Wilson: Brandon Webb "likely done for the year"
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 6, 2011 12:35 PM CDT
Email
PrintAccording to Jeff Wilson of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, Texas Rangers' righthanded pitcher Brandon Webb is "likely done for the year," and is considering his options, including rotator cuff surgery.
I've been avoiding updating the Webb situation, since it seemed to be the same-old, same-old, and about a month ago it seemed like the writing was on the wall that Webb wasn't going to contribute anything this year.
Webb had missed virtually all of the 2009 and 2010 seasons, but prior to that, he had been one of the majors' most dominating pitchers, winning the N.L. Cy Young Award in 2006 and finishing second in 2007 and 2008. The Rangers signed him to a 1 year, $3 million deal after seeing him pitch this fall, when it appeared his velocity was returning and he could contribute in 2011.
Unfortunately, it appears that won't be the case. I don't think that the Webb signing was an unreasonable gamble by the Rangers, but it obviously hasn't worked out.
160 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Oh well...
like Harden, I still think it was worth a shot.
Just sucks that neither one of those deals worked out.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Eh
Colby did. Not the exact same thing, but same type of ‘take a flyer’ situation. 1/3 ain’t bad.
You’d probably also assume people wouldn’t post images of dinosaurs with human penises, but I’m looking for anything I can use to put a fighting robot together! -Closure GT, 7/5/11
Very true...
if you hit on 1 out of every 3 of those types of deals then you need to be doing them every year.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
I don't think Colby is the same type of deal at all
We have yet to hit on the once good but recently injured guy.
Colby had actually pitched the year before and pitched well, albeit in an inferior league.
How many times does ANYONE hit on a recently injured guy?
"Nolan's about to make me shit my pants." by LiamP on Jun 21, 2011 11:10 PM CDT
Francis hasn't been very good this year, though.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 6, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Garcia is good
Bmac is good.
One problem with this exercise is trying to figure out what the pool is. I guess there are some high profile cases of flameout (like Ben Sheets) but then there must be a few who we just forget about
So you don't like his numbers?
I’m guessing you wouldn’t say that he has been better than Lewis this year (even though advanced stats say so)?
Bedard an example of both types
In 2010 Mariners took a flyer and he never pitched, this year they took a flyer and he has worked out pretty good.
Gagne is a good one
but how does Thomson count (forgetting the fact that you had to go back 9 years)
For some reason...
…I thought we signed him after he’d missed a chunk of a couple of seasons. It was the season after he came back that we signed him.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 6, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I also think it matters that Gagne is a reliever
I’m not sure we could have gotten something salvageable out of Harden if he was willing to be a max effort reliever
it was only money
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
I hate it
Seemed like a decent dude who was humble enough to take whatever role would get him back to the big leagues.
"It has been said that baseball is to the United States what revolutions are to Latin America, a safety valve for letting off steam. I think baseball is more serious than any Latin American revolution. But, then, I am a serious fan." -- George F. Will
Heh, the opposite of the Cliff Lee deal
Good gamble, but it lost.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
I don't see how this team makes the playoffs without Webb, our #3 starter.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Playoffs???
Are you kidding me? With no Webb, we will never see first place again after the All Star Break (Ogando will reach max innings, Holland is going on the DL and don’t get me started on CJ). Best thing to do now is turn your eyes to the upcoming HS football season.
Raise your hand if you're an albino.
by Jorbert Jorgenson on Jul 6, 2011 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
A major bust?
@SamMerten Sam Merten
Brandon Webb signing by #Rangers officially a major bust. MRI shows rotator cuff damage. Career over?
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
Not a major bust.
It was worth a shot. Didn’t work out. Had it worked out, it would have been the signing of the century™.
I called him on it now he is pissed
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
.
SamMerten Sam Merten
@
@TeamBryantDFW Umm…when you spend $3 mil. on a guy and he doesn’t pitch the entire year for your big-league club, that’s a bust. #bigtime
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
Maybe I don't get it.
SamMerten Sam Merten
@
@TeamBryantDFW You gotta be kidding me. How about make ONE start or pitch ONE inning? He did neither and pitched poorly in the minors.
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
Bust? Perhaps.
But it was a 3 million, one-year lottery ticket. Hard to call that a bust. Now Barry Zito, that was a big-time bust…
You’d probably also assume people wouldn’t post images of dinosaurs with human penises, but I’m looking for anything I can use to put a fighting robot together! -Closure GT, 7/5/11
well, it was a bust
0 divided by $3 million is a bust.
That said, it is hard to argue that the team is really worse off because of the signing.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Well, that depends on your definition of bust, I think
I tend to think of bust as a signing that not only doesn’t work out, but has more negative consequences than that. In other words, the expectation for something has to be there, and I’m just not sure they were for Webb. And I think we can all agree major bust is overstating it a little… This was just taking a gamble that didn’t pan out.
You’d probably also assume people wouldn’t post images of dinosaurs with human penises, but I’m looking for anything I can use to put a fighting robot together! -Closure GT, 7/5/11
I think the way he used the word was correct
a bust is something that doesn’t yield anything. A losing lottery ticket can be considered a bust (by some)
Yeah, I definitely wouldn't say he was incorrect
but in my view bust holds a more severe connotation that just not yielding anything. Looking at the second meaning, it seems the earlier definitions are generally more severe failures. It’s really a pretty small quibble, and I wouldn’t really fault anybody for saying it’s a bust.
You’d probably also assume people wouldn’t post images of dinosaurs with human penises, but I’m looking for anything I can use to put a fighting robot together! -Closure GT, 7/5/11
Correction:
Who is THE Sam Merten.
Raise your hand if you're an albino.
by Jorbert Jorgenson on Jul 6, 2011 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions
A writer
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
I agree with Sam
It was a bust. This deal was a bust. That’s fine. But, he’s right the deal itself, not Gagne, was a bust.
"Every noble work is at first impossible."
What a waste
Some said Webb’s signing was Lee’s replacement…..
Wished it had worked out. All the best BWebb. Its kinda sad he’s made more Ranger PSA announcements (pregame) than Ranger apperances.
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Fire Pat Knight Hire Billy Clyde
by matthewbschultz83 on Jul 6, 2011 1:05 PM CDT reply actions
Who said Webb was Lee's replacement?
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jul 6, 2011 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Look below....
When giving offseason grades of JD he said we wiffed on Lee and signed Webb as his replacement.
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Fire Pat Knight Hire Billy Clyde
by matthewbschultz83 on Jul 6, 2011 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Stay classy Yankee fans.
Yankee fan calls Carmona a spic
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
Rangers fans sit and badmouth the "foreign players" on the team
sitting right in the damn stands at the game.
"I like wieners" – Texas Jihad, 5.17.2011
"I’ve been a Rangers fan all my life and I can tell you there’s been plenty of fucking crying in baseball…" - WhipSmart, 6.3.08
Fuck yeah, Adrian Beltre!
I have never heard that
And I was a season ticket holder for 8 years. Every team does have those types of fans though.
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
I heard it last night, across the aisle from me.
Dude got up and took his kids to the kids park in center field halfway through the game, and didn’t come back. I don’t know how much longer I could have not said something to his stupid ass.
"I like wieners" – Texas Jihad, 5.17.2011
"I’ve been a Rangers fan all my life and I can tell you there’s been plenty of fucking crying in baseball…" - WhipSmart, 6.3.08
Fuck yeah, Adrian Beltre!
Colby Lewis was healthy in Japan
I don’t have a problem with signing guys who have had shoulder problems. I dont’ like them signing guys who HAVE them at the time.
Oh well. It could have been worse. Rich Harden was worse.
He pitched with the Rangers and sucked ass
That was worse.
by Black Francis on Jul 6, 2011 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Rich Harden had a WAR of -0.7
Webb has a WAR of 0
Sounds like a bargain!
"Nolan's about to make me shit my pants." by LiamP on Jun 21, 2011 11:10 PM CDT
Harden cost twice as much didn't he?
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
And gave us much less.
"I banged a carney once" by Bob Loblaw on June 21, 2011 3:11 PM CDT
"I have experience with goats" by Bob Loblaw by Bob Loblaw on June 25, 2011 6:06 PM CDT
Astros expected to be big sellers at the trade deadline....
Wandy Rodrigues and/or Michael Bourn anyone?
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/how-will-astros-juggle-new-ownership-with-trading-deadline-070411
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jul 6, 2011 2:19 PM CDT reply actions
meh
how much do they actually improve the team vs the cost to acquire them
"It was like the movie Die Hard. The guy gets shot in the leg, he’s limping around and he still throws the bad guy down the elevator shaft. I was about to throw an eephus pitch."-CJ Wilson
Josey Wales is stupid
Really?
Wandy is on the wrong side of 30 and Holland is still young.
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
The signing is now officially a complete bust and waste of $ 3 million.
That’s quite the agent that Brandon Webb retains and it’s also time for many in LSB to come correct and admit that Mitch Williams (said Webb couldn’t get the movement he used to have without hurting himself) was correct when he assessed this signing back in December.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Meh....blind squirrel theory with Williams....
Look…it was $3 mil….it wasn’t $20 mil….it was worth the shot. The Rangers were not the only team wanting him….Cubs, Rockies, Nationals, Twins (among others) were all interested….
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jul 6, 2011 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
If I was a betting man, I would of lost money today.
When Adam posted this, I had the under on 20 comments before JW’s made this comment. Instead it was after close to 50.
By your logic... is every investment that doesn't pan out a waste?
It’s a failed investment for sure.
But that doesn’t make it a waste on it’s face.
If we hadn’t given him the money… someone else was going to. The Reds were very interested in him.
"Nolan's about to make me shit my pants." by LiamP on Jun 21, 2011 11:10 PM CDT
I didn't say "every investment that doesn't pan out is a waste."
The signing of Brandon Webb, who never pitched an inning for the major league club was a colossal waste of $ 3 million.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I wouldn't say colossal.
In terms of baseball contracts $3 million isn’t shit. It was a waste, but the chance of getting anything close to a healthy Brandon Webb made it worth the risk. It just didn’t work out. I ain’t mad.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
So wait...
We are supposed to admit that Mitch Williams was right about Webb not being able to get his old movement w/o hurting himself or that Mitch Williams correctly accessed that a pitcher whom the Rangers saw as risk/reward pitcher coming off a shoulder injury might not ever amount to anything. Because I am fairly certain if the later is the case, we should all get credit then because from what I saw very few of us here had very high expectations of Webb returning to his pre-injury dominance.
After the Rangers signed Webb, MWilliams broke down Webb's delivery on MLB and showed
exactly why he got the movement he did and exactly why he got hurt – Williams absolutely nailed it.
I can understand why some people don’t like Williams but when he’s breaking down the mechanics of pitching, he’s fairly knowledgeable. That’s fairly ironic considering how his mechanics were hardly smooth but the man understands pitching.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Credit to Mitch Williams is noted
The overall impact on the 2011 big league ball club is negligible. Cut your losses and move on.
"Overall impact on the 2011 big league ball club is negligible" ??? Until you realize This Thing is still in the market for a starting pitcher.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Implication
The implication of your statement is that the FO would have used that $3M to sign a different pitcher that would have a current positive impact on the club. I’m not certain of this to be true. $3M isn’t that much to spend on a starting pitcher in free agency.
Or they could have taken that $ 3 million spent on Webb, the $ 3 million on Yorvit
and the $ 3.75 million on Rhodes and applied it somewhere else.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Show me a team that spends money
That you can’t go back and show where they could spend it better with hindsight.
Some of these you railed on at the time… but you also railed on ones that weren’t that bad and DIDN’T rail on Vernon Wells trade.
No one is perfect.
"Nolan's about to make me shit my pants." by LiamP on Jun 21, 2011 11:10 PM CDT
I didn't praise the Wells trade either. I said I was on the fence with that deal
and that I thought Scioscia & Reagins deserved more latitude than they were getting because of their track record.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Reagins track record v. JD's is very bad
Yet you cut JD no slack.
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
I can't go back and search easily at work.
But the day it happened you were pretty positive about it.
You backed off a bit since then.
I could be mistaken, but that’s my memory.
"Nolan's about to make me shit my pants." by LiamP on Jun 21, 2011 11:10 PM CDT
I
was on the fence with this deal and it’s mainly because of the respect I have for Scioscia & Reagins.
I’m on the fence because that much money for Vernon Wells is too much but they made that deal because there was no place for Rivera & Napoli on their 2011 roster plus they thought it made them better.
I admired their boldness given how much shit they knew they were going to get from the interwebs and their own fans.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Admiration for doing really dumb things that everyone knows is dumb but you?
I have a feeling that if someone like you didn’t know you, they’d have a lot of admiration for you.
I think we need to see how this plays out before somebody
can call it dumb.
Napoli & Rivera didn’t have a place on that roster.
Vernon Wells has an .830ish OPS since June 1 and the Angels are tied for first place.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Napoli would be the best catcher on that roster.
He’s a better fit for that roster than Wells or Mathis. Jeff Mathis didn’t have place on that roster.
You rip a guy, Torrealba, for being signed at $3.75M and having a .660 OPS from the catcher position. You don’t rip Wells for having a .646 OPS and having $85M left on his contract AND costing Mike Napoil. Please tell me you can see the absolutely heinous double standard here.
He doesn't see the double standard at all.
Look at his comments above and below. He’ll try to find some random statistic that shows that Wells is actually better than his numbers then another set of statistics that show how bad Torrealba is. Just in this thread he has referenced Wells’ OPS from June 1 till now, and Torrealba’s OBP in late May while completely ignoring their numbers for the season.
by michael bluth on Jul 6, 2011 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Scioscia couldn't stand to have Napoli (Baseball Prospectus called him "defensively challenged") behind the plate
and he also saw last year that Napoli was a strict platoon player who shouldn’t get more than 350 plate appearances.
Napoli was also in line to make $ 6 million in arbitration although there wasn’t a place for him on the roster.
Mike Scioscia won a title as a catcher and as a manager. His teams won 5 of 6 AL West titles.
He has a much better handle on the Angel catching situation than you.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
But Napoli is catching well here, is he not?
Perhaps Scioscia misjudged his catching abilities? It happens, especially with guys who used to play the position… for another example in a different sport, see Avery and Devin Harris.
You’d probably also assume people wouldn’t post images of dinosaurs with human penises, but I’m looking for anything I can use to put a fighting robot together! -Closure GT, 7/5/11
Scioscia had to find a way to make his team
better and doing that meant acquiring Wells and parting with Napoli & Rivera.
Thus far, it appears that Angels made themselves a better team in the off-season.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
That's a separate argument though.
Personally I think they could’ve done a few different things to bring somebody without the huge contract of Wells, but again, different argument. Do you think it’s possible Scioscia misjudged Napoli’s catching ability?
You’d probably also assume people wouldn’t post images of dinosaurs with human penises, but I’m looking for anything I can use to put a fighting robot together! -Closure GT, 7/5/11
I think it's possible that Scioscia misjudged
Napoli’s catching ability but that would mean somebody who is a true expert at the position screwed up an evaluation of a player he’s had for several years.
I don’t know what happened but you don’t win as much as Scioscia has without knowing what you’re doing.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I think it happens a lot though
Ironically enough, it appears (purely anecdotally, I don’t have any hard evidence) that coaches are often the worst at judging the position they played, or they’re at least the hardest on those players. Avery with Harris, Spurrier with his QBs, etc etc. I wouldn’t be too surprised at all if Scioscia misjudged Naps.
You’d probably also assume people wouldn’t post images of dinosaurs with human penises, but I’m looking for anything I can use to put a fighting robot together! -Closure GT, 7/5/11
I give Scioscia plenty of latitude
That many consecutive years of pushing a team above their Pythag is evidence enough for me to give a manager as much praise as I can give (which isn’t much). He deserves credit for being a good manager.
Even good managers/GM’s screw up sometimes. They screwed up big on that trade.
The standings, to date, disagree.
They’re currently on a pace to win 86 games.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
They were also on pace to win 86 games last year at the same point in the season.
They didn’t quite get there.
by michael bluth on Jul 6, 2011 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Which is one of the reasons why
Scioscia had no problems shipping both Rivera & Napoli for that contract.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
LOL.
My point is that just because they’re on pace for a certain number of wins now doesn’t mean that they will get there. It’s idiotic of you to point at the number of wins they are on pace for at the moment and completely ignore that they were on the same pace last year.
by michael bluth on Jul 6, 2011 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions
For the record
You are saying getting rid of Napoli and gaining Wells made them a better team?
We’re not talking about Kendrick, Haren, Walden, Bourjos, Trumbo here.
No
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I'm saying the Angels, to date, appear
to be better than they were last year.
They’ve had several things happen (not just Napoli, Rivera for VWells) since their season ended last September.
To take on that contract, Scioscia must have really wanted to get rid of those players.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Ha
Your pesky numbers have no place in this discussion.
by michael bluth on Jul 6, 2011 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions
That's why I keep saying "to date."
To date, the Angels are on a pace to win 86 games and last year (with Napoli & Rivera) they were below .500.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
No they weren't
They were 5 games above .500 at the same point last year. They appear to be the exact same.
You can’t use “to date” in one place and not in the other. It invalidates your point.
But on this date
With Napoli and Rivera they were at the same point.
"Nolan's about to make me shit my pants." by LiamP on Jun 21, 2011 11:10 PM CDT
It was after this date
that Scoscia had enough of Napoli and Rivera. He stopped talking to them and started rumors that they were both “easy” if you know what I mean. Napoli and Rivera were like, “oh know you didn’t” and they started rumors that Scoscia slept with their boyfriends. That’s when Scoscia just lost it and said, “you can’t come over to my house anymore” and traded them for a new friend.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jul 6, 2011 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
And after 87 games in 2010 the Angels had a run differential of
-7 which suggested the Angels were far closer to a .500 team than a team that was capable of winning 86 games (Angels finished 80-82).
The Angels have the same record through 87 games this year but a run differential of +13 which suggests this team is more likely to finish with a better record than the 2010 team.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
So it was worth taking on an extra
80m in contract to have the same record at this point and a 20 run differential boost?
Sounds reasonable.
"Nolan's about to make me shit my pants." by LiamP on Jun 21, 2011 11:10 PM CDT
Especially
Since they could have had Wells off of the waiver wire last year… and if he was still in Toronto, probably again this year.
"Nolan's about to make me shit my pants." by LiamP on Jun 21, 2011 11:10 PM CDT
Told you I was on the fence with the deal.
I see both sides.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
What is the positive side to this trade?
The Angels give up $20+ million in salary for each of the next 4 years and Napoli for a player that has to date posted a .646 OPS and been worth a WAR of around 0 depending on if you look at FG or BR. What is the positive here?
by michael bluth on Jul 6, 2011 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions
The better option would have been to play Rivera
and release Napoli. They’d be a better team right now with that alignment even with the Josey logic about how awful Napoli is according to Scoscia.
The Angels received $ 5 million from
the Blue Jays plus they didn’t have to pay Napoli & Rivera $ 11 million.
That means 4 years / $ 71 million total outlay for Wells.
That’s still too much money for Wells but there is no salary cap in MLB, the Angels have had good luck with older OFs in the past (Abreu, Hunter) and they have several big contracts coming off the books this year and next.
I heard on XM (reporters from Orange County) that Scioscia had issues with both Napoli & Rivera. Does it make sense to keep those players around when they make that much money, have no place on the roster and could also poison the water with all those young players you’re breaking in?
To date, the Angels are on a pace to be better than they were last year and if Wells (who was hurt early on) keeps doing what he’s been doing since June 1, they’re going to be tough in the second half.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
lol
This justification is comical. There is no way you can say that giving up Napoli for an overpaid, aging outfielder that may or may not put up a positive WAR this year is a good move. Even if they wanted to give up Napoli, he could have brought in someone of way more value than Wells.
by michael bluth on Jul 6, 2011 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions
And before you say anything
46-41 is equal to 46-41. I’m done with this argument. it has been fun as always.
Go Rangers tonight. Go Tigers.
And if I'm looking at two teams
with identical 46-41 records and need to project which team will finish with the better record after 162 games, the first place I go is to their run differentials.
It’s one reason I think the Rangers finish ahead of the Angels this year.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
You know this is a pretty good argument
It in no way proves anything about Vernon Wells but it is a good argument. I’m impressed.
You are an idiot if you think Wells is the reason the Angels are better this year.
I can’t believe that you go out of your way to talk about how bad the signing of Torrealba was for $3.75M but then praise the Wells trade ($85M left on his contract) and claim that he is part of the reason that the Angels are better this year. That is really, really stupid-even for you.
by michael bluth on Jul 6, 2011 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions
The Angels are sure as fuck NOT better because of Vernon fucking Wells.
It’s probably the ace they acquired halfway through last season for almost nothing.
Maybe. It could be that guy that’s pitching fucking lights out for them.
Or it could be the guy the guy with the terrible contract that can’t hit for shit.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
What?
You don’t think the guy with the 0.1 WAR according to fangraphs and the .646 OPS is helping out the team?
by michael bluth on Jul 6, 2011 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh yeah.
That guy is a fucking stud. Totally worth the $20+ million they’re paying him.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011, in response to me saying I would rather face the Thunder than the Grizzlies in the WCF.
The beauty in it for the Angels...
is that he’s only owed $21 million for the next 3 years. If you think he’s good now, just wait until 2014 when he’s 35 and making $21 million.
by michael bluth on Jul 6, 2011 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions
You know who would be a great platoon player on that team?
Napoli. Get rid of Mathis. Platoon Napoli with Conger and Trumbo. Conger and Trumbo are both hitting right handers well and not left handers. Spend the $14M you save on Wells on anything and you become instantly a lot better.
they could have spent that 14M on Beltre
which would have strengthened them and weakened their divisional rival. I’m just really, really happy they didn’t.
"Because you’re the stupid, stupid, so quit fucking being stupid"--- courtesy of ab03, the great connoisseur of stupid.
Calm down with the agenda
Not every signing works out. The Webb and Rhodes signings didn’t work out. You can apply this logic to pretty much every team in baseball. The Rangers aren’t unique in having failed signings. Having failed signings on 1-year contracts aren’t something to get worked up about.
Bad signings like Vernon Wells, John Lackey, Alex Rios, etc. are something to get worked up about. Signings like Webb and Rhodes aren’t that big of a deal. The impact on the big league club isn’t very big.
I don't think you can really fault the Yorvit signing too much
unless you want Teagarden up here… to me Rhodes is the worst signing of those three, and it’s still not particularly bad (unless that option vests).
You’d probably also assume people wouldn’t post images of dinosaurs with human penises, but I’m looking for anything I can use to put a fighting robot together! -Closure GT, 7/5/11
We could have easily rolled with Treanor, Napoli and Teagarden at catcher this season.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Oh, I did forget about Treanor
Fair enough. I’m not sure it was a bad move, but I’m also not sure they were entirely sold on Napoli as a catcher. What happens if the Rangers decide they didn’t want him catching more than 20-30 games?
You’d probably also assume people wouldn’t post images of dinosaurs with human penises, but I’m looking for anything I can use to put a fighting robot together! -Closure GT, 7/5/11
Treanor sucks
Saying Torrealba at $3.5M because you could have had Treanor at $1M is ridiculous. Yorvit’s contract isn’t very big and he’s a much better catcher than Treanor.
Yorvit sucks and the difference between him and Treanor
is not worth $ 2-2.5 million or whatever it is.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I disagree
Yorvit’s OPS was in the .730 range in 2009 and 2010. That is a big improvement over Treanor. The signing made sense for an extra $2M. Regardless, it makes very little difference in the end. The Rangers weren’t getting Victor Martinez or some other elite player with that money saved.
Yorvit's OBP was somewhere around .250 in late May / early June.
He’s also made a shit-load of errors and it’s been intimated this season that some of the pitchers weren’t all that jazzed to pitch to him.
He sucks and shouldn’t catch more than 60-70 games a season.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Yorvit
.781 OPS in March/April
.346 OPS in May
.796 OPS in June
.741 OPS in 4 games so far in July
Despite an awful May his OBP is almost back up to .300. His OPS is near league average (.679).
Yorvit hasn’t been great but he certainly isn’t some huge bust/mistake like you make him out to be. That is absolutely absurd.
I agree about Rhodes
He’s had the biggest negative impact considering opportunity cost and below replacement level performance.
I don’t see the problem with the Yorvit signing. He was better than all of the in-house options and his contract is pretty small.
The Yorvit signing was unnecessary.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Signing Yorvit and getting rid of Treanor is a positive move
Tell me which starting pitcher you’d have signed for the $9M you save by not having those three players.
Are they?
I’ve heard a lot of speculation from the board, but not any real rumors.
You’d probably also assume people wouldn’t post images of dinosaurs with human penises, but I’m looking for anything I can use to put a fighting robot together! -Closure GT, 7/5/11
Trade deadline isn't here yet.
Moves will be made, count on it.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
LOL.
I never would have guessed this comment would show up in here.
by michael bluth on Jul 6, 2011 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Go fuck yourself you dumb sack of shit
"It was like the movie Die Hard. The guy gets shot in the leg, he’s limping around and he still throws the bad guy down the elevator shaft. I was about to throw an eephus pitch."-CJ Wilson
Josey Wales is stupid
How many pre-season top 5 college football teams have finished below .500 in history?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
How many national championships has Tech won?
Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons.
But it wasn't Mitch Williams
it was the other guy on there, Dan Plesac I believe, who did the piece on his arm action and the damage to the shoulder
of course, they say a lot of stuff on those shows … some of it’s true, some it is just plain pure conjecture … didn’t more than a few sources say that Ogando’s delivery was too max effort to last for 6+ innings/game?
I don't think as many people thought we'd get anything out of Webb as you seem to be suggesting.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
Our long national nightmare is over.
@aandro: The Rangers have unconditionally released Dave Bush.
"I like wieners" – Texas Jihad, 5.17.2011
"I’ve been a Rangers fan all my life and I can tell you there’s been plenty of fucking crying in baseball…" - WhipSmart, 6.3.08
Fuck yeah, Adrian Beltre!
This place got much more conversational mileage out of Dave Bush than I thought possible.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
And bigsteve sits in a corner and weeps
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
That might've been his greatest contribution this year.
You’d probably also assume people wouldn’t post images of dinosaurs with human penises, but I’m looking for anything I can use to put a fighting robot together! -Closure GT, 7/5/11
Once the Tigers
were able to start a pitcher named Furbush, there was really no point in keeping him.
by DaveHostetlersLoveChild on Jul 6, 2011 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm shocked.
Shocked, I tell you.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
How many surgeries has Webb had on his shoulder?
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brush her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
the National media is talking about this now.
@ScottMCBSSports: Joe West, Angel Hernandez and Co. are the most brutal umpiring crew. Managers & players cringe when they show up.
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
They are about as welcome as gonorrhea
"Anyone that knows me, an' the game of baseball, know what Ron Washington is about."
Ass face Angels lose!
Let’s go Rangers!
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
But he was throwing 86 MPH in rehab! If you don't think that's cause for optimisim, you're a terrible person!
/Aquaman
I’m not a psychopath. I’m a high functioning sociopath. Do your research.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Lone Star Ball
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Get a grip: Reds’ Todd Frazier loses bat, still connects for home run (Video)
- Eric Hosmer redefines the Baltimore chop with infield double (Video)
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
