Wednesday a.m. Rangers stuff
by Adam J. Morris on May 4, 2011 10:26 AM CDT
Email
PrintThe average American League bullpen is allowing 4.31 runs per 9 innings in 2011.
The Texas Ranger bullpen is allowing 4.33 runs per 9 innings.
The average American League bullpen is allowing 30% of inherited runners to score in 2011.
The Texas Ranger bullpen has allowed 16% of inherited runners to score -- the lowest rate in baseball. Only 4 runners Ranger relievers have inherited have scored, by far the lowest in the league.*
* Of course, Texas relievers have inherited only 25 baserunners, the lowest in the A.L. This reflects the Wash/Maddux preference of having relievers start innings and pitch a full inning, rather than mix-and-match within an inning.
Only one reliever on the 25 man roster has an ERA higher than Pedro Strop's 3.72 -- Brett Tomko.
The raw numbers for the bullpen aren't bad. The Ranger bullpen, all in all, has not, performance-wise, been a weakness this year.
But it feels like a weakness. It feels like a gaping wound to the gut, with your intestines hanging out.
I hated the Ian Kinsler bunt in the 8th inning last night. Part of the reason I hated it was that I hated taking the bat out of the hands of one of your best hitters late in a tie game. But part of the reason I hated it was that, if you are going to play for just one run, you have to be confident that that one run will hold up, and I didn't have that level of confidence in the bullpen.
Neftali Feliz will be back on Friday, and that will help. Tommy Hunter will be returning from the disabled list soon, and his return could push Alexi Ogando to the bullpen, which would help solidify the relief corps. If Mark Lowe figures things out in AAA, he could come up and help. Tanner Scheppers, and possibly even Neil Ramirez, could be options later this summer.
But what the bullpen really needs is for Pedro Strop to harness his stuff and become a reliable 7th/8th inning option. It needs Cody Eppley to be Darren O'Day. It needs Arthur Rhodes and Darren Oliver to pitch like they've got something left in the tank.
It needs the guys in place who have the ability to perform to perform to their ability level.
In Jeff Wilson's game story, Ron Washington says that he is still confident in his bullpen.
Evan Grant has his post-game thoughts, which includes a mention of Alexi Ogando having blister issues again. One of the things that could result in Ogando heading back to the pen is a recurrence of blister problems, which he's been experiencing late in his starting stints.
T.R. Sullivan's game story describes Ogando's finger as "caked with blood" after he was pulled because of the blister issue.
Richard Durrett has his post-game reactions.
Wilson says the Rangers need one big hit to get the offense back on track.
Gil Lebreton says that the Rangers are going to have to win with the guys they have in place.
The S-T's notes has updates on Josh Hamilton, Scott Feldman, Tommy Hunter, and Neftali Feliz.
Sullivan's notes discuss Nelson Cruz being lifted with a quad issue yesterday, Elvis Andrus getting a day off, and Michael Young's performance with runners in scoring position.
186 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
The only slightly amusing thing about that game
is that when I got up this morning #bullpenisamess was still trending in DFW.
"I’ve been a Rangers fan all my life and I can tell you there’s been plenty of fucking crying in baseball…" - WhipSmart, 6.3.08
Gordon gave him shit about that this morning
Heh.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
josh hamilton swinging a bat today.
we need him back in the worst way.
Rangers finish 85-77, four games behind the A's. Red Sox beat the Braves in the World Series.
Let’s hope I’m wrong.
by Josey Wales on Apr 1, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd rather not rush him
I say give him all the time he needs until he is absolutely 100%. If you rush him and he gets injured again, we are in deep trouble.
apparently he is a solid week ahead of schedule right now.
Rangers finish 85-77, four games behind the A's. Red Sox beat the Braves in the World Series.
Let’s hope I’m wrong.
by Josey Wales on Apr 1, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
by Mr. Abe Froman on May 4, 2011 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Any news on Nellie?
Me: But if we move to some state where our views are in the majority, I won't have anything to rant against all day long! What will fuel my rage??
Girlfriend: Well...you'll still have the Yankees.
from Rotoworld:
Nelson Cruz (quad) is hopeful that he won’t have to miss significant time.
Cruz left Tuesday’s game after six innings due to quad tightness, but was optimistic about his status following the game. “I feel good right now,” said Cruz. “We’ll wait until tomorrow and see. Hopefully, it should be just one day.” He’s expected to be reevaluated on Wednesday
Ogando's Blister
is especially disappointing given how well he’s performed so far. It doesn’t seem like it’s hurt him so far, but maybe moving back to the pen can help limit his innings and help him to heal.
Of course how Hunter performs in the roto is the question, since Alexi’s been so effective this year.
I don't think how Hunter performs is that big a question
We can probably be fairly confident in what to expect from him.
Its probably not going to be as good as what Ogando has given us but the drop off won’t be too substantial and having Ogando back in the pen should help hold onto those 1 run leads late
I'd much rather pull Harrison from the rotation than Ogando
Once Feliz gets back the pen will settle down some.
This sounds like an old wives tale, but...
IF, after the blister seals up, he would rub turpentine into the area everyday. After a week or so, the skin will toughen. It may not prevent, but would combat further trouble.
or he could urinate on his hands every day
by sam in so cal on May 4, 2011 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions
stuff his hand in a bag of rice
I heard that works.
Why don't you have a nice big cup of shut the fuck up? - Lisa W 3/4/2011
So I guess today we find out what roster move occured to open room for Martin since he has signed his contract
Im guessing Webb to the 60 day DL
My dad's adamant faith in Brandon Webb being the savior of the 2011 Rangers
is almost tragic.
Me: But if we move to some state where our views are in the majority, I won't have anything to rant against all day long! What will fuel my rage??
Girlfriend: Well...you'll still have the Yankees.
by WildcatPhoenix on May 4, 2011 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
Your dad had a lot of company from LSB on that one.
I never bought in.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
No
There weren’t a lot of people on LSB who were adamant in their faith that Webb would be the savior of the 2011 Rangers.
by Adam J. Morris on May 4, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Perhaps "savior" is too strong a word but a lot of people in LSB
thought Webb was going to help the Rangers in 2011.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
That's a lot of crawfishing there, Wales.
And way to be ultra vague with “thought Webb was going to help the Rangers.”
No....
the vast majority of people looked at him like Rich Harden last year….if we get something, he’s a great sigining. If not….well, bye.
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
by GhostofSteveFoucault on May 4, 2011 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Right
That sounds like what most of us were saying. I also remember most people picking under on setting the line at over/under 60 IP.
There seemed to be an overabundance of desire to sign Webb along with an overabundance of praise towards JD when
he was actually signed.
Rag on Mitch Williams all you want (because he opens the door to it) but he was correct about Brandon Webb back in December.
Quite simply, the reason he was able to throw that bastard of a sinker and get that much movement was the same reason he hurt himself.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Yeah...I think we were all excited about the prospect of signing him but
that was tempered by the fact that he had not pitched in a couple of years. I recall everyone being very level-headed about the signing…no one expected him win the CY award again…
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
by GhostofSteveFoucault on May 4, 2011 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
It was a good signing
low risk in terms of commitment, good reward if he gets healthy. I don’t see how anyone with a brain could have a problem with the Webb signing. No one here was under any illusions that he was to be counted on for a lot, but it was right to think that if he got healthy he’d be a good addition to the pitching staff.
Stop trying to pretend, once again, that you were the lone voice of reason.
Nelson Cruz - 2011 MVP
A complete waste of money is not a good signing.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Every single player carries risks
you try to minimize those risks by offering less years and dollars. It was a good signing. It’s the same process that netted Colby Lewis.
Nelson Cruz - 2011 MVP
It's not the same process.
Cobra Lewis didn’t have health issues. He was coming off two very successful seasons in Japan. That was a great signing, possibly JD’s best move since becoming GM.
Webb had been hurt for 2 seasons yet somehow passed a physical and conned the Rangers into giving him $ 3 million.
The entire BWebb process was a completely failed signing.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
That's still yet to be proven.
You speak in absolutes in things that are not guaranteed.
That makes you incorrect even though you may have a high probability of being correct.
It also makes you appear to be close minded and bull headed.
"I hope the image of my erect penis sears into your brain." by ab03 on Mar 24, 2011 9:13 PM CDT
On the issue of BWebb making any meaningful contributions
to the Texas Rangers, I am close minded.
I’m wide open to the ideas that Holland & Harrison can become good major league starters or that Mitch Moreland could surpass my expectations this year.
But Brandon Webb, meh. It was a waste of $$$$.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I have it
you aren’t Newie. You are Rob Dibble.
Probably think that quality starts are a stupid stat, too.
Why don't you have a nice big cup of shut the fuck up? - Lisa W 3/4/2011
It is the same process
of valuing risk/reward. Lewis was very successful in Japan but it was unknown how his success would translate. The Rangers were willing to take a bit bigger risk than other teams on him and it has paid off. If Lewis had sucked it STILL would have been a good signing.
Any contract that is limited in years/dollars with the potential for high reward is a good signing. There are always risks. The front office, along with most here, understood there was a decent chance Webb never contributes. If they ran the team based purely on avoiding risk as you seem to suggest, they would miss a lot of opportunities. They might not have taken on Hamilton, for example.
Nelson Cruz - 2011 MVP
Interesting
I wonder if one of the more knowledgeable baseball folks on here can tell us how exactly the 60 day Dl would work for a guy like Wilmer Font. Could we backdate it all the way to the beginning of the season and save his option for this year or has it already burned? I don’t know why we would burn a option on a guy like him just to save a year of service time given his injury and his history.
It's already been burned
He is on the MLB 60 day DL, as he was already added to the 40 man roster.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
I don't think hes on any DL
Not according to the Rangers website.
He was optioned to the minor leagues at the end of March. Being on the 60 day Dl would actually save his option since he technically wouldn’t be optioned to the minor leagues
Winner
From Jamey Newberg
#Rangers designate RHP Ramon Aguero for assignment to clear roster spot for CF #Leonys Martin.
He was just a flyer anyway
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Let me tell you something my friend. Strop is a dangerous thing. Strop can drive a man insane.
/Red – had no idea he was a Rangers fan
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
by GhostofSteveFoucault on May 4, 2011 10:33 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Oh I'm slapping some rec all over this
Me: But if we move to some state where our views are in the majority, I won't have anything to rant against all day long! What will fuel my rage??
Girlfriend: Well...you'll still have the Yankees.
by WildcatPhoenix on May 4, 2011 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Listened to Frisco game for a bit last night
I had never heard that Ogando got an acrylic nail put on at Stonebriar Mall before every start last year. Seems that he had the blister problem then too, but it was because he had worn down his pointer finger nail. One of his team mates essentially walked him across the street and had this done for him…and he did it before every start the rest of the season.
Then Ogando said this to Durrett last night:
"Maybe I need to get a new nail," Ogando said through a translator.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
He only had 3 "starts" in Frisco last year
And none of them went more than 3 innings I believe. They were more like emergency starts from a reliever.
He had a fake nail put on every week per the pbp guy
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
They were joking about a $7/week expense report for 1 acrylic nail being turned in to the Rangers
lol
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
maybe he can get one of those little jewels put on his pitching finger like they do
:)
Why don't you have a nice big cup of shut the fuck up? - Lisa W 3/4/2011
Posted this in another thread, but
The Rangers bullpen is 2-6, has an ERA/FIP/xFIP of 4.03/4.74/4.48, and a cumulative WAR of -.3. They are also bottom third in K/9, BB/9, GB% and HR/FB ratio.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
x
espn_durrett Richard Durrett
#Rangers will make Leonys Martin deal official today. It’s a 5-year deal worth $15.5 mil, includes $5 mil signing bonus.
damn.
Rangers finish 85-77, four games behind the A's. Red Sox beat the Braves in the World Series.
Let’s hope I’m wrong.
by Josey Wales on Apr 1, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
by Mr. Abe Froman on May 4, 2011 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Anyone know how this works?
Obviously he’ll be in the minor league system. Is he then a minor league guy making $2m a year? If it takes him 3 years to get up do we only have him for 2 more years?
After this contract runs its length he falls under the normla team control guidelines
For instance if after these 5 years he is still pre-arbitration then we can resign him for the ML minimum, although if he is less than a Super 2 after 5 years we may have already cut ties with him.
If hes a arbitration eligible player then he would go through that process
Ranger bullpen in the last 14 days
Dave Bush, ladies and Gentleman
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
I think the best part is the 60% GB rate
Since supposedly he is such a fly ball pitcher and thats why he would get killed at TBiA and I was a moran for advocating him in the rotation
Its more so.
on the road this year:
2 games, one in Detroit, one in Oakland: 14 ground balls, 9 fly balls, 4 line drives.
at home:
2 games, (LAA and TOR): 7 ground balls, 9 fly balls, 3 line drives.
one earned and one unearned run in each place.
Why don't you have a nice big cup of shut the fuck up? - Lisa W 3/4/2011
x
his return could push Alexi Ogando to the bullpen
Why would you move Ogando back to the BP rather than Harrison or, as was suggested in the OT thread, send Harrison to the minors to work on his stuff?
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
by GhostofSteveFoucault on May 4, 2011 10:45 AM CDT reply actions
Because if you are getting back a known quantity like Hunter
Replacing Ogando with him and moving Ogando back to the pen could help the team more than replacing Harrison with Hunter and still not having Ogando in the pen.
i'm totally with you on this bigsteve
I am coming for you, Mark Lowe.
You’d better run, because there will be more with me.
I WILL DESTROY YOU MARK LOWE. ---LSJ 3/24
It depends on what you think you are getting with Harrison
If you don’t think Harrison is good enough to start in the majors, then yeah, send him down.
by Adam J. Morris on May 4, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
I think they give him one more start....if he squares things away, great...move Ogando.
But I would have Harrison on an extremely short leash and would move him to the BP in a heartbeat with Ogando going back into the rotation.
Feliz returning is going to stabilize things at the end….let Rhodes/Oliver handle 8th inning duties and Harrison can take over the 7th inning duties.
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
by GhostofSteveFoucault on May 4, 2011 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah...but Bush has not been bad as the long man...
What about moving Bush to the 7th inning and Harrison as the long man?
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
by GhostofSteveFoucault on May 4, 2011 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
There is really no need for Harry in the bullpen
what with Bush doing well as the long man and Rhodes and Oliver as the lefty setup guys.
If Harry is taken out of the roto, he should go to AAA.
Go Rice Owls!
Matt Harrison - 2011 Rangers #3 Starter!
Dave Bush appears to be getting lucky.
At least over the last two weeks. Low BABIP, high GB rate, super high LOB%.
yeah... he's been good enough but who really cares?
the point of Bush is that he can go out there and eat up a bunch of innings in a game the Rangers aren’t going to win anyway.
With Harrison, he has shown that if things are going right he can contribute to the club. Now, the question is how to get things right. Being a long-man getting inconsistent innings in the bullpen isn’t going to solve his problems.
Go Rice Owls!
Matt Harrison - 2011 Rangers #3 Starter!
Well over the course of a season...
I’d rather have Harry as the long man than Dave Freaking Bush.
I don’t care how many tips he got from Roy Halliday; Bush sucks.
Harrison deserves some more rope plus Ogando is more likely
to solidify the 8th inning as a bridge to Feliz.
Harrison had two bad starts after four good ones.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
But those two starts.....
Those were really….really….really bad starts.
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
by GhostofSteveFoucault on May 4, 2011 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
so?
One reason cumulative stats are deceptive is that they overestimate bad outings. Once a start is bad and the team isn’t going to win, it really doesn’t matter that much how bad it gets. If a pitcher gives you 4 innings and gives up 5 runs, your odds of winning are only something like 10% anyway. So 2 innings and 8 runs, while worse, doesn’t decrease the Rangers win totals by that much. (and before you bring up bullpen… this is why you have guys like Bush and Tomko on the team already…)
Now, I don’t know if Harry’s 2 bad starts are a trend or just part of the overall package with him. But if he can give the Rangers a great chance to win in only 4 out of 6 starts, the other 2 out of 3 I don’t really care if he gives up 20 runs. Now, if something happened (he got injured, he’s in a bad mental place) and those odds aren’t maintained, then send him to RR soon.
Go Rice Owls!
Matt Harrison - 2011 Rangers #3 Starter!
if he has another sub 3 inning shellacking
you have to pull the plug. Because something is wrong in that case – guys don’t go three starts in a row like that unless they’re injured or really mentally screwed up.
Go Rice Owls!
Matt Harrison - 2011 Rangers #3 Starter!
Yankees...
"I hope the image of my erect penis sears into your brain." by ab03 on Mar 24, 2011 9:13 PM CDT
He pitched well against the Yankees the first time
Harry has the stuff to give the Rangers a chance to win every time out. He just has gotten out of his game in the past two starts; it is hard to say why since he wasn’t out there long, but it seems like, looking at the charts, he has gotten away from his game plan of pounding batters low, low, low.
Also, he’s just been terrible against lefties, particularly in these last two starts.
Go Rice Owls!
Matt Harrison - 2011 Rangers #3 Starter!
Who says his next are going to be like that going forward?
Yeah, if his next two starts are as bad as his last two, its probably time to send him down. As of right now, we do not have any better options.
Yeah....like I said below to your point about Hunter...
Let the Harrison thing play out….it’s nice having Ogando as an option for the rotation if the Harrison slide continues.
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
by GhostofSteveFoucault on May 4, 2011 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
In 2010, CJ had 6 good starts out of 7 to start the season.
He then STBF in his next 4 starts (Game Scores between 25-40).
That meant CJ had 6 good starts in 11 outings to start the season. Aren’t you glad the team didn’t panic with CJ?
As long as he’s healthy, Harrison deserves at least 3 more starts before a reassessment.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
You are probably right on this one.
If you look at percentage of good starts, mediocre starts, and bad starts, a very good pitcher goes 2-1-1. But those numbers start running in streaks over a short time period. So it is probably not wise to panic, and may be advisable to discard last year’s struggles as a starter. I’m not feeling like an optomist, but I’m almost soundling like one.
Those Harrison starts aren't even bad.
They are epic.
Harrison has simply never been a good major league starter for any significant period of time.
How long was Cliff Lee not a good starter...
before the light went on? It happens with pitchers. Either they get better or they don’t, but you need to give them a chance to get better. If he has good stuff, then it becomes a matter of managing the pitches. Maturity is what is needed, well learning how to pitch. The Rangers saw him throw well in Spring Training and early on this season, and now he has had some bad outings. But you don’t throw away those successful outings for a couple of bad outings.
Nobody.
It was a freak occurrence. That type of shit just doesn’t happen and it’s not going to happen to Matt Motherfucking Harrison.
Note, I still have irrational hatred of Harry. Even though it’s becoming more rational.
Its going to happen to Matt Harrison
Because he’s got the stuff to make it happen.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
We all have hatred of somebody that pitches.
I just freaked out when I saw Oliver pitching last year for the Rangers. I had visions of him blowing leads when he was previously with the Rangers. And he ended up having a good year. Sometimes, things change.
I was furious when the Rangers signed Oliver
Since I still have hatred of him going back to the ’90s.
Go Rice Owls!
Matt Harrison - 2011 Rangers #3 Starter!
I don't think that is a fair question to ask.
Whether or not we think it will happen is pointless. The more important question: do we think it could happen?
I think the answer is yes. The fail rate is certain to be high; I think we can all agree to that.
However, if we want to consider whether or not Matt Harrison could have the light come on, I don’t think we should be comparing him to Cliff Lee directly as a pitcher. I think we should be asking if he has the to tools and if he has room to mature as a pitcher when considering age and experience.
Lastly, we have to consider what the cost is to allowing him to try and figure it out. Do we have pitchers right now that can step in with a better chance of success? Is he limiting someone else’s development?
Meh, I disagree.
The chance of Matt Harrison becoming Cliff Lee is so small that saying “Yes, it could happen,” seems rather pointless to me.
It isn't whether or not Matt Harrison can become Cliff Lee
It is whether or not Matt Harrison can have a late development like Cliff Lee. Like I said, comparing them directly as pitchers doesn’t make sense. What we are comparing is their maturity curve.
Perhaps while you are doing that
you can also add in the odds of Elvis becoming ARod and Julio becoming Willie Mays.
"I wanted to go out there and punch Julio" - Ron Washington
well, to be fair
the odds Cliff Lee became Cliff Lee were very low too.
Not that I think Matt Harrison will ever become Cliff Lee. But I do think there is a reasonable chance that he could have a Ted Lilly type career, with a small, but decent chance that he could be better.
Increasingly though, the Matt Harrison fan in me is beginning to suspect that he needs to be in a different organization for that to happen.
Go Rice Owls!
Matt Harrison - 2011 Rangers #3 Starter!
I just don't see
the organization being the problem. I have no idea if it is his frequent injuries, or the anatomy between the ears, which is my suspicion.
He definitely has flashed some talent at times.
"I wanted to go out there and punch Julio" - Ron Washington
Who knows...
Again, the Matt Harrison fan in me would love to see what someone like Dave Duncan could do with him. Or if he had a catcher who didn’t admit that he’s doing a horrible job at calling games.
Go Rice Owls!
Matt Harrison - 2011 Rangers #3 Starter!
Clearly I'm not doing a good job of explaining my point.
I’m not asking whether or not Matt Harrison can become Cliff Lee. They aren’t similar pitchers. Likewise Elvis and A-rod aren’t similar players.
I’m just asking is it possible for Matt Harrison to mature to his potential later in his career like Cliff Lee did.
Every player
has that potential. There is always a chance Chris Davis learns to read pitches and unleash his massive power. There is always a chance that a pitcher figures it out when they are 30 like Moyer did.
However, the longer you go in the ML without showing it, the less likely it looks. Guys like Moyer and Lee were horrendous longshots. So the odd of anyone emulating them is also a horrendous longshot.
"I wanted to go out there and punch Julio" - Ron Washington
And I agree with you here.
And I think FP hit the nail on the head below.
b) how much improvement will that result in?
That is the big question. Maybe I’m higher than him than most but I think his upside is a lot higher than the rest of our current options.
I think the Rangers organization agrees with you
Clearly they view Harry as the ultimate high risk / high reward guy. Obviously they do, otherwise they wouldn’t year after year run him out there with the cost that they’ve eaten in doing so. If they thought Harry’s ceiling was a #4, they wouldn’t be trying so hard.
He’s like the anti-Tommy Hunter in that respect.
Go Rice Owls!
Matt Harrison - 2011 Rangers #3 Starter!
Then I think the real question is twofold:
a) will Matt Harrison have a late, sudden development, and
b) how much improvement will that result in?
I think the answers are “maybe, but we’ve probably already seen it” and “very little.”
eh
I think with Harrison it is far simpler. We know that he has the stuff, it isn’t a question of ‘development’. He doesn’t need to learn a new pitch, or learn to fix his release point. He needs to learn how to approach hitters intelligently as opposed to just throwing stuff out there.
Go Rice Owls!
Matt Harrison - 2011 Rangers #3 Starter!
Disagree!
I’ve already stated the reasons, and I’m not a Matt Harrision fan like some are.
1) He has shown success in Spring Training and up through his last two starts. Why was that? Most have said it was a different approach to pitching. OK, in essence he has started managing the pitches and the approach to pitching better than he had before.
At one point or another, the light either goes on or the pitcher fails. Most teams will not shut a starter down after two bad starts, especially after having five of six good starts including Spring Training.
If he continues failing, say two more bad starts, Hunter probably will be ready and you can take him out. But my guess is that it would be much better for the Rangers for him to succeed, and it may be worth giving him those two more starts and seeing how he does.
My faith in CJ (although I was skeptical about him being an effective starter)
was much higher than my faith in Harrison….CJ had at least proven himself in other roles to be effective. Harrison has not done that….
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
by GhostofSteveFoucault on May 4, 2011 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
two more bad starts than Ogando has had.
Why don't you have a nice big cup of shut the fuck up? - Lisa W 3/4/2011
Ogando has been a revelation
i don’t see how hunter’s innings eating mediocrity would cause you to mess with what Ogando is doing right now.
For as much as I argued in ST that starters are obviously more important than the bullpen,
these last several games are making me wonder if Ogando may not best help this team now pitching 6, 7, and 8 if needed. I just don’t want to move him in and out of the roto all season if/when someone else gets hurt or is put on the I-need-some-time-to-think DL (Colby?)
I'm not convinced...
…that Ogando is going to be significantly better, over the rest of 2011, than Hunter would be in the rotation.
I do think Ogando would be significantly better in a setup role in 2011 than Hunter would be.
by Adam J. Morris on May 4, 2011 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions
have you checked his splits this year?
the red flag against lefties from last year has vanished. the change up looks promising.
He's also got a sub-.200 BABIP
And a LOB% above 90%. And his GB/FB/LD splits don’t suggest that his BABIP should deviate from normal.
You’ve also got the issue of how well he’ll hold up over the course of the season, given how few innings he’s pitched historically.
by Adam J. Morris on May 4, 2011 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Splits?
Come on, that is a horribly small sample to make the leap you’re making.
Nelson Cruz - 2011 MVP
The leap
is using a handful of plate appearances against lefties as any sort of evidence he should remain in the rotation. The change-up developing is a sensible argument, but I wouldn’t cite any stats against lefties without a LOT more PAs.
And saying Ogando has been a revelation seems a stretch, too. His LOB rate and BaBIP are unsustainable. If he regresses to his peripherals he’s not better than what Hunter promised going forward. Ogando has been a wonderful starter for a month or so, and I’m very impressed with his moxie. But going forward I’d like that moxie back in the setup role with Hunter taking his spot in the back of the rotation.
Nelson Cruz - 2011 MVP
the extreme splits from 2010
were brought up a few times by the stats community as a red flag. and i think it was a legitimate concern because he is a fastball/slider bullpen guy and that doesn’t always work out well against lefties. but everything about ogando involves small sample sizes. i’d very much like to see where he goes as he incorporates the change up more and more.
I think Ogando
could develop into a good starter, but I still worry about his delivery and his stuff long term. He’s got balls of steel, which both makes me want to see how he’d do in the rotation if he can get that change up going and makes me wonder if he has what it takes to be the closer.
Nelson Cruz - 2011 MVP
for the same reason that Feliz to the bullpen was a reasonable move a month ago.
Let’s just assume Harry and Ogando are equivalent risks as starters. Well, if you take Harry out, then he goes to AAA and you just gain by the Hunter – Harry difference. Whereas if you take Ogando out, your bullpen suddenly improves quite a bit.
Go Rice Owls!
Matt Harrison - 2011 Rangers #3 Starter!
I can see that....good point.
Plus, in the event that Harrison does not improve, you always have the option of moving Ogando back into the rotation….
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
by GhostofSteveFoucault on May 4, 2011 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
he has a "weak back"...
I still don’t get that injury. Is it a disk, is it back spasms, ?
WTF?!?!
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
You are obsessed by that phrase
I’ve seen it termed as back issues, back injury, back soreness, stiffness, etc. It sounds to me like something muscular, spasms or something. I fell on wet pavement 20 years ago and I’m still having to stretch carefully every single day even though there is nothing structurally wrong with my back. I think my piano playing and conducting postures contribute to that, but that’s when it started. Back issues suck.
Nelson Cruz - 2011 MVP
Bullpen
Maybe our bullpen seems to suck because our late-inning offense seems to suck (does it)? Someone look that up for me please. Thanks.
OPS By Inning
1st: .600
2nd: .569
3rd: .928
4th: .865
5th: .928
6th: .807
7th: .754
8th: .749
9th: .804
damn.
Rangers finish 85-77, four games behind the A's. Red Sox beat the Braves in the World Series.
Let’s hope I’m wrong.
by Josey Wales on Apr 1, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
by Mr. Abe Froman on May 4, 2011 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
More
Runs/Game:
Innings 1-3: 1.77 (53 total)
Innings 4-6: 1.93 (58 total)
Innings 7-9: 1.27 (38 total)
The innings 7-9 might be skewed with the Rangers not always batting in the 9th inning.
Plate Appearances/Run
Innings 1-3: 7.08
Innings 4-6: 6.72
Innings 7-9: 8.97
Makes sense
I would imagine every team in baseball scores more runs/hits better in the 4-6 innings and less in the later innings.
might be the product
of teams facing fading starters and middle relievers instead of fresh starters and late innings specialists.
Nelson Cruz - 2011 MVP
How many lossess can be connected to the bullpen either losing a lead,
or surrendering runs in a tie game?
The last two!
I believe two games in Detroit.
Ogando’s start against the Yankees the team tied it back up.
In addition, the Rangers nearly lost a game where a comfortable lead become a one one victory.
Still, it’s the last two games that sting! I don’t like bullpen by committee, and arguably Ogando has been the most effective starter this year. The blister, well considering CJ had blisters last year, is this a former reliever’s affiction?
Just checking out the Round Rock pitching stats
and I’m wondering why the hell Japanese O’day isn’t up in the majors yet…
9 Games, 1-0 W/L , 1.29 ERA, 0.93 WHIP, 2 BB, 17K, 14IP
Also Mark Lowe has had 4 straight scoreless outings, with the last getting 4K’s in 2IP while giving up only 1 hit.
I'd be careful what you wish for with Mark Lowe
He has good enough stuff to hide a lot of his problems in AAA that are totally exposed in the show. He could end up being a great pitcher for us, but he was just sent down a few weeks ago…
He had a few bad outings when he first went down
but lit looks like he might have figured something out. If he keeps on like that for another week, I bring him back up.
Who do you send down?
Ryan Tucker has to be up for at least 10 days, right? He was called up April 27th.
No
You can send a player back down immediately after calling him up.
You have to wait 10 days after he’s sent down to recall him
by Adam J. Morris on May 4, 2011 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
He can be sent down whenever,
I think the 10 days is how long he can’t be called up again for…
I don't think Tucker has options left
So he’d just get outrighted and he could take his release
Not necessarily terrible if he did but we can’t simply shuttle him up and down all year
mark lowe is the pitching equivalent of chris davis.
take what he does in AAA with a huge grain of salt.
Rangers finish 85-77, four games behind the A's. Red Sox beat the Braves in the World Series.
Let’s hope I’m wrong.
by Josey Wales on Apr 1, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
by Mr. Abe Froman on May 4, 2011 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't think that's a very good comparison
Lowe is still a guy that’s coming back from injury,and just needs innings to get back to good.
Agreed! He's working on his stuff, and the Rangers will have personel evaluating.
They can look at a pattern to see his fastball locations, breaking ball location, the kind of movement his stuff has. They’ll have an idea of whether he is improving and can pitch in the big leagues. But also, is he outperforming Tx bullpen pitchers with his current stuff in RR?
I think he is working on his FB grip, to induce more movement
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Isn't Feldman closer to being ready than Hunter anyway?
If Harrison has another bad outing, would you consider putting Feldman in his spot?
not a chance in hell
Neither are that close to being back. They both have at least 2-3 weeks of rehab starts to make.
Hunter is coming off of a strained muscle.
Feldman is coming off of micro-fracture surgery. This is a much tougher injury to recover from and you want some real work, the spring training he hasn’t had this year, to get him ready to pitch for the Rangers. Hunter had a spring training, and pooped out with a pulled muscle, but has been throwing on the side to a certain extent.
No
Hunter is pitching a rehab game with Frisco today. Feldman hasn’t gone out on a rehab assignment yet.
by Adam J. Morris on May 4, 2011 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah I found the article, it was in extended Spring Training, but it sounds like he's maybe a start behind Hunter
Rangers right-hander Scott Feldman pitched four scoreless innings in an extended spring training game against the Mariners on Tuesday in Arizona. Feldman allowed two hits, struck out four and threw 54 pitches.
Feldman could be getting close to pitching for a Minor League team on medical rehabilitation assignment. He has been sidelined since undergoing surgery on his right knee in November.
Tommy Hunter (strained right groin muscle) is scheduled to begin his rehab assignment on Wednesday by pitching three to four innings for Double-A Frisco. Neftali Feliz (right shoulder inflammation) is expected to start that game.
Nice block quote...
but who’s the source. Feldman is going to need some serious work, perhaps almost a month of pitching in either extended Spring Training or in the minor leagues. Maybe Professor Parks has the answer, or somebody close to the Rangers’ front office.
Ideally Harrison would rebound to where he was earlier this season.
Ideally Hunter would be able to go into the rotation and be an innings eater, and pick up some wins for the team. Ideally Ogando would be able to go back to the bullpen and set up for Feliz. Ideally, Feldman or Webb would be able to be in the starting rotation by June 1 if needed.
How often does “ideally” work out? But some of those cases might work out. The bullpen is a mess right now. The rotation has been struggling a little. The defense has been sloppy. Etc…that’s the way it seems after two late inning losses in a row!
Team's on pace
for a 86 win season, which is I suppose what you would expect from a better than average, but not league leading offense, and average bullpen, and an average rotation
"I wanted to go out there and punch Julio" - Ron Washington
This team makes me tired, they look too much like the rangers of old
think i will take a couple of games off from watching them, maybe it will change their mojo if i don’t watch them, the jinx factor is powerful in me….lol
Quote from Yankees GM about the Texas Rangers Beating them in the 2010 ALCS "They manhandled us," Cashman said. "It was like a steamroller. We couldn't stop them."
in all fairness
this team is a little bit hurt right now
i mean, we’re a starter low, a closer low, and one of our best hitters low. tough to put together winning streaks when that happens
the concern should be about our depth. we are only ONE month into the season. and if we’re going to contend for this thing, then you can rest assured we’ll have to get better reinforcements
by oc on May 4, 2011 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep
We’re missing the league ROY and MVP. Not too surprising we’re leaking a little oil right now.
by Thought_Experiment on May 4, 2011 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
3-5 in one run games already
Why don't you have a nice big cup of shut the fuck up? - Lisa W 3/4/2011
Haha you have to be joking right?
The bullpen is not a weakness. What team are you watching?? The pen has cost us at least 6 games so far this year. Just because the reliever perform well in garbage time doesn’t mean anything. And yes, Pedro Strop is fucking awful and he is not a major league pitcher.
strop is really young and still could develop but you're right he shouldn't be getting any high leverages situations right now
its just that sometimes….who else are you going to go to? I still say Ogando back to the pen. He’s due for regression starting and we need a reliable guy in the 8th inning.
I am coming for you, Mark Lowe.
You’d better run, because there will be more with me.
I WILL DESTROY YOU MARK LOWE. ---LSJ 3/24
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Lone Star Ball
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Get a grip: Reds’ Todd Frazier loses bat, still connects for home run (Video)
- Eric Hosmer redefines the Baltimore chop with infield double (Video)
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
