Boston acquires Andrew Bailey from Oakland
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 28, 2011 4:14 PM CST
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PrintBoston has reportedly acquired reliever Andrew Bailey and outfielder Ryan Sweeney from the Oakland A's in a deal that is sending right fielder Josh Reddick, third baseman Miles Head, and pitcher Raul Alcantera to the Athletics.
The Rangers have supposedly been hot and heavy after Bailey since last summer, and Buster Olney had said earlier today that either Texas or Boston would likely end up with the Oakland closer.
Reddick is 24 years old, and posted a .280/.327/.457 line with Boston in 278 plate appearances last year, splitting the season between the majors and AAA Pawtucket. He was the #75 prospect in baseball according to Baseball America prior to the 2010 season.
Head turns 21 in May, and mashed in the South Atlantic League in 66 games last season, posting a 1022 OPS, but struggled in the Carolina League. He was an above-slot signing by the BoSox in 2009, getting third round money despite sliding to the 26th round, and BA had him as the #20 prospect in the Sally League in 2011.
Alcantara appears to be the real prize of this deal for Oakland. The #6 prospect in the Gulf Coast League in 2011 per BA, Alcantara is 19 years old, righthanded, throws hard, is considered "projectable," and BA says some scouts project his curveball as a potential plus offering.
If you're looking for a comparable package, think Mitch Moreland, Jake Skole, and David Perez (although the Boston package is better than that).
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The last sentence of this post
makes absolutely no sense. If the Boston package is obviously better than the one you listed from the Rangers, they are not comparable.
Can one thing be better than another and yet not be comparable?
It’s a matter of degree.
by VM on Dec 28, 2011 7:16 PM CST up reply actions
Oh man that'd be awesome.
I’m not sure Ross fits the general style that the White Sox seem to like, but…
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 28, 2011 4:41 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed
The trade for Matt Thornton crowd confuses me.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 28, 2011 6:17 PM CST up reply actions
I would rather try all internal options
and if you still really want/need him, try and get him in July.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 28, 2011 6:18 PM CST up reply actions
x
If you’re looking for a comparable package, think Mitch Moreland, Jake Skole, and David Perez (although the Boston package is better than that).
really?
See sprite's comment below...
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
If you say the package with Moreland is "comparable" while also instantly remark it is not as
good as the one Boston gave to Oakland it comes across as a very contradictory statement.
by texrangers31 on Dec 28, 2011 4:29 PM CST up reply actions
i want to say skole and perez are a little more highly regarded than alcantara and head
personally i think perez is much better than alcantara, but whatever…
why do you think head has a ‘fair size edge on skole’?
Head is only 6 months older
has similar plate discipline, doesn’t strike out all day, and has way more pop
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
Yeah,
it’d be nice to see some power from Skole.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 28, 2011 4:43 PM CST up reply actions
I think Adam is right about that package being better
Reddick > Moreland, Head > Skole, I do think that Perez is better than Alcantara but not nearly enough to make up for the other gaps.
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
by Michael Cave on Dec 28, 2011 4:27 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not seeing the huge difference between Reddick and Moreland.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Me either
I think Moreland v. Reddick is a coin flip, Perez and Alcantara are close (debateable which is better), and Head has a fair sized edge on Skole.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 28, 2011 4:30 PM CST up reply actions
Could we have offered a slightly lesser package and gotten Bailey sans Sweeney?
Or were they looking to unload him as part of any deal?
by texrangers31 on Dec 28, 2011 4:31 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think Sweeney swung the needle much
I imagine Boston asked for him in the deal so they have a warm body for RF if need be, with Reddick now gone, but I don’t think putting him in the deal meant Boston had to give up much more.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 28, 2011 4:37 PM CST up reply actions
How much do you think sweeney would have gotten in arb?
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
Agreed.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 28, 2011 4:42 PM CST up reply actions
I dont think there is a
large gap but I do think Reddick is slightly better. I actually think this is a pretty solid trade for the Red Sox.
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
by Michael Cave on Dec 28, 2011 4:35 PM CST up reply actions
I agree
I wouldn’t have had a problem with Moreland, Skole and Perez for Bailey.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 28, 2011 4:36 PM CST up reply actions
Especially since trading Moreland
Probably means something interesting was coming up.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I bet you got tingly down below while typing that.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 28, 2011 4:42 PM CST up reply actions
We would be a better team than the 2011 was.
By a wee bit… and that 2011 was very very good.
Hard not to salivate over that possibility.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Assuming the medicals checked out...sure.
Also, wow, that’s a long way off from Marteen+
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 28, 2011 4:42 PM CST up reply actions
But seriously...
What will happen to Ryan Madson?
One year deal?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I can't figure out why no one is moneywhipping him.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I think...
GMs are getting smarter about money whipping relievers. Cashman didn’t want to with Soriano last year… that was all Levine.
Ruben was probably the only guy this off season with the money and the madness to throw a 4 year $50M type deal out. Allegedly Madson got 4/$45 before the plug got pulled and then they go out and get Papelbon?
The Red Sox are probably the only ones with the money and gumption to go that big and clearly they didn’t want to either if they didn’t have to.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Levine?
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 28, 2011 4:48 PM CST up reply actions
Wasn't that Randy Levine that pushed for that?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I think it was the brothers Steinbrenner
But either way, it wasn’t Cashman.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 28, 2011 4:49 PM CST up reply actions
Me, too.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 28, 2011 4:56 PM CST up reply actions
He's spent a lot of time on the DL hasn't he?
And last year was his first year closing I think?
I could see those being reasons about teams being hesitant to sign him long term.
Dunno.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 28, 2011 4:47 PM CST up reply actions
yeah
these are nice pieces but nothing in the neighborhood of Martin Perez. I would have like this deal for the Rangers if it meant simply subbing in the players Adam mentioned (possibly throw in one more guy to make up for the gap in talent between skole and head).
If Ogando is moved back to the pen then I believe the Rangers bullpen becomes if not the best, one of the top 2 or 3 in baseball. Hell even without him out there it probably vaults into top 5 status if Nathan is what he was in the second half and Uehara bounces back.
Trade Murphy if there is a trade out there. Start the season with Hamilton in left, gentry/sweeney (or martin if he shows well at camp) at center, and cruz in right.
And oh yeah…..sign Fielder haha
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
by Michael Cave on Dec 28, 2011 4:47 PM CST up reply actions
Reddick is a good defensive OF
with more upside
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." The JeDi
Dunno
We have guys like Jason Parks telling us how awesome David Perez is from a scouting standpoint
If we didn’t have him, I’d be so far down on Perez thanks to that walk rate it’d be slightly funny
I need someone who knows more than me to tell me about Alcantara
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
Goldstein on Alcantara v. Perez
@Kevin_Goldstein
Kevin Goldstein @lonestarball He has nowhere near Perez’ upside, but he’s FAR more polished.
2 minutes ago via TweetDeck
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 28, 2011 4:35 PM CST up reply actions
Yea, you don't get much more raw than Perez 2.0
I’d take Perez over Alcantara, but I prefer upside over polish when prospects are young.
cat just sneezed on me
bitch
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
This
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Dec 28, 2011 5:19 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Why is Skole not a valid comp?
Depends whether you believe media reports of Beane wanting a 3b back.
My first thought seeing this news was JD wanted Olt more than Bailey.
Go Strangers.
Fielder and the Rangers
Here is what this deal says to me and I maybe reading to much into this.
If the A’s wanted a 1b and the Rangers didn’t want to trade Moreland that tells me they are going to roll with Moreland and are out on Fielder or they are looking for a better deal to put Moreland in such as a CF or a SP then go after Fielder. IMO
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
Damn meant 3b. Sorry.
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
What does the A's wanting a 3B have to do with Moreland?
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
I was going on Adams comparable
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
From reading more about him...
Head hasn’t played 3B since 2009.
Maybe they’ll move him back… but he’s been a 1B for a while.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
You're reading too much into this.
What you say is possible… but the information we have from the Red Sox trading for Bailey isn’t enough to draw any conclusions about the Rangers future plans.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Agreed.
And I don’t think Moreland is an obstacle to signing Fielder. I think Texas will make their Fielder decision relatively independently (i.e. whether he’ll sign what they’re willing to pay)…
I suppose they’ might have slightly less leverage in trading Moreland if they did it after signing Fielder, however…
by VM on Dec 28, 2011 7:25 PM CST up reply actions
Wait...what?
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 28, 2011 4:58 PM CST up reply actions
You're putting two and two together and getting five ...
by Professor Ch@os on Dec 28, 2011 4:59 PM CST up reply actions
BigSteveMath™
Expectation is the root of all heartache. — William Shakespeare
by TheDutchOven on Dec 28, 2011 5:07 PM CST up reply actions
LSB Meme
Expectation is the root of all heartache. — William Shakespeare
by TheDutchOven on Dec 28, 2011 10:48 PM CST up reply actions
Perhaps
the Rangers and A’s simply did not match in terms of positions. The A’s could have dismissed any possibility of Moreland playing OF and thought of him strictly as a 1B so he wasnt even in the discussion.
I suspect that JD was firm on not including Olt in a deal for Bailey so Beane moved onto to pretty close, young corner OFers which is kind of a weakness of the Rangers right now. The Rangers simply werent a match. They could have offered some really nice, interesting pitching prospects but the A’s wanted a young, 3B and/or COF and once Olt was off the table the teams simply didnt match up well. That is how I read it.
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
by Michael Cave on Dec 28, 2011 5:00 PM CST up reply actions
Sigh,
if only we still had that noted 3B prospect, Chris Davis…
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 28, 2011 5:01 PM CST up reply actions
haha this is true
Damn JD and his love for Japanese baseball players!!!
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
by Michael Cave on Dec 28, 2011 5:03 PM CST up reply actions
Billy Beane receives Head and Reddick? Is Johnny Reacharound the PTBNL?
by Spastic Colon on Dec 28, 2011 4:52 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
I thought it was good
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Johnny Reacharound is untouchable.
Now Rusty Kuntz on the other hand…
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
Pressure? If there’s any pressure it’s the pressure pressurizing the panty cannon.
..what the hell..
SBN finally fixed the bug!!!
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, jonthefon, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
by Mike E on Dec 28, 2011 4:55 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
ha..look at that my last login is today..
not back in Sept. even though I had been logging in since then still.
Kk.. cool.
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, jonthefon, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
Guess not...
Pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty good.
by Bface on Dec 28, 2011 4:58 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Not very much to give up for Bailey (our comparable one mentioned)
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, jonthefon, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
have you talked to MikeSpanishY lately?
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Dec 28, 2011 5:00 PM CST up reply actions
Do you and Adam have any other opinions about the deal?
Defending Big D Check it out
Twitter
"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
Did he not say his up there?
I generally don’t read what he says.. just skimmed for comparable.
Bailey would had been nice, especially if we could’ve got him for what AJM mentioned.. a real steal.
It sucks that Boston got him, who could be competition for the Rangers.. but oh well.
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, jonthefon, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
So Madson, Fielder, and Edwin Jackson
are all Boras clients correct?
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
Screw Madson and Jackson
Give me Priiiiiince!
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Dec 28, 2011 5:22 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
screw Prince if Boras wants a really long-term deal
I want Prince, but nowhere near the commitment Boras wants, and if he thinks that is there in what seems to be a pretty dry market, then go ahead and pursue it. I just don’t seem him getting any more than a 7 year deal. I wouldn’t really want to go past 6 years on him.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
<3 Jeff
http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2011/12/27/2665282/prince-fielder-watch-2011
I can’t see Albert Pujols getting ten years, and then Prince Fielder getting way less than ten years in the same offseason. But I can’t see a lot of things. That’s why I have to wear contact lenses. If I’m not wearing my contacts or my glasses, I’m a horrible person to talk to, because I’ll just spend the whole time looking around, marveling at how I would be dead in nature. I wouldn’t be able to see food or predators! I’d be like a mole without a burrow!
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 28, 2011 5:28 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm beginning to think Prince isn't an option.
I’ve been trying to talk myself into it, but I can’t anymore. To add Darvish and Prince is going to be a significant jump in payroll and the Rangers lack a lot of tradeable big money guys to even out the difference.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 28, 2011 5:30 PM CST up reply actions
I'm beginning to think predicting the Rangers is impossible.
I will be surprised if we sign Prince… that’s been true all off season. I was surprised we won Darvish.
A back loaded contract would make it possible… but it’s still unlikely.
But who the hell knows with this team.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Hmm.
At what point would we be ok with the Rangers starting to backload contracts?
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 28, 2011 5:34 PM CST up reply actions
I'm in a 12 step program about Rangers acquisitions.
I acknowledge that JD is a higher power and that I’m powerless in these acquisitions.
Whatever happens, happens.
But seriously… it depends on the deal. I care more about total dollars than when it’s paid generally.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Now to get Prince.
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, jonthefon, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
Duh
It’s impossible to predict a ninja!
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Dec 28, 2011 5:53 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I am a noted anti-Prince guy.
If you want him, though, you have to hope the market dries up to the point that he becomes a ~$20M guy and the Rangers decide to splurge where they were previously willing to wait.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 28, 2011 5:33 PM CST up reply actions
It's going to take a HUGE jump
in payroll to make it happen. Even if you separate the posting fee for Darvish and just count the 10-15 mil a year, to add another 20 + on top of that is going to be very shocking.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 28, 2011 5:36 PM CST up reply actions
Perhaps.
Earlier in the offseason, I said I expected them to be at $112M minimum. Looks like they’ll be around $120M right now…
…but it wouldn’t surprise me if they had room to go up to $135M. Especially since they are only 3 years away from $TV.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 28, 2011 5:39 PM CST up reply actions
Which would mean backloading Prince.
And paying him somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 million at the tail end of his contract. Not appetizing.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 28, 2011 5:42 PM CST up reply actions
Depends on years.
Normally, I’m strongly against that sort of thing, but with the Rangers current situation…
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 28, 2011 5:42 PM CST up reply actions
Let's set the number at 7.
I have a hard time seeing Boras let Prince sign anything less. Boras said today he doesn’t have to go to a contender. Would you do 7 or more?
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 28, 2011 5:44 PM CST up reply actions
At what AAV?
My cut off is $150M guaranteed.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I don't think that would get it done.
I don’t think he signs for less than 7, and I don’t think 7 at 150 will satisfy Boras.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 28, 2011 5:47 PM CST up reply actions
Then I walk away.
But I have no issues with a Prince deal that doesn’t exceed $150M guaranteed or $26M AAV
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I would go 5 or 6
at 150, but I don’t think the Rangers have that room. The obvious trade candidate would be Feldman, but you won’t get anything in return to salary dump. Therefore, you are stuck with the question of, is Prince over Moreland worth more than having Feldman as staff depth?
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 28, 2011 5:50 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think you need to dump salary for 2012.
And Hamilton’s $13M is freed up for 2013 and beyond.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Hell... as well as Feldman's.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
You may be right.
I just don’t see the Rangers being able to add 30 million to the payroll.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 28, 2011 5:54 PM CST up reply actions
The issue is...
No one has any idea what their real finances are.
Based the reasonable guesses we can make… a $130M payroll isn’t crazy. They could really do that.
A lot of misinformation and unknowns… but I would not rule out $130M.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Plus,
any extensions they actually get done. It is a guessing game though.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 28, 2011 5:56 PM CST up reply actions
I think they can, too.
I think their max is around $135M. But that is when they probably look to offload some money.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 28, 2011 6:00 PM CST up reply actions
I will bet large quantities of cash...
That Darvish does not get $10M in 2012. His AAV may be between $10-$15… but his 2012 number won’t be.
Also… it seemed impossible for the Phillies to sign Cliff Lee. But they limited his 2011 money to $10M to help them get through that one year.
If the Rangers get Prince to defer money till TV money comes like they wanted to with Cliff… it’s certainly possible.
None of this likely at all… but I don’t think it’s impossible at all.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Boston can have him.
I’m not seriously broken up over this.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 28, 2011 5:14 PM CST reply actions
2012 A's
Over/Under 68 wins
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
Under.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 28, 2011 5:35 PM CST up reply actions
I've got them winning the AL West.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 28, 2011 5:40 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Under
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 28, 2011 5:42 PM CST up reply actions
Under
66
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Dec 28, 2011 5:51 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Heh. Under. Wayyyyyy Under.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Lot of golf left to be played
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
Blender of information, Bill James, Spring Training,
solid predictions in March.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 28, 2011 5:53 PM CST up reply actions
I can't find any O/Us from Vegas yet, but I'd bet they open at something like 64.5
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Yeah,
it’s not generally wise to project that far from the mean, but….
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 28, 2011 5:57 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not sure.
IIRC, the Stros opened at 66.5 last year. This could be an equally bad team in a much tougher division.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
And the firesale's not finished yet. Suzuki's gone before opening day.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Obviously,
but how will Beane manage to pawn off Fuentes?
What could be better than Dan Johnson
hitting .108
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Dec 28, 2011 6:26 PM CST up reply actions
The Astros were also expected to be a 100+ loss team going into next season
I think the O/U on wins for Oakland will be around 70.5
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 28, 2011 6:25 PM CST up reply actions
Didn't you run a book in your rapscallion days?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Going into last season you mean?
Yes. Do you not think the A’s are expected to be a 100 loss team going into 2012? They won 74 games last year and just lost/are about to lose 9+ WAR from that squad. Their ace is Brandon McCarthy or a healthy (ha!) Brett Anderson.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Yeah, last season
If you assume they replace all that WAR with replacement level players, then you’d peg them at 65. The over/under lines tend to gravitate more towards the middle, though.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 28, 2011 7:51 PM CST up reply actions
Over
They still get to play Seattle and with as many prospects they’ve gotten via trade this offseason a few are bound to go on hot streaks before the league figures them out.
My gosh.
That lineup might go full Bad News Bears against Felix. “The bad news is we didn’t put a ball in play, but the good news is we did have several foul tips.”
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 28, 2011 6:31 PM CST up reply actions
I heard the A's manager on XM
he mentioned Suzuki, Scott Sizemore, and Cliff Pennington when asked where his offense was going to come from. The jokes just write themselves…
"I think we just have to wait and see how things shake its way out," -- Wash
They're probably in a race with Houston for the number 1 pick
Dallas Stars Examiner
used to be under name hinduplaya
The real question
is how many Fangraph writers will have the A’s as #1 in the AL West since BILLY BEANE! is their GM
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Best part of this trade
No more FUCKING RYAN SWEENEY
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
Better than 19 times a year.
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
That's a lot cheaper than what I thought Bailey'd go for
But I still don’t see where he would’ve fit here, so it probably doesn’t matter.
Oakland probably wanted Reddick anyway, considering how hard up for OF’s they are right now.
I wonder
Do I love you - or the thought of you?
If Reddick is any good, he'll just be sold a few years down the road for prospects anyhow.
I don’t know if the A’s will ever be in non-rebuilding mode under Billy Beane.
They're not going to be in a non-rebuilding mode until they get some fucking money
Which is a very bad thing for them considering the new CBA puts the kibosh on amateur spending.
But hey, San Jose!
I wonder
Do I love you - or the thought of you?
Money really isn't a factor in this fire sale
The A’s could have kept everyone they’ve traded thus far and still maxed out (plus 5% overage) on the draft and IFAs and stayed under a $65 million budget.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Well
It may not be because they actually can’t afford to pay their current players, but from what I know (which, admittedly is a lot less than somebody who actually follows the team every day) I think it’s because they know they can’t spend enough to actually contend anytime soon with their current players and because the new CBA kind of limits what they’re going to be able to do in terms of refreshing what (again, to my understanding) is kind of a flamed-out farm system.
You can correct me if I’m totally wrong in those assumptions and I won’t argue, though.
I wonder
Do I love you - or the thought of you?
I'll acknowledge that 2012 ain't looking good for Oakland
I’m a minority opinion on this, but when you’re named after a muppet strange looks come with the territory. I don’t think the A’s farm system is that messed up.
Gray is the only guy in the upper minors who projects as better than a #4 SP and even he comes with question marks for now. But with Cahill, Gio and Anderson (in 2013) fronting the rotation you aren’t exactly needing to develop an Ace. I think Josh Outman can be a #3 as early as 2012 and with Ross and Braden in the mix (when healthy) you’ve got a solid rotation. The A’s are even better shape if they chose to offer McCarthy a 3 year extension for 2012-2014. Yes, I think (most) of McCarthy’s 2011 is for real; going from a 4 seam fastball to a 2 seam fastball was huge for him.
I think Sizemore is capable of being a 3 Win 3B next year and Weeks, if he stays healthy again, could do the same at 2B. The A’s got 0 or less than 0 production out of those two spots from everyone else who played those positions last year. Full seasons from Weeks and Sizemore could represent a 3+ Win increase for Oakland even if both players perform at the same level they did in 2011. The A’s also got sub-zero production out of 1B in 2011. If Barton can come back and be a 2.5/3 Win player that would represent a 3.5-4 Win upgrade for Oakland. Getting even slightly above-average production from those three player would net Oakland a 6-7 Win improvement. That’s how bad things were for the A’s last year!
The 2011 OF and DH combined to produce 6.5-7 Wins, hardly a daunting figure to replace if Beane chose his targets wisely. I don’t think much of Cowgill or Reddick but regardless of my opinion there’s no way those two only move if the A’s include Cahill and Bailey. Plus Brandon Allen, plus Chris Carter and maybe a 2nd tier FA and the A’s could have come close to matching last year’s production.
Long term, I think Grant Green is going to surprise. A lot of pressure is on Choice making it but he did well in High-A and the AFL. AA will be a key test, of course. Put both in Oakland by mid-2013 to shake the dew off their ears and by 2014 the line-up is looking better. You’ve still got Anderson/Cahill/Gio heading the rotation with Gray (hopefully) in the #4 spot. I don’t know what the Angels and Rangers will look like in 2014 but if the A’s can get 3 prospects to blossom and find some average infielders… things coulda been interesting in a couple years.
Or maybe I’m just mental.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Did you forget that Gio was just traded?
As was Cahill?
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Methinks you missed my preface
That the A’s could have held on to everyone they just traded and stayed under budget.
The monster at the end of this blog.
So why do you think they've done what they did?
If money wasn’t the reason — do you think Beane just got bored?
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
I think it's a PR move
Every rumor, every article written about these deals all refer to the same story: that the A’s need a new stadium and a decision on San Jose. I’ve got no dog in the San Jose fight but the need for new stadium that they don’t have to share with the freakin’ Raiders is clear.
The monster at the end of this blog.
The problem with this premise
is the idea that building a team around very good pitching is not sufficient for being a playoff team. You simply have to have several very good offensive players. Pitching alone represents at most somewhere around 40% of a team’s productivity. Add in that your proposed foundation for a rotation consists of good – even very good – but importantly not great pitchers… the math just doesn’t work.
Now, the big, big problem I see with what the A’s have done this offseason is that while they’ve traded many of their good trade chips, they probably haven’t gotten back that cornerstone offensive player. Maybe one of those guys they got for Gio may become that. But seriously – I don’t think a single one of the A’s position players would be slated as a starter on the Rangers this year. They have to completely reinvent the position player side of the ball in the entire organization. This rebuilding effort is a much needed – though probably a year later than ideal – attempt to do that.
Beane for years has GM’d aggressively to make the A’s respectable. But I don’t think he’s GM’d to win in a long time and there is a difference. This may be the first offseason in a long time that he’s actually taking the risks necessary to allow the A’s to possibly compete at some point in the future. The moves are all risky, and I think he probably could have gotten more during the season last year (for instance), but at least he’s doing something.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
People seem to constantly forget how young Cahill and Anderson are
I agree that they aren’t great pitchers now but Oakland rushed then horribly and it hurt their development, particularly Cahill’s. I think you’re going to see greatness out of both of them.
That said, your larger point about the hitting is the truth, Truth! There might not be an A’s hitter that would make the Rangers’ starting line-up on a regular basis in 2012. On the flip side, the Rangers have a bunch of guys in the line-up who’s contracts run out by the end of 2013 and are at an age where simply signing them to extensions might be more trouble then they’re worth. Profar is awesome and Odor has potential but they’re both a ways away. Olt is blocked at 3B and if Martin can’t hack it then you’re thin in the outfield. The Rangers have a lot of money coming in and potentially a lot of money coming off the books in the next couple years but no one can afford to build a new line-up through FA.
You’re probably right about 2012. But the A’s are looking farther down the road then that.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I don't think people are forgetting how young Cahill and Anderson are.
I think they’re looking at their track records and projecting a lack of greatness for both, unless Anderson can stay healthy.
As for the Rangers: It’s not as if they’ll need an entirely new lineup in 2014, unless absolutely everything goes wrong with both their extensions and their farm system. They’re discussion long-term deal with Napoli. I expect they might try to extend Kinsler. They’d still have Andrus and Beltre in 2014. First base might still be covered by Moreland, if they don’t have better options — like, say, moving Olt across the diamond, although I still think he’s worth more in trade — and CF belongs to either Martin nor Borbon, unless neither sticks, which would be a bit of a disaster.
So if they decided to go entirely with free agents (and that completely discounts their ability to use their prospects for trades): they need to replace Hamilton and Cruz for 2014, assuming they don’t re-sign either; and they need a designated hitter. Find two Corner outfielders and a DH via development, signing, or trade over the next two years? Doesn’t sound like the end of the world to me.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
In hindsight I shouldn't have said greatness
Conjures up visions of Halladay level dominance and that’s reaching way too far.
Borbon. Really? It’s Martin or bust and if it’s bust you’ll need a whole new outfield. Napoli is a good player coming off a career year. There’s plenty of opportunity for Texas to stumble in the next few years. The bigger question is, can the A’s position themselves to do something if it happens?
The monster at the end of this blog.
Hard up and now they have RedDick...
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
Pressure? If there’s any pressure it’s the pressure pressurizing the panty cannon.
“The last four digits of the Rangers’ $51.7MM bid for Yu Darvish were 3411, tweets Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun. Rangers president Nolan Ryan wore #34 as a player and Darvish wears #11.”
Hah, thats why my guess was 52,011,011. DIdn’t foresee the Nolan angle…
So Nolan really does love Yu and hate CJ. Perfect.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
This punches a small hole in Galloway's "Nolan wasn't on board" meme.
by VM on Dec 28, 2011 9:21 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe this was what Daniels had to do to convince him.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
I'm just going to assume Beane wanted more from the Rangers than that...
Because I’d have liked Bailey at that price.
by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 28, 2011 8:33 PM CST reply actions
Or the Rangers were concerned about his medicals.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Or they didn't want to give up Mike Olt...
by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 28, 2011 8:42 PM CST up reply actions
I suspect the Rangers were willing to part with Olt to land Bailey
The question would be the other parts of the deal.
To use my comp above, I wonder if Olt/Perez/Skole would have gotten the deal done.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 28, 2011 8:49 PM CST up reply actions
I never really got the Bailey obsession
don’t the Rangers have enough right handed relievers?
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
It probably should have...
Josh Reddick was probably just too enticing as the perfect Billy Beane outfielder.
by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 28, 2011 9:16 PM CST up reply actions
Much more likely than Moreland
Beane hasn’t given up on Barton, plus he has Allen and Carter he could add to the 1B mix.
The monster at the end of this blog.
his return for Gio was pretty nice
but really, of the 3 guys they’ve dealt (notably their only 3 real trade chips), that was the only trade that looks like a solid win at the moment. I imagine they could have gotten more for Bailey at the last trade deadline when the Rangers were sending guys like Erlin and Wieland for Adams.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
seems like he is always making questionable deals
they must really be having some money issues
by RangerMad on Dec 28, 2011 8:58 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
Best GM in the AL West
JD
Z
DiPito
Beane
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
too early to judge DiPoto
and just what has Z done in Seattle?
by RangerMad on Dec 28, 2011 9:28 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
So....
JD or Beane?
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
Agreed
I just don’t get all the Beane love.
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
He's been the g.m. in Oakland for 14 years
The first half of his tenure, he was probably, if not the best g.m. in the game, one of the top handful of g.m.s. I don’t think you can say that any more…I don’t think he’s a bad g.m., but it is hard to argue that he is currently significantly above average.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 28, 2011 9:36 PM CST up reply actions
My point exactly
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
Well I don't feel sorry for him.
He has had chances to leave and he didn’t. He knows he would be exposed with a team that has money.
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
Friedman?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
He and JD are 1 and 2
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
His best just isn't good enough.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Well, he's probably a fairly important figure in the history of GMing
It’s just that the rest of baseball quickly learned to utilize and expound upon his innovations, while he sat in Oakland and watched his handcuffs get tighter.
I wonder
Do I love you - or the thought of you?
lolz
so much for Bailey costing Martin Perez+
Welp
@pgammo Peter Gammons
If Reddick not in deal, Bailey would have been traded to Texas
Defending Big D Check it out
Twitter
"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
And we'll never know what sort of package we put on the table.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Jamey speculates a rough comparable could be Leonys, Villanueva, and Roman Mendez.
I think we all hope Leonys ends up better than Reddick, by a good amount.
As good as Prince Fielder would've looked in a 4XL Rangers' uniform, we all know you win with pitching. -- JJT
The truth about MLers from a MLer, Todd Coffey:
"In my heart of hearts, if it's the right contract, I would look to definitely come back to the Nationals."
As an A's fan, I'd have been fine with not having Reddick in the line-up
The monster at the end of this blog.
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