Poll: As constructed, are the Rangers better than the Angels?
by rooster on Dec 8, 2011 12:03 PM CST
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PrintI have a hard time believing that signing Pujols and CJ only "narrows the gap". The Angels have a rotation with a #4 starter that has a track record comparable or better than Colby or Holland (whichever you feel is the Rangers' new ace). The offense, yeah, it's not as good as the Rangers, but the only way it isn't drastically improved is if Vernon Wells and Torii Hunter truly are worse than last year, and while they are badly overpaid, I doubt they do worse than last year.
The argument that Pujols' contract will be an albatross (Albertross?) over it's second half doesn't seem all that good of a bet. Sure, Albert will be older, but, as Loria said, he will drive the Latin market. Revenues should be better than ever, and they have a nice downward trend in his salary in the second half of the contract.
I thought the Angels hired a newbie, no-nothing GM. This was a well played negotiation. It has extremely high revenue generation potential to offset the financial risk, and it's financial risk decreases with time after a couple of years. This is a big-market club, and I was wrong about their new GM.
I think it was well played by the Rangers' GM as well. The bottom line is that Pujols changes everything. Adding CJ to Pujols means CJ is on the division favorite team, which is one of the main things he wanted. That's even before the consideration that he is playing for his hometown team. Without Pujols in this equation, I would've raged over the Rangers' not matching a 5/77.5 contract. There's not much anyone can do when the entire competitive balance changes as drastically as this.
So, vote below on whether the Rangers are the better team. Discuss what it would take to make them clearly the better team when ST starts.
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It takes something more than the rumored trade targets on the market to nudge the Rangers back ahead.
The Rangers need an impact pitcher that is better than Danks, Gio, AJ, Floyd, and maybe Garza to feel like they’ve pulled back ahead.
Yu might be that type of pitcher.
Fielder? Would widen the separation on offense, for sure. He probably would make the Rangers the AL West Favorite.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
The truth about MLers from a MLer, Todd Coffey:
"In my heart of hearts, if it's the right contract, I would look to definitely come back to the Nationals."
The Rangers' ceiling is not as high as it was last year, at this moment.
I’m not sure the Rangers have the higher celing.
How many potential 6+ WAR guys does either team have?
Rangers: 4, maybe 5 hitters and 0 pitchers
Halos: 1 hitter, 3 pitchers
That’s pretty close, in terms of impact players, and Pujols could be like 1.5 impact players.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
The truth about MLers from a MLer, Todd Coffey:
"In my heart of hearts, if it's the right contract, I would look to definitely come back to the Nationals."
When I consider our ceiling
It includes Hamilton going into 08/10 mode and playing a full season.
Also, if we have 5 3-WAR SP’s and a stout bullpen with our offense, we can still win 95 games.
I guess it could be argued that Hamilton could have a season like 1.5 impact players (8-9 WAR season).
But, Pujols actually has been that type of player a number of times. It’s hard to really know what Hamilton’s upside is given his injury history. He’s definitely a threat for 6 WAR.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
The truth about MLers from a MLer, Todd Coffey:
"In my heart of hearts, if it's the right contract, I would look to definitely come back to the Nationals."
He was that player for 7 years in a row
lets hope he actually is declining a fair bit (of course he will still be great) and it wasn’t all just bad luck. Im sure fangraphs has had multiple articles on it…
High variance and budgets....
I’ve been thinking for quite a while that the benefit of a big budget isn’t necessarily having the most talented team, but, instead, having a very talented, low variance team.
Perhaps the Rangers have a budget that will never let them be a low variance team.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
The truth about MLers from a MLer, Todd Coffey:
"In my heart of hearts, if it's the right contract, I would look to definitely come back to the Nationals."
I voted for them
But I think it is very close and I don’t think we are done so I expect that I would have a different answer to that question as spring training starts.
What do you think it would take to get the Rangers back above the Halos?
I think it takes a Fielder or Yu (I’m such a fanboy of Greinke, I would add him to that list if he were available).
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
The truth about MLers from a MLer, Todd Coffey:
"In my heart of hearts, if it's the right contract, I would look to definitely come back to the Nationals."
it would take either Fielder or Yu, preferably both
I think you have to build a mid-nineties win team to expect to compete for this division next year.
Right now, I think we are short of that and the 2 obvious place to improve the team is top of the rotation and 1b. It just so happens that arguably the best 2 players to fill those holes are both available at a cost of only dollars. And at this point, I think the last thing you can do is destroy the one clear advantage we have on the Angels, our farm.
"I think we just have to wait and see how things shake its way out," -- Wash
If we get Yu or Fielder we're the favorites again
Otherwise I think the Angels have the advantage.
"I wish I could tell you that TRangers fought the good fight, and the 2 strangers let him be. I wish I could tell you that - but Beaumont is no fairy-tale world." - bking
There's always a chance that the moves the Angels made today may change that
at least I hope so.
"I wish I could tell you that TRangers fought the good fight, and the 2 strangers let him be. I wish I could tell you that - but Beaumont is no fairy-tale world." - bking
I know.
I have a hard time seeing how the Rangers can be the clear favorites going into the season.
Emily Jones: Adrian Beltre's pretty good?
Mike Napoli: Wow. How about that guy.
The truth about MLers from a MLer, Todd Coffey:
"In my heart of hearts, if it's the right contract, I would look to definitely come back to the Nationals."
I can see the Rangers winning 96
and the Angels 86
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
And that could happen, too, I guess
I think it’s unlikely, though.
by Black Francis on Dec 8, 2011 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly, it's up in the air
I bet the end of next season is a lot more exciting than the end of this season
I see them both winning 92
And Holland throws a CGSO while BGL walks 7 and gives up 8 ER in 2 IP.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
Pressure? If there’s any pressure it’s the pressure pressurizing the panty cannon.
As it stands right now that's how things look to me
Rangers are probably better, but 86 if they get a couple of bad breaks. The Angels are looking much better.
by Black Francis on Dec 8, 2011 1:24 PM CST up reply actions
I don't see the Rangers at 86 wins at all...
Nor really the Angels at 96. That’s seems like such an extreme.
by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 8, 2011 2:36 PM CST up reply actions
If they do nothing else
…and have injury problems they could very well be an 86 win team next season. I did say they would probably be better.
The Angels added 10 or 11 wins with Wilson and Pujols.
by Black Francis on Dec 8, 2011 3:03 PM CST up reply actions
outsider's opinion
I’d take the rangers over the angels. Seems like the angels have made up some ground, but I still like the rangers chances.
Something clever...
Seems pretty close, actually...
And that’s kind of a bummer. But, the second place team in the Rangers’ division signed the best position player and the best pitcher on the market and the Rangers are still right there with them. That’s…interesting.
by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 8, 2011 2:35 PM CST reply actions
yep
I think it’s close though I think I’d still pick the Rangers to win the West, barring injuries.
Which is not realistic.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
its not just the best position player on the market though
its the best position player in the last 15 years, top 10 of all time.
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/08/one-year-later-re-examining-last-winters-biggest-contracts/
by Sherman McCoy on Dec 8, 2011 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
Ok
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
Money for Rangers
I do not know what the Rangers have to spend. I do not know if this would work in the budget, but stay with me.
1. Sign Yu Darvish
2. Sign Fielder
3. If you sign Fielder, then Moreland, Harrison or Fieldman, M.Perez or N. Ram, low level upside prospect for Garza.
4. Ogando back to pen
That is my dream. Probably, will stay a dream.
On paper we still have the better offense, bullpen and maybe the better defense
But our rotation is riddled with question marks and what-ifs, and our two best offensive players have giant durability problems.
The Angels may not be as stacked in the lineup but, but they should be healthier, also pretty good defensively and they’ll be playing behind the best rotation in the AL, maybe baseball.
It’s probably still close, but’s it’s way too close for my liking. And it could very easily be not close at all if our rotation disappointing.
I don’t see how we haven’t pretty clearly fallen behind them unless we make a serious addition of our own.
"So your black people can't make sandwiches?" - GFF typo
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