Chase Utley's injury and Michael Young
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 9, 2011 9:35 AM CST
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PrintEvan Grant has a blog post up about Chase Utley's injury situation -- he's apparently not going to be ready for Opening Day, and it is unclear when he will be ready -- and the possibility this opens the door for Michael Young to go to Philadelphia to fill in for Utley.
There was, Grant says, talks at one point about Young going to Philadelphia for Placido Polanco and Joe Blanton, but the Rangers would have had to have eaten the difference in Young's salary and the Polanco/Blanton combo, which they weren't going to do. Grant also says Young indicated he would waive his no-trade to go to Philly.
Grant suggests this could re-open discussions between the teams, with Young being a fit to replace Utley at second base.
Here's the problem, though...unless Utley is going to be gone for at least the entire season, why would Philadelphia acquire Young and pay him what the Rangers would want them to pick up, never mind parting with value as part of the deal? Once Utley returns, you've got no place for Young to play, and if he's not happy being a DH in Texas, because he views himself as an everyday player, why would he waive his no-trade to go to Philadelphia, where he'd sit on the bench once Utley was healthy?
I just don't see Young to Philadelphia -- or anywhere else before the season starts -- as being a fit. After the season, when the contract is less onerous and more teams have holes, something could happen.
Now, though? I don't see it.
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And so it begins
SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
#phillies havent been in contact w/ #rangers lately but top scout charley kerfeld is following them and michael young
JD’s like, "you want some f*&#ing pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, b*#&hes!"- RCCook
LSB: "Oh s#*t, JD. You crazy!"
followed immediately by...
jrfinger John R. Finger
Ha! Charley and Pat Gillick just walked by… RT @Philled_In: RT @SI_JonHeyman: top scout charley kerfeld is following them & michael young
http://www.thegoodphight.com
I wouldn't mind it if it happened
but at this point I do think it could make us a weaker team.
What do voluntary mean?
The dude abides.....
What is the value that they are giving up?
I mean, I concede that Blanton and Polanco are valuable but it also seems like they have been trying to move those guys for a while
This is the team that needlessly extended Ryan Howard.
Seriously, go look at that contract.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
One could make the same comment...
…about the Rangers and Michael Young.
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 9, 2011 9:47 AM CST up reply actions
That would only make us seem half as dumb, though
or .75x as dumb, depending on how you look at it.
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Did you call the hypothetical hardware store and buy a theoretical chain saw?
More money makes it a dumber extension
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
Ryan Howard's a better player than MY, though.
A nightingale in a golden cage
That's me locked inside reality's maze
by LSJ on Mar 9, 2011 9:57 AM CST up reply actions
Not really
He might be, but since his contract extension doesn’t start for another year, there’s a good chance he won’t be worth much more. He was a 2 fWAR player last year and that doesn’t seem likely to change much for the better. He’s a poor defensive 1B who is declining with the bat. While Young wasn’t much with the bat and the glove, he at least played a more valuable position that upped his value.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
Didn't the Phillies
extend Howard twice?
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Mar 9, 2011 10:14 AM CST up reply actions
I believe
that the first Howard contract was just for his 3 normal arbitration years (he had one Super-2 arbitration year before that). So it didn’t extend into free agency (I remember going round and round with bigsteve about this, ultimately realizing I was probably wrong, I had thought what you are thinking).
I think the analogy would be if the Rangers signed Hamilton to a 2 year deal today, and then after this season signed him to a 5 year deal.
Go Rice Owls!
Ah, I see.
The 3 year part threw me off.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
If they give us Polanco, wouldn't Young take over at third when Utley comes back?
But of course, there’s really no reason for them to give us Polanco because that just opens a different hole at 3B. Don’t think there’s anybody in the majors behind Polanco on the depth chart or any really good 3B prospects in their system.
And then there’s also the question of if they’re really willing to let MY play 2B, why they wouldn’t just stick Polanco there in the meantime.
A nightingale in a golden cage
That's me locked inside reality's maze
The problem is
giving us Polanco at this point makes no sense for them. It would mean that they are still short a position for the near future. IE Young is at 2b for Utley then who plays 3b for them?
I think it’s amazing how similar Young’s and Polanco’s numbers are.
What do voluntary mean?
The dude abides.....
Why would Face waive his no trade?
Is he that desperate to get out of here that he’d sit on the bench for an NL team?
He probably looks at the team and says
I’m better then Polanco so therefore I will get the majority of the time. Too bad he forgot that Polanco is a good glove at 3b and honestly is a pretty equal hitter.
What do voluntary mean?
The dude abides.....
The problem is that Polanco has been quite a bit better over his career than Young.
They’re both older so I doubt the difference will be huge at this point, but at worst they’ll be equally valuable. I’d happily split the difference in money to take Blanton and Polanco for him.
What does Chris Davis do for them?
He would be a temp 3B with some good upside for them.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
I don't want to sell low on CD
I know I’m one of the few holdouts (and this puts me with Jennifer Floyd Engles) or whatever her name is but I still think he will figure it out
by thedudeabides on Mar 9, 2011 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
I think Young would get his PAs in Philly
Those are some aging players in that infield.
That said, it doesn’t make THAT much sense. I could see Philly seeing value to bringing Young in, but there would have to be cheaper options available – Texas isn’t eating all of his salary, and I don’t see why Philly would either want to pay Young bundles or pay in terms of prospects when teams can usually go out and find a Blanco-type filler player pretty easily.
Pretty much the fact that Philly wanted Texas to take on Polanco (who needs him?) + Blanton + Young’s remaining money is a sign that they’re not going to do something reasonable for Texas to do (Young + prospect/(some, not all) money for Blanton)
Go Rice Owls!
Much like the talk about getting Aaron Rowand to Texas (if the Giants kicked in a
shit-load of $$$) or trading for CRasmus….this is table talk and just being kicked around…call it the foundation for a possible deal with the Phillies that would need other parts.
The Phillies have a 39 year old in LF who is scheduled to make $ 12 million this season plus they may need a very suitable replacement for Utley and on top of this, they have major payroll issues.
What if the Phillies send us Ibanez & Blanton for Young & Murphy and the Phillies agree to take all 3 years of Young’s deal?
Do we need more or do you do the trade?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Ibanez would be taking Murphy's role so you're not overly dependent on him
but you’re definitely going to use him.
Blanton (2 years) & Ibanez would cost us $ 28 million but that gets the Rangers out from under Young’s deal.
We’d have our 4th/5th hole in the rotation plugged thru next year and Murphy’s replacement for this year.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
At least Raul Ibanez takes pride in his defense.
A nightingale in a golden cage
That's me locked inside reality's maze
No way do I do that deal
Murphy is every bit as good as Ibanez if not better and could possibly not top 12 million over the next 3 years. Add in an overpaid Blanton and it isn’t worth it to dump Young’s contract and lose a couple of valuable role players in the process.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
So then you swallow all $ 48 million of what Young's going to give you over the next 3 years
plus he gains full control of his future in late May.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I continue to explore trade possibilities
that don’t see the Ranges spending nearly 30 million to save 18 million. There’s still 2 years left after this season where he’ll be making 32 million dollars. You’ve got a much better chance of dumping his contract then and not having to eat as much of the contract to make it happen. Unless something pops up where the Rangers aren’t just moving most of that money into a different overpriced player (all while giving up Murphy, who I consider to be pretty valuable to this team), I’m fine with the team keeping Young here in the role that they’ve given him.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
Does it matter?
Ibanez isn’t likely to waive his no trade to come here anyway. At least I wouldn’t imagine that he would to be a 4th Of.
What do voluntary mean?
The dude abides.....
Ibanez has a NTC.
Nevermind/E Littella
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Wait, they gave Ibanez a no-trade?
HAHHAHAHAHAHA Phillies.
A nightingale in a golden cage
That's me locked inside reality's maze
Hey, you respect the Ibanez.
He hit two grand slams in the same inning. RESPECT!
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
That was Fernando Tatis.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"I am on a drug," Sheen said. "It’s called Charlie Sheen. It’s not available because if you try it you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body."
The commentary above is wrong re: MY not having a place to play after Utley comes back
If the trade would be a Young for Blanton/Polanco combo, then Young most definitely would have a spot as the every day 3rd baseman.
Sorry if that has been mentioned already, skimmed the posts but didn’t read them all.
Either playing time or WS Title...hmmm Philly makes sense...but how about the other way?
No doubt, Young’s claim to want playing time is somewhat justified. He’s a quality veteran who believes in himself, which is just the type of player I want on my club.
The issue is that his quality is on the decline and sooner or later, this could become a disruption.
A few short weeks ago, I was against any type of trade involving Young…but I have soured on having Young stay with the Rangers, simply because of the distraction that this topic has become.
If he stays here, then he will be the focus of Trade Talk, up through the Trade Deadline, and well after the Deadline…it will be the year of Young…and quite frankly, this team is better than that!!!
Thus, if they can get something of value in a trade with Philly, even if they have to eat some salary, I say go for it. Especially if its Blanton/Polanco…seems like they could help the Rangers without being a bag of distraction or controversy.
Then they can let the 1B play itself out, while continuing to develop the rest of the team and focus on winning the AL West and potentially making another Deadline Deal for whoever emerges as the Ace for hire in 2011!!!
Bottom line, Young has become a distraction to what should have been a Spring Training to celebrate the greatest season in Rangers history…now it’s turned into a footnote and needless to say, it’s PISSING ME OFF!!!
Michael Young & who to get Cole Hammels back?
Hammels is the 4th starter for Philly & could be 1 or 2 for us. What else would it take?
by FBH22 on Mar 9, 2011 11:30 AM CST via mobile reply actions
For their 4th starter?
I was thinking Young, Davis & a pitching prospect not named Perez
by FBH22 on Mar 9, 2011 11:36 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Why does it matter that he's their fourth starter?
He’s really fucking good.
It’s not like their price for him goes down because they have Halladay and Lee. You still have to offer something worth Cole Hamels, not worth some hypothetical team’s fourth starter.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"I am on a drug," Sheen said. "It’s called Charlie Sheen. It’s not available because if you try it you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body."
...like you said, Hamels is a #1 or 2 here or on most other teams.
Just because he happens to be the 4th starter behind three other really good pitchers on their squad doesn’t diminish his value or mean they’re gonna give him away for yesterday’s garbage.
A nightingale in a golden cage
That's me locked inside reality's maze
yea I guess I ws over valuing Young & Davis
& under valuing Hammels. Its just that the Phillies are the new MF Yankees. They have everyone
by FBH22 on Mar 9, 2011 11:57 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
For a young #2 level starter.
Only one year of team control left if I’m reading it right. Under contract for this year only, though there might be an arb year left. So a 28 year old #2 starter without significant health issues.
While he isn’t quite as good of a pitcher as Greinke was he also doesn’t have any mental problems in his past so you would probably be looking at a similar value level for him. So lets say one of Perez or Profar. One of Scheppers or Beltre. And then probably Davis and another b-/c+ level prospect.
What do voluntary mean?
The dude abides.....
If he would sign an extension
Profar, Scheppers, Davis & Young. I would do it. We have seen how hard it is to get a good pitcher in here.
by FBH22 on Mar 9, 2011 11:55 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Young would actually make us have to include something else good
Young has negative trade value right now. So we would likely have to either include one additional top player or take back almost equal bad salary.
What do voluntary mean?
The dude abides.....
Or pay 3/4 of Young's salary
I almost thought that was a given.
i wa including Young bc he would be going to replace Utley.
If MF Phillies three in a double meat cheese burger with Hammels. I would be thrilled. One more pitching prospect would be worth Hammels….if he signs an extension
by FBH22 on Mar 9, 2011 12:00 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
As fun as it is to speculate...
I sincerely doubt Amaro trades ANY of his starting 4 aces. He got crucified for trading Lee away in the first place. I doubt he’ll do it (or something similar) again.
I don't think he is a FA until 2013
According to Cots he has 4.143 service time, so I don’t think he’ll be FA after this year. He’ll have one big arbitration year left.
I think if you go after Hamels (and I have no idea how this even gets mentioned, since that doesn’t make sense for the Phillies), Michael Young isn’t part of the deal. Maybe you can give them someone like Nellie Cruz; trade from the Rangers strength (offense) for the Phillies strength (pitching)
Go Rice Owls!
I only asked for an opinion on Hammels
Because the name mentioned was Blanton. Blanton is of NO use to the Rangers. We already have a Blanton & he goes by the name of Tommy Hunter
by FBH22 on Mar 9, 2011 12:30 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Blanton is better than Tommy Hunter.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"I am on a drug," Sheen said. "It’s called Charlie Sheen. It’s not available because if you try it you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body."
not by enough to give up Young
But to each his own
by FBH22 on Mar 9, 2011 12:34 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
You've changed arguments three or four times now in this subthread.
And you’re wrong about the value of Michael Young.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"I am on a drug," Sheen said. "It’s called Charlie Sheen. It’s not available because if you try it you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body."
how did i change arguments?
This about phillies getting michael young. I asked what else would it take to get Hammels instead of Blanton. You said Blanton was better than Hunter. I didn’t argue with you, I only said he want that mug better to give up Young for.
by FBH22 on Mar 9, 2011 12:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I really like this discussion
On trading MY + for decent return and little $ exchanged. That would be a first wouldn’t it? Salary dump win-win?
by corbsclinton on Mar 9, 2011 6:45 PM CST via mobile reply actions
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