Poll -- The Cliff Lee Trade
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 6, 2011 10:52 AM CDT
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Print352 days ago, the Texas Rangers traded Justin Smoak, Blake Beavan, Josh Lueke, and Matt Lawson for Cliff Lee and Mark Lowe.
Looking back almost a year later, knowing what we know now, my question is, was it worth it?
Cast your vote below?
123 comments
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Heh
Graham's Sports Crackers...they're tasty!
"Since mine's not actually attached to me, I would.
I can just take it off and wash it. Repeatedly. In boiling water. And bleach." by Lisa W on Jun 26, 2011 4:30 PM CDT..."I'm kidding. I don't own a strap-on." by Lisa W on Jun 26, 2011 4:32 PM CDT
by DFWTrojanTuba on Jul 6, 2011 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions
84-3 at this moment.
And I think I know at least one of the 3 “no” votes.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
94-5 currently
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 6, 2011 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions
I was referring to percentage.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 6, 2011 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh, sorry...
I was just trying to update the standings. Not correct you. Apologies.
"We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames." - Ron Washington 04/03/11
by erudy on Jul 6, 2011 11:52 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
haha....you might think so w/ all the negative comments when it happened
guess the world series won everyone over on this deal.
Young has sucked the last two weeks. --JW 6/16/2011
I remember being very apprehensive when it happened.
But was still ecstatic to get an ace caliber pitcher. We tend to overlook how valuable of an asset Lowe is becoming. Would still love to have Smoak, or at least love to have his BB%.
if we would have lost to Tampa then it was a bust
but in the playoffs he was money
Young has sucked the last two weeks. --JW 6/16/2011
well, I still think the logic of the trade was flawed
and that, without knowing what I know (specifically – that the Tampa series was as close as it was), I would not have made it.
Basically the Rangers were gambling Justin Smoak that a playoff series would be incredibly close and come down to having Cliff Lee. People acted like that was a sure thing – at most it was a 10% chance or so. Well… turned out that they were right.
That said, it was close, and Cliff Lee was the difference against Tampa. Too bad he sucked against the Giants.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
I don't disagree,
but do you think the Rangers viewed Smoak differently with Davis and Moreland behind him?
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 6, 2011 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions
well, at the time of the trade
Moreland wasn’t quite Moreland now, and Davis was really at the lowest of his value. Now, someone in the F.O. really likes Moreland, and that person is really smart. But I’m not going to give them too much credit for knowing Moreland would outperform Smoak at the time of that trade.
Really, at the time of the deal, no one was really thinking that the Rangers were trading from a position of strength at first base.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
I think that, at the very least, the Rangers thought more of Moreland
than the prospect mavens here. Outperforming Smoak is another matter, but I don’t think the Rangers are surprised that they have a player putting up better than 1.0 WAR in Moreland.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 6, 2011 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah, like I said - someone in the org saw something in him and is my favorite anonymous hero
And it may well have swayed them to being willing to trade Smoak; who after all has his own warts too. The org probably realized that Smoak and Moreland were a lot closer than common perception; and common perception is what drives trade value…
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Perhaps,
though I still think Smoak ends up being the better player in the long run.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 6, 2011 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
I think so too
but if you phrase it like that (and I don’t know if the Rangers were thinking it), then I can see the argument of : (Playoff value of Lee) > (Smoak – Moreland)
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
D'accord.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 6, 2011 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Disagree somewhat
Now, someone in the F.O. really likes Moreland, and that person is really smart.
Actually, it wasn’t just one person, it was 5 in the FO who said Moreland would be the 2012 1b, IIRC.
"Don't argue with an idiot (JW); people watching may not be able to tell
the difference."
Adam J Morris, halfassedly pretending to be interested in my thoughts, goals, and overall self esteem since late 2005.
this post is missing a footnote.
You forgot to cite your ass on the 10% figure.
by blakethegr8 on Jul 6, 2011 11:51 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
don't make me formally derive it
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Moreland gets a lot of credit here
If we had a Ben Broussard type player at 1B right now I’d probably feel differently. Huge thanks to Moreland.
Just think
if we had both Moreland and Davis raking in AAA this year with Smoak in the bigs.
Definitely worth it…flags fly forever and all that stuff
by fightingengineer on Jul 6, 2011 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Does anyone take Lowe into consideration
when judging this trade?
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jul 6, 2011 11:05 AM CDT reply actions
You should
Considering the packages people want to toss for a RP this year, I’d have to think Lowe was at least worth Beavan or Leukue considering how big of a role he has on this team now.
Cuban Julio is not better than tiny Cliff
-venturafearsnolan
and again and again and again...
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
This poll gives me more faith in the LSB community
Cuban Julio is not better than tiny Cliff
-venturafearsnolan
by Gdawg on Jul 6, 2011 11:13 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Who are the 8 that voted no.
Do you think the Rangers would have made the WS without Lee?
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
i think it's pretty clear
we don’t even get by the first round without Lee.
Damn, i so wished we would have played Philly. ugh.
I'm right there with you...I don't think they beat TB if Lee is not on the mound....
The trade was worth it….the old saying is “you have to give up something to get something”…Smoak and Beavan for Lee and a trip to the WS? Yeah, I’d do that again…..in a heartbeat.
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jul 6, 2011 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
I agreee
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
There has also been another guy who has been pitching himself into an 8th inning role lately.
That came over in that trade as well.
Oh, definitely...but at the time, Lowe was hurt so we didn't know
what to expect out of him.
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jul 6, 2011 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
via Dave's FG chat
Comment From Brian
Dave, sorry I can’t make it down to Long Beach this week. What do are your thoughts on the Rangers’ farm system with the LA signings, a high signability draft class and the emergence of guys like Ramirez and Erlin?
Dave Cameron:
The Rangers are doing it the right way. They’re a very good organization who is now flush with cash.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
Well yeah.
That’s pretty much the only answer to that question.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
Sometimes snarkiness creeps in regarding the Rangers from the creators of #6org.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 6, 2011 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions
It's gotta be scary as fuck for everyone else.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
Eh, maybe in the division.
Still, Seattle looks like they are headed in the right direction and I’m not sure how much longer we can count on La Incompetence.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 6, 2011 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
They JUST made that Vernon trade
which wasn’t an “oops” trade, it was a “I don’t understand how franchises in baseball work” trade
x
12:18
Comment From #1 Brew Crew fan
what can the brewers got for yuniesky betancourt?
12:19
Dave Cameron:
Hemorrhoids?
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 6, 2011 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions
How the fuck could you vote no?
Put up a new poll. Blow jobs…do they feel good?
Salma Hayek is not hot.
by AndrusImpersonator on Jul 6, 2011 11:35 AM CDT reply actions
yes
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
Was it from a college graduate?
So...
You’re the anti-Adam? by Brandon C. on Jun 16, 2011 3:46 PM CDT in response to Josey
by LBBRangerFan on Jul 6, 2011 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
no it was during college though
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
lets say I had some that weren't as good as others.
Same as Cliff Lee…even if he pitches bad its still a Cliff Lee
Salma Hayek is not hot.
by AndrusImpersonator on Jul 6, 2011 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, several.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
New poll idea
You’d probably also assume people wouldn’t post images of dinosaurs with human penises, but…
looking back, knowing what we know now, was the Mark Teixeira trade worth it for the Rangers?
It's baseball. You don't always get what you want, and you don't always want what you get. --Ed Coffin
We got 2 new faces of the franchise, 1 3-4 spot pitcher, and only two duds in the whole deal.
We won the fuck out of that trade.
"Now batting, number 32, Clutch Clutchilton."
I have an ongoing love affair with Tom Wandell, but it's not gay at all, trust me
The question was rhetorical
"Don't argue with an idiot (JW); people watching may not be able to tell
the difference."
Adam J Morris, halfassedly pretending to be interested in my thoughts, goals, and overall self esteem since late 2005.
Here's a question
If you could go back in time and be the Twins GM, and you still pick Joe Mauer in that draft or you could get Mark Teixeira, all his production during his Rangers years, and the Teixeira trade return from the Braves.
Would you go and undo it?
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Yes
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
My name:
The house that Mauer built. So I don’t know about that.
At least I get to see the Rangers when they play the Twins now.
couldn't they have just traded Mauer
and basically be at the same result as this?
No it would be a better result
If you can go back in time you draft Mauer and trade him around 2008/2009. Best possible value.
that's basically my point
maybe better. maybe slightly worse return. essentially the error wasn’t in drafting Mauer, it may have been in signing him to that extension.
Though in fairness, I don’t know that MIN didn’t shop Mauer and just didn’t get a Teix type package.
289-15 is the vote as of right now.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
Me and my 14 sock puppets.
I kid… I wouldn’t trade anything for that experience.
"Nolan's about to make me shit my pants." by LiamP on Jun 21, 2011 11:10 PM CDT
Interestingly enough...
I know Moreland has been slumping… wOBA down to .348 [still not bad… but not awesome].
Smoak’s down to a wOBA of .345.
"Nolan's about to make me shit my pants." by LiamP on Jun 21, 2011 11:10 PM CDT
Moreland gets more protection than Smoak does, though, right?
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 6, 2011 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
From Torrealba, Borbon, Chavez, Gentry?
"Nolan's about to make me shit my pants." by LiamP on Jun 21, 2011 11:10 PM CDT
v LHP?
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 6, 2011 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Ah I see.
I thought you meant lineup protection.
Smoak:
vs LHP: wOBA .368 in 97 PA
vs RHP: wOBA .335 in 230 PA
Moreland:
vs LHP: wOBA .235 in 72 PA
vs RHP: wOBA .388 in 205 PA
So a bit, but not a ton. Moreland has a severe split… but his production vs RHP is so much better that it offsets. And given the overall handedness of the league… it’s not a bad deal.
"Nolan's about to make me shit my pants." by LiamP on Jun 21, 2011 11:10 PM CDT
Interesting.
I wonder how much of that is from injury. It’s crazy to think that not only may Moreland grade out higher in WAR this year than Smoak, but that his positional versatility could truly make him the better fit even beyond WAR.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 6, 2011 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Can this be turned into a #6 conversation?
The real question should be: “Was Jack Z smart for taking the Texas deal or the Yankees deal”
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Do we know what else was proposed in the Yankee deal outside of Montero?
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 6, 2011 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
From the ESPN story about breakdown of the trade talks....
The Yankees had offered Seattle a three-player package, centered around catcher Jesus Montero — who is rated as one of the best prospects in baseball, despite questions about whether he can be a catcher in the big leagues — second baseman David Adams and a young prospect.
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jul 6, 2011 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
If I remember
the 2b prospect – Adams – had some injury revealed that made Jack Z panic and go with Smoak. Or that was the story at the time at least.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
And the Yankees wouldn't substitute Nova in for him.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
Exactly...
the Mariners became concerned about the health of Adams, who is out with a sprained ankle.
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jul 6, 2011 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
That's where the ninja stepped in....
The Rangers could get creative in a proposed package if Seattle would pay part of Lee’s salary. That’s what Texas did with San Francisco in the Bengie Molina trade, sending prospect Michael Main to the Giants as part of the deal so that San Francisco would pay Molina’s salary. That kept the wiggle room in place that GM Jon Daniels may use in this trade or others.
The Yankees had believed all along that no other team matched up better than they would with Seattle in a Lee deal because they are offering a top prospect in Montero, who figures to have a long and productive career as a hitter regardless of whether he plays catcher or first base.
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jul 6, 2011 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions
The ninja is so awesome.
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
All the Loux talk in the prospect rankings
made me dream that possibly The Ninja convinced the DBacks to take Loux, and not sign him to get picks in 2011, and had Loux ready to get as a F.A. when Texas actually had money when MLB granted him FA status.
I know that’s nonsense, but I enjoy that dream… The Ninja is amazing…
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Would have been straight diabolical.
But didn’t happen.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
I know... and that's kind of too bad
but the fun thing about JD is that he’s so cool that it could have happened. Jack Z couldn’t have schemed such a thing…
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Well
I think it is more accurate to say that, when Smoak suddenly was put on the table, Seattle used that as an excuse to renege on their deal with the Yanks.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 6, 2011 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah, maybe that was it...
Smoak was the guy who Seattle was dreaming about.
I don’t think the secondary players had anything to do with the deal though. Beavan was as much an excuse to get Seattle to pick up some of Lee’s salary.
In hindsight, do you think Seattle made the right choice?
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Yeah, so the Rangers #2 and #3 prospects were better in that trade then.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 6, 2011 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
well
one could argue that the difference between Montero and Smoak far eclipses Beavan or Lueke.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Perhaps,
but I think the positional questions about Montero don’t make that the case. If you knew you were getting a solid catcher with 75-80 power…
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 6, 2011 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
uh yeah
Beavan got his first major league win last week and Smoak looks to have figured it out. 2 major leaguers a year later under team control for many years = Jack Z win
by corbsclinton on Jul 6, 2011 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
if Beavan would have lost
would that change your mind?
by elvis1isking on Jul 6, 2011 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, I'm not sure about a "win"
You have to be retarded to trade Cliff Lee and get nothing in return (no offense, Amaro)
by Jobu. on Jul 6, 2011 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I want to hear from more of those who didn't agree with the trade....
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jul 6, 2011 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
This
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
I feel this is kind of like a draft...
I’d like to wait more than a year to evaluate it
"A fanatic is one who cannot change his mind and will not change the subject."
Winston Churchill
"I remember diving out of the way of a ball I thought was a line drive. I jumped, but the ball wasn't hit hard and never reached me."
Dock Ellis
Having suffered through > 30 years of Rangers baseball
I have to say the Cliff Lee trade legitimized our team. Yeah, we were in first place before he came but we did beat the crap out of the shittiest NL division to get there. There was always the perception of us being just background noise. No one really every took us seriously. The previous playoff appearances only solidified the notion of us as a bit of a joke.
Once Lee came his regular season performance was so-so, but when the post-season came the other teams looked at us with a twinge of fear. People actually wearing Rangers jerseys in Yankee stadium – and chanting “Let’s Go Rangers” audibly.
Yeah we lost the WS but we earned and won respect that we have never had before. And that’s not going away anytime soon. Cheers to JD!
we're from Texas
CJ says "Relax"
Exactly....oh, and Nolan agrees as well....
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jul 6, 2011 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Without Lee we would not have got this great moment.
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
by boomer1 on Jul 6, 2011 12:14 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
still get chills
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
x
JeffWilson_FWST Jeff Wilson
#Rangers say that Brandon Webb is considering his options, one of which is rotator cuff surgery. He’s likely done for the year.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
He's likely done
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
Of course it was worth it...
it hurt a little losing Smoak, but looking back on it how could you say it’s not worth it for the franchise to go to their first WS?
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
When the deal was made I said the Rangers had to win the World Series or retain Lee for it to be deemed a good trade for the Rangers.
At the time of the trade, I thought Justin Smoak was going to be a very good major league hitter (still do) but I had no idea how good Mitch Moreland was going to be (he wasn’t called up until the end of last July).
I’m sorry, I was brought up rooting for the LA Lakers and LA Dodgers. Losing in The Finals to the Knicks, Sixers and Celtics or in the World Series absolutely sucks. I don’t like getting that close to greatness and not attaining it…how did you feel when the Mavs lost to the Heat in 2006?
Was last season failed for the Rangers? Hell no, it was our best season ever.
Was the career of Justin Smoak worth what we received from Cliff Lee?
Still need more information to form a better opinion (I haven’t voted).
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
If you'd grown up a Texas Ranger fan like many of us here
you’d have realized that the mere possibility of the Rangers appearing in a world series was so far out of the realm of possibility during the 70’s and 80’s. and after getting hammered repeatedly by the Yankees in the playoffs in the 90’s, there was no assurances that even if we did manage to get to the post season we wouldn’t get immediatly punked by the Yankees again. Lee was the ultimate Yankee killer on the market, so getting him gave us the silver bullet to take down the Yankees in the post season. It also served notice to Anaheim that this year, we aren’t going to fold like we did in 2009, so make your October tee times now, because we got Lee and you get the shaft. (though in retrospect, Haren was a better deal but who cares).
Why don't you have a nice big cup of shut the fuck up? - Lisa W 3/4/2011
by iblum on Jul 6, 2011 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I followed the Rangers since '74 and probably know much more about their history
than anybody else in here.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Jul 6, 2011 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
lol
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
What information could you possibly get that you don't have right now?
The question isn’t a difficult one to answer: just say what you think right now.
This is a bullshit equivocation attempt.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
If Justin Smoak becomes a 30-40 HR / .900+ OPS hitter (which I think is going to happen) and Mitch Moreland
becomes a spare or merely an average major league hitter, I’m not sure the trade was worth it….because we didn’t win the World Series or retain Lee.
What becomes of Smoak & Moreland is where I need more information. Otherwise it’s just a guess.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I'm not saying he absolutely cannot physically do it
But Smoak’s shown nothing to justify a prediction of 40 HR’s in his future
AJM isn't asking for a scientific answer backed up by experimentation.
And the value of the trade has already happened. It was worth it whether Justin Smoak goes to the HoF or spontaneously combusts.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
For dumbass unsophisticated fans who are merely happy with going to the World Series instead of winning the sonofabitch.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
So... if we won the World Series, Smoak could turn into Pujols and it wouldn't matter?
"Nolan's about to make me shit my pants." by LiamP on Jun 21, 2011 11:10 PM CDT
I really wouldn't have cared what happened to Smoak if we won the World Series
just like I don’t give a damn that Jarome Iginla is still having a HOF career because we got Super Joe Nieuwendyk and a Stanley Cup.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
It is irrelevant to the value of the trade whether we win the World Series.
He gave the 2010 team exactly what it needed and that’s why we traded for him. We gave up assets to do it, sure, but those assets carried no guarantees of future performance, and the likelihood of success of each was quantified at the time of the trade.
So, whether Justin Smoak gets better than he is right now (or was believed to ever be at the time of the trade) is irrelevant. Just like it is irrelevant if he bursts into flames standing on first base in Safeco. That doesn’t impact the trade, because all relevant parts of it are settled, one iota.
You have the same problem you always have. You’re grading the results and not the process.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
We beat the Yankees and made it to the World Series.
That’s a wildly successful trade in my book. I’d it over and over again no matter how good Smoak turns out to be and even though Lee didn’t stay. The 2010 playoff run was worth the price.
Wow, it's not even close.
Of course it was worth it.
Mitch Moreland certainly makes it easier to say that.
Without Lee
We would be relegated to the same old dustbin of history that we found ourselves in in 1996, 1998, and 1999. We would still be wandering around in that proverbial desert we wandered for nearly 40 years. You know, Moses never got to the “promised land” either, but he damn sure got his people there. Swing Low Sweet Chariot MOFO.
"Anyone that knows me, an' the game of baseball, know what Ron Washington is about."
Beavan and happiness
If Beavan would become a decent SP in the Bigs, I think Seattle is happy. Texas is already happy. For Seattle fans, they look for future happiness. Rangers fans have historic satisfaction knowing Lee did not get hurt, he helped secure the run. I’ll take past happiness considering so little of it exist in Ranger-land.
"Every noble work is at first impossible."
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