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Adam J. Morris
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"It gets a bit trickier after 2012."
Good to see he’s thought this one through.
by LiamP on Jan 13, 2012 11:26 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Good answer
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 13, 2012 11:49 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
He's making a pretty big assumption that Darvish will get something like an 80 million dollar contract
Its not impossible, but its tough to see him getting that much money.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
hmm
never producing fewer than 2.1 of Baseball Reference’s wins above replacement (while averaging 4.0 WAR).
I don’t think this person really understands WAR
Fielder and Washington
Is there another team credibly willing to give him 7 years?
Why doesn’t anyone mention Florida? And how is SF not in?
Gah if Texas could get him on a rich 4-year deal, wowow. I know it won’t happen.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Jan 13, 2012 11:57 AM CST reply actions
I don't see why Fielder would sign a 4 year deal
Seems like it is 7+ or 1 year deal. Why would he give away his prime to go back into FA when he might potentially be on the downside?
no
I’d like him for a few years. 1 yr is just a stopgap. If you are going to sign fielder you do it for more than 1 year.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Right.
I am wondering what the chances might be that Fielder signs a “pillow deal.” Seems more and more likely each passing day, doesn’t it?
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
Did Boras coin this "pillow deal" term?
First I heard it was with Madon.
It tickles me for some reason.
by VM on Jan 13, 2012 4:00 PM CST up reply actions
Well, they're probably feather pillows, so that explains the tickling.
I have no idea if Boras coined the term — I hadn’t heard it before, either, I don’t think.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
They have mentioned Florida as saying they're not interested in him at his asking price or length
It was on MLBTR somewhere yesterday I think.
Boras won't let it happen.
Prince is having a tough time getting a long deal at age 27…that weight is a ticking bomb.
No way he takes less than 5 years.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Give me a deal you'd be comfortable with for a 27 year old Prince.
For example… let’s say the very very very very unlikely happens and he agrees to a 5 year / $110M deal.
Do you like or dislike that deal?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Incidentally
How hard would it be to imagine a world in which Boras delivers right-hander Edwin Jackson — a steady workhorse — to the Rangers as part of a package deal with Fielder?
Does anybody believe this actually happens? I can’t ever remember an agent packaging free agents like this – certainly not overtly. But it would seem like agents would want to stay away from the perception that he links his clients’ fates with those of his other clients.
Jackson
He’s awfully hittable- his WHIP last season (right in line with his career) would have been far and away the worst on the club.
"Those cocksuckers asking me if I thought we were gonna go up there and try to work his fuckin’ pitch count ‘cause he’s on three fuckin’ days rest…you know what I told those cocksuckers? He pitch ball, ball cross plate, we gonna knock the shit out of it."
- Wash
I'd guess the Rangers' defense would help him out, some, especially if he coaxes ground balls.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
I don't know what you would call agent's tampering in baseball,
but if the owners pulled s similar stunt it would be tampering. How can an agent take a percentage of a big contract, and legally offer a discount on another contract? I’m sure somebody’s front office would be doing some legal research on that agent’s behavior.
Actually it could be to the advantage of a team...
To get a package deal. But other players, the union, and other teams might pipe in and say, “That’s not fair!”
Ramirez suspended and "retired"
Damon below average DH.
The package part I think was one wouldn’t sign without the other and they were marketed I think as one complete player from a platoon standpoint…
Packaging happens in the film business all the time, but that is a quite different situation.
If I were an athlete, I’d feel there was a conflict except in very special circumstances.
That was terrible
How anyone could look at the 1B situation and think it’s only about Moreland vs. Fielder is beyond me. It’s about Moreland splitting time with Young and Napoli and having the DH position being flexible for Young, Naps and Hamilton.
Is Fielder better than Darvish + Moreland + the DH/1B flexibility of Young, Naps and Hamilton? Even if you believe Fielder added to this team is better than Darvish, is he enough better to justify the AAV of $20+ million over 8-10 years? I have my doubts. Sign Fielder and you have to sell low on Moreland and lose a lot of flexibility at 1B/DH and less depth at SP. Sign Darvish and you retain your flexibility at 1B/DH, you have more options with pitching (including moving Ogando to the rotation or making a trade) and Moreland gets to show it was health and not inadequacy in the 2nd half of 2011.
And who the hell cares about the posting fee when it comes to payroll and money in a single year? Does he not think the very wealthy and financially astute men who own the team might somehow be able to amortize that? How unimaginative.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Expenses can't be amortized AFAIK
If it was an “investment” it might be able to be amortized through the life of the contract. I guess it just depends what the IRS will let you get away with.
Being businessmen, assuming they don’t front the cash year one, they’d just take out a loan for $50m + x% interest, assuming they thought the posting fee would increase the amount of cash generated by the rangers by $50m +x% interest +y% discount rate over the life of the contract.
by macromorgan on Jan 13, 2012 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
Loans are exactly what I was getting at
You are writing off an expense over time. It doesn’t count towards ML payroll, so it only matters to the owners themselves how they choose to pay for it. It matters not at all for 2012 payroll since they can spread out the payments however they like.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
hit post too soon
and that is my criticism of that point in the article, this guy imagines billionaires don’t know how to take out a loan.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
According to Maury Brown, at least part of the posting fee could be written off.
So there’s that.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
Given how little most media types seem to know about the posting fee details,
I’m not surprised that the Darvish deal is almost always written about as if all the money is part of his player’s contract — that is, if he signs for $60 million over 5 years, it’ll be the equivalent of a 5-year, 110M deal. Maybe that’s actually true, but I haven’t seen it substantiated anywhere, and Brown certainly makes it sound as if it wouldn’t work that way.
Which would make all of the, “would you rather have CJ Wilson at 5 years, $75M or Darvish at 5 years, $110M” talk somewhat misleading.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
That's why I read LSB
Very few in the press are going to address this issue. I have a tendency to think of a one time post and a separate contract negotiation. To my thinking it is kind of like a signing bonus, but in the NFL signing bonuses are counted as the length of the contract. So if Maury gives us some addtional knowledge, I’ve learned something. Somebody, whether Maury or Adam will come up with some accurate tidbit of information.
I had a dream with Yu in it last night.
He was in town and for some reason Nolan thought it would be a good idea for the two of us to hang out. So Yu and I hung Christmas lights and ate Sonic together. He decided to go ahead and sign because he thought I was such a cool guy.
That’s really weird and I know it. I’ll be happy when something happens so I can stop obsessing over this thing.
by elchicodelgado on Jan 13, 2012 12:45 PM CST reply actions
I think it would be a great Sonic commercial.
As good as Prince Fielder would've looked in a 4XL Rangers' uniform, we all know you win with pitching. -- JJT
The truth about MLers from a MLer, Todd Coffey:
"In my heart of hearts, if it's the right contract, I would look to definitely come back to the Nationals."
by rooster on Jan 13, 2012 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Its too risky
to not sign Darvish with the intention of signing Fielder. If the Ranger’s fail to sign Darvish, it is going to be painfully obvious what their next move is going to be. The Rangers are going to have no hand in that negotiation. Boras will know the Rangers need to sign Fielder and Boras will have all the hand. If the price gets to a point that the Rangers aren’t comfortable with and they fail to sign Fielder, the off-season would be a monumental failure.
Go Rangers! Go Cowboys! Go FSU!
Very curious
to understand why media & fans expect Texas to pursue Fielder were Darvish not to sign.
Is the only successful off-season one in which money must be spent to higher extremes?
IMO, Texas has made it’s decision regarding the 1st-base position & I don’t see Darvish changing that in any way. It just wouldn’t be a smart move to chase Fielder & sign him to a contract of that size & expect an increase in production at 1st-base equal to the money spent. No need.
I'm curious to know if you have killed 5 hookers at SMU
by Dirk Diggler on Jan 13, 2012 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Sure after the first five.
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
I think Meyers had a decent point buried in his stupidity.
In that his entire articles assumes you pay Darvish exactly what he asks for.
The point that the Rangers have more leverage and should walk away from Darvish if they don’t feel the price is right is correct.
If Darvish is dead set on $18 to $20M per year… then I would rather have him walk away than pay that and the posting fee.
I’m not worried about that happening.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
$75M is the decision point.
Above that and I think the Rangers pass, and they should. Grab Oswalt for a 1 year contract as a security blanket and roll with what we have. If the team gets better because of improvements in the younger players, that should show up in the first half of the season. If we are in contention but need to fill holes, get someone at the trade deadline and roll into the playoffs.
Good Cameron article on Roy today
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/roy-oswalt-potential-steal/
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
Probably a fantasy
but the Rangers should be in on Oswalt. I also believe they should be looking to put Harrison/Ogando or both in a trade for a Hernandez or Kershaw. Obviously much more would have to be included but it would be nice. Okay back to dreaming…
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
by Michael Cave on Jan 13, 2012 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
I don't want Oswalt unless they are convinced his back isn't an issue.
And he’s unbelievably cheap.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I read he wants $8M per
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
$5M or less.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
OK.
So if Oswalt was willing to sign with Texas for 1 year and $7.5M, you’d be out?
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
Yes.
But I am extraordinarily wary of Oswalt because of his back issues.
I also don’t want to take innings from one of our high variance cheap young guys for him unless it’s a crazy deal you can’t say no to.
I think 1 year / $7.5M is what whatever team finally signs him gets him for… or close to it.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Ok, not sure I follow your logic:
Without Oswalt, and assuming they sign Darvish, the rotation is most likely:
Darvish
Feliz
Harrison
Holland
Lewis
If the Rangers somehow sign Oswalt to a 1-year, $5M deal, what do you do? And why does $2.5M in one year make a difference to you, in terms of doing that?
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
Good point.
There is no price I’d sign him for… because if he would actually agree to $5M then I know that he knows he’s done too.
I have negative interest in Oswalt.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Heh.
I’m not sure how I feel about it.
On the one hand, signing him relatively cheaply could make a good-value trade more possible. On the other, I’m not sure that trade is out there, and… yeah, logistically, I just don’t see how it works.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
Sign Oswalt, put him in the pen.
Then we’ll convert him to a starter in a year or two.
by VM on Jan 13, 2012 4:04 PM CST up reply actions
Ogando is a good candidate
to swing between the rotation and the pen. Oswalt could prove his value in the first half. It could be good insurance if the younger pitchers have hiccups and do not improve upon last year and Oswalt works out. If we have any pitcher in the rotation that does not work out we use Ogando like we did last year when he filled in for Hunter.
Yeah...
It’s a fine point to make that at some point Yu Darvish becomes too expensive. But I don’t think the Rangers are going to get there (at least not overly so, obviously Darvish is going to be quite a large investment). But, this article is pretty much just, “Hey, they can just throw money at other people! Options!”
Nevertheless, articles like this actually help the Rangers sign Darvish so it’s all good.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jan 13, 2012 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
Is there something inherently flawed with the posting system
Theoretically couldn’t the angels (or any team) have posted 85 million for Darvish with no intention of signing him? And then he goes back to Japan for a year and no other team gets the benefit of him. I assume there’s something I’m missing in this process
by texasrangerfan on Jan 13, 2012 2:45 PM CST via mobile reply actions
It's been discussed before.
If the offer was an obvious low-ball, there would probably be punitive measures for negotiating in bad faith. There were rumors that the A’s did this last year with Iwakuma, but nothing much came of it, at least publicly. It’s possible the A’s were warned, I guess, or some others step were taken.
But it’s hard to believe that on a high-profile player like Darvish, an MLB club would risk both its reputation and its future signing abilities just to block him from signing for a year.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
It's possible, but you'd also have to have $85 million on hand to set aside while the negotiations
(or lack thereof) are going on.
I seriously doubt that would be a problem for most club owners.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
Here we go! Time for "Hotel Tracker 2012" LOL
@BNightengale
Bob Nightengale
Breaking: The Texas #Rangers are meeting today with Prince Fielder at Dallas-area hotel. Stay tuned #mlb
Josh Hamilton doesn't daydream. He's too busy giving the Yankees nightmares.--- Josh Hamilton Facts.
im downtown dallas!!!!!!!!!
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 13, 2012 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
FIND HIM!
He is not hard to find I would think?
Josh Hamilton doesn't daydream. He's too busy giving the Yankees nightmares.--- Josh Hamilton Facts.
by Clutch Smurf on Jan 13, 2012 3:07 PM CST up reply actions
Get the LSB spotters out there!
Didn’t they spot a jet heading to Arkansas last year that somehow turned around because the surprise was broken?
bigsteves finest hour.
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
by boomer1 on Jan 13, 2012 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Team in meeting with free agent shocker.
by LiamP on Jan 13, 2012 3:13 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
THIS JUST IN: RANGERS MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN EXTENDING ALL OF THEIR PLAYERS.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
Well if Norm was correct this morning
Saying that the Yu deal was done this makes some sense.
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
Team in meeting with a free agent they have publicly said they have no interest in for 3 months.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Front office misleads, shocker.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
THIS JUST IN: RANGERS NOT *REALLY* INTERESTED IN EXTENDING *ALL* THEIR PLAYERS.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
by Snark on Jan 13, 2012 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Why can't they do more than one thing at a time?!
by ghostofErikThompson on Jan 13, 2012 3:45 PM CST up reply actions
THE RANGERS AREN'T REALLY DOING ANYTHING.
I AM SO ANGRY.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
THIS JUST IN: RANGERS FALL DOWN WHILE WALKING AND CHEWING GUM.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
FAIL TO EXTEND GUM
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
x
@JeffWilson_FWST: Source confirms #Rangers meeting with Prince Fielder, but suggests the first baseman is Plan B if Yu Darvish doesn’t sign.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
THIS JUST IN: JEFF WILSON CAN'T BELIEVE IT'S NOT YOGURT.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
Matthew @ LOL on opt outs
And, while over there, they also have a “Rangers meeting with Prince Fielder” thread.
Play nice.
phineasd raises good points.
I’m sort of surprised Matthew simplified this as much as he did.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
Also:
Dave Cameron’s piece on the same topic (the one I think phineasd is referencing) is worth a read, if you’re interested in the detailed stuff. Plus, less snarky!
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
Darvish
I think he will sign, but having it get out that we are meeting with Fielder and have interest in Oswalt certainly gives the Rangers additional leverage (and they have almost all the leverage to begin with).
If there was choice between signing Darvish or signing Fielder and Oswalt (on a one-year deal), I not sure which I would choose. For 2012, I think the Fielder/Oswalt option is most likely better. I’m not nearly as confident of that in 2014, 2015 and 2106.
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