talent, it raises the importance of paying for major league talent.

Sixth, let's see what happens. This is troubling, but it isn't as if the team is broke. It isn't as if we still have Tom Hicks at the helm, wanting $60 million payrolls. Let's see where payroll ends up this year. Let's see what is done as far as locking up the "core" this offseason. Let's give this a little time before we start lumping the Rangers in with the Tampa Bay Rays of the world.

Comment 681 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

More from Lone Star Ball

Thoughts on a 14-3 win

May 2012 by Adam J. Morris - 10 comments

Thoughts on a 6-1 win

May 2012 by Adam J. Morris - 29 comments

Thoughts on a 4-2 loss

May 2012 by Adam J. Morris - 126 comments

This Day in LSB History

Apr 2012 by Adam J. Morris - 10 comments

Comments

Display:

x
The Rangers have been one of the biggest spending clubs in terms of amateur talent, and handed out signing bonuses in excess of $15 million for international signees in 2011. With the cutbacks in what can be spent internationally, you’d like to think that those funds would end up being funneled towards the major league payroll. That appears not to be the case.

Well, what the hell are they using it on, then?

"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11

by hornedfrogs45 on Dec 13, 2011 11:22 AM CST reply actions  

Well, that's awesome.

Glad we have that second wild card spot, now.

"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11

by hornedfrogs45 on Dec 13, 2011 11:41 AM CST up reply actions  

Am I the only one who thinks that most of this is a smoke screen?

I understand there has been and will be a large cash outlay this off-season, and just because the FO didn’t match Cj’s deal, it doesn’t mean the team is broke(because CJ did not fit into the plans). Now, if it comes to pass that Darvish and Fielder are passed on despite semi-reasonable financial commitments a la CJ’s deal, then I will be looking for a cactus to swing.

I sports hate you CJ.

by Parman on Dec 13, 2011 1:00 PM CST up reply actions  

No, several of us have mentioned that.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that this came out 36 hours before the Darvish bids were due, but it could have been intentional in several different ways.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 1:02 PM CST up reply actions  

My thought is that it might be a nudge to ownership...

Who are on the fence about upping their commitment.

No one wants to look like a cheapskate.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 1:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Are the Rangers really looking cheap right now?

You can only be young once but can be immature forever!

by Bigfan16 on Dec 13, 2011 1:04 PM CST up reply actions  

yes

NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development

Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM

by shock00 on Dec 13, 2011 1:07 PM CST up reply actions  

well no suprise that we disagree.

The Rangers were unacceptably cheap under Hicks.
Payroll in the top third, park improvements, LA signings,etc. all add up to a big committment.
I believe the issue is that some we expecting the committment to be higher.

You can only be young once but can be immature forever!

by Bigfan16 on Dec 13, 2011 1:11 PM CST up reply actions  

its just disappointing that the Rangers let CJ walk w/out really offering a decent deal

thats why i’m calling them cheap. in reality you are right….way better situation than we’ve had in a long time.

NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development

Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM

by shock00 on Dec 13, 2011 1:13 PM CST up reply actions  

You are right too.

Letting CJ go hurt but the Rangers looked a the cost and the other internal options and decided to pass. It sucks that he is an Angel but the money not spent on him does allow for future moves that are yet to be determined.

You can only be young once but can be immature forever!

by Bigfan16 on Dec 13, 2011 1:15 PM CST up reply actions  

ok you're talking me off the ledge.........nice

NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development

Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM

by shock00 on Dec 13, 2011 1:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Guess I am going to get banned from Angrydome

if I keep talking people off the edge.

I will work on that.

You can only be young once but can be immature forever!

by Bigfan16 on Dec 13, 2011 1:19 PM CST up reply actions  

lol...you're just the voice of reason right now

nothing wrong w/ that

NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development

Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM

by shock00 on Dec 13, 2011 1:20 PM CST up reply actions  

I am not sure I am comfortable with bieing the voice of reason.

Quick let’s change the subject so i can be an idiot again!

You can only be young once but can be immature forever!

by Bigfan16 on Dec 13, 2011 1:38 PM CST up reply actions  

WHAT DO YOU MEAN NO PRINCE !

there that do it?

NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development

Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM

by shock00 on Dec 13, 2011 1:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Want to get me going...

argue against packaging Profar, Olt and Perez plus whatever for King Felix.
I would trade damn near the entire farm for a true #1 like him. That would put us over the top in the playoffs.

You can only be young once but can be immature forever!

by Bigfan16 on Dec 13, 2011 1:42 PM CST up reply actions  

thats the only caliber pitcher that I would trade all 3 of those for

i’m all for it bigfan…make that shit happen !

NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development

Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM

by shock00 on Dec 13, 2011 1:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Idiot!

We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11

by Rodney on Dec 13, 2011 1:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Thank you Rodney!

Now I feel more comfortable.

You can only be young once but can be immature forever!

by Bigfan16 on Dec 13, 2011 1:50 PM CST up reply actions  

gahhh so dumb

NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development

Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM

by shock00 on Dec 13, 2011 1:55 PM CST up reply actions  

:)

We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11

by Rodney on Dec 13, 2011 1:56 PM CST up reply actions  

From a perception standpoint with their rivals doing what they've done...

It feels like it. But the Rangers are definitely not actually being cheap skates right now.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 1:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Thank you.

using the Angels moves this offseason to justify spending big on Yu or Prince reminds me of the mother that says “if all your friends jumped off a bridge would you?”
I am not against signing either or both but only if they fit the rangers plan that seams to be working quite well the past two years.

You can only be young once but can be immature forever!

by Bigfan16 on Dec 13, 2011 1:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Extremely.

Half the bids for CJ, saying they won’t bid for Prince, saying they won’t bid for Darvish…..they look very cheap.

by FuturePants on Dec 13, 2011 1:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Cot's opening day payroll

2010 just under $65M
2012 estimates range but $105-$110M

2010 cheap. Screw Hicks.
2012 competitive.

You can only be young once but can be immature forever!

by Bigfan16 on Dec 13, 2011 1:18 PM CST up reply actions  

20-25 percent, that is.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 1:22 PM CST up reply actions  

You said they look very cheap.

And I’m saying I don’t see how a group that’s about to bump payroll up by (I’ll be very, very conservative) 15-25 percent looks very cheap, except to people who don’t understand the context.

And those people will most likely still think the ownership looks cheap unless they come within $25 million of the Angels’ payroll. So that seems like a no-win situation…

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 1:30 PM CST up reply actions  

I dont see how you cant see that by simply allowing payroll to rise organically it gives off the cheap vibe

Yes hardcore fans of the club will know our payroll is increasing due to the arb raises that come from assembling such a talented and young club. But the average fan looks and sees we just went to back to back WS and our big FA signing this winter was Joe Nathan for 7 mil a season while LA is signing Pujols and Wilson.

yeah that gives off the appearance of cheap

by bigsteve on Dec 13, 2011 1:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Perception is reality

You are entitled to your perception but please consider what the Bosox and Yank’s have done this offseason. Are they being cheap?
The Angels finished 10 games back. They had to do something big just to catch up.
It would be nice if the Rangers move to counter the Angels but calling them cheap is a bit overboard IMHO.

You can only be young once but can be immature forever!

by Bigfan16 on Dec 13, 2011 1:36 PM CST up reply actions  

True, but the Rangers have spent in the past.

And will probably never spend at their levels.
I still maintain the rangers are not being cheap.

You can only be young once but can be immature forever!

by Bigfan16 on Dec 13, 2011 1:40 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think they are cheap.

I can understand the idea that they may appear that way to some people though.

by DFWAg on Dec 13, 2011 1:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Agreed.

I think the rangers are in a good position and want to enjoy it while it lasts. Hopefully it lasts a long, long time.

You can only be young once but can be immature forever!

by Bigfan16 on Dec 13, 2011 1:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Well the Yankees signed the best FA pitcher available for 5/122

Red Sox had their big winter last year signing Crawford and trading for/signing AGon

Its pretty easy to see how the Rangers could be perceived as being cheap this winter

by bigsteve on Dec 13, 2011 1:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Wait.

The Red Sox get credit for last off-season, but the Rangers don’t?

A 44 percent increase in payroll from 2010-2011, the Beltre signing, nothing?

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 1:40 PM CST up reply actions  

NOT WHEN THAT BELTRE SIGNING IS KEEPING US FROM EXTENDING MARTIN PEREZ IN 2018, SNARK.

PUT IT IN THE BLENDER.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 1:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Heh.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 1:45 PM CST up reply actions  

I dont think its right to use Hicks' payroll levels to show the increase in percentage

Unless you believe our revenues only allowed us to spend 70 million on payroll in those years

Also I dont think you can compare the public perception of signing 1 guy to a 5/80 (6/96) to another team who signs 2 guys to 154 and 142 million dollar contracts respectively

by bigsteve on Dec 13, 2011 1:45 PM CST up reply actions  

So the Rangers are cheap

unless they match the Angels’ or Red Sox payroll?

Because that’s the only way they could match those contracts.

As for not using the 2010 payroll: what else should I use? What should the Rangers’ payroll in 2010 have been? (Show your work!)

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 1:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Never said we have to match those

I’d like to be closer than 50 million though

I think 2010 was fine. Its using 2009 as a baseline saying we increased 40% that I have a problem with. 2009 should have been closer to 80-85 million IMO and thus then the increase to 2010 wouldn’t be as drastic even though the number would be acceptable

by bigsteve on Dec 13, 2011 1:50 PM CST up reply actions  

OK, fine.

Go with a 15 percent increase from 2010 to 2011, if you’d like, but I think that $80-85M number requires backing.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 1:54 PM CST up reply actions  

And a 15-23 percent increase

from 2009-2010. But, again: I’d like evidence that shows the Rangers should’ve spent $80-85 million in 2009.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Trading for Napoli too

if the Red Sox get credit for trading for A-Gon.

Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"

Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."

by Gdawg on Dec 13, 2011 1:45 PM CST up reply actions  

if we extend Napoli that may work

but to trade for Napoli last year we gave up Frankie so it was a cost neutral move really

by bigsteve on Dec 13, 2011 1:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Again, all you're caring about is money

and completely disregarding the actual players. I’m convinced now that you are the only non-Josey/Moreno person who thought the Angels made a good trade for Wells last year.

Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"

Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."

by Gdawg on Dec 13, 2011 1:58 PM CST up reply actions  

I thought it was horrible trade for them

From a on the field perspective

But if they were trying to show their fans they can still spend money then it did its job.

Us trading for Napoli by giving up Frankie was a net positive on the field but it did nothing to show whether we could or could not spend money because the salaries basically cancelled each other out

by bigsteve on Dec 13, 2011 2:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Not sure if you realize this or not

but you’re basically comparing Buckel to Kershaw again here.

Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"

Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."

by Gdawg on Dec 13, 2011 2:11 PM CST up reply actions  

No im not

You may not have followed this subthread discussion but this was about how the Red Sox had their big winter last year, part of which included trading for and then signing AGon to a huge deal.

Someone mentioned we traded for Napoli and should get credit for that if they get credit for trading for AGon.

Those are two completely different things all together. The AGon trade was a superstar for prospects so the Red Sox took back his salary in the first place and then signed him to a big money extension.

We on the other hand traded Frankie for Napoli which essentially cancelled out the money aspect of the deal.

The Angels last winter were hot and heavy after Crawford and Beltre by all reports. They lost out on both and then made the Wells trade. It was horrible from a “on the field” standpoint even before Napoli had his breakout season. But if one of the factors in doing the trade for the Angels was to show fans they were still one of the big boys in terms of spending money then it accomplished that even if it was a stupid trade to make.

Oh and I saw how someone comped Akins stats to Kemps stats in one of the prospect polls. Where was the uproar over that?

by bigsteve on Dec 13, 2011 2:17 PM CST up reply actions  

If just spending money was the goal last season...

Why didn’t they sign Beltre?

That’s a terrible justification for that trade.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 2:15 PM CST up reply actions  

They tried

They tried to sign both Crawford and Beltre but were turned down.

by bigsteve on Dec 13, 2011 2:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Random thought

Didn’t the Angels say they were out on Beltre, after he didn’t take their offer? This was way before the Rangers got involved on him.

I wonder if the Rangers then offered what the Angels were basically offering, and the Angels tried to come back in over the top—but Beltre was already butt-hurt.

I wonder if the Angels were whom Beltre referred to when he said he took less to play for us.

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 2:20 PM CST up reply actions  

It definitely wasn't the A's.

Their last bid was 5/64.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 2:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Isn't that like scoring a 30/100 on an Exam

And then being proud of your 100% increase in score on the next one?

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 1:45 PM CST up reply actions  

You think the Rangers' 2010 payroll

should have been $91 million, then?

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 1:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think you should shoot for a payroll

just because you can afford it.

But if that was what our revenue stream could afford, then that should have been our ceiling.

If we were spending money elsewhere, so be it—I don’t know the facts.

You are really impressed that they increased the payroll from Hicks bankruptcy—can’t meet payroll-state?

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 1:49 PM CST up reply actions  

By as much as they did, as quickly as they did,

given where the team was?

Yes. I think they very easily could’ve told Daniels that they had just spent a ton on buying the team — more than they expected — and knew they were going to have to spend a lot on ballpark improvements, and that he had a hard cap of $75-80 million.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 1:55 PM CST up reply actions  

I think any new ownership group

That ever comes in and buys a new team thats currently vying for the WS year-after-year is going to increase payroll that much.

Pretty much any one.

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 1:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Year after year?

The Rangers were not in that position in 2010.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Okay, you caught me being loose with my words

Did you think we werene’t a WS-contender at the start of 2011?

Seems like a nit-picky counter-argument, otherwise.

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 2:05 PM CST up reply actions  

I think after losing Cliff Lee,

the Rangers front office could’ve very easily said, “hey, we’re favorites to win the division, and we made the World Series last season — let’s not go crazy.”

Instead, they authorized signing Beltre, which many saw as crazy.

I think they’re screwed, from the “average fan” perspective, either way.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Wouldn't be shocking

that the average Rangers fan would tend to be a glass half empty type of fan considering the history of the franchise.

by DFWAg on Dec 13, 2011 2:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Again, if we're talking "average fan,"

then I guess I just don’t much care, until someone can show me how to make them not look at the glass half-empty without making a lot of stupid, stupid moves.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:16 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm actually agreeing with your point that they can't win.

Whatever they do, people can find something to bitch about.

by DFWAg on Dec 13, 2011 2:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Ahhh.

OK.

I didn’t get that.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:25 PM CST up reply actions  

I still don't know where this "Average fan" thing came from

I’m talking about expectations of the ownership group.

I believe they have the funds, but they are being conservative with their money. I’m okay with leveraging the future a bit because of how supremely talented our current club is.

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 2:12 PM CST up reply actions  

"Average fan"

was what someone said in explanation for the “looking very cheap” line.

If we’re not talking “average fan,” then the idea that the team looks (or is actually being) cheap strikes me as without evidence. We just don’t know what sort of funds the owners are working with.

We can either think they’re lying about what they’ve said they’re spending/will spend, or not.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:17 PM CST up reply actions  

And, also:

what teams that were currently vying for the World Series year after year have been sold?

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Astros?

Snicker.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 2:06 PM CST up reply actions  

There's the Angels.

Sold to Moreno after the season had started in 2003 — the year after they won the World Series.

He took their payroll up 25 percent (from $80M to 100M) for 2004.

Guess what happened the next three seasons?

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Payroll went down 3 percent in 2005,

then up 6 percent, and then up 5 percent.

And the flags they won only buttress my point, since they kept attendance in the 3.3-3.4 million range, and also brought in post-season revenue.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:14 PM CST up reply actions  

There's Florida/Miami, of course,

but even I don’t think that’s a very fair example.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:12 PM CST up reply actions  

I knew someone would bring them up.

Sold in December 2001. Look at the payrolls for 2001-2006, and tell me what percentage rise you see.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:18 PM CST up reply actions  

You don't think where the Rangers payroll

came from is a unique scenario?

Clearly that payroll had to rise—it was embarrassing where it was, and we were only able to succeed because virtually every player on the club was pre-FA

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 2:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Exactly

I dont think you can simply look at the final payroll number you have to look at how that was accomplished.

No one here is wanting them to go out and throw crazy money around at guys who are marginal at best. Thats what we did in the early 2000’s by signing all those mediocre starters and relievers to huge deals. Hey our payroll number looked nice but that was horrible.

But being disappointed that it appears we wont sign a impact player this winter due to financial restrictions while our main division rival signs not one but 2 premier FAs (one of which played for us last winter and signed a very reasonable deal) is a very valid reaction IMO and I completely understand how it can appear as we are being cheap

by bigsteve on Dec 13, 2011 2:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Disappointed? Sure.

I’ve been disappointed with this team a lot, over the years.

I’m disappointed that the Rangers don’t have millions more dollars to spend than they apparently do.

But I don’t expect the owners to discover the Magical Money Tree, either. And this idea that what they’ve done, in terms of payroll increases, is just what any owners would’ve done for any team? I see no evidence for that.

I don’t think they should be “endlessly praised.” But recognition of what they have spent seems logical and valid.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:28 PM CST up reply actions  

They've already discovered the Magical Money Tree!!

Make the Rangers a public trust and spend your personal finances to make us the greatest team on the planet.

Come on!

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 2:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Heh.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Yup.

So: how is that an example of what Jobu’s talking about?

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Which was:
I think any new ownership group that ever comes in and buys a new team thats currently vying for the WS year-after-year is going to increase payroll that much.

Pretty much any one.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:26 PM CST up reply actions  

I should have been more clear, I guess

I would add “following years of being a top-5 market, and bottom 5 payroll”

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 2:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, now we've narrowed it to:

What would any other ownership group have done with the Texas Rangers?

The Marlins really do become a counter-example, then, don’t they?

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Explain why they are a counter example?

I’m not familiar with their situation when Loria purchased the team.

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 2:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Loria bought them in 2002.

In 2001, they were 76-86, and had a payroll of $36 million, In 2002, they were 79-83, and had a payroll of $42 million. In 2003, they won the World Series with a payroll of $45 million.

In 2004, their payroll went down to $41 million. In 2005, it was 60 million. They went 83-79 in both years.

In 2006, their payroll was $15 million. Last year, it was back up to $57 million.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Ah, yes, I see your point

You’re right to be happy that these guys are clearly not just in it for the money.

Loria is a whore. I’m extremely happy to not have him as our owner.

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 2:49 PM CST up reply actions  

To be fair,

the Marlins’ attendance sucked in both 2003 and 2004. But, yeah.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:54 PM CST up reply actions  

What teams have been sold where the majority of the club is under team control for another 1-4 years

And will be getting raises in arbitration over that time?

And which of those clubs were in such a mess financially before that their payroll was supressed to begin with?

The Rangers situation was very very unique

by bigsteve on Dec 13, 2011 2:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Fine. Florida/Miami, then.

It’s also very, very unique, as a case study, and if we’re going to zoom in to the point that the Rangers are really the only team, by definition, that fits the mold, then I feel less guilty about bringing Florida/Miami into the conversation.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:40 PM CST up reply actions  

So you think the payroll rise

was a unique handling of the situation, and our owners should be endlessly praised for it?

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 2:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Endlessly praised?

Yeah, that’s what I wrote.

Check out the Padres post-Moorad, by the way.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Again

Not really planning to give our owners too much credit for not being the Padres.

They’ve done well, don’t get me wrong. I’m not upset they won the bid, by any means.

I’m not just not as impressed with the increased payroll as you and match are.

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 2:13 PM CST up reply actions  

And the Angels, from 2004-2007?

And the Marlins?

I mean, at some point, there has to be a positive example of what your talking about, right?

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Discussed above.

Here.

I am trying to find clubs that were sold when in position to compete for World Series championships whose new owners immediately undertook the sort of sustained payroll increases you’re claiming would be natural. Do you have any examples?

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh my bad,

No, I don’t have examples—I haven’t even looked.

I just think common sense if the team is bankrupt and has a league dwelling payroll, and a new ownership group comes in, and we are going to the World Series….

that a substantial increase in payroll that makes sense given our revenue streams, is pretty foreseeable.

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 2:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Some substantial increase, yes.

How much, is the big question.

My argument, all along, has been that the new ownership could very easily have raised payroll less quickly than it did, and justified it, especially given that the team they took over had racked up so much debt.

Doesn’t matter, to them, that the debt helped Hicks make money (assuming it did), since they saw none of those gains. They just inherited the team in the financial condition it was in.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Payroll is just "rising organically"? Really?

The ownership has come out had said they’re prepared to lose money in order to keep the payroll where it is. How is that “organic”?

If this ownership was cheap, they’d be selling off their expensive players — not paying out of their own pockets to boost payroll.

Let me put it this way: attendance went from 2.5 million to 2.95 million between 2010 and 2011, right? That’s an 18 percent increase.

If the payroll rises 25 percent, how does that not take into account the Rangers’ success?

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 1:37 PM CST up reply actions  

And so the ownership spending its own money

to bail the team out, and increase payroll by the amounts it has, looks “cheap”?

Wow. Tough crowd.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 1:48 PM CST up reply actions  

I think to the average DFW resident? Yeah, they do.

Even we don’t know where their supposed vast sums of new money is going other than scoreboards and plazas and statues of fans.

by FuturePants on Dec 13, 2011 1:50 PM CST up reply actions  

What vast sums of new money, exactly?

I mean, in addition to ballpark investments, we know something like $18-20 million is going to payroll. We know $30M is going to Greenberg. That’s ~$50 million right there. Are we talking more vast than that?

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

We don't know any of that for sure, first of all.

Just like we don’t know for sure what hte TV signing bonus was, if any, or what other revenue streams they have, or how much they got over and above by going to the Series for two consecutive years.

But none of that matters – the question was simply “do they look cheap?” The answer is “yes.”

by FuturePants on Dec 13, 2011 1:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Any of what for sure?

We don’t know that the payroll is very, very likely to be at the very least $105-110 million in 2012?

We think everyone’s wrong about the $30 million they owe Greenberg?

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 1:56 PM CST up reply actions  

That's the main thing

We have no idea about the financials of the situation, so I’m not going to over-the-top hate on these guys.

But, I’m not going to give them the standing-O because they are better than Hicks.

I’m obviously loving the Rangers, right now, but it’s going to stink if we look back in 4 or 5 years and realize we wish we’d spent more money to sustain this team.

We’ll see, I trust JD—I just hope he isn’t neutered.

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I trust JD to do whatever he can within constraints placed on him by the league or ownership.

When we were under MLB control, that meant trading Michael Main for simply salary relief for the fat man (which, can someone explain to me how team controlled Dodgers are able to sign the Kemp contract?), or if that means the owners say they want to be in the $110-130 million payroll for each of the next 5 years, making that work long term.

I do trust JD. We just have no clue what boundaries he’s working under.

by FuturePants on Dec 13, 2011 1:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep, I'd much rather JD to others

I just hope there isn’t a move that JD is dying to make right now and can’t.

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 1:57 PM CST up reply actions  

No matter what boundries JD is working under.

we can all agree there are boundries.

The Boundries are different for LA, NY in one way and TB and Oak in another.

You can only be young once but can be immature forever!

by Bigfan16 on Dec 13, 2011 1:58 PM CST up reply actions  

You just know that

this board will be filled with what the Rangers should have done in 2011 if they fail to win.

You can only be young once but can be immature forever!

by Bigfan16 on Dec 13, 2011 1:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Obviously... it's sports

They are billionaires, we see the team making loads of money, our biggest rival is spending out the wazoo, and we’re letting our best players go without pursuing others.

Fans have a right to be upset—hopefully, it motivates the owners to spend more (if the contract is right).

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 1:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Fans are always upset about something.

Last year it was Cliff Lee leaving. That had such a chilling effect on the Rangers’ revenues, too…

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 1:53 PM CST up reply actions  

We still got better last year, though

We are getting worse, at this point…

You don’t see the difference?

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 1:53 PM CST up reply actions  

JOE NATHAN

"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11

by hornedfrogs45 on Dec 13, 2011 1:54 PM CST up reply actions  

We'll pay Nathan almost the same amount we did C.J. in 2011.

True story.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 1:54 PM CST up reply actions  

We paid CJ last year

14x as much as we paid Feliz. True story.

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 1:55 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think you can assume we're getting worse

You don’t know how Feliz will perform as a starter, you don’t know that Ogando won’t improve now that he has some experience as a starter, you don’t know that Moreland won’t play better now that with a healthy wrist, among other things.

by MikeEl on Dec 13, 2011 1:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Best case for Feliz is a little worse than Ogando in 2011.

He’ll be 2011 AJ Burnett.

"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11

by hornedfrogs45 on Dec 13, 2011 1:58 PM CST up reply actions  

How is that best case?

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:00 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not guaranteeing we'll be worse this year than last

But statistically, we are less talented at the moment than we were at the end of last season.

There’s no denying that.

Relatively, our chances of making the playoffs has plummeted. I’m more concerned with the above part (since we can’t control what the Angels do)… but I’m just sayin…

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 1:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Plummeted?

What percentage likelihood of making the playoffs do you think the Rangers cost themselves with the Wilson non-signing?

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:00 PM CST up reply actions  

You're better with projections

What do you think the Rangers losing CJ, and the Angels adding CJ and Pujols amounted to, %-wise?

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 2:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Pujols is an externality, as you noted.

By including him, you’re basically saying you expect Rangers ownership to bump payroll to something like $140-145 million for 2012.

So, setting him aside, and just going off teams now? Based on what Szymborski posted about Fielder signing with the Rangers, and its effect on their playoff chances, I’m guessing (and it is just a guess) that the difference would be 10 percent or less, and the Rangers would still be favored.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Right, I'm not including him our expectations of what the ownership should do

but, Pujols does give some additional thought to their decision-making.

I’m sure we can both agree that it would be a masssssive waste if the Rangers were not to make the playoffs this year. Teams this talented don’t come around very often.

Given the structure of our team, and the moves the Angels have made—I’d say its imperative that we get better, if there’s a smart way to do that.

Even if it means using a bit of the future tv revenues to do it.

Again—for the love of god, do not give Prince 8/200… take a good contract, though, if we can find one.

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 2:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Which contract, though?

If not Fielder, who?

If you say Wilson, then you have to ask if that’s a good contract, for the Rangers. Some would say yes. Some would say no. The Rangers obviously thought not.

Some are arguing that’s because they have no money; some are arguing that’s because they’re “cheap.”

What do you think?

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Fielder, Yu, Beltran, Thornton

Madson—if he settles for like a 3/24 deal (seems extremely unlikely)

In the end, we’re talking in hypotheticals, because we don’t know what JD wants to do.

In my ideal world, JD has another $20M or so of payroll flexibility to work with for this year only, and payroll can drop to the ownership’s acceptable level with Hamilton leaving next year.

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 2:39 PM CST up reply actions  

OK.

So what do you do on Fielder? What’s a good contract? Not 10/$200M — 10/$180M? 10/$160M? Seems as if reasonable people could disagree about how safe an investment he is.

Darvish? If he costs $100M for 5 years, is that a good contract?

What would you pay for Beltran and Thornton, and how much do you really think they tip the balance, for the playoff chase in 2012?

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Well....

I want Prince for 7/154 (A-Gon’s contract)

Darvish—no need to speculate. Either we win the bid, or we don’t. I don’t think we will. If we do, it means our scouts think he’s going to be awesome, in which case I think he’s going to be awesome, and I’ll be ridicYulously excited.

Beltran – 2/30. Thornton can be had for cheap.

I think that’s a 5-7 win improvement for the Rangers next year—(I’m extremely skeptical of our CF situation next year).

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 2:46 PM CST up reply actions  

If Fielder's available to the Rangers

for 7/$154M, and they can backload that contract, then I’d do cartwheels if they signed him, and consider leading the pitchfork-and-torches brigade if they don’t.

But I can’t believe he’d go that short-and-cheap. I’m seeing 8 years, $200 million mentioned a bunch. Would you do that?

I’m interested in Beltran, though that’s a lot of money on an injury flier, and with Thornton, you’re now talking adding $35 million (even backloaded somewhat) to the 2012 payroll. That’s $140-155 million for 2012.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:52 PM CST up reply actions  

8/200 - no way, jose

He’s just not worth that, and I don’t think Boras can get that from the group of bidders that he has.

Tor is not desperate because they aren’t 1 piece away from making it to the playoffs.

Wash is arguably the same. Cubs, the same.

Tex doesn’t need him, just could use him.

Moreover, none of these teams has the strong incentive to stop the other from getting him. (e.g., Bos v. NYY bidding war). Texas won’t be overly bummed if he signs for 8/200 with Wash and vice versa.

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 2:55 PM CST up reply actions  

If we're at 110 right now

Beltran + Thornton would be another $20M, which puts us as $130 for 2012.

If we get Prince or Yu, I suspect we’re done.

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 2:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Ah, I thought you meant all three:

Fielder, Beltran, and Thornton.

Somehow, I don’t think the Rangers signing Beltran and Thornton is going to change the perception of “cheap” that people are talking about.

I’m still not sure what Beltran’s worth, but given their interest in mid-season, I could see the Rangers making a move on him for the right price…

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 3:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Which is fine,

but then you have to ask the question:

Why did the Rangers not sign Wilson?

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I have nooo idea

It involves so much speculation that I’ve gotten over it.

Nolan wanted it, JD didn’t? Because it was 5 years? Because he’s a weirdo/not Texan? Because they wanted (want) to spend it elsewhere? We’ll see.

Side note: I’ve been extremely impressed that nobody in our clubhouse has come out and complained that our best pitcher just signed with our biggest rival.

I was expecting someone to complain that we should have signed him. Very impressed.

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Who's "we"?

I don’t know how much worse Texas is, at this point, even if they don’t spend any more money. A bit worse, maybe. How much, I don’t know. I’m not panicked about it — I still think this club can win the division, as it’s constituted, and given that, I think a third consecutive trip to the World Series isn’t out of the question. That’s pretty amazing, especially for this ballclub.

Now, if we’re talking “average fans,” your point holds less water, even. “Average fans” said that losing Lee and signing Beltre still meant the team took a step backward. “Average fans” were all over the club about that, and basically said the Rangers were costing themselves a chance to win in 2011.

Oops.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 1:59 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not sure why you are throwing in this average fan strawman

maybe you are talking to someone else.

“We” is the Texas Rangers.

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 2:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Again, "average fan"

came from someone else, talking about why the Rangers look cheap.

As I wrote above, if we’re talking LSB denizens, then I see even less backing for thinking the ownership’s cheap.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:24 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think they are cheap

I just think they could and maybe should do more.

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 2:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Based on what?

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Which is how much?

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Both have billions

With billions of forthcoming revenue.

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 2:46 PM CST up reply actions  

So you want them to spend more

out of their own pockets, basically.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Well,

They’ve already invested heavily in the team. I just want them to invest further, ideally.

If the Rangers turn into the dynasty that we all know they can turn into, they’ll reap the benefits.

Look at the ascension in value of the Mavs and Cowboys.

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 2:57 PM CST up reply actions  

I think they will invest further,

but I don’t think they see 2012 as the last year of the dynasty.

In fact, I think there are arguments to be made that spending big money on long-term contracts in 2012 could keep the dynasty from occurring.

If you’re talking Beltran and Thornton, then that makes more sense to me; on the other hand, part of me can understand the approach of seeing what happens as the season unfolds, and keeping powder dry for the trade deadline.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 3:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Again its perception

I, and many others on here, understand that they are spending way more money than previous ownership.

But their comments about “losing money” to keep payroll where it is and expand it hasn’t played out yet this year.

We had a 18% increase in attendance plus another expected increase for next year (which they will be using for their budget) along with a increase in price for tickets yet the only outward show of spending money is on Joe Nathan.

Bob in Bedford probably doesn’t realize or care that Matt Harrison will go from 500K to 3 million simply because his service time. Al in Arlington probably wont care or realize Elvis will go from 500K to 3 mil because of his service time. Thats what I mean by growing organically.

by bigsteve on Dec 13, 2011 1:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Then I don't much care

what Al in Arlington and Bob in Bedford think, not least because I don’t think it’s going to keep them from the ballpark if the Rangers contend.

As for the “losing money” bit: we have no idea how much of that $92 million payroll required the owners losing money.

We can guess, as we have, by looking at revenue streams and comparing them to the rest of the league. But without the details, we really don’t know. We can either take the owners at their word, or not, about how much they’re spending out of pocket.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 1:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Why would they say they would go to 130 this year, then?

"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11

by hornedfrogs45 on Dec 13, 2011 1:51 PM CST up reply actions  

When did they say that?

I must’ve missed it. Link?

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Here

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/11/08/3510994/rangers-owner-bob-simpson-has.html

He talks about a 40-50 percent payroll increase.

"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11

by hornedfrogs45 on Dec 13, 2011 2:12 PM CST up reply actions  

By 2015...

Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"

Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."

by Gdawg on Dec 13, 2011 2:21 PM CST up reply actions  

By 2015, guy.

Not by 2012.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:24 PM CST up reply actions  

OK.

Well, that’s that.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 2:01 PM CST up reply actions  

x
Half the bids for CJ, saying they won’t bid for Prince, saying they won’t bid for Darvish…..they look very cheap.

I guess I have no understanding of the context or something, or maybe I’m just interpreting what I think the average fan sees and what they think of the front office as a result.

by FuturePants on Dec 13, 2011 1:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 1:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Knowing years in advance that this would be the Year of Darvish

I find it hard to believe that they don’t have money budgeted for a bid, especially after JD went to Japan and got a firsthand look at him.

by MikeEl on Dec 13, 2011 1:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I think you want to believe there isn't a problem.

Me too, but I think there may be a problem. The problem may be as simple as over cautiousness for coming up deals for the Kinslers of the world. Or it may be much more serious.

by FuturePants on Dec 13, 2011 1:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Some guy named Josey mentioned this earlier today.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 2:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Not sure.

All I know is they have definitely not been using it on pieces for the team. *coughCJWilsoncough

by FuturePants on Dec 13, 2011 1:11 PM CST up reply actions  

AJM

Do you get tired of being the voice of reason?

by RangerMad on Dec 13, 2011 11:28 AM CST reply actions  

Six solid points of reason in one post!

Gonna have to lose the ’angrydome" tag if this keeps up.

You can only be young once but can be immature forever!

by Bigfan16 on Dec 13, 2011 12:52 PM CST up reply actions  

misinformation

if there was EVER a time to be coy/dishonest/misleading with your strategy THIS is it. Nothing serves this team better than causing other teams to think we aren’t going to make a substantial bid.

Doesn’t mean not true. Very well could be. I just think we are foolish if we bank on ANYTHING that is being attributed to ANY team when it comes to Yu. Back to your very first point – Rosenthal is a JD ally. This could be (and probably is) planted information.

Jack Daddy

by Jack Daddy on Dec 13, 2011 11:32 AM CST reply actions  

tl;dr

We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11

by Rodney on Dec 13, 2011 11:32 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

Wasn't that long, and even if it was, it's worth reading

I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)

by Gay For Feliz on Dec 13, 2011 12:48 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

It was a joke, sheesh.

We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11

by Rodney on Dec 13, 2011 1:33 PM CST up reply actions  

If not talking to Randy Galloway will make him go away no one should talk to him.

by ferj064 on Dec 13, 2011 11:37 AM CST reply actions  

you guys think this is really signed by the son of judeska and chesmond?

"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011

"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011

by I am Neftali Feliz on Dec 13, 2011 11:37 AM CST reply actions  

oops

bat

"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011

"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011

by I am Neftali Feliz on Dec 13, 2011 11:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Definetely not

No way would I bid even the ten bucks on that.

My mind just says throw ball throw hard and strike. - Marteen

by Keynes on Dec 13, 2011 11:45 AM CST up reply actions  

They really have to give Greenberg all his money back at one time?

They can’t work out a deal in which he gets more, but over a period of a few years? I’m not pissed that they’re not in on Fielder or Darvish and weren’t in on Pujols. I’m pissed that they couldn’t keep Wilson at what turned out to be a reasonable figure. I’m pissed that they didn’t get Buerhle if CJ isn’t the guy they wanted.

Sure, payroll is going up, but the team lost a big piece. Biggest threat got that piece and added another. This is some dire shit.

by Black Francis on Dec 13, 2011 11:37 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

you think shit like this would just be a sunk cost.

"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011

"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011

by I am Neftali Feliz on Dec 13, 2011 11:38 AM CST up reply actions  

They do the same thing with everyone else so I don't see why not with Greenberg.

I’m actually pretty surprised that’s not the case already.

"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, jonthefon, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas

by Mike E on Dec 13, 2011 3:25 PM CST up reply actions  

If I was JD

I would lock up “the core” this summer and save my FA spending money for next summer when TORP like Greinke, Cain, and Hamels are FAs. If you were the Yankees, then you’d try and get Darvish and Prince this summer and Greinke next, but we can’t do that. Instead, lock up the core now and see if we catch lightning in a bottle this year. Next year, get Greinke.

by das06h on Dec 13, 2011 11:46 AM CST reply actions  

I like this idea as well...

lockup Napoli, Kinsler and Andrus and then make a strong run at Greinke or Hamels next year.

This is what I’d love to see happen, but extending those guys is easier said than done, especially Elvis.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Dec 13, 2011 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Well.....

Greinke is going to be 29 after next season….he makes 9 mil this season….I think he will command Weaver money (5/85) at least. 29 is perilously close to that red line of 30 that the FO appears to dislike. He would be a TORP but I’m concerned the FO won’t pursue him because of his age.
Cole Hamels will be 28 after next season and will probably command $12 or $13 mil/season but is he really a TORP here?
Matt Cain will be 28 after next season…he already makes about $9 mil/season and will probably command $14 or $14 mil/season but is he really a TORP here either?
Shouldn’t the big money be for FA pitching for the Rangers be concentrated on top of the rotation pitchers rather than middle of the rotation guys?

My point is that I would rather see them use money on a FA bat than FA pitching…fine, if they can’t/don’t want to afford Darvish, so be it. But in the end, I think they should at least sign Fielder…he addresses a need and, as Adam suggests, the contract could be back-loaded for when the TV money gets here.

"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

by GhostofSteveFoucault on Dec 13, 2011 12:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Wow.

So Hamels is a MORP in Arlington.

If that’s the case, then the Rangers better just stay away from free-agent pitchers, period. Explains the Wilson non-signing, for sure.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 12:13 PM CST up reply actions  

That's why I'm asking....is he?

I’m not convinced he would be….

"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

by GhostofSteveFoucault on Dec 13, 2011 12:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Hamels is one of the best pitchers in the game.

Better than anyone we’ve had in a while.

Cain would be an issue potentially because his numbers don’t make sense.

But Hamels is legit.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:17 PM CST up reply actions  

I guess the home runs could be a red flag with Hamels,

but he’s upped his GB% a bunch. (That’s assuming we can depend on that stat from FanGraphs, of course — maybe not that safe an assumption.)

And if you keep guys off base the way he does, the home runs tend not to hurt you as much, right?

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 12:20 PM CST up reply actions  

You're right.

Should’ve looked at Stat Corner first.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 12:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Ok...just looked at his 2011 numbers....I was wrong.....

He’s just nicely tucked away behind Halladay and Lee….

"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

by GhostofSteveFoucault on Dec 13, 2011 12:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Hamels is getting more than 12 or 13 mil/season.

Unless the economy crashes and no teams have any money.

by casew on Dec 13, 2011 12:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Unless he has a terrible year or gets hurt, Hamels is gonna get 17-20 million per.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 12:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Good grief.....how much money did Jared Weaver leave on the table by

signing for 5/85?

"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

by GhostofSteveFoucault on Dec 13, 2011 12:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Probably $30M.

SoCal is a nice place.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:32 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Sure.

But till then… that weather and the scenery (of the female variety) is hard to complain about.

There are other things to complain about… but I imagine being a rich athlete makes them less bothersome.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Liberals

I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)

by Gay For Feliz on Dec 13, 2011 12:53 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Orange County.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 12:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Liberals

I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)

by Gay For Feliz on Dec 13, 2011 1:02 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Orange County's one of the most politically conservative areas

in the country.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 1:04 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I was talking about Cali as a whole

…and I just really hate liberals

I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)

by Gay For Feliz on Dec 13, 2011 1:09 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I am atheist

And I don’t hate religious types. Never understood that gang mentality.

c’est la vie

At least I get to see the Rangers when they play the Twins now.

by TargetField on Dec 13, 2011 1:15 PM CST up reply actions  

I was talking about the southern California,

and you should see someone about that.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 1:16 PM CST up reply actions  

"the southern California?"

the

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 1:17 PM CST up reply actions  

See someone about what?

I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)

by Gay For Feliz on Dec 13, 2011 1:30 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

That should be the real definition of "Tebowing"

Hating on someone you don’t know cause of a trait that has no effect on you.

At least I get to see the Rangers when they play the Twins now.

by TargetField on Dec 13, 2011 1:33 PM CST up reply actions  

I get it more with individual celebrities

who go on TV to make ads that cut against your policy preferences, especially when those policies deal with what you view as privacy rights and such.

Not so much with entire populations.

Disagree with, sure. Hate? I don’t get it.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 1:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I hate their views

I don’t hate them as people.

I forget that people on here don’t know me, and how I think (if you want to call what I do thinking.)

I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)

by Gay For Feliz on Dec 13, 2011 6:10 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Ha!

You don’t know the half of it

I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)

by Gay For Feliz on Dec 13, 2011 1:09 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I'd guess he might have left even more on the table

Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"

Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."

by Gdawg on Dec 13, 2011 12:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Very possibly.

I’d put $30M as the floor.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Are you thinking he would have gotten a longer deal?

Or a 5 year deal just at 23 mil per year instead of 17?

by bigsteve on Dec 13, 2011 1:11 PM CST up reply actions  

I was thinking like 6 / $115

he’s not that old.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 1:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah just wondering

I couldn’t see him getting 23 per but I could easily see him getting a 6 year deal.

Teams were offering Cliff 6 last year and he was older than Weaver will be

by bigsteve on Dec 13, 2011 1:21 PM CST up reply actions  

That would be my guess

but also, Weaver is the type of pitcher who would get that mystery team to blow everyone away with an offer.

Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"

Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."

by Gdawg on Dec 13, 2011 1:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I love Texas.

But if I was wealthy… I’d live in SoCal. I love 70 degree days.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 1:17 PM CST up reply actions  

One of the things I think about though...

Is that summer is the time I don’t want to be in Texas… but I can’t imagine leaving the Rangers during their season.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 1:18 PM CST up reply actions  

If you're wealthy...

just go to the summer house when the Rangers are out of town and watch on mlb.tv.

You’re welcome.

by DFWAg on Dec 13, 2011 1:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Hah!

That’s a large part of the reason why California sucks.

The housing prices are batsh!t insane….

Stupid Prop 13….

by Requiem on Dec 14, 2011 3:15 AM CST up reply actions  

I'd give Greinke or Hamels 5/90-100.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Dec 13, 2011 12:23 PM CST up reply actions  

The problem is that nobody knows what "the core" means for this team.

If you include Hamilton in “the core,” then no thanks.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 12:42 PM CST up reply actions  

To me the core is Kinsler/Andrus/Beltre/Holland/Feliz

and maybe Napoli.

Everyone else is tradeable/expendable.

by MikeEl on Dec 13, 2011 12:45 PM CST up reply actions  

I can agree with that.

And Beltre is already locked up.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 12:47 PM CST up reply actions  

x

Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"

Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."

by Gdawg on Dec 13, 2011 12:53 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Heh

I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)

by Gay For Feliz on Dec 13, 2011 12:57 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Ogando, yes.

Cruz… not so much. He old and breaks easily. And strikes out a lot.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:49 PM CST up reply actions  

They consider Hamilton that too probably.

We’re talking about us.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I would be fine with a Cruz extension that locked up cost certainty for his 2 arb years left

And then gave him a modest 1 year FA salary.

However anything longer than that would be too much right now IMO.

but again something like that wouldn’t really be spending money since his arb salaries are likely already factored into the next 2 years budgets

by bigsteve on Dec 13, 2011 1:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Feliz

makes the most sense as a trade chip, IMO. I think he probably has more trade value than Ogando, despite having less years of team control and less likelihood of becoming a valuable starter.

"I think we just have to wait and see how things shake its way out," -- Wash

by tricer on Dec 13, 2011 5:43 PM CST up reply actions  

There's basically no way they trade Feliz at this point.

Signing Nathan, moving Feliz to the rotation, and letting Wilson walk all strike me as signs that that Texas isn’t down on Feliz’s likelihood of becoming a valuable starter…

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 5:46 PM CST up reply actions  

well I think the emotional breakdown in the WS cost him the trust of Ron Washington

so we needed a closer and targeted Nathan.

At that point the only way that Feliz holds his value (and his confidence, if he isn’t traded) is to announce that he is moving to the rotation, as opposed to saying that he is moving to a set up role in the bullpen because we don’t trust him to close for us any longer.

In other words I think the announced move of Feliz to rotation was mostly related to the signing of Nathan, rather than the clubs belief that he can develop as a starter.

Another point is that the timeline for him to contribute as a TORP, if that is to happen is a couple of years down the road which requires development time that doesn’t coincide with a team trying to close out a championship. I think that another team (Cincy loves flame throwers) will see him as a potential controllable TORP and value him in trade as such. if I could clearly improve another area of the team by moving him I would sure consider it.

"I think we just have to wait and see how things shake its way out," -- Wash

by tricer on Dec 13, 2011 6:12 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree with this:
if I could clearly improve another area of the team by moving him I would sure consider it.

The rest of it… well, I don’t think it’s necessarily implausible, but I just don’t have the evidence I’d need to buy it.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 6:18 PM CST up reply actions  

what would you guess his contribution would be over the next 2 years?

I’m just guessing that there might be someone out there that would value him highly enough to give up a couple years of a proven stud position player that would mean a lot more to the team over the next couple seasons than what I expect Feliz to do in a limited innings #5 starter/swing man type role.

Let me ask you this… if there was a trade that really made sense and you had to headline it with an elite talent or multiple elite prospects… who would you most prefer to be the one element of the deal that really hurts going away..

"I think we just have to wait and see how things shake its way out," -- Wash

by tricer on Dec 13, 2011 6:23 PM CST up reply actions  

So, couple different things here.

First is that I don’t think Feliz, by himself, brings the sort of proven stud position player you’re talking about. I know you didn’t say he did, but that’s the point of departure for me.

So, we’re talking about a package deal. Say, if the Rangers had a line on a guy like Votto, say, and were given permission to negotiate an extension? Yeah, I wouldn’t be shocked or dismayed if Feliz was a headliner of that package, and it’s hard for me to think of a guy with (likely) similar perceived value in the Rangers system, never mind one I’d prefer to see them give up.

Now, in terms of what I think Feliz can given the Rangers in the next two years? I think there’s a big, big range: in terms of WAR, I’d put my range at 1.5 – 8.0, I think, so a point estimate of 4.625 WAR?

I put the question mark at the end because this sort of thing is so speculative, and I haven’t put as much thought into as I eventually will, I imagine…

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 6:28 PM CST up reply actions  

My math on that point estimate was slightly off,

but whatever. No real difference.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 6:32 PM CST up reply actions  

I think you're assuming a lot that we have no evidence to show.

Particularly with regard to the Rangers reaction to Feliz’s supposed “breakdown.”

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 7:13 PM CST up reply actions  

he was "too emotional to go back in the game"

I think he was crying and refused to go back out after he blew the save, at least that is what I’ve heard.

I don’t think Wash will ever rely on him again as closer because of it.

"I think we just have to wait and see how things shake its way out," -- Wash

by tricer on Dec 13, 2011 7:46 PM CST up reply actions  

So at the front of a big package?

OK, I guess I could see that. But I have to imagine it would take lots more than Feliz to get a guy like Votto or Kershaw — and probably Johnson, for that matter…

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 5:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Right.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 6:03 PM CST up reply actions  

(Meaning: I agree.)

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 6:04 PM CST up reply actions  

I would really love to trade for Votto, and I could see Feliz being a part of that deal

Maybe the Rangers do a thing where they negotiate an extension for Votto before they trade him. Then I’d also be willing to include Perez and maybe Olt.

by MikeEl on Dec 13, 2011 6:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Harrison could be approaching core status.

I think we underrate how good he was at times this season.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 12:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Now if we can get JBI to admit he underrates Holland we can have world peace.

I definitely think people underrate Harrison.

Look at Harrison’s 2011 compared to C.J.’s 2010.

I’m very curious how Harrison does in 2012… I don’t think he’ll break out. But I think he can be a consistent 3.5+ pitcher.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Especially if he keeps reading

I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)

by Gay For Feliz on Dec 13, 2011 12:57 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

He's going to do even better next season

what’s one notch above core?

Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"

Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."

by Gdawg on Dec 13, 2011 12:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Supercore.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Lol

I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)

by Gay For Feliz on Dec 13, 2011 1:07 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Hardcore

/oldnickname

We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11

by Rodney on Dec 13, 2011 1:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Harrison was good

But I keep wondering if he’s just another Big Game Hunter. His peripherals are better but I wonder.

Football can go to hell. The Rangers aren't ready for football season and neither am I.

by WyoRanger on Dec 13, 2011 1:59 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

His peripherals and his stuff are much better.

3.39 ERA with a 3.52 FIP and a 3.85 xFIP. That’s a legitimate talent.

Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"

Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."

by Gdawg on Dec 13, 2011 2:01 PM CST up reply actions  

His peripherals are MUCH better.

Tommy Hunters K per 9 innings was lower than his Sandwiches per 9 hours

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 2:01 PM CST up reply actions  

We could probably find that out from the food services people.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 2:14 PM CST up reply actions  

It's funny about Hamilton...

some in LSB don’t consider him to be a part of the core but the last thing they want to do is trade him….“because we need him if we’re gonna win.”

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 12:55 PM CST up reply actions  

This year.

It’s a false dichotomy to say we either keep him forever or trade him now. We keep him through this year and then let someone else overpay him.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 12:58 PM CST up reply actions  

The Window closes if This Thing lets go of Josh.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 12:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Bookmark this.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 1:00 PM CST up reply actions  

its the dumbest argument of the all

NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development

Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM

by shock00 on Dec 13, 2011 1:07 PM CST up reply actions  

The all

Similar to the Iraq, no?

We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11

by Rodney on Dec 13, 2011 1:37 PM CST up reply actions  

*them all

NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development

Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM

by shock00 on Dec 13, 2011 1:39 PM CST up reply actions  

No

It closes when we let go of MY

I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)

by Gay For Feliz on Dec 13, 2011 1:07 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

When MY leaves

That window is fucking wide ass open for the next 30-40 years.

Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11

by boomer1 on Dec 13, 2011 1:11 PM CST up reply actions  

It'll be a door

I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)

by Gay For Feliz on Dec 13, 2011 1:12 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Or a porthole to the future.

Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11

by boomer1 on Dec 13, 2011 1:18 PM CST up reply actions  

This Thing?

This is not an inanimate object. It is a baseball team. If it is the world series chances, or the championship chance, please say that. If Josh is going to have another year like he did this year, it will be tough to say he will make that difference in a championship run. He was not a selective hitter, and didn’t hit nearly the number of home runs per at bat like he did in 2010. The difference between 2010 and 2011 was basically the difference between the best hitter in baseball, and a better than average hitter in baseball.

Maybe a team can take that kind of roller coaster performance ever other year, but you can’t overpay for somebody like that if he is going to do the great year every third year. And with his health/injury considerations, he is not worth $15 million a year for four or five years, even if somebody else pays it.

That being said, I hope Josh finishes out his career in Texas…just not if he is underperforming for $15 per year.

by Philar on Dec 13, 2011 1:26 PM CST up reply actions  

We want him, but we know the contract he wants is ridiculous

I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)

by Gay For Feliz on Dec 13, 2011 12:58 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

He might want*

I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)

by Gay For Feliz on Dec 13, 2011 12:58 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

So we can't sign Josh either because of the ridiculous contract

handed out last off-season?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 12:59 PM CST up reply actions  

So you're blaming things happening two years later on Beltre's contract now?

Fucking hell, how far are you willing to go to avenge Young?

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 1:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Young and Beltre each make 16 mil per

Yet its Beltre’s contract that is preventing things from happening

by bigsteve on Dec 13, 2011 1:14 PM CST up reply actions  

I'll take WAR/$ for 16,000,000 Alex.

We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11

by Rodney on Dec 13, 2011 1:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Young received his deal before both Josh arrived and before CJ became a starter.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 2:52 PM CST up reply actions  

So, if you could go back in time...

you’d let Cliff walk, and you’d NOT sign Beltre (knowing what you know, now)…

just so you could extend Josh and/or CJ?

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 2:59 PM CST up reply actions  

My greatest fear with signing Beltre was what it would do

to our chances of signing not only CJ but Josh to an extension.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 3:29 PM CST up reply actions  

If you could go back, knowing what you know now...

would you have signed Beltre or kept the team as-is?

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 3:30 PM CST up reply actions  

If signing Beltre meant I couldn't extend CJ, I don't sign Beltre.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 3:32 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

wow.................................................

"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

by GhostofSteveFoucault on Dec 13, 2011 3:36 PM CST up reply actions  

WAT

"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11

by hornedfrogs45 on Dec 13, 2011 3:37 PM CST up reply actions  

We still easily win the AL West last year without Beltre.

On December 13, we should no longer be favored to win the AL West next year and CJ plying his craft in Cali next season is a big reason why.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 3:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Part of that is them adding Pujols, Borjous having another year

under his belt and possibly having Trout for a full season. If they had just signed CJ, we’re still the favorites.

"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11

by hornedfrogs45 on Dec 13, 2011 3:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Of course

Because the great MY would have played third base flawlessly, right?

by Rangers Fan Mike on Dec 13, 2011 3:42 PM CST up reply actions  

You cup those balls of hindsight, Josey.

You cup them strong.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 3:58 PM CST up reply actions  

things I've learned today

Balls of Hinsight
Money Penis

NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development

Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM

by shock00 on Dec 13, 2011 4:01 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

*Hindsight

NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development

Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM

by shock00 on Dec 13, 2011 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

I thought that was Ace's work.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 4:03 PM CST up reply actions  

no idea but they are genius

NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development

Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM

by shock00 on Dec 13, 2011 4:07 PM CST up reply actions  

It was.

Best thing he’s ever done.

Possibly the only thing he’s ever done.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 4:14 PM CST up reply actions  

I thought things like BoH were below your mature taste.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 4:08 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm curious how my comment that they've been around indicates

anything other than I believe I’ve seen it posted before?

by DFWAg on Dec 13, 2011 4:18 PM CST up reply actions  

We'll have to see this play out and whether or not

the Rangers are able to improve the team or extend Josh, Napoli or Cobra but right now it looks like the Beltre signing cost us CJ.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 3:50 PM CST up reply actions  

We had that in 2010 without Beltre

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 4:00 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm just curious

but how come you keep talking about signing all these over 30-year-old players to long term extensions? i thought you saw the FO’s biggest challenge to get in new players that are good/elite that are under the age of 30 …

by CO Ranger on Dec 13, 2011 3:53 PM CST up reply actions  

That is the front office's greatest challenge

and the organization’s greatest weakness.

Getting rid of your best pitcher (to the LAAAA Angels no less!!!!!!) is not the solution.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

He was 31.

Well outside your criteria.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 4:05 PM CST up reply actions  

*is 31.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 4:07 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm looking for more every day players.

not pitchers, aged 24-28.

Apparently we’re moving too fast for Aqua.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 4:09 PM CST up reply actions  

So pitchers can violate your arbitrary guidelines, but position players can't.

Even when they made great additions to our team, like Beltre did this year.

Got it, you’re still full of shit.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 4:12 PM CST up reply actions  

One year of Beltre would have been

fine but since he’s here for the next several years with a ridiculous contract, we can’t afford to pay our own free agents.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 4:15 PM CST up reply actions  

A ridiculous contract he's already earned more than Michael Young ever did.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 4:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Michael Young was here before

Josh became a Ranger or CJ became a starter.

Try again.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 4:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Money is money.

His contract is equally prohibitive this year (which is to to say, not at all) for what this team is trying to do.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

How do hold the Umbrella of Protection

while still cupping JD’s Balls of Hindsight?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 4:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Originality is a real bitch for you.

Put down the Big Chief tablets and come back with something I didn’t say to you five minutes ago.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 4:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe the "not at all" part isn't true.

Both players are making substantial sums of money. If the Rangers didn’t have either of them, they’d have more money to spend. But we have no reason to believe that in the absence of those obligations, the Rangers would have signed CJ or extended Hamilton (which they might still do).

I don’t see why it is so hard for you to face facts on why CJ isn’t here anymore: Nolan liked Buehrle better.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 4:22 PM CST up reply actions  

When are you going to let JD be

a real GM and take blame like all the other GMs do?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 4:33 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Where did you say that?

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 3:57 PM CST up reply actions  

You have the time to suck on that bottle of research, sport.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 4:02 PM CST up reply actions  

And we're forced to assume that you didn't.

Fair enough.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 4:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Step back, Joy Behar's screaming about her twat being sore again.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 4:10 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Your little obsession with talking about yourself in the third person is weird.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 4:12 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not referencing myself.

“NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.”

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 4:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Joy Behar is Italian.

Real name, Josephina Victoria Occhiuto.

And when her twat is sore I imagine she screams “NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.”

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 4:39 PM CST up reply actions  

I know she's not Jewish.

You didn’t, though.

That’s twice.

Why did you assume she’s Jewish, by the way?

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 4:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Hard to say what the context of that thread was

or what I was thinking or trying to convey but I’ve known for a while that she’s Italian.

She’s an old whiny bag and as repulsive and obnoxious as any woman I’ve seen.

Calling you Joy Behar was a pretty easy way to pull you offside even though she’s Italian.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 4:51 PM CST up reply actions  

The context of both threads is clear.

They’re lists of Jewish people — or, at least, people you thought were Jewish.

So I’ll repeat the question: why did you assume Joy Behar was Jewish, and why are you trying to pretend you didn’t now?

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 4:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Your question was answered.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 4:58 PM CST up reply actions  

No it wasn't.

The question stands: why did you include Joy Behar in lists of Jewish people — twice?

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 4:59 PM CST up reply actions  

According to some around here

that would mean you’re the problem since you respond to him.

Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"

Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."

by Gdawg on Dec 13, 2011 5:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh?

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 5:09 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't know why I still am, but I must admit

I’m always a little surprised that AJM just lets Josey go around trolling when he openly admits to posting just to get a rise out of people.

Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"

Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."

by Gdawg on Dec 13, 2011 5:12 PM CST up reply actions  

I tend not to respond anymore

unless I catch something I think needs to be called out or set straight. I’d ignore that stuff, too, but I’d feel like an enabler, then. Tough call.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 5:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Too bad you didn't know about Joy Behar.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 5:19 PM CST up reply actions  

We like Josh now while he's young, and is being paid reasonably

We don’t want to give an aging injury prone player 100m+ this offseason or next offseason.

I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)

by Gay For Feliz on Dec 13, 2011 1:06 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

JW....you really cannot be that ignorant can you?

NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development

Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM

by shock00 on Dec 13, 2011 1:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh, he can

And he will

I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)

by Gay For Feliz on Dec 13, 2011 1:10 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Come on you know the answer to this one.

Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11

by boomer1 on Dec 13, 2011 1:12 PM CST up reply actions  

i know. ....i need to stop replying.

NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development

Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM

by shock00 on Dec 13, 2011 1:15 PM CST up reply actions  

I think he's just trying to honk some tits

or whatever the hell that creepy old fuck does.

Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"

Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."

by Gdawg on Dec 13, 2011 1:51 PM CST up reply actions  

why do you keep saying summer?

"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, jonthefon, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas

by Mike E on Dec 13, 2011 3:26 PM CST up reply actions  

John Raulston Saul:
Panic: A highly underrated capacity thanks to which individuals are able to indicate clearly that something is wrong…. Given their head, most humans panic with great dignity and imagination. This can be called democratic expression or practical common sense.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 11:50 AM CST reply actions  

*Ralston

Sorry ’bout that, John.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 11:51 AM CST up reply actions  

What happened to the "signing bonus" money that everybody was mentioning when the tv deal first came out?
The new TV deal doesn’t go into effect to until the current one expires after the 2014 season. The “signing bonus” of say, $80 million, will be delivered before next season.

link1

The deal doesn’t kick in for 3½ more years, and Ryan says the team doesn’t want to spend future money. “We’re operating in a prudent way, in the best interests of the organization,” he said.

But the team’s actions suggest more aggressive measures. The Rangers received an undisclosed up-front bonus for inking the deal, which they applied toward making a run at re-signing Cliff Lee.

link 2

by MikeEl on Dec 13, 2011 11:51 AM CST reply actions  

New scoreboard and rennovations last year.

Probably resolved a lot of inherited debt from the bankruptcy proceedings.

Probably helped us get Leonys, Mazara, Guzman and the LHP who’s name I can’t remember.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 11:54 AM CST up reply actions  

Johander

My mind just says throw ball throw hard and strike. - Marteen

by Keynes on Dec 13, 2011 11:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Lohander

He’s not a jeft handed pitcher…duh.

We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11

by Rodney on Dec 13, 2011 12:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Makes sense I guess. Seems to me that many of those expenditures should have come out of the normal operating budget

and that much of the $80 million would have been reserved for other uses. I can see some of that being spent on the ballpark renovations, but I’d think they would have saved a chunk for Darvish posting fee.

by MikeEl on Dec 13, 2011 12:22 PM CST up reply actions  

For a team coming out of bankruptcy...

There were probably tons of things that needed attention across the board. Possibly even reimbursing MLB for operating overhead during bankruptcy (pure guess on my part, may not be true).

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:24 PM CST up reply actions  

30 mil to Greenberg

12 mil for the CF club
10 mil or so for the new video board last year

by bigsteve on Dec 13, 2011 11:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Don't forget the LA signings.

We spent almost $15m there in upfront money.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 11:56 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah and thats gonna upset me I think

God I hope those kids pan out. But given the likelihood of that if Mazara costs us prince and Mazara never makes it past AA its gonna sting a lot

by bigsteve on Dec 13, 2011 11:57 AM CST up reply actions  

No one player will have cost us Prince

Fielder will take a lot of money to get here. A few million dollars given to Mazara or Guzman is nothing compared to the commitment for Fielder. The entire strategy to invest in LA players over the past few years might be more influential but still probably isn’t the lone reason the team can’t (easily) afford a $180 million contract.

Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"

Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."

by Gdawg on Dec 13, 2011 12:57 PM CST up reply actions  

On players who aren't even seen as elite prospects.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11

by hornedfrogs45 on Dec 13, 2011 11:59 AM CST up reply actions  

So you disagree with Parks.

On what basis?

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 12:04 PM CST up reply actions  

I went off what Keith Law said on Guzman.
Saw him. He’s a long way off. Floored at the money he got – big kid, big frame, awkward swing, doesn’t show great hand strength. Granted, there’s always sniping at big-bonus Latin American guys from clubs that lost out in the bidding, but there was an exceptional amount after he and Mazara signed.

"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11

by hornedfrogs45 on Dec 13, 2011 12:07 PM CST up reply actions  

And Mazara?

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 12:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Also, this is Parks on Guzman:
1B Ronald Guzman: I’ve never seen a 16 year-old swing the bat like Guzman did during the instructional league, and even though it’s a small sample, I trust my eyes enough to recognize his star potential. Not the tooliest athlete on the team, at least compared to the athletic behemoth that is Jordan Akins, but Guzman’s offensive tools have near elite potential at their peak. His developmental path will no doubt lead to ups and downs along the way, and as a result the on-the-field production might not always accurately portray the tool-based ceiling. But trust me. This kid is very special and if everything breaks right, his offensive ceiling is in the Eric Hosmer range.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 12:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Apologies to the Professor if that was too large a quote to pull,

given the paywall. Should’ve been more thoughtful before cutting, pasting, and posting.

Sorry, Jason. AJM, please feel free to delete.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 12:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Here's what he said on Mazara (though he's going off of what his fellow scouts have said)
Lot of power, lot of holes is the report I’ve gotten

"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11

by hornedfrogs45 on Dec 13, 2011 12:28 PM CST up reply actions  

That's not the only thing he's said, actually.

In October, he noted that at first inspection, he thought the the price had been too high, but that it’s too soon to tell, and that while [Mazara’s] not as advanced (in the present) as Ronnie Guzman… the power potential gives him an elite ceiling and buys a lot of developmental patience."

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 12:31 PM CST up reply actions  

That was just what he tweeted to me, my bad.

"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11

by hornedfrogs45 on Dec 13, 2011 12:32 PM CST up reply actions  

I think there's still argument to be had

about whether either Guzman or Mazara is an “elite” prospect — but it really depends on how you define “elite.”

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 12:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Should be a " before [Mazara's], there.

That last couple lines is a direct quote.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 12:33 PM CST up reply actions  

You've really been a beating the last week or so.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Dec 13, 2011 12:08 PM CST up reply actions  

He's been a beating for sometime now.

Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11

by boomer1 on Dec 13, 2011 12:09 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm sorry.

I’m pissed the Rangers let an elite starting pitcher go to the Angels for a pretty friendly deal.

SORRY BRO

"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11

by hornedfrogs45 on Dec 13, 2011 12:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Is what it is

I have been with this team since the mid 70’s. I have seen much worse seasons/off seasons. I still feel very good about this team.

Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11

by boomer1 on Dec 13, 2011 12:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Well...

I wouldn’t call C.J. elite. C.J. was very good… if he were elite, he’d have gotten 100+M from multiple suitors.

Also… 77.5 isn’t friendly… it’s just not unreasonable. $60M would have been friendly.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:21 PM CST up reply actions  

x

Halladay
Lee
Kershaw
CC
Felix
Weaver
Haren
Verlander

The only pitchers with a higher fWAR than Wilson these past two seasons.

"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11

by hornedfrogs45 on Dec 13, 2011 12:24 PM CST up reply actions  

And every single one of them would have multiple $100+M offers from teams.

As well as some of the ones below C.J.

Very good is very good. But I don’t think C.J. was elite. I didn’t before we didn’t sign him either.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Are you taking age into consideration?

Or that WAR overrates him?

"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11

by hornedfrogs45 on Dec 13, 2011 12:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Age

And that he doesn’t have as long a track record of success so it’s hard to project him with as stable numbers as those other guys around him.

I think 2011 was a career year for C.J. I don’t expect him (though he might) to approach 6 WAR again. I see him as a 4 to 5 WAR pitcher.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:28 PM CST up reply actions  

I think CJ said it best. Why can't he get better?

His control can improve with additional experience as a starter. He’s stayed in impeccable shape.

"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11

by hornedfrogs45 on Dec 13, 2011 12:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Of course he can.

But probability says he won’t.

I mean… Derek Holland might turn into the best pitcher in baseball next year. But he probably won’t.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Also...

Using your emotions and desire to project against the odds behavior is why casino’s exist (and do rather well).

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:31 PM CST up reply actions  

CJ is 31yo

just how much improve can he make? 2011 will end up being his ‘career year’.

by RangerMad on Dec 13, 2011 12:36 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not going to be shocked if he wins a Cy Young in the next 3 years.

He’s a really good pitcher and selling him short doesn’t have much of a future in it.

Letting him go …especially to the Angels…was a major organization fuck-up.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 12:38 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Waaaay out there on a limb.

Not having to log 100 IPs in Texas will do nothing but help him.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 12:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I said

“I’m not going to be shocked…” I didn’t say I was willing to bet.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 12:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not going to be shocked if he does

win it…going to a bad-ass team and he had a 2.50 ERA away from Arlington the last two years.

He’s gonna kill it with the Angels.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 12:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Can we get a thread for this?

It’s ridiculous that we have to have this conversation every single day.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 12:48 PM CST up reply actions  

I'll give you 50-1 odds that he doesn't.

Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"

Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."

by Gdawg on Dec 13, 2011 1:00 PM CST up reply actions  

CJ was supposedly offered 6/96 by the Marlins.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 12:25 PM CST up reply actions  

x
he’d have gotten 100+M from multiple suitors

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:27 PM CST up reply actions  

So a $ 96 million offer means somebody is not "elite"?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 12:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Marlins are offering stupid money.

Anyone else in baseball other than them think Mark Buehrle is worth $58M?

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Personal choice.

I’m trying not to argue… but I found two points I decided to correct.

Why aren’t you asking that question of everyone else?

I spent three days not replying to Josey once… and still arguments everywhere.

I don’t know why I am the asshole that people have to vocalize their displeasure with reasoned arguments with.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Because you seem logical and smart enough to avoid it.

I understand why other people, including myself, do it most of the time.

by DFWAg on Dec 13, 2011 12:38 PM CST up reply actions  

What the fuck are you doing now?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 12:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Still hope the Baylor campus burns down?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 2:53 PM CST up reply actions  

You need to calm down.

You’re LSJing like crazy lately.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 12:43 PM CST up reply actions  

And $ 15 million to Beltre

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 11:59 AM CST up reply actions  

*14M

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:01 PM CST up reply actions  

BRef says $ 15 million but whatevs.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 12:14 PM CST up reply actions  

x

years/$80M (2011-15), plus 2016 option

signed by Texas as a free agent 1/5/11
11:$14M, 12:$15M, 13:$16M, 14:$17M, 15:$18M, 16:$16M voidable option
Texas may void 2016 season if Beltre fails to reach 1,200 PAs in 2014-15 or 600 PAs 2015
if option vests and Beltre is on Disabled List at end of 2015 season and not healthy by spring 2016, club may defer $12M of 2016 salary at 1% interest
award bonus: $0.1M for Gold Glove

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:15 PM CST up reply actions  

This is the first time I've ever seen that deferral piece of the 2016 vesting portion.

I don’t think he’ll vest anyway (his PA in 2011 were only 525, very reasonable he won’t meet the requirements in four years) but even if it does… we can defer it at a fairly reasonable rate.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:17 PM CST up reply actions  

We've already seen something bad happen in his first year

with him missing a month of playing time (with an injury he doesn’t have a bad history with). And even with that missed time, he was still as valuable as anyone could have hoped for. Beltre is looking like he’s going to be a great investment, at least as far as FAs go.

Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"

Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."

by Gdawg on Dec 13, 2011 1:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I read this incorrectly

Option can only be deferred if he’s on the DL.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Still...

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 12:54 PM CST up reply actions  

That likely didn't come from the bonus money

That came from the increased revenue due to the attendance bump from having a winning team

by bigsteve on Dec 13, 2011 12:01 PM CST up reply actions  

How would you know that?

If they were willing to use it on Cliff Lee and didn’t, doesn’t that make you think they may have used some of it on Beltre?

"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11

by hornedfrogs45 on Dec 13, 2011 12:03 PM CST up reply actions  

We wanted to defer a ton of money with Cliff Lee.

That was about long term debt… not spending a cash amount.

And that’s true of all the player salaries that are distributed throughout the year.

It’s not like we gave Beltre $14M in January.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Like a fly to shit.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Dec 13, 2011 12:08 PM CST up reply actions  

you're going to beat this to holy hell aren't you?

NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development

Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM

by shock00 on Dec 13, 2011 12:42 PM CST up reply actions  

It seems to me the economics of the ownership group has changed.

Why would they have invested so much in upgrading the video board and sound system last year, and the construction of the entertainment complex behind center field this year, if they knew they would have difficulty just keeping the core of the team together? Something doesn’t smell right to me.

Also, I went online to research the terms of their new TV deal and got confused. I’d always heard that the deal was $1.6B over 20 years ($80MM a year), but USA Today’s website and NBC Sports website both quote it at $3B over 20 years ($150MM a year). How did 2 national media outlets get it wrong?

by Rangers Fan Mike on Dec 13, 2011 11:55 AM CST reply actions  

They aren't having difficulty just keeping the core of the team together at all.

They’ll have a $110-$115M payroll probably.

We didn’t keep C.J., but the there is logic to not giving a 31 year old pitcher a 5 year deal worth almost $80M. There’s logic to giving it to him too… but plenty of guys like C.J. walk from clubs.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 11:57 AM CST up reply actions  

You're right.

I should have said they’d have their hands full instead of saying they’d have difficulty. I just meant they don’t have the big payroll budget we thought they had.

by Rangers Fan Mike on Dec 13, 2011 12:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah its almost like they are sprucing up the place to flip it to someone else

I know thats not the real reason as we needed upgrades to the videoboard very badly but thats the feeling now with all these other reports coming out

by bigsteve on Dec 13, 2011 12:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Heh... there's no real basis (as you acknowledged)

The lightbrite scoreboard was a joke. We looked like a minor league club with those capabilities.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep

And Chuck Morgan has said before how he was trying to get Hicks to upgrade that thing for years.

Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"

Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."

by Gdawg on Dec 13, 2011 1:05 PM CST up reply actions  

So if these financial rumors are true...

Then there is no way they extend Hamilton on a big money deal this off-season, right? At least we don’t have to worry about that. But if they also are in no position to improve the team through FA then I have changed my position on trading Hamilton. They need to do it now. Before I thought they would add a piece or 2 and it would make sense to hold on to Josh for another run. Doesn’t make as much sense to me now.

Life is pain - we've got to scrape the joy from it every chance we get.

by jshcmp on Dec 13, 2011 11:57 AM CST reply actions  

Depends on how far reaching the financial problems are

If they are truly a this year only type thing then they could extend Hamilton or any other player and it not affect next years payroll much if at all

by bigsteve on Dec 13, 2011 11:59 AM CST up reply actions  

No. I wish people would stop suggesting we trade Hamilton

Unless it is for a Hamels-type player, it isn’t worth it (and probably not, even then).

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 12:47 PM CST up reply actions  

that was my former line of thinking

but if they are not going to spend money to improve the lineup for the 2012 season, and they don’t have the money (or don’t want to spend the money) on extending Hamilton, then I really don’t see the point.

Life is pain - we've got to scrape the joy from it every chance we get.

by jshcmp on Dec 13, 2011 1:06 PM CST up reply actions  

I totally see your point

I really want to win in 2012, but “trying to win next year” implies that the FO would be making decisions based on putting the best possible team on the field for 2012.

If this financial news is true, they are more focused on being the best team in 2013 or later and if Hamilton is not going to be part of 2013 and beyond, then I say get what you can now. It’s more likely that we get Hamilton version 2009 or 2011 than 2010. HOWEVER, if you gamble now and keep the band together and get 2010 hamilton for 2012, then everything works out. But if he is 2009 Hamilton then everyone will be upset and kicking JD for not getting value when he had the chance.

Life is pain - we've got to scrape the joy from it every chance we get.

by jshcmp on Dec 13, 2011 1:59 PM CST up reply actions  

and arguing with myself

proves i’m still conflicted on the subject, lol.

Life is pain - we've got to scrape the joy from it every chance we get.

by jshcmp on Dec 13, 2011 2:01 PM CST up reply actions  

This is all Nolans fault.

Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11

by boomer1 on Dec 13, 2011 11:59 AM CST reply actions  

Did you like those two World Series appearances in a row?

I thought you did.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 12:15 PM CST up reply actions  

It was all Nolan wasn't it....

It was sarcasm Wales.

Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11

by boomer1 on Dec 13, 2011 12:21 PM CST up reply actions  

lol

"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson

by jam0152 on Dec 13, 2011 1:23 PM CST up reply actions  

I had a dream last night we traded M. Perez for a starting pitcher.

Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11

by boomer1 on Dec 13, 2011 12:10 PM CST reply actions  

For the right pitcher, I would be all for it.

I am kind of mixed on Perez. A talented lefty with relatively close proximity that is still 4 months from his 21st birthday should be held on to. But then part of me thinks that if you can sell high on him, then do it.

by casew on Dec 13, 2011 12:15 PM CST up reply actions  

So is Wade Davis!

"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11

by hornedfrogs45 on Dec 13, 2011 12:17 PM CST up reply actions  

I wouldn't be against signing Saunders if they could get him on the cheap....

Really cheap…..

"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

by GhostofSteveFoucault on Dec 13, 2011 12:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Saunders would be our 7th best option.

I would want him to pay us to let him pitch.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:19 PM CST up reply actions  

What about Neftali Perez

I hear he is all the rage in Ranger-Ville

At least I get to see the Rangers when they play the Twins now.

by TargetField on Dec 13, 2011 1:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Im already looking forward

to the Angels getting a wildcard spot and it’s CJs turn to pitch. 2.1 ip, 5 hits, and 5 walks later the Angels are eliminated and CJ blames it on a combo of bad luck, logos on the baseball, and lawyerball. Scoscia than strangles him and the Angels have to eat the rest of his contract.

"Calmer than you are dude"

by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 13, 2011 12:30 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

/Thread

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:38 PM CST up reply actions  

/LSB

Seriously, guys, let’s just pack it up and call it a day. Nothing more to be said here.

"And the Yankees slap everyone around with their money penis, but where has it gotten them?"- Jorge C

by WildcatPhoenix on Dec 13, 2011 12:47 PM CST up reply actions  

especially since this thread is being shit on

NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development

Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM

by shock00 on Dec 13, 2011 12:50 PM CST up reply actions  

thanks so much, Mark Cuban and Jim Crane

Come on now, AJM – that line’s just bitter and silly.

You can make a decent argument that there’d be more cash flow (and more TV revenue) with them as the owners.

I’m fine with Nolan/Bob, but Cuban is a crazy scapegoat.

by todmod on Dec 13, 2011 12:39 PM CST reply actions  

Name another owner who was willing to take on Chandler's contract.

"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11

by hornedfrogs45 on Dec 13, 2011 1:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Last year.

"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11

by hornedfrogs45 on Dec 13, 2011 1:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Get over it. Devin Harris sucks.

"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11

by hornedfrogs45 on Dec 13, 2011 1:31 PM CST up reply actions  

It was an accident.

Why do you cling to the belief that Cuban is a bad owner when he’s done more than almost any owner in this area has done since 90s Jerry?

"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11

by hornedfrogs45 on Dec 13, 2011 1:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Because it makes no sense.

I can see why his personality would be annoying to people, for sure. But the guy is willing to own a team at a loss in order to field a competitive, winning team. And he doesn’t meddle like a Jerry or a Dan Snyder.

I just don’t get it. I’ve never read your explanation. It’s Josey-esque, honestly.

"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11

by hornedfrogs45 on Dec 13, 2011 2:22 PM CST up reply actions  

There was a deal in place prior to the auction...

And the creditors pushed for an auction.

If Cuban and Crane don’t up the bid, Ryan / Greenberg group don’t have to pay as much money.

Given that Cuban tried to sue the creditors for money (and then later dropped it) because of his role in upping the purchase price of the team, you could argue that the ONLY reason Cuban did it was to inflate the price and take credit for inflating it.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:41 PM CST up reply actions  

x

I don’t have AJM’s Cuban anger… but “Mark Cuban and Jim Crane want to get paid for losing out on the Rangers” definitely rubbed me the wrong way.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes, exactly.

Of course, you could also wonder how much money Davis, Simpson, Greenberg, and Ryan would’ve saved for the club if they’d been willing to play ball more leading up to that point. You could argue they cost themselves a bunch of money that could’ve been used for other purposes…

But then you’d get Maury Brown mad at you.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 12:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Having the auction itself wasn't the fault of Greenberg and co.

Monarch was never going to accept anything less than an auction held by the bankruptcy court.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 12:59 PM CST up reply actions  

It wasn't?

That’s not how I remember it.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 1:01 PM CST up reply actions  

The creditors complained throughout the early proceedings that the purchase value of the club wasn't market-tested.

They argued constantly that the club could be sold for more money to someone else. The auction was the final way of putting that theory to rest.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 1:03 PM CST up reply actions  

And didn't Greenberg-led group constantly reject

the creditors’ suggested modifications to the sale agreement in the months leading up to the auction?

Are you saying if Greenberg & Co. had agreed to pay what the creditors reportedly were asking, the creditors would’ve said, “On second though, we want even more, and we’re taking this to court to force an auction through?”

Because I could swear I remember the creditors setting a a price they wanted Greenberg & Co. to pay, and saying that would make them go away.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 1:06 PM CST up reply actions  

I can't say for sure without looking back at articles from the time.

But my recollection of the process was that we were headed for an auction no matter what.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 1:07 PM CST up reply actions  

No, our ownership group ended up paying more than the creditors were originally asking for

At the time they weren’t willing to go that high, so they fought the creditors.

by MikeEl on Dec 13, 2011 1:09 PM CST up reply actions  

This is what I remember.

That the creditors were asking for the deal to be restructured in such a way that they’d get $30 million more, and Rangers Express refused — but wound up paying more than the $30 million in the auction.

I could be wrong, though.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 1:13 PM CST up reply actions  

x
You can make a decent argument that there’d be more cash flow (and more TV revenue) with them as the owners

How?

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 13, 2011 12:45 PM CST up reply actions  

the regional network plan

The DFW version of the YES network.

Would that give more money than a TV deal that just got doubled by the Angels?

And yes, it’s just speculation. Not trying to say otherwise, just find the blame game weird.

by todmod on Dec 13, 2011 12:50 PM CST up reply actions  

What I think is funny is the Astros being part of their own regional network.

Maybe that will mean Adam can watch the Rangers on Fox Sports all the time though.

by MikeEl on Dec 13, 2011 1:30 PM CST up reply actions  

You could make that argument, but it probably wouldn't be decent.

Because it would be based entirely on speculation.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 12:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Cuban and Crane were a fucking sideshow to simply put more money in Hicks' pocket

Hicks was secretly dealing with them during the exclusive bargaining period which is as much Cuban’s fault as it was Hicks. They tried to circumvent the system and the end result was the Rangers having less money right now. Fuck Cuban.

Football can go to hell. The Rangers aren't ready for football season and neither am I.

by WyoRanger on Dec 13, 2011 2:31 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

CJ on SVP right now.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 12:48 PM CST reply actions  

Classy as always...tipped his cap to the area, the fans and his teammates.

Loved seeing the team go from also-rans in 2006 to toppling the big market teams in 2010 and going to the World Series.

Letting him go to the Angels is a colossal fuck-up.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 12:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Nolan's baby

NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development

Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM

by shock00 on Dec 13, 2011 1:08 PM CST up reply actions  

When are you going to let JD grow up and be held accountable

just like all the other GMs?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 2:55 PM CST up reply actions  

heh.......the FO might have all agreed that they don't want him back.

NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development

Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM

by shock00 on Dec 13, 2011 2:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Yet Scott Servais didn't have an issue with it.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 3:30 PM CST up reply actions  

ok then lets ask the farm director whether or not we should extend Kins, Josh and everyone else

because thats what matters

NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development

Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM

by shock00 on Dec 13, 2011 3:35 PM CST up reply actions  

You don't think had any input with Dipoto, Sosh or Moreno?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 3:37 PM CST up reply actions  

none.

NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development

Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM

by shock00 on Dec 13, 2011 3:40 PM CST up reply actions  

the Angels already knew what CJ was about

NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development

Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM

by shock00 on Dec 13, 2011 3:41 PM CST up reply actions  

And Servais filled in the gaps.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 3:51 PM CST up reply actions  

doubtful

NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development

Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM

by shock00 on Dec 13, 2011 3:52 PM CST up reply actions  

x

"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

by GhostofSteveFoucault on Dec 13, 2011 3:44 PM CST up reply actions  

ahh motherfuck i forgot

ok JW…..he might have had input. lol.

NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development

Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM

by shock00 on Dec 13, 2011 4:13 PM CST up reply actions  

My God...
gromerjeffers Gromer M. Jeffers
Former SMU standout and ESPN personality Craig James will file in Texas for the Republican U.S. Senate primary by end of day Thursday.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 12:49 PM CST reply actions  

oh good lord....fuck that guy.

NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development

Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM

by shock00 on Dec 13, 2011 12:50 PM CST up reply actions  

At least five.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 12:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe Mike Leach can lock him in a closet

Perseverance isn't just the willingness to work hard. It's that, plus the willingness to be stubborn about your own belief in yourself."
---Merlin Olsen

by Schultzy on Dec 13, 2011 6:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Apparently he's some kind of genius.

And my new idol.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 12:49 PM CST up reply actions  

He wasn't an employee...

He was part of the ownership group. This isn’t severance… this is probably purchasing his equity stake in the team.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:50 PM CST up reply actions  

There was an element of compensation for the role he played in assembling and managing the ownership group, too.

Sweat equity, or the like.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 12:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Is there any precedent for legal advice being worth that much outside of a percentage of a settlement?

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 12:53 PM CST up reply actions  

That would just be one part.

In addition to his ownership stake.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 12:54 PM CST up reply actions  

He put the whole damn deal and ownership group together and was the main driving force behind buying the team

He spent more than a year in Texas trying to make this happen, then when it does, Nolan turns around and tells the board it’s him or me, and they force him out. I’d say that 30M is poor substitute for being a part-owner of the Rangers.

by MikeEl on Dec 13, 2011 12:57 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't see how is actual equity stake would of been that much.

But his role in putting together the ownership group, working through bankruptcy and other legal aspects was probably the reason for the additional amount.

by casew on Dec 13, 2011 12:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Lawyers gonna lawyer

amirite?

"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11

Pressure? If there’s any pressure it’s the pressure pressurizing the panty cannon.

by Atticus F on Dec 13, 2011 12:50 PM CST up reply actions  

If someone said,

Mike, come be lead of the ownership group for the Rangers.

Would you say, “Okay…. but if you guys fire me, I want $30M”

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 1:35 PM CST up reply actions  

If I'd spent years of my life and moved my whole family to a different city,

put together the people who would become the ownership group, spent countless hours getting to know the fans and figuring out what would make this a better franchise, watched the team make a run at it’s first WS and then have someone tell me, well thanks for helping us get all this shit, now get the fuck out, $30 million is the least of what I would ask for.

by MikeEl on Dec 13, 2011 1:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Damn, Mike-- you have some cajones. I would pay money for that opportunity

I’m under the impression the $30M was contracted-to beforehand, but I’m not sure how these things work.

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 1:42 PM CST up reply actions  

On one hand the $30 million is fair and generous for all the work you put into getting the deal done

but one the other, for Greenberg, being a part owner of the Rangers wasn’t about the money as much as it was about getting to watch and build a successful franchise in what is an incredibly rare opportunity that may never come again. If you asked Greenberg if he would rather have the $30million or still be an owner, there is no question in my mind which he would choose.

by MikeEl on Dec 13, 2011 1:46 PM CST up reply actions  

This got mentioned by not linked in the morning thread.

Dan Szymborski of BTF and ESPN put a piece on who would benefit most from signing Prince Fielder

ESPN Insider Access required.

Projecting for 2012, ZiPS has Fielder projected at 5.6 WAR (wins above replacement) in the homer-friendly Rangers Ballparkk. Mitch Moreland comes out at 1.0 WAR. Just how big is adding the difference between Fielder and Moreland in the win column? Enough to shift the Rangers’ divisional odds, at least in ZiPS’ eyes, back to a 55-41 edge over the Angels and their overall chances of making the playoffs from 51 percent to 75 percent. Simply signing Fielder increases their odds of reaching the playoffs by 24 percent!

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 1:00 PM CST reply actions  

It does not.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 1:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Question:

Would Fielder’s performance be better in Arlington than Pujols in Anaheim? In other words, would the coastal marine air depress Pujols’s power and the jet stream increase Fielder’s?

"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11

Pressure? If there’s any pressure it’s the pressure pressurizing the panty cannon.

by Atticus F on Dec 13, 2011 1:04 PM CST up reply actions  

First time I've ever heard that about the "coastal marine air" having an effect on baseball.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 1:05 PM CST up reply actions  

How close is the stadium to the coast?

It seems like the stadiums close to bodies of water always cause hitters to suffer somewhat.

by DFWAg on Dec 13, 2011 1:06 PM CST up reply actions  

I've always heard that the ball doesn't carry so well at night in Anaheim.

"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11

Pressure? If there’s any pressure it’s the pressure pressurizing the panty cannon.

by Atticus F on Dec 13, 2011 1:08 PM CST up reply actions  

It does in San Diego AFAIK

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 1:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Man, science backin up our claims

He’s the perfect fit, but we have no money :(

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 1:36 PM CST up reply actions  

AJM doesn't really believe this.
lonestarball Adam J. Morris
Maybe the Rangers are leaking story that they don’t have money to spend in order to bluff other teams into not bidding as much on Darvish.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 1:08 PM CST reply actions  

Somebody named Josey mentioned this earlier today.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 2:55 PM CST up reply actions  

And nobody who matters gave a flying fuck.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 2:56 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

x

Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"

Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."

by Gdawg on Dec 13, 2011 2:58 PM CST up reply actions  

I really do love Ian.

If I was a woman I’m fairly certain I would have a restraining order already.

by DFWAg on Dec 13, 2011 1:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Ian Kinsler:

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 1:15 PM CST up reply actions  

I can't see the pitcher.

It’s probably a honey badger.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 1:15 PM CST up reply actions  

*picture

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 1:15 PM CST up reply actions  

or John Goodman from the Big Lebowski.

NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development

Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM

by shock00 on Dec 13, 2011 1:16 PM CST up reply actions  

"Calmer than you are..."

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 1:18 PM CST up reply actions  

I really hope Ian isn't ever part of the going nature of baseball

I want him to retire as a Ranger. When he goes into the HOF, we can all talk about how awesome it is that a HOFer played only for the team that drafted him.

Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"

Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."

by Gdawg on Dec 13, 2011 1:25 PM CST up reply actions  

He is the one

"I think we just have to wait and see how things shake its way out," -- Wash

by tricer on Dec 13, 2011 5:59 PM CST up reply actions  

His first name is an anagram of "NIA"!

Wait, wait…

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 6:04 PM CST up reply actions  

This would be immensely pleasing
"We wish him the best," Kinsler said. "We’re happy for him. He signed a huge deal. He’s at home. And we’re happy for him to throw balls right down the middle so we can hit them over the fence."

"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11

Pressure? If there’s any pressure it’s the pressure pressurizing the panty cannon.

by Atticus F on Dec 13, 2011 1:13 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

that last part

sounds a bit like Wash’s comments about Carpenter before Game 7

by CO Ranger on Dec 13, 2011 7:24 PM CST up reply actions  

No. The sky is falling and the Rangers are just going to sign Chan Ho tomorrow.

"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson

by jam0152 on Dec 13, 2011 1:23 PM CST reply actions  

Did we ever decide

if we are going to cheer or boo when CJ comes back?

I used to own Mickey Tettleton's couch.

by Pith on Dec 13, 2011 1:33 PM CST reply actions  

neither.....cheer when we rock him but when he goes to the mound nothing.

NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development

Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM

by shock00 on Dec 13, 2011 1:36 PM CST up reply actions  

When he comes back

I hope he does so in 2011 playoff form.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 1:40 PM CST up reply actions  

You didn't see my tweet about this?

It cost me about 15 followers that day. However, about 18 new people started following me in the aftermath, so it worked out.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 13, 2011 1:40 PM CST up reply actions  

I'll probably boo

I still like him, but I pretty much will boo anyone who isn’t on my favorite team.

Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"

Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."

by Gdawg on Dec 13, 2011 1:56 PM CST up reply actions  

HEH

"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11

by hornedfrogs45 on Dec 13, 2011 2:13 PM CST reply actions  

lol

NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development

Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM

by shock00 on Dec 13, 2011 2:18 PM CST up reply actions  

The Baron Davis beard is never a good idea, you guys.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 2:19 PM CST up reply actions  

FP, Timmy D might be leaving for Fresno State to be their HC.

http://twitter.com/#!/footballscoop/status/146682934018056192

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 2:28 PM CST reply actions  

Bring me Fielder!!!!
Rangers and Fielder a perfect fit
There is, however, one exceptional fit for Fielder, a team that has roster, lineup and payroll space for him; that expects to contend right now; that plays in a ballpark he could tear up. The Texas Rangers should make bringing in Fielder their primary goal over the next couple of weeks — he’s the perfect fit for a team that has just about everything else it could want coming off two straight AL pennants.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/joe_sheehan/12/13/prince.fielder.rangers/

"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

by GhostofSteveFoucault on Dec 13, 2011 3:08 PM CST reply actions  

Except they don't have payroll space.

"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11

by hornedfrogs45 on Dec 13, 2011 3:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Hey Negative Nancy, calm the shit down.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 3:12 PM CST up reply actions  

And that's fine.

Just hearing about it over and over again when anybody posts anything about a player we might want is a beating.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 3:16 PM CST up reply actions  

I have yet to figure out why our owners aren't getting credit for Beltre.

You know, he of the 5.7 WAR in 120 games last season.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 3:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Full disclosure

I’m still bitter about his comments after game 7, especially after how bad he was at the plate that game.

I still love Beltre, but, I keep thinking back to that AB in the first inning.

"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11

by hornedfrogs45 on Dec 13, 2011 3:27 PM CST up reply actions  

From what I've read, it's because:

(1) any owners in their position would’ve made that sort of signing; and/or
(2) that singular signing can’t compare with the Red Sox 2010 or Angels 2011 off-seasons.

But that might just be me being… snarky.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 3:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Apparently that was a fluke signing

when the team thought they had more money or something.

Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"

Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."

by Gdawg on Dec 13, 2011 5:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Don't worry about that part!!!

"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

by GhostofSteveFoucault on Dec 13, 2011 3:12 PM CST up reply actions  

You will believe anything won't you Debbie?

Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11

by boomer1 on Dec 13, 2011 3:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Don't see how you thought this was a good idea, Dutch architects.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/dutch-architects-korean-911-towers-look-sushi-or-chopsticks_613181.html

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 3:18 PM CST reply actions  

I love Holland... he's a good young pitcher.

But I’m not letting him build anything.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 3:24 PM CST up reply actions  

I laughed at it....only because when I saw "Dutch" I thought the same thing....

Not saying I’m proud….not saying I should have laughed….but I applaud match for having the courage to post it.

"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

by GhostofSteveFoucault on Dec 13, 2011 3:28 PM CST up reply actions  

I was just kidding :)

Someone had to say it. I expected MikeEl

by Jobu. on Dec 13, 2011 3:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Also

Holy Crap. I’d like to think even our Holland wouldn’t be dumb enough to build something like that!

by MikeEl on Dec 13, 2011 5:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Rub his nose in it

Pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty good.

by Bface on Dec 13, 2011 3:29 PM CST up reply actions  

...
ProfessorParks Jason Parks
Toronto RT @dtisch30: @ProfessorParks more likely landing spot for Darvish: NYY or TEX?

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 5:13 PM CST reply actions  

If Toronto wins the bid...

I bet he doesn’t sign.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 5:13 PM CST up reply actions  

What makes you say that?

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 5:14 PM CST up reply actions  

I've heard AA will try and force a shorter term deal down his throat

Since he doesn’t have any leverage to sign elsewhere. I think AA will try and make Darvish sign a deal on his terms.

And I think Darvish might do that for some… but not for Toronto when he’d rather be on the West Coast or the Yankees.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 5:16 PM CST up reply actions  

How would he?

We won’t win the negotiating rights…

And I think Daniels would too… but I think Daniels would rather have Darvish pitch here than let him go back to Japan given the amount of time and money we’ve invested in Japan.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 5:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Whereas...

I could see AA letting Darvish walk easier.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 5:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Are you in favor of getting Darvish....say at $90-100 million commitment?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 5:20 PM CST up reply actions  

I really don't know.

There is a very large part of me that covets him. I don’t know how much you’ve watched him pitch… but that’s serious stuff he has. He’d have one of the higher average velocity fastballs in the league and he’s a big strong sumbitch.

But it is VERY risky… and my preference if the money was equal was C.J.

I think if you decide to say the posting fee isn’t part of your payroll budget… that money comes from your player development budget… and your scouts feel like he’s the easiest / fastest way to get an Ace… then sure.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 5:23 PM CST up reply actions  

What's his upside...Hideo Nomo?

He’s the only Japanese pitcher that came over here and had sustained success as a starter.

I don’t risk that much money on him because I have no idea how successful he will be. It’s a completely different level of play. He’s used to pitching with smaller baseballs. He’s a RH pitcher who will spend half his time in Texas.

If the Rangers get him, I can’t shit on him but I also can’t brag on him…he’s an unknown. And you don’t spend $ 100 million on an unknown. That’s how you get your ass fired.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 5:30 PM CST up reply actions  

The point being that he's not as much of an unknown to our scouts and FO as he is to you.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 5:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Unknown = he doesn't have a track record of success in The Show.

These are the same dumbasses that recommended we trade Danks for Ichabod, AG for 5 bags of shit, sign VPadilla for $ 35 million, sign Millwood for $ 60 million and give Brandon Webb $ 3 million.

Yes, our scouts have done some good things but for $ 100 million, you need a track record of success in The Show.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 5:35 PM CST up reply actions  

So prospects are shit to you until they establish themselves, right?

Totally worthless without that Track Record in The Show.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 5:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Not totally worthless but you don't give them $ 100 million.

Try again.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 5:44 PM CST up reply actions  

There's some validity to this line of thinking.

Cameron had a nice article about how Tim Lincecum has been a no doubt about it, as good as you get pitcher… and he hasn’t been able to demand the kind of money that Darvish will.

It’s obviously not apples to apples because Darvish can go back to Japan and pitch and so he has a bit of leverage…

But very very very very few players get a $100M commitment to acquire their services (though not all to the player).

That’s a tremendous gamble.

And the other side of that is he might be worth.

Because Josey… his ceiling is probably Felix Hernandez. Not that he’ll realize that… but you need to quit thinking in terms of “Hideo Nomo”.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 6:22 PM CST up reply actions  

His ceiling is probably King Felix based on what?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."

"You want false modesty? F that."

by Josey Wales on Dec 13, 2011 10:56 PM CST up reply actions  

His fastball sits at 93-94 with good movement

And touches 97 when he dials it up.

He also has very strong control and a nasty slider and a bunch of other pitches that will probably get pared down.

Felix probably has more sink to his fastball but they both are hard throwing right handers with excellent control and velocity.

Nomo didn’t throw nearly as hard and walked a shit ton of guys.

I’m not saying Darvish will become Felix, but he’s a 6’5" 220lb half Iranian dude… not some little guy (though Nomo wasn’t small either). Felix is what you hope for if you get Darvish… but again… ceiling not expected result.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 11:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah I was just making a joke with the first part.

Though not actually joking. :|

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 5:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Boooooooo.

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 5:24 PM CST up reply actions  

But my point was...

I think JD would be more concerned about damaging our reputation and relationships with that Japanese pipeline.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver

by Brad on Dec 13, 2011 5:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Same reason I have a hard time seeing AA playing it like that.

At least, playing it like that too obviously…

Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.

by Snark on Dec 13, 2011 5:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Its also a better situation here

I don’t know if he’d end up taking a shorter deal here or not regardless of where he’s going, but here he’s go a championship caliber team with a couple of Japanese players here (and at least one of them is happy to be here).

Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"

Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."

by Gdawg on Dec 13, 2011 5:28 PM CST up reply actions  

We also have a ballpark and climate that may be less favorable to him.

If he is concerned with establishing himself as the first great Japanese ace in MLB (depending on how you view Nomo in his prime), he may be more interested in a different ballpark.

Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.

"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.

by Aqua on Dec 13, 2011 5:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe

but I was more just comparing here to Toronto.

Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"

Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."

by Gdawg on Dec 13, 2011 5:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Texas Rangers.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Hong_kong_small
OT: UEFA Euro 2012 Thread
Small
Ranger Rowdy Time!
Bc0nc_small
Minors Thread: Mid-Late May

Recent FanPosts

Neftali_old_timey_small
You should be at the lake - Memorial Day OT
Macho_man_randy_savage_small
Sunday OT
Small
Loking for Batters' Eye Club 7/24 or 25
Small
Texas Rangers: 2012 Community Mock Draft Picks
Macho_man_randy_savage_small
Saturday OT
White_blackpool_icon_small
Draft Discussion
Small
MOD#6 - Rangers (2nd Round - 93rd Pick)
Andy_small
Afternoon OT Thread
Macho_man_randy_savage_small
5/25 OT 1
Neftali_old_timey_small
5/24/2012 OT 2

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Yahoo_full_count

Manager

Th_buckykatt_small Adam J. Morris

Editor

477845_small ghostofErikThompson

Author

Matchstick_small Brad