Poll Question -- Six Pitchers, Five Rotation Spots
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 11, 2012 10:30 AM CST
Email
PrintThe deadline for the Rangers to sign Yu Darvish is a week from today, and all indications are that a deal is likely to happen.
That, of course, puts the Rangers in a position where they have six starters for five rotation spots.
These things usually sort themselves out, one way or the other, of course.
But for the sake of discussion, assuming everyone is healthy, who do you think should be the odd man out when Opening Day rolls around? Who should be out of the rotation, either via trade, moving to the bullpen, or being sent to the minors?
Cast your vote...
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Landslide!
"When I came off the mound the hairs were standing up on my arm. I know there's not much"
/Holland.
Sexi Lexi
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 11, 2012 10:44 AM CST via mobile reply actions
I voted Alexi cause he's the logical choice, but I'm not very happy about it.
Kinda like when Obama got elected – HEYOOOOOOOOH
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
haha
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 11, 2012 10:45 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
here here
hear hear?
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
Wh the heck is voting for Yu?
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 11, 2012 10:44 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Cheap bastards.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
Maybe someone who wants the Rangers to have the most expensive relief pitcher in baseball?
by RangersfaninROK on Jan 11, 2012 11:15 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Josey.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
by Aqua on Jan 11, 2012 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Most likely
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 11, 2012 11:33 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Not as weird as Darvish votes though
My guess is people are voting for Colby because they think he’s the worst starter of the bunch
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
This
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 12, 2012 8:11 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
FelizCheez is right there with you
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 11, 2012 10:49 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I don't think this is a bad idea at all
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Trade him for who?
Expectation is the root of all heartache. — William Shakespeare
by TheDutchOven on Jan 11, 2012 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
I wouldn't trade any of them
Maybe I’m still shell shocked from the days the Rangers would use 400 starting pitchers a season, but there’s really not a lot of help in the minors if someone goes down. Having Ogando and Feldman around could be pretty handy.
by Black Francis on Jan 11, 2012 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
I think some people are spoiled after last year
Aint gonna happen again.
by blakethegr8 on Jan 11, 2012 11:19 AM CST up reply actions
Nope. Depth is priceless.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
Last year
You mean when 40% of the rotation going into spring training didn’t start a game for the Rangers all season?
by Darrell McKown on Jan 11, 2012 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
What?
Martin Perez and Neil Ramirez don’t do anything for you?
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
If we see Martin getting starts before August, something went wrong.
by blakethegr8 on Jan 11, 2012 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
Well... that's the point of having multiple SP?
Because something almost always does go wrong.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
In the sense that it's not part of Plan A? Sure.
In the sense that it’s a Plan C? Nope.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 11:24 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think Perez should be Plan C going into the season.
I don’t think Perez should not be Plan Z going into the season.
If Perez looks good at AAA for part of the season, then maybe he can be of use to the Rangers this year. But for now, I’m pretty convinced the kid needs to develop his game in the minors, without anyone making him part of the 2012 major-league plans.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
Ugh.
That should read, “I don’t think Perez should be Plan Z going into the season.”
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
Meh.
I don’t have it in me to argue about the 9th starter in the rotational depth chart in January.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:09 PM CST up reply actions
Well, you're in the wrong place, bucko.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Nonsense.
We still have bashing the front office for not extending 5 players each offseason, not having a contract with Yu yet, not signing Prince yet, getting involved in Prince rumors, and critiquing Evan Grant…
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:21 PM CST up reply actions
Blanco
you’ve done well here. We want to extend you before you hit FA.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 11, 2012 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
It wouldn't be interesting to me, either, except for the Rangers' track record.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
how about the 10th, then?
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Or very, very right.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Spell this out for me.
Harrison is dealt for legitimate, MLB-ready value at 1B/COF spot and Perez dominates in AAA?
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Yes.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Sigh.
I don’t think either outcome is likely, but 4 WAR LHPs don’t exactly grow on trees, AND EVERYONE TOLD ME MARTIN PEREZ WAS GOING TO BE JOHAN SANTANA.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Johan Santana started out of the pen...
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
It would take less of a step up for Perez to dominate AAA this year
than many are assuming, I think.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
I don't know...
I get the impression people think he needs to work on a lot of things. If he were called up on June 1st for some reason, I think he has shown enough for us to expect him to have some decent starts. It’s just that there would be bad starts mixed in [that would probably outnumber the good starts].
He needs to develop consistent command. Time in AAA is going to help that and is needed, obviously, but it’s not like he’s two years away from helping the big league club…
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:11 PM CST up reply actions
I think we have differing definitions of 'help'
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
I don't really want to see Perez in Arlington until September.
And in terms of help, I’m looking forward to him winning a spot in the rotation in April 2013. I guess that’s only 16 months.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
Depends how he does this year.
I just don’t think him being called up a month early is the end of the world, assuming he performs well in AAA. It would be different if this were a year ago.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:38 PM CST up reply actions
For me it doesn't depend on how he does this year.
If he dominates AAA, great. Let him dominate AAA until September, and then use that experience and confidence to win a starting rotation spot in April 2013.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
They're not ready to start MLB games yet.
by Black Francis on Jan 11, 2012 11:44 AM CST up reply actions
They aren't backup plan A, either.
I think Perez could be an above replacement level pitcher this year.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
Much higher than you, apparently.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:11 PM CST up reply actions
Based on what I've read and heard, his command needs a lot of work,
as does his bounce-backitude.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
Sure,
but this ignores that when he has his good starts [and has a feel for his offspeed stuff], he’s been pretty good at AAA. I don’t want to rely on him as the #3 starter this year…or #5…but #8 or 9?
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:32 PM CST up reply actions
He had 10 starts and 49 innings at AAA with mixed results.
And based on Parks’ and Cole’s reviews of him, his arsenal, and his approach to the game, I want him in AAA all year, unless absolute disaster strikes the big-league club.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
(By which I mean something akin to a natural disaster.)
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
Not like an outbreak of scurvy?
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Limey
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:45 PM CST up reply actions
you're both right
I think he could be above replacement level—but that would not in any way be contradictory to saying he would still need more time. If he is on he could definitely get major league hitters out for a while, but I’d much rather see him in AAA until he forces the team’s hand.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Plenty of help...
We have Feldman right there in the pen, we have Perez, Ramirez, Kirkman and Scheppers who could all come up and throw a few starts and not embarrass themselves.
The way the market is right now could be the best time to trade Harrison with his stock at an all-time high.
I'm going out on a limb here
and say that Scheppers won’t start.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
This issue will resolve itself in spring training, when someone inevitably heads to the DL
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Over/Under 3.5 WAR
Colby, at least until he proves he’s healthy, seems most likely to be under.
In vino, veritas
Feliz and his lack of command still bothers me.
by Black Francis on Jan 11, 2012 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
That is true
but it’s a foregone conclusion that he will be in the rotation. I don’t know if 160 innings at a 3.7 FIP is realistic, but if he’s worse much worse than that won’t they try something else?
In vino, veritas
No,
because even if he’s only an average to above average starting pitcher this year while they have somebody else who would be marginally better, the long-term payoff from Feliz’ greater ceiling would be worth it.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
a 1000 times yes
you let Feliz start 30 times and roll with the punches. Your reward could very well be a lot more games like Holland’s awesome playoff start down the road.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
i dont think its a foregone conclusion
wouldnt be surprised he starts in RR to get his shit together
Bothers me less in the first three innings than the last three outs though.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
Over.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
What about Feldman!?
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, jonthefon, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
No Holland votes.. that's amazing.
Not cause he deserves any.. but there’s usually some putz going around doing stuff like that.
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, jonthefon, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
I guess Ogando is the choice to go with
I won’t vote though!
He’ll beast in the bullpen.. he’d beast in the rotation too though but it’d have to be at the expense of Feliz which isn’t going to happen. Lewis will be in the rotation as well.
What was the question? Who should not or who do we think will not? Heh. Ah should not.. well that changes everything.. sorry.
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, jonthefon, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
Ongoing FanGraphs chat
Comment From Brian
Assuming Darvish signs and everyone is healthy, which of the Rangers’ six starters would you move to the pen next season?
12:13
Dave Cameron:
I’d probably gauge the trade market for Colby Lewis, honestly.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
I understand that from a pure production standpoint.
But I think the vet presence has value. Not to mention the likely surplus value he can give in production.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I think it depends on how Lewis bounces back from the injury,
but I don’t disagree that having one guy who isn’t terribly high variance is a good thing.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 11:19 AM CST up reply actions
Heh.
I think he’s one of the highest variance actually.
But he’s also the only one I feel 100% won’t freak out and can provide mentor-ship to the other players.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
As of right now? Sure.
But once we hit Spring Training and we can get a feel for how healthy he is? Seems like a much easier task to guess how good he’ll be.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
Yes.
And if he is healthy… I definitely want to keep him. I’ve got reasonable confidence that he’s a 3.5 WAR pitcher if healthy.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Let's call it 3.
That’s useful, especially at that price. But look at the floor of Healthy Colby compared to every other pitcher on the staff.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 11:25 AM CST up reply actions
and
if he’s not healthy, you still get to keep him untli he is….
Lewis
There’s also some value in having a starter who’s pitched both in Japan and the States to have around when our new ace needs a bit of advice. Not sure I’d shop Colby.
"Those cocksuckers asking me if I thought we were gonna go up there and try to work his fuckin’ pitch count ‘cause he’s on three fuckin’ days rest…you know what I told those cocksuckers? He pitch ball, ball cross plate, we gonna knock the shit out of it."
- Wash
ugh...just read your comment after I posted mine....
I completely agree with this line of thinking….
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jan 11, 2012 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
Since he also had a stint in the NPB, I think Lewis will also have some value with Darvish
helping him get acclimated.
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jan 11, 2012 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
What kind of return could we get for Colby I wonder.
by RangersfaninROK on Jan 11, 2012 11:19 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I wonder this, too.
What about Cincinnati?
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
Do you think the Reds will try to kill JD if he asks for Votto or Bruce?
by RangersfaninROK on Jan 11, 2012 11:32 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
They'll just laugh.
Maybe ask about Elvis in return.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
What do they have left?
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
I can only remember Mesoraco now
Colby won’t fetch him of course.
by RangersfaninROK on Jan 11, 2012 12:12 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, good point.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:12 PM CST up reply actions
Not enough to make it worth it
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, jonthefon, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
You're probably right.
Colby’s more valuable to us than to other teams I suspect.
by RangersfaninROK on Jan 11, 2012 11:27 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Woah.
Comment From Max
Is there any evidence to suggest that real GM’s read Fangraphs? Or that Jack Z reads USSMariner? (because he should.)
12:48
Dave Cameron:
Plenty. We talk to front office execs all the time. Every team in baseball reads FG.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 11:49 AM CST up reply actions
They'd be insane not be aware of it and consider it.
Using it as part of their decision tree is a different matter.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I highly doubt that teams have a better database for information than b-ref or FG
I think they’d be insane not to use either of them for that alone.
Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.
I’d be disappointed as fuck if they didn’t. They have the ability to pay people to review and analyze data to provide much more depth than box score information.
All FanGraphs does is take that box score info and PitchFX data and apply algorithms to derive their values for their site. Something that anyone could replicate or modify based on their opinion.
And the data presented via the FanGraphs or B-Ref websites only allow for so much granularity. They’ve decided most of the methods to organize the data.
I’d be shocked if every team didn’t have their own database so they can slice and dice data in more specific ways than those consumer websites allow.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
As well as compiling a significant amount of data...
That only human scouting and review or Sportsvision can provide (FieldFX / HitFX) to go with it.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Yep.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:14 PM CST up reply actions
Me, too.
If the Rangers don’t have an incredible data collection, storage, and analysis branch of the front office, and rely mainly on Baseball-Reference or FanGraphs? I’d be very disappointed.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
I know CJ Wilson was very complimentary
of the ability for players to see virtually any video they want and helpful analysis tools to go with it. Considering the level of effort that went into that, I expect that they have much better data analysis capabilities than FanGraphs.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:15 PM CST up reply actions
I met the guy at the Rangers that does that briefly.
I really wish I could talk to him in depth. I was taking a tour of the ballpark last year on the day after Thanksgiving (2010) and I was the only person on my tour. There was a year end employee party coming up and he was chatting with my tour guide and she introduced me to him.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
OH. MAN.
They should to a baseball nerds tour. Less time gazing at the lockerroom, more time walking around the front office facilities.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:17 PM CST up reply actions
Same
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I would pay a pretty penny.
And sign an NDA.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Indeed.
Perhaps a less pretty penny than you, but hey, student stipend and all…
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
I would loan you the money interest free.
Till that MD money starts rolling in.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I would lend it to you for free
as long as you bought the ice cream sundaes after the tour.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 11, 2012 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
I also took the tour solo...
10 1/2 years ago, and while I didn’t run into the data person, it was still a blast! Nobody pay you any attention when it’s you and the tour guide.
Also...
The basis of my comment, is that the value added by these fan-centric sites is smart people doing analysis on data and giving you information.
Let’s take WAR and wRC+ as an example. Those are nice ways to evaluate players and they’ve made that available to everyone who may not have the skill or access to derive that type of information. It also provides common ground for fans to discuss information and have like values.
For teams however…you don’t want like values… you want a competitive edge. There’s a reason guys like the CHONE guy pull their stuff off the market. Teams don’t want to speak the same language… they want to evaluate players BETTER than what fans and the next guy can do.
They need to be aware of it… they need to know what public information is out there… but they also need to be better than it.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I agree with your point on competitive advantage
But I think you vastly overrate where major league front offices are at right now. Some teams might have that but I doubt most teams do.
It took me about 8 hours of personal time.
And no experience with perl to build my own database of 2011 data that’s probably nearly identical to the base information that FanGraphs has.
And I can answer questions that FanGraphs does not provide with it.
I would be shocked if every team doesn’t have an IT department with a guy who does the exact same thing, just to be able to answer simple questions that neither FanGraphs or Baseball Reference provide.
For example. What was Josh Hamilton’s OPS when he swings at the first pitch. Not puts in play… but just swings (and the eventual result of that at bat)?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Yeah,
in an interview with Francona and Epstein, they mentioned that their stat department has access to virtually every split you can think of.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
I've been looking at a lot of first pitch data.
Interesting stuff. I’m planning an article around it (specifically related to Hamilton).
None of that stuff is available without building it yourself.
Same with the catcher splits I did for Holland.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
It is important to note
That you are using examples from two of the most known forward thinking clubs out there.
I’d be more impressed if you were talking about Houston or San Francisco or something.
Yeah,
that was the surprising part to me. Seattle talks to FG? Not surprising at all. Kansas City has? Iiiiinteresting.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:26 PM CST up reply actions
You work in an NBA (and MLB?) front office.
There’s no DBA that works for the T’Wolves?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I can assure you the Twins had no one in their IT department who did that when I was there.
And I doubt they do now. I worked pretty directly with the IT department and they all had very specific roles, none of which were related to creating a database for the baseball operations department.
Now the baseball ops department had people who are there to support their executives and scouts by supplying them with information. I’m pretty sure the interns did most of the work in that department. I don’t know what they had access to, maybe a shared database or maybe something at Elias. I do know that they didn’t have a DBA who’s job was to create a database with information like you mentioned.
I just don’t think several organizations find it that important, or at least I don’t think they did in the very recent past. I think most of the idea of a “competitive advantage” came from the scouts and the experience. Things have changed and quickly. They might have changed dramatically in the past three-four years. I still think it isn’t as comprehensive as you think. Not even close.
But forget boxscores...
How would they keep track of scouting reports on hundreds or thousands of players?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I'd be flabbergasted if the Twins don't have people
who work on this sort of thing.
Hell, I’d be flabbergasted if the Royals and Astros don’t have those sorts of people.
I wouldn’t expect the guys in IT to be creating the databases, though — just like the guys in the IT department that supports the folks where I work don’t do the data collection, organization, storage, or analysis for our researchers. (That’d be nice!)
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
Data is an odd aspect of IT.
At my particular organization I’m heavily involved with the business practices and how we do our job. I’ve built up almost as much accounting and banking compliance and finance knowledge as I have programming and database management knowledge in my time here.
I can see some organizations having “IT” be the infrastructure and desktop support teams and the data guys as in the actual business areas.
Where I work, IT creates the databases and handles the collection, organization and storage and some of the analysis. That’s my entire department… but I could also pull my department out of IT and it would still make sense to people. Over half the people that work for me sit in the departments of the business areas they primarily support.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
It isn't people in the IT department.
At least not in any of the organizations I’ve worked for. The gophers who collect the information are always part of the “insert sport” operations department.
I don't know the system. I've never seen it.
But I do know that they didn’t have a guy with a DBA background putting it together. From what I could ascertain, and let me clarify that I didn’t work in the baseball ops department, it was a combination of a baseball ops intern and a couple of people with coordinator in their job title.
I’m sure they had a database of some sort to input that information into. Like I said, I just don’t think it is as comprehensive as you mentioned, at least not at the time.
That happens in all industries all the time though.
You take smart business power users and they build a database (often Microsoft Access god forbid) to track this information themselves.
Then as the technological capabilities mature… they hire a real DBA to come in and clean up the god forsaken mess created by the guy that knew the subject matter.
This isn’t limited to sports organizations… every business deals with this growing pain.
But even then… I’d be surprised if they didn’t have something that let them at least do their own custom splits beyond Fangraphs or Baseball reference.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Yeah,
I have a friend who’s job is as a middle man between the IT department and the business side at a health care company.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
You know, it just occurred to me:
Just over the last few months, Tango has posted a number of job opportunities among other links that show how widespread front-office saberism is getting.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
If I were at a different point in my career and life...
I would apply for the Astros job. When I was a full time developer that was precisely my skill set.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
And this job...
Is basically I want I do now.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Hey! We could hang out,
and you could get me Cubs tickets!
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
Yep.
If I were hiring a GM, I would want somebody who had read The Book and similar materials and who consistently keeps up with it because I want them always challenging their minds in how they think about baseball. I care less about if they use wRC+ or wOBA and more that they understand why those are better than AVG and OPS and perhaps a way to use that information better.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:17 PM CST up reply actions
If I were a GM...
And someone brought me justification of their opinion using data solely from FanGraphs… I would consider firing them.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
There's too much we don't know about that scenario,
but I understand your point. Not sure I agree.
One of the great strengths of the Rangers organization is how much cross talk there is. We heard a lot about it when the Tex and Gagne trades were reviewed years later because the LA scouts talked to the minor league scouts in helping to determine which players were promising. Maybe it’s too much to hope that the scouts understand most of the newer concepts in baseball analysis, but I hope you don’t have to go too far up the chain before somebody does.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
I suppose.
But I’m of the opinion that simply using freely available information is enough for a spirited discussion among fans… but not enough info to make a decision that has impact on an organization.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
The level of informaiton we have in certain areas
is pretty damn good for fans. I’m not saying you go out making a decision based just on 2 years worth of UZR, but I think the information there could be fairly helpful.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:31 PM CST up reply actions
Absolutely.
But I used the word “solely”. I would want validation through additional sources.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
If I were a GM,
I would sign all guys who hit a lot of HR’s. We would be unstoppable!!!
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 11, 2012 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
At what point do teams reach a point of diminishing marginal returns?
And I’m talking in terms of holistic player evaluations, not, say, data compilations that players and coaches can use to refine their tactical approach in a game environment.
There are only so many ways to slice an dice the raw data, right? And the more granular you get, the more likely you’re going to engaged in a useless naval-gazing exercise, it seems to me.
Someone explain to me how teams gain a competitive edge over their opponents by manipulating the same data in a new (and reliable) way.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Well after the data made available by free websites like FanGraphs and Baseball Reference.
It’s why HitFX and FieldFX aren’t made available.
The splits provided by the free sites are pretty minimal… obviously you slice too deep and it’s meaningless.
But on Fangraphs you can see how often a swings at pitches out of the zone. What if you want to know how often those pitches are sliders? Or from left handed pitchers?
Fangraphs and B-Ref are great. Love them. But I sure as shit wouldn’t run an organization off that as my main data source.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
All good points.
I guess my question is who are FO’s going to derive instrumental value from deep slicing the data (or, at least, slicing the data deeper than FanGraphs does)? Are we talking in terms of player evaluation, tactical advantage in a game environment, or both?
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
who = how*
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Both.
I would expect it to be heavily tilted to player evaluation… yours and others. And that’s important for determining value for acquisition… and strategy on how to pitch or align fielders or approach at the plate.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I think we know that the Rangers, Red Sox and Rays
all use it for tactical advantage.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
I think Joe Pos or Keith Law addressed this a year or two ago.
While it’s true that going from BA → OBP → OPS → wOBA has resulted in diminishing gains, I don’t think we’re at the point yet of diminishing returns. I think that there is still room for a few leap forwards in baseball analysis…it’s just that we need better data acquisition first [well, fans do, I don’t know about teams]. Having access to things like Hit F/X and a UZR-type system based off of that data [that actually had, you know, reliable data] would be leaps forward.
That’s why I said it’s the concepts that I’m concerned that my GM knows and keep abreast of.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:30 PM CST up reply actions
Here's what we do.
You invent the cure for cancer and become a billionaire. Buy a team and hire several of us and we’ll do it proper.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Like we'd ever get anything done.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:36 PM CST up reply actions
Can I be the manager?
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 11, 2012 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
It won't be Ron Washington.
In part because he’ll probably ride off in a blaze of glory long before I can even dream of having enough money to buy the Rangers.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
Not least because wOBA has some of the same problems as UZR.
Not as pronounced, but similar issues — which Hitf/x and Fieldf/x will probably address.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
Much different level though.
I have more confidence in wOBA than UZR.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
/RBoE rant
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Wut.
I have no doubt that the stat-savvy ones do. LSB had a link to Jim Bowden interviewing GMs around the game and Theo Epstein said Boston had a system called CARMINE (Bowden interjects “She sounds hot”).
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
x
Comment From Pras
For the next 3 years, would you rather have CJ Wilson and Albert Pujols or Yu Darvish and Prince Fielder?
12:30
Dave Cameron:
The Angels pair.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
I think I like Yu/Prince there
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 11, 2012 11:34 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
The M's just wish they had a chance at a pair.
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
I see what you did there.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
And Pujols.
For the next three years Pujols is probably still Pujols.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Yeah,
I wish I had said 5. Oh well.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
Also...
As much as I love Cameron (and I do).
His opinion on Darvish isn’t worth much to me. I don’t think he has the sources or the scouting to have any real idea what Darvish will be.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Honestly,
I was hoping to see him react to the Yu/Fielder idea.
He doesn’t think Fielder will sign for 5 years, either, btw.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think anyone could possibly think that.
There’s very little historical occurrences of any star player turning down a ton of money to play somewhere as a FA. It happens… but so rarely that you can never ever expect it will again.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Yeah, that's why I'm skeptical.
By the way, I hate all of y’all for making me think about this like a realistic possibility.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
As I was driving home last night from work...
I realized that while I am not a fan of rap music (don’t hate it… just not my thing) it’s really the appropriate medium to find the necessary expression of FUCK YOU AMERICAN LEAGUE of us signing Darvish and Fielder.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I see you driving 'round town with the girl I dumped and I'm like
Got YU
so fuck you, too
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
I asked Cameron
“What’s your expectation from Darvish and what’s the basis of that expectation?” about 20 min ago.
We’ll see if I get in.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
zimmerman said he expected 3 WAR/year in one of the chats yesterday
compared him to colby lewis for some reason
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
Darvish was much much much better than Colby in Japan...
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Non-evidence-based Cameron
needs to be consumed with a heavy shaker of salt, no?
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
Pujols isn't even Pujols anymore
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
What WAR do you expect out of him in 2012?
by VM on Jan 11, 2012 12:29 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
For a realistic ceiling
I’d say that the Angels realistically could hope for him to repeat last year as being a 5+ WAR player at best. If I had to guess, I’d say he’d be a bit worse than last year overall and I’d be pretty surprised if he was significantly better or worse. I think he’s pretty much on the decline right now at 32 years old (or maybe he’s even older) so expecting him to be the dominant player he was a few years ago would be setting yourself up for disappointment. At the same time, he’s just too good to really fall off a cliff right away so I think it will be a pretty smooth decline unless he finally gets hit with the injury bug that causes him to miss time.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
I think you're discounting the injury.
I think he’s still a true talent 6+ WAR guy.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:27 PM CST up reply actions
I might be
A huge reason for his drop off last year was the drop in walks, which included a large chunk of intentional walks he wasn’t getting last year. Maybe I should give some more benefit that it was just teams noticing that he was hurt, but at the same time, its tough to discount the added year of wear and tear on that body and assuming that he won’t run into any injury issues this year too.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
I'm not sure.
I don’t think he has the ceiling he once had, but he still projects to be quite good. Better than last year.
Projects better than Prince next year, too.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
This is a no doubter to me.
Right now you’d be insane to want Darvish/Fielder if the lense is only set to 3 years.
It would not surprise me at all
if in just looking at 2014, the Yu+Prince combo is better. I also am still not buying that the Rangers are really in on both.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:26 PM CST up reply actions
The only thing I can say for certain is that in 2014 the Yu+Prince combo will be younger
If I had to make a wager on who’d perform better in 2014 I’d choose Pujols/Wilson. Darvish is a huge unknown. That and Pujols is a god.
Darvish isn't THAT unkown.
How he will do in 2012 is subject to a lot of variance and just because projections based on correlations and adjusted data say he should be good doesn’t mean it will translate, but I wish people would stop acting like he’s been pitching on the dark side of the moon.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:34 PM CST up reply actions
NEVER BEEN IN THE SHOW
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I have high hopes for Darvish
But I don’t think it is guaranteed that he’ll be better than CJ Wilson in any of the next 3 years. I don’t see why anyone would feel that way.
CJ will likely be declining by that point?
And I’m not convinced he’s a true talent 5+ WAR pitcher?
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
tough decision between moving Feliz or Ogando to the pen
on second thought, maybe trading Colby would be the better move. They could use a RH hitting OF and backup SS. How much value does Colby have?
With the number of contrarian dicks we have around here
Kinda shocked not a single vote has gone to Holland yet.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
would any of these guys make the 2012 rotation?
your Texas Rangers 2006 SPs.
Millwood 34 starts
Padilla 33
Koronka 24
Loe 15
Tejeda 14
Rheinecker 21
Eaton 13
Volquez 8
Wasdin 5
Wells 2
Bauer 1
Dickey 1
Highlight of my life-
Catching a foul ball thrown by Dickey and hit by Torii Hunter. I haven’t accomplished much.
I read that as "peeing an onion"
That had to hurt.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." -- Rogers Hornsby
by CrustytheCowboy on Jan 11, 2012 6:46 PM CST up reply actions
I think he meant 2006 versions of the pitchers, but I could be mistaken
and I think 2006 Millwood wouldn’t even beat out 2011 Feldman.
Who the hell is Bauer? Hank Bauer?
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
Rick Bauer
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Heh
Defending Big D Check it out
Twitter
"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
Probably Millwood.
Eaton was hurt.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 11, 2012 1:18 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not sure any would even crack the big league roster.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
I voted Feliz
Assuming everyone else is healthy and no one is traded, I think he should begin the year in the AAA rotation.
Yep, but it would probably be best for Feliz long-term and the team short-term...
for him to start the season at RR and build up/readjust to being a starter.
LOOGY
If we don’t resign Gonzales, are we left with Kirkman?
by Jetske22 on Jan 11, 2012 12:38 PM CST via mobile reply actions
We're going to re-sign Gonzalez.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
i trade whoever gives you the most relative value
if you can get an A level position prospect for Holland or Harry (clearly you want more for Dutch ) then bye. A solid guy and a flyer for Lewis then bye. An interesting OF contributor and some prospects for Ogando.
Basically i would trade whoever someone wanta overpay for. and from those four guys someone will overpay for one
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
by JBImaknee on Jan 11, 2012 12:49 PM CST via Android app reply actions
I voted for Ogando,
but if he develops a reliable third pitch in the near future, I’d be in favor of him moving into the rotation.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." -- Rogers Hornsby
by CrustytheCowboy on Jan 11, 2012 1:29 PM CST reply actions
Deal Colby...
and keep all the good young arms under team control for a few more years in the rotation.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
If you have info...
that he’s not healthy you probably won’t be able to deal him.
I just see Colby as superfluous at this point. He’s only got 1 year left on his deal, and I think Feldman can give you close to what Lewis can. I’m not as convinced as others that Colby’s struggles, especially the HR ball, are because of injury. I know a lot of people are probably in love with his veteraness and post-season performance, but he’s the one I’d try to move.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
You think Feldman's a good bet to give you close to 200 innings and 170+ k's?
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
12 votes for Yu? Why?
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
Probably indicate they don't support the acquisition.
Rather than wanting him in the bullpen.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
More likely stupidity and/or trolls.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
x
JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman
do think long-awaited fieder deal may wait ’til after #rangers/darvish are done negotiating. texas a team of interest here
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
How much of this is just writers trying to find a reason why the Fielder market hasn't developed and the delay in the Rangers/Yu negotiations being the only discernible reason?
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
A good question.
I think he’s probably right in this instance, though.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
I'm firmly in the camp that believes the Rangers have heavily influenced this.
By telling fielder’s agent that they’ll negotiate if they don’t sign Darvish.
... or that they won't negotiate until after they've completed the Darvish contract.
/finger-crossing optimist
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
i agree with this.
do you think the nationals have actually made an offer?
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 11, 2012 4:29 PM CST up reply actions
I voted Ogando, as did the overwhelming majority it seems
Don’t feel like I need to explain my vote either.
More like 6 pitchers, 1 cup...amirite?
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
wouldn't mind seeing Feliz start out the year in AAA, maybe come up in May
since an injury will probably present itself at some point. if we’ve got 6 healthy guys going into July, then maybe you trade Colby if he’s having a good year. I’m reluctant to trade Harrison unless we get a great return because I’m bullish on him after how he finished the year… not too many lefties that can throw like that.
No, I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.
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Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Get a grip: Reds’ Todd Frazier loses bat, still connects for home run (Video)
- Eric Hosmer redefines the Baltimore chop with infield double (Video)
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
