SB Nation Dallas Editor's Pick
LSB Offseason Community Prospect Ranking: #6
by vfn on Dec 3, 2011 9:45 AM CST
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In an absolute landslide, the #5 Rangers prospect is Neil Ramirez!
1. Jurickson Profar, SS (62%)
2. Martin Perez, LHP (78%)
3. Mike Olt, 3B (53%)
4. Leonys Martin, OF (48%)
5. Neil Ramirez, RHP (77%)
As I said yesterday, short of a run off, which would be tomorrow, this is the only CPR of the weekend.
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We were spoiled on how easy the top 5 seemed
Atleast it was easy for me, anyway.
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Dec 3, 2011 10:00 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
There's no rational way to argue for ordering the 6-20. It's all about preferences.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
This I'd where my prospect knowledge takes a big hit
But I’m also going with Guzman
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Dec 3, 2011 10:06 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Is*
iPhones…
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Dec 3, 2011 10:09 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
In on the Guz-train
JD’s like, "you want some f*&#ing pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, b*#&hes!"- RCCook
LSB: "Oh s#*t, JD. You crazy!"
You just voted for Ross Perot.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
This is where I went
Can’t say it’s all that rational, but he’s the most exciting player (to me) up there
Kellin is a terrible name
I have given him a better name.
(I’ll fix it next time)
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
by vfn on Dec 3, 2011 9:56 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I met his grandparents in ST last year
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Dec 3, 2011 9:59 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
So many options here...
I’m leaning towards Alfaro, but this one is a tough vote.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
I have a discrimination against catchers that high
unless they are more refined
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
but I understand the upside argument
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Yeah, I feel like it's such a long shot that he actually sticks as C
That it’s not that great an advantage in my voting consideration
You think it's a long shot for Alfaro specifically to stick at C?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I don't recall anything speculating that he wouldn't stick.
And several talking about his arm and athleticism… he was a SS before we made him a C, right?
So I was just curious where that was coming from.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I have this vague recollection of reading about how raw he was back there
And how’s it’ going to be an extremely long process in learning the position.
I wonder if his bat doesn’t push him to another spot
Plate discipline will have to improve drastically before...
his bat warrants him moving to another spot. Right now his value is in the combo of his defensive and offensive ceilings even if he is raw.
I don't get the Scheppers votes
beyond HEY I KNOW THAT NAME
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
He does.
I don’t think a Scheppers vote here is crazy. He does still have great stuff.
But the injuries and the command are pretty big concerns.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
That's why I voted for him.
The ceiling is still high if he can stay somewhat healthy. Big if, I know, but the stuff is still there.
believe me i know english im just lazy
by The Texas Rangers numba 1 fan on Nov 11, 2011 10:50 AM EST
by Suicide Prince on Dec 3, 2011 11:15 PM CST up reply actions
Alfaro
he’s an inexperienced kid with crazy tools who kicked ass in his first year. Is the K/BB rate worrisome? Yep. But he’s got plenty of time to figure that out.
"By MLB.TV, we can see J. Hamilton's homer, M. Young's clutch, and N. Feliz's explosive. All about Rangers things can be our interest" --South Korean Rangers fan
I'm a Web & TV Sports Producer at WFAA. Feel free to email me about anything.
Yep.
The combination of tools based ceiling, age and position make him the next guy for me.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
You gotta add his results also
Doing what he did last year at the age and level he was at isn’t something that happens all the time
another thing
It seems that a lot of the excitement over Alfaro is tied in to the offensive production he’d bring to catcher, and I have a hard time assigning too much extra value to this notion, since so many young players(especially those that can hit) don’t stay at catcher.
Alfaro’s upside is great and I’ll vote him at #7 but if he can’t stay at catcher then you might just have a really got bat with as of yet undeveloped plate discipline. And he’s just so far away.
by Alan Smithee on Dec 3, 2011 11:00 AM CST up reply actions
As of now,
I didn’t think there was much doubt that he would be able to stay at catcher. Anything can happen in the future with prospects, especially prospects that young, but I’ve only read promising things about his work behind the plate.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
He could turn into the best throwing catcher the Rangers have had since Pudge.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
Done with the A prospects, now on to the B's
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Dec 3, 2011 10:01 AM CST via mobile reply actions
This is tough
Because the higher ceiling guys are also the ones with the lower floor. Doesn’t Ross have the best balance though? Very good ceiling, pretty high floor?
Jack Daddy
Ross' ceiling
isn’t very high. #4 starter/setup reliever.
"By MLB.TV, we can see J. Hamilton's homer, M. Young's clutch, and N. Feliz's explosive. All about Rangers things can be our interest" --South Korean Rangers fan
I'm a Web & TV Sports Producer at WFAA. Feel free to email me about anything.
Whats his floor?
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Dec 3, 2011 10:08 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
LOOGY
"By MLB.TV, we can see J. Hamilton's homer, M. Young's clutch, and N. Feliz's explosive. All about Rangers things can be our interest" --South Korean Rangers fan
I'm a Web & TV Sports Producer at WFAA. Feel free to email me about anything.
Walmart
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Heh
believe me i know english im just lazy
by The Texas Rangers numba 1 fan on Nov 11, 2011 10:50 AM EST
by Suicide Prince on Dec 3, 2011 11:17 PM CST up reply actions
I believe his ceiling is a #3, and his floor is a #4
But I’m probably mistaken
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Dec 3, 2011 10:08 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Not even close.
Floor is mop-up relief guys.
Lots of prospect guys think he won’t stick in the roto.
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
I was mistaken
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Dec 3, 2011 10:51 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
ross
Other than the one small hiccup after his promotion last year, he’s pretty much dominated everywhere he’s been, four different levels. As a fan, if it’s really your inclination to discount those six AA starts as a fluke, you’ll do so. If they aren’t, though, are we really all still convinced he won’t be anything more than a back of the rotation guy? When he’s posted such strong HR/9IP and K/BB rates throughout his minor league career?
by Alan Smithee on Dec 3, 2011 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
There are guys...
…who know how to pitch, but who don’t have great stuff, who have a lot of success at the lower levels but come down to earth at the upper levels. I think there’s a lot of thought that Ross is someone whose stuff won’t necessarily play as well as he moves up the ladder.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 3, 2011 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
yeah
I certainly see the logic in that assertion. I guess I was just very impressed with the fact that he took to the Double-A jump so incredibly well, at a month past 22, and that in that brief stint he showed no trouble missing bats.
I mean, his fastball is supposed to be better than, say, Yusmeiro Petit’s was, right?
by Alan Smithee on Dec 3, 2011 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
Sure, that same argument also applied to Erlin and Wieland
One can argue that Ross has better stuff than both of them, but it’s the command that holding him back
A guy with a No. 4 floor would be pretty awesome.
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
Heh
Yes it would
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Dec 3, 2011 11:02 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
GhostOfLamb just signed up for SBN
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Dec 3, 2011 10:10 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
The Ross votes are terrible.
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
The Robbie Ross fans are dedicated.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
They're delusional as fuck
but damn if they aren’t dedicated.
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
yea terrible pick this high
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
I don't think it's terrible.
It just shows you value proximity more than ceiling.
To be fair Ross did well last year and handled the jump to AA fairly well in the short time.
It’s not where I would go… but I don’t think it’s terrible.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
He's barely gotten his feet wet in AA
It’s not like he’s banging on the door.
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
But compared to someone like David Perez...
It’s quite a bit closer.
And again… I don’t have Ross in my top ten… I just don’t think there’s any methodology that is so clear cut to call Ross being voted here “terrible”.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
well its my opinion...I have Ross somewhere between 11-15
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
Even with the much lower ceiling.
Ross has slightly better proximity and consistency that none of the others have. At this point, it is more likely that Ross contributes to a major league team then any of the 4 ultra-talented guys. My problem with Alfaro, Perez and Akins is that how do you pick one over the other. They all have immense ceilings, are all a long ways away and either have significant holes in their game or have struggled with advancements.
i like Ross too....just goes to show you how deep this organization is
i just wouldn’t put him in the top 10
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
By this point next year
We should all have a much better idea where Akins, Alfaro and Perez are at. Should at least see one of them make significant progress in their game, hopefully all 3.
Between Alfaro, Perez, and Akins
all have high ceilings. However, Alfaro stands out. He put up great numbers in a very aggressive assignment to Spokane. He’s the best of the bunch.
And Guzman (in case people are wondering)? Wait until he at least takes an at-bat before putting him over Alfaro or Akins. Sheesh.
i didn't vote for him
but calling anyone ‘delusional as fuck’ for choosing someone using whatever criteria they want on a prospect list is stupid as fuck.
but damn if you aren’t dedicated.
by Longhorn on Dec 3, 2011 11:49 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
They thought it was "greatest bust potential" that we were ranking.
Beltre would take the cake, probably followed by Scheppers.
If we still had Wieland, where would you vote him?
I think that’s about where I’d put Ross
I wouldn't think about Wieland until 15, give or take a spot.
and I think he’s a better prospect than Ross.
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
by vfn on Dec 3, 2011 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
Also... this makes me wish...
It was more like an MVP style vote where we submit a ballot of 25 names and then assign point values based on ranking.
We’re going to see a big split amongst Alfaro, Guzman, Perez, Akins for ceiling guys and everyone who voted for them would probably put all four ahead of Ross.
Which opens the door for Ross voters to concentrate and jump ahead.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I honestly can't see him jumping that far ahead
He’ll end up overrated throughout it all…. but I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a runoff come tomorrow.
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
For a runoff...
I would say that you should win by 10%. I.e. if you have 40% and the next has 29%… no runoff needed.
And anyone within 10% of the leading vote getter should be included in the runoff.
That’s my thought.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
And you do.
Both are entitled to your opinions.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
by Aqua on Dec 3, 2011 11:39 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
He's not insulting the other side, though.
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
there are a lot of reasons to like Ross
he doesn’t excite, but he’s a quality arm that generally keeps the ball in the ballpark. He does good job of stiking guys out, and doesn’t walk many at all. Those are 3 qualities I like in a pitcher. It’ll be nice to see him face advanced competition. If he continues to perform, I don’t see any reason not to vote him this high. There are a lot of candidates though
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
I never said that.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
by Aqua on Dec 3, 2011 1:12 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'm curious with the big Ross debate
Where do the majority of you have him ranked? I’m thinking in the 11 to 15 range…
by Schrute Farms on Dec 3, 2011 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
I have Ross probably 15-20.
Lotta arms in this system.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
That's where I am.
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
15-20
His arm is behind DPerez, LuJack, Loux, Grimm, and maybe MDLS/Buckel.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
Probably somewhere in the 9-13 range for me.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
10-15 range
Perseverance isn't just the willingness to work hard. It's that, plus the willingness to be stubborn about your own belief in yourself."
---Merlin Olsen
For me, it's all about upside at this point. Hard to choose between DPerez, Alfaro, and Guzman.
Went with DPerez. He’s shown some of his upside in games, and it seems like from scouting reports that Alfaro has more chinks in the armor than DPerez. In fact, I would put Jordan Akins above Alfaro, because Akins has shown a recent trend of significant developmental advances.
My order goes: DPerez, Guzman, Akins, Alfaro.
Then it becomes even muddier with the less high ceiling but better developed prospects.
Victor Payano and Yohander Mendez should be on the list soon. Please, JD, let us add Soler.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
Profar's left-handed swing and Alfaro's swing are my two favorite to watch.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
Wouldn't shock
Me at all if Matt West has the best major league career of them all. Or if he’s the closer opening day 2013
Curious on the Ross hate as to what’s driving it. I haven’t seen him pitch so don’t have a good sense. I remember the first time I saw kiker in frisco and I could not have been more unimpressed. Said then there was no way that guys ever started a maj league game. Are people seeing the same thing here? Just asking.
Jack Daddy
It's that if he is the fucking #6 prospect, then this system is a lot shittier than we believe.
because he is a Top 10 prospect type in bad systems. Low ceiling, not great scouting reports, pretty shitty stuff, he’s got good stats but stats aren’t the best way to tell a story in prospect rankings.
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
Parks rated him 17th in ceiling last May.
So yes, in terms of ceiling, 6 is too high. But he has shown progress/consistency in his game that is lacking with the young, ceiling guys.
Consistency is the Ross bandwagon buzzword
Geez.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
by Aqua on Dec 3, 2011 11:57 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I would be surprised if Matt West had the best major league career
Of our entire prospect list.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
And I LOVE Matt West.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I thinking (or at least hoping)
he means after the top 5, but have no idea
#TheLegend
Perseverance isn't just the willingness to work hard. It's that, plus the willingness to be stubborn about your own belief in yourself."
---Merlin Olsen
This is not necessarily a responsible vote, but I can't help myself.
I only saw him in two games, but Alfaro just seemed to be oozing talent in a visceral way. He just looked special, and I’m probably underrating some important skill like, say, plate discipline, but I was in love with him.
Parks isn’t helping, either.
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
When you saying this is someone's "ceiling" and this is someone's "floor"
How are you defining ceiling and floor?
If the player makes the major leagues, the absolute best and worst case scenario
Perseverance isn't just the willingness to work hard. It's that, plus the willingness to be stubborn about your own belief in yourself."
---Merlin Olsen
Shouldn't the floor also include not making it out of AA?
For example… Engel Beltre?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Yes it should.
Perseverance isn't just the willingness to work hard. It's that, plus the willingness to be stubborn about your own belief in yourself."
---Merlin Olsen
Right
Are you talking about 90%/10% projection? 75%/25%? 100%/0%?
Its hard to talk to people about ceiling and floor without an agreement of the definition of the terms.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 3, 2011 10:57 AM CST up reply actions
90/10 sounds right
I always think of the floor as a non-injury floor, too.
Just because we are all aware that an injury can stop any prospect, no matter how great.
The absolute best case scenario for every pitcher on this list is that they become a #1 starter
The absolute worst case scenario is that they don’t pan out, or if they make it to the majors, it is as a long man.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 3, 2011 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
Oh this conversation is always fun.
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
For me, a player's ceiling is what I think is their realistic best case scenario if they work on their weaknesses
and make it to the Majors. A player’s floor is what you can realistically expect out of them if they manage to at least make it to the AAAA level where they are bouncing between the Majors and AAA. So for the most part, there is an assumption that the prospect will at least get a shot at the Majors.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
This is what I was trying to say.
Perseverance isn't just the willingness to work hard. It's that, plus the willingness to be stubborn about your own belief in yourself."
---Merlin Olsen
That doesn't really make sense for floor, though
Because then everybody has pretty much the same floor by definition.
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
Well look at 2 pitchers like Perez and Ross
You could say that both have the same floor in that neither will make it as even a long man out of the pen. But with what we know about both guys, I feel pretty confident in saying that Perez’s floor is that of a good LHP out of the bullpen while Ross’ floor is probably more like a AAAA guy who might be able to cut it as a long man. There’s always a chance things go horrible for Perez, but he hasn’t given much reason to assume that he won’t be able to carve out a career as a RP in the Majors.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
That's a slightly different definition of floor, and I don't think it's just semantics.
I tend to agree with octoberty’s definition of 75%/25% myself.
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
You can use the 75/25
In the end, I think we are all always talking about the same thing (more or less).
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
I was talking about Martin Perez, not David Perez
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Wow...
I just decided to go with Alfaro. Didn’t expect Ross and Scheppers to be the two guys closest to him though.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
I think this is one of those times you see the impact of a group that doesn't converse as much on LSB.
But still shows up and has opinions… and perhaps opinions they don’t want to get shouted at about.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I really don't have a huge problem...
with voting for either one of those guys here. It’s just not what I expected this vote to be so far.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Then maybe they shouldn't be voting for Ross
glances over at vfn
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
You don't think there's a contingent of lurkers that don't interact much?
I see it in the Community Projections for sure. Some people participate in those and comment on them but don’t talk in the other threads.
My guess is the very aggressive nature of many of our commenters may dissuade them.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
who the fuck is matt west?
also… i have my doubts about akins…. i bet akins sucks.
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Dec 3, 2011 11:01 AM CST reply actions
West is a failed position player
who throws smoke as a reliever.
Might see the show next year.
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
Matt West was our 2nd round pick in 2007 as a 3B.
Converted in 2011 to a pitcher after struggling for two years in low A ball. Parks gave him the highest ceiling out of any relief prospect in our system.
Mid 90’s fastball that explodes and a wipeout slider with a strong command projection. Struck out 35 guys and only walked 1 in like 27 innings in Spokane.
Has a real shot to shoot through the system quickly and is already on the 40 man roster to protect him from rule 5 poaching.
If he pitches well in the minors this year possibility he could come out of the pen for the Rangers late in the year.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I bet Akins sucks, too
In fact, you could pick any player in this poll, say “I bet he sucks,” and more likely than not be right.
That’s what we call the Dan Cahill method of prospect evaluation.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 3, 2011 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
And given the nature of prospects...
Strong probablility of being right too.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Forgive me if I don't listen to a prospect opinion from somebody who doesn't know who matt west is...
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
yep.. had no clue who matt west was... willing to accept punishment.. or just keep not caring
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Dec 3, 2011 2:04 PM CST up reply actions
Not saying you have to care
Just thought it was funny you were like “who the fuck is Matt West? But this other prospect? he sucks.”
You’re an interesting man, IANF.
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
Random Question
but anyone know how Font’s progressing now?
Dallas Stars Examiner
used to be under name hinduplaya
Not so random. Haven't heard anyone mention setbacks, which puts his timetable as easing into the season.
Hopefully, he’ll be full bore for the second half, and really be back at full performance next spring training.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
Mike Olt knows
but he respects Wilmer’s privacy.
"By MLB.TV, we can see J. Hamilton's homer, M. Young's clutch, and N. Feliz's explosive. All about Rangers things can be our interest" --South Korean Rangers fan
I'm a Web & TV Sports Producer at WFAA. Feel free to email me about anything.
Mike Olt asked him to reply on a new line
as to not take anything away from Mayur’s question.
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
That's exactly it.
"By MLB.TV, we can see J. Hamilton's homer, M. Young's clutch, and N. Feliz's explosive. All about Rangers things can be our interest" --South Korean Rangers fan
I'm a Web & TV Sports Producer at WFAA. Feel free to email me about anything.
Alfaro for me
Its tough to pick someone here, so I had to go with the super young catching prospect who Parks may sneak away to Oklahoma and marry. I think Ross at 6 is too early, but I’ll probably start voting for him somewhere in the backend of the top 10. I don’t know where to rank Odor, Guzman, or Akins. I might even have to go Skole somewhere in the top 10.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
I understand
the appeal of looking at prospects’ ceilings. Am I wrong, though, in thinking the chance of guys like Skole, Akins, Cone, etc. becoming nothing, as in having little to no major league career whatsoever, is greater than the chance of Ross becoming nothing?
I feel like Ross has shown enough to comfortably say if he stays healthy he can have a career of more than a few years in the big leagues, even if it means he’s just a LOOGY or unspectacular middle reliever or spot starter. That’s better than nothing. Based on the information we have now, I’d probably bet on Ross not being a nothing before those three.
by Alan Smithee on Dec 3, 2011 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
You're not wrong, but that also doesn't mean he's a better prospect.
That’s where the opinion part comes in… which is better, a 10% chance of a superstar with a 40% chance of busting out, or a 0% chance of a superstar with a 25% chance of busting completely? I don’t think there’s a clear answer at all (and I realize those numbers are completely arbitrary)
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
By this logic, Tanner Scheppers probably isn't top-ten for you
Because of his chance of injury.
You value proximity over potential almost absolutely. That’s not wrong, but I don’t agree.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
by Aqua on Dec 3, 2011 11:52 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
he's close
The top seven I feel pretty locked in with, but after that there’s four to six pitchers that are fairly close for me, and Scheppers is one of them. Ordering 8-20 in this system is almost like picking names out of a hat. It’s tough.
I don’t think I’m valuing proximity absolutely. My undoubted number one hasn’t reached high A yet.
I’m just very puzzled why there is so much vocal skepticism toward Ross despite his quality results as high as Double-A, yet growing and accepted support for Akins on the basis of really pretty much nothing beyond assumptions about athletic ability he’s yet to show off outside the Arizona League.
I had a hard time with the support for Beltre once upon a time, too. And he had shown a lot more than Akins, Skole, or Cone have to this point.
by Alan Smithee on Dec 3, 2011 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
If someone called me up and said "We want Ross."
I would say ok (within reason).
“We want Akins” is met with “Wait. This better be good.” And that is primarily scouting reports and interviews, not just results.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
by Aqua on Dec 3, 2011 12:18 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Ross = Dave Bush, best case scenario
One of my biggest concerns with him is is K/9 ratio. 7 is not good in the minors. I can’t remember the normal adjustment, but that is Feldman-esque in the majors (which is to say, not very good for a starting pitcher or any kind of a pitcher at all). Dave Bush is probably a realistic view of what Ross might hope to accomplish in his lifetime.
In fact, Bush is a GREAT comparison. Look at his minors #‘s, and also note his K/9 was better than Ross’s by a tad.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=bush—002dav
Bush is a fly-ball pitcher, Ross gets a lot of groundballs and is a lefty
That’s a pretty big difference
ah, I understand now; but I don't think strictly comparing minor league stats of two widely different pitchers is all that productive
I mean their minor days are 10 years apart, different leagues, different context, different defense.
Maybe not
If you can do better, by all means. I just expect Ross to ideally, in the best of possible scenarios, to have a career mirroring “meh” David Bush. The man with no out pitch.
I don't know, I just like to criticize without offering suitable alternatives
but maybe Clayton Richards of the Padres? A left-handed Jake Westbrook?
bush
the k/9 rate is a little inflated by the fact that Bush was a reliever when he first made his pro debut.
His first year as a starter was as a 23 year old in High A. Ross reached Double-A a month after turning 22.
Also, based on what I’ve heard, and maybe someone will contradict me, I think Ross has a better, heavier fastball(hence the groundballs, which Bush doesn’t get), especially for a lefty.
by Alan Smithee on Dec 3, 2011 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
That's a pretty meh career
The chances are that not all the guys that will be ranked ahead of Ross will even make it past AAA. But the chances that Ross is much more than a replacement level player in the Majors isn’t that good and if he is, then it won’t be by much. But with a guy like Akins or Alfaro, if they make it to the Majors and can play like their talent says they can, they’re potential All Stars.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
in any system
if I guy outside your top five has a career, “meh” or not, it’s a success.
by Alan Smithee on Dec 3, 2011 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
That's not the point, though.
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
it's my point
likelihood of major league career is a factor in my valuation of prospects.
by Alan Smithee on Dec 3, 2011 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
Why does it count as a success only outside the top 5?
And more importantly, just because it counts as a success doesn’t mean he should be ranked above another player who has perhaps less of a chance at being good.
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
I didn't say "only"
I just meant when you’re not talking about elite guys it becomes a bit of a crapshoot at picking who’s going to be a big leaguer.
by Alan Smithee on Dec 3, 2011 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
That still doesn't explain
why a more likely MLB career is better than a less likely chance at a much better career.
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
it isn't, at least not inherently
it depends on how much less likely and how much better the career.
Right.
And what people are saying is that Ross will have a quite meh career at best. So saying that at least that’s a career isn’t really much of an argument.
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
i don't agree
with either of those sentences. But I think everyone’s had their say on this topic, so…
Well right, I understand you don't agree with the meh career.
But If the argument against Ross is that even if he does make the majors he won’t be very good, while the other guys on the list could be very good, then saying it’s a success any time a prospect makes the majors, while true, does not address that argument.
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
hmm
For any prospect, it’s not about just making the majors. As I said above, I believe Ross has a good chance of having a career, i.e more than a few years as a regular.
Jordan Akins could have a career(hopefully he does!), but at this point in time, based on the information I have, I can’t say I think it’s very likely.
Regardless of talent or supposed “upside” they had as minor leaguers, I’d rather have the next Brian Shouse instead of the next Drew Henson.
Since I feel like I’m just repeating myself, what part of which argument am I neglecting to address? My understanding of the argument was that others believe I value proximity too strongly, while I believe others value upside too strongly.
I just have a hard time putting too much stock in upside when it’s in the stead of results.
BTW, though I disagree with your pick
I appreciate you chiming in instead of simply voting. The Rossian voters tend to vote and do nothing more.
admittedly
I think there’s a chance it won’t take more than about two weeks into next season for me to change my mind about Ross ahead of Alfaro.
I hope he is
He did more than hold his own in the NWL. Unless there’s some injury or mechanical issue that would need him to stay in extended spring training, I say put him on the Profar path.
This is a good argument.
This I like. I may disagree, but it’s a well formulated argument in the way that “a prospect making the majors is a success” is not.
Sorry, I just dislike poor arguments. Nothing personal. :)
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
You could consider it a success
considering the odds of any minor leaguer to make it to the Majors, but that won’t do much for the Rangers. There’s a smaller chance that a guy like Akins or Alfaro makes it to the Majors, but there’s a greater chance that they’ll actually give the team something.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
#Legend
Defending Big D Check it out
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--iorange555 8/23/2011
I wanted Akins, but I went Alfaro
Just to help make sure Robbie freaking Ross doesn’t win. He is not the sixth-best prospect we have.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
by Aqua on Dec 3, 2011 11:48 AM CST via mobile reply actions
I don't really get the vitriol towards Ross
I understand not voting him this high, but there are differences of opinions and different approaches to ranking prospects. Aqua for instance, is almost, purely high ceiling – high risk guys. I tend to like some of the guys that are more refined and don’t have as much risk in reaching their ceiling albeit it might be a little lower, their likelihood is greater, which I take into account.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Surprised at the lack of Cody Buckel love...
In his fist full season as a pro, he put up a 2.61 ERA, 11.17 K/9, 2.51 BB/9.
Compare that to Robbie Erlin last year with 2.12 ERA, 9.19 K/9, 1.33 BB/9. By all accounts, they have similar stuff (correct me if i’m wrong) and are of similar physical stature.
And the top HS pitcher from the 2010 draft, Jameson Taillon put up (in the same league, at the same age) a 3.98 ERA with 9.42 K/9 and 2.14 BB/9.
Sure, he doesn’t have the upside of guys like Alfaro, Akins, Guzman, etc., but isn’t he a heck of a lot better bet to reach his upside of a mid-rotation guy? I guess it comes down to how you value upside/scouting reports vs. probability to reach that upside.
I love Tea Time.
But not here.
I do have him higher than Ross on my list though.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Yep.
He’s someone I’ll consider long and hard after the high ceiling quartet are off the board.
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
His time will come very soon for me
Perseverance isn't just the willingness to work hard. It's that, plus the willingness to be stubborn about your own belief in yourself."
---Merlin Olsen
Why is Buckel so much better of a bet?
And some nice cross-level statistical comparisons there between Ross and Buckel.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
by Aqua on Dec 3, 2011 12:11 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I didn't compare Ross and Buckel
I compared Buckel with Erlin from last year in Hickory – the same level.
Buckel is a better bet because he has had huge success in a full season league – something the others (with the possible exception of Alfaro at Spokane) don’t have.
I agree, Alfaro is right around here for me too, but I have a hard time looking past a 19 yr old having this kind of success in a league full of 21-22 yr olds.
by Schrute Farms on Dec 3, 2011 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
My apologies.
I just saw Robbie.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
by Aqua on Dec 3, 2011 12:20 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Ross Perot
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Does that make DPerez independent #2 (Nader, maybe)?
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
Also, I asked Parks for an update on Skole
I asked bc I think he may be underrated by our fan base.
The last scouting report I’ve seen from Parks gave us this before last season:
Positive Attributes: Excellent athlete with plus speed; solid-average power potential; solid-average arm strength; good strength; hit tool is present
Negative Attributes: Multi-sport athlete with immature baseball skills; struggles with routes and angles in CF; struggles against LHP; raw at the plate
He was a #15 pick. and just put up a .264 / .366 / .389 line at Hickory as a 19-yr old. 14 doubles, 6 triples, and 9 HR’s.
I like Skole...
If he develops some power, like it’s thought he will, that line in Hickory looks a lot better. Love the fact that he can take a walk, might make up for poor batting avg’s down the line. If you go back and look at other HS position picks in the 2010 draft around #15, few performed as well as Skole.
by Schrute Farms on Dec 3, 2011 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
It's even more impressive considering he should've been picked much lower.
:)
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
His swing doesn't look all that conducive to generating power, despite good bat speed and strength.
He needs to have a year like the one Moreland had in which he changed from swinging on his front foot to staying back and swinging.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
Agreed
Guess I’m basing that on the potential being there and the fact that power is generally the last thing to develop…
by Schrute Farms on Dec 3, 2011 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, no one really talks about Skole.
But if we are going off upside then he should be rated pretty highly and he does have some success to back it up.
he was terrible in the beginning of last season
I ripped him, then I remember him going off.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
it was a encouraging season in my eyes
The Rangers need to be slow with this kid because of his lack of dedicated baseball time. Full year next year in High A will be difficult but I think he has the tools to succeed. We got to remember this kid was a football star in HS and had scholarships to a D-1 university so that was likely where his primary focus was. Hes had about a year and a half of dedicated baseball time and was aggressively assigned to Low A last year. Immediate results aren’t likely
Robbie Ross -- a #3 ML starter in the best possible future -- can not be #6 prospect.
Proximity/stats… That’s Sickels’ schtick. But, JD knows Ross is the type of guy the Rangers trade, and they keep the David Perez’s.
I probably rate Ross too lowly (15-20), because of his value to teams with lesser young pitching talent, but he is no #6 in this system.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
Hunter seems like a good comparison
You can’t go level by level because of how quickly he rose, but yeah, a softer tossing lefty Hunter seems about right.
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
by vfn on Dec 3, 2011 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
They're both backend rotation types if all goes well for them.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
I like Sickels
but the big glaring thing is Ross ahead of Neil Ramirez. I may defend Ross from the people whom he’s apparently cheated out of money/murdered the beloved pets of/prank called, but I certainly don’t think that highly of him.
I can see Odor as a top 10 guy.
His LH swing is only better-ed by Profar. It’s a thing of beauty but not quite an enchanting swing like Profar’s.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
#TheLegend
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
oh hey, Dodgers apparently letting Kuroda go
i’m more interested than i probably should be
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
If only he would have came to MLB sooner
his power arsenal would have been awesomer when he was in his prime. Hell, he’s like 80 now and his velo is in matt harrison country
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
He is what Edwin Jackson wants to be when he grows up
and the owner of a thousand legendary pitching faces
Confused by all the scheppers love
and the lack of Akins votes.
by TheHuntforRedOctober on Dec 3, 2011 4:22 PM CST reply actions
For me, it has nothing to do with "love"
I selected Scheppers in the hopes that he can stay healthy. Will that happen? Probably not…but I like his stuff and the potential.
believe me i know english im just lazy
by The Texas Rangers numba 1 fan on Nov 11, 2011 10:50 AM EST
by Suicide Prince on Dec 3, 2011 11:27 PM CST up reply actions
So, why only one for the entire weekend?
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
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