Yu Darvish v. C.J. Wilson -- A Poll
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 19, 2012 12:12 PM CST
Email
PrintThe Rangers' 2011 #1 starter, C.J. Wilson, signed with the Los Angeles Angels for 5 years, $77.5 million.
The Rangers seemingly had minimal interest in retaining him, and instead have chosen to spend $111.7 million over 6 years for Yu Darvish to be the team's #1 starter.
It is obviously a pretty gutsy decision to spend more on the unproven guy than on the pitcher who you know and who has had success in your very hitter-friendly environment, and I'm not convinced the Rangers made the right decision here.
But let's take a poll on the issue...assuming, for the sake of discussion, the Rangers could afford to sign either Darvish (for 6 years at $111.7 million) or Wilson (for 5 years at $77.5 million), which one would you have picked? Or would have passed on both, thinking both wanted more money than was reasonable for too many years?
Cast your vote below...
734 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Haha wow
that’s quite a difference…I thought maybe there would have been a few more people in favor of CJ for cheaper
I was sad about losing CJ, only because we couldn't guarantee Yu, and CJ was had a reasonable cost
In retrospect, I’d much rather have Yu, now that we have him. The risk of ending up with neither is what worried me.
Door Number Three
…would have been Prince Fielder. We could, conceivably, still get Prince, too.
Still, Yu’s delivery is easy and efficient. CJ was choppy and he jumped at the hitter with his “shotput” delivery.
You has a good idea how to pitch and is not afraid to go into the strike zone. CJ bulldogged his way and often seemed like he didn’t have a clue why he wasn’t succeeding. He also worked way too hard for the success he did have.
Yu is used to the limelight and glory… CJ’s still trying to prove he is a ML pitcher.
I think we made the right choice…
Never tho’t the difference among the fans would be that stark, tho.
If at first you don't succeed, try the outfield! -- Ed
I don't think C.J. is trying to prove he's a ML pitcher...
He may still be trying to prove he’s a top of the rotation pitcher… but I think he’s pretty well established he’s an ML pitcher.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
To everyone else...
…but, does CJ really believe that… ?
If at first you don't succeed, try the outfield! -- Ed
Well... I don't think he goes to work every day
And thinks it’s the Pacific Coast League.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I don't disagree...
…my point is that CJ never had it easy… nothing was given to him. I’m fairly sure the differences in “egos” between Yu and CJ will be the difference in Champions and Really Good Guys.
If at first you don't succeed, try the outfield! -- Ed
Age and upside..
Sabermetrically speaking, I think last year will be CJs peak. I’m sure his ERA will be lower on the left coast, but I just don’t see his walks going down at all, nor his Ks being higher than they were. Imagine the same schedule in a better pitching enviornment, but facing our lineup instead of the Angels lineup 4-8 times a year.
Love(d) Ceej, but I could see Darvish and CJ having similar years this year and then Darvish being much better every year after.
by Rossome on Jan 19, 2012 12:20 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
It's not like he's moving divisions,
his ‘strength of schedule’, as it were, is going to be almost exactly the same.
I can see his walk rate going back up [though matchst1ck had a great post about this here on LSB], but given that he’s only been a starting pitcher for 2 years, it wouldn’t shock me if he improves in other areas to stay a pretty darn good pitcher over the next 2-3 years.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe
…he’s talking about the cool night air on the west coast.
by Black Francis on Jan 19, 2012 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
Scioscia
CJ will be in a great pitcher’s environment. Question is, will he get enough offense behind him for him to be successful?
Napoli left and became a slugging S.T.U.D.
GMJ, Torii and The Vern got there and immediately went into the tank. I’m sure Pujols’ numbers won’t be what they were in St. Louis and will progressively get worse. Especially if Hatcher stays on as their “hitting” coach.
If at first you don't succeed, try the outfield! -- Ed
That's because those 3 hitters were overrated.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 4:13 PM CST up reply actions
Torii? Vernon?
Not sure “overrated” would apply. Both have histories of clutch performance and offensive leadership. GMJ may have been a fluke/one-time wonder, but the other two were guys we really wanted, too.
If at first you don't succeed, try the outfield! -- Ed
Clutch. Leadership.
Indeed… these are the buzzwords of those who are overrated.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Vernon was not good when he was traded,....he was terrible and still is
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
Vernon Wells was laughably bad his last two years in Toronto
but managed to get his HR’s up his last year. His decline was predictable.
GMJ was pretty overrated.
This should be a no-brainer
Darvish is younger and has good control over his pitches. He could already be as good as CJ and could get better.
Even if what you said is true
you are already paying more for Darvish AAV. I don’t see how it is an easy decision.
$3.1 million AAV difference isn't all that hard to make up performance-wise.
Especially when considered they’d be his peak years.
I don't think it's a no-brainer at all.
In fact, I can’t decide. CJ is worth more than he got.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed. I think these results would be different if the poll was done in November.
Everyone is excited about Darvish now.
by VM on Jan 19, 2012 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
CJ could have gotten more than he got
But I don’t know that he’ll be worth more than 75 million over the length of his contract.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
You don't think he'll be a 3WAR/yr pitcher???
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:08 PM CST up reply actions
Probably
I just don’t know that $5 million is worth 1 win over a replacement player.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
I think we as fans often struggle with inflation in the market,
especially given how flat it was for a few years.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:11 PM CST up reply actions
What will $/WAR be if the inflation prophets of doom are right?
I’m sure JD has been buying up gold and nickels just in case…. The next market inefficiency…
by VM on Jan 19, 2012 1:12 PM CST up reply actions
$/WAR is a fairly controversial topic around here.
And I am one of the people who has attacked it in the past. However, it’s kind of like that quote about Democracy [’it’s the worst system except for all of the other systems’], so I/we use it making sure to note the caveats.
As a general rule of thumb, I prefer to discount future value gained by inflation and chalk that up to the cost of the risk of signing a player to a guaranteed x-year contract.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:14 PM CST up reply actions
Cameron and others offhandedly use 5% inflation.
Now, I realize you have to do something. Tango would say, “you don’t like 5%, fine. Pick a number you like.”
The problem, though, is that I don’t have a lot of confidence in any number. Nate Silver has written about how generally poor expert prediction is. I think his upcoming book will deal in part with this issue.
We’re not very good at predicting the likelihood of cataclysmic events – i.e. economists largely failing to foresee the subprime crisis.
[As a side note about the frailty of expert opinion, did you know that HALF of all standard of care practices in the healthcare world are overturned within 5 years? That’s a big friggin’ problem.]
by VM on Jan 19, 2012 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
This should be fun. I'll go in reverse order:
Do you have a reference for this? In general, I like how relatively plastic the medical field is when it comes to adjusting to new information or new technology. The downside to this is that sometimes there will be missteps instead of steps forward, but I prefer that, in general, to ignoring new information entirely. One of the difficulties in healthcare is how vast the sum of new information is every year.
I’ve read a bit of Silver’s and other’s thoughts on this. It certainly is very interesting [and leads you to forms of crowdsourcing]. An interesting parallel to the cataclysmic event prediction issue is that when you go and look at the people who actually did predict this, they are often amongst the worst predictors overall, often because they are too often predicting cataclysmic events. [trying to avoid getting too political here, but I feel like this is why Ron Paul is so popular right now]
Yes, 5% inflation has been the norm over the past decade, I believe, outside of a window around the market crash where salaries where inflation was flat for 2 (?) years.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:32 PM CST up reply actions
K...
Healthcare thing was in an NPR interview with Groopman/Hartzman I heard while driving in September. I wouldn’t swear by the five year/half figure… but it was alarmingly high. Link here.
The troubling thing is that you can’t really predict cataclysmic events very well, of course. And for some reason we don’t really believe that catastrophe is going to happen… like with the levies in New Orleans – correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that the Army Corps of Engineers knew they needed to be repaired, but the political will simply wasn’t there…. I don’t think people were properly understanding the chance of (and scale) disaster.
Also, in recent years, there have been a few people who have made a lot of money taking advantage of the failure of our markets to properly price the risk of catastrophe. Examples include those listed in The Big Short (like Cornwall Capita). Or Kyle Bass from Lewis’ new book, Boomerang…
Now, we have to plan for the future, as individuals and as a society. And I’m not proposing that there is a better way… Rather, that perhaps we should be a little more leery of our predictions…
Another science-related afterthought… Did you read the New Yorker piece on the decline effect?
And Nate Silver linked this a few weeks ago… “Why Most Published Research Findings Are False”
by VM on Jan 19, 2012 1:46 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks for the links.
I’m just starting to peruse them, but I can speak to some of the issues in the health care field.
One of the largest changes over the past 10 years or so is a focus on how treatments affect long-term measures that actually matter to the patient. So, for example, certain drugs have proven effective at lowering cholesterol levels…but, counter-intuitively, not very good at actually preventing cardiovascular disease. I don’t view this as a failure of the medical system so much as I do a very good and necessary evolving of it.
Why should patients care about lowering or raising a number if it doesn’t actually result in a positive benefit?
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:00 PM CST up reply actions
forgive me,
but what does<3 mean?
My guess is that PLoS is that PLoS is not a good source (I’d never encountered it prior to Silver’s link).
Incidentally, here is the Silver piece on the Hubris of Experts.. Worth a read.
I found that Decline Effect piece to be particularly sobering..
by VM on Jan 19, 2012 2:13 PM CST up reply actions
No, <3 is a heart.
And I love it. It stands for Public Library of Science and it’s a newer collection of scientific journals [like JAMA, New England Journal of Medicine, Science, and Nature – though not quite that high of an impact] that I enjoy.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:15 PM CST up reply actions
I would've been disappointed if Silver had been backing up his point
with a trash journal or something…
by VM on Jan 19, 2012 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
<3 = a heart.
It means love.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
And has it's own branches,
yeah, I know.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:18 PM CST up reply actions
Well if we look at the market
There aren’t many guys making more than CJ. There might be something like 10 guys making more than 75 million. He’s not going to be the last SP making 75+ million, but I don’t think that number goes well above 10 in the next few years. There just aren’t going to be that many good names hitting the market. So while I can’t put a number on it, the way I look at his value is if he’s going to be a ~top 10 pitcher while being a top 10 salary guy.
As a side discussion, that $5 million/WAR number is for players in general, right? Has any research been done in $/WAR values for specific positions?
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
But some of the pitchers who are as good or better than CJ are still under team control.
And others (like Weaver) have signed extensions pre-FA. So just because there aren’t a lot of pitchers making $75m doesn’t mean he’s not worth that.
by VM on Jan 19, 2012 1:27 PM CST up reply actions
That's part of the system though
And its why so many teams let talented players walk after their 6 years of service time. When you can get something like 2 WAR for 500k, you’re not going to be eager to pay 15 million for 3.5-4 WAR. Also, the $5 million value I think comes from free agency dollars spent, but I’m really not sure about that.
My biggest complaint about the WAR money value though is that there is no cap set. A player is worth what a team is willing to pay when you’re talking about one of the ways to define value. If you have a 5+ WAR season, no team is going to sign you to a contract paying anywhere near the $35+ million you’re “worth”.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
But now you're confounding your system.
Those guys aren’t freely available. The Rangers just can’t walk up to Michael Pineda and offer him $600K a year and sign him. They would have to give up players of significant value to get him.
I understand that complaint, but getting into creates other issues.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
Also,
I think it’s important to realize that when FA contracts are signed, they often fall into a category where the player provides excess value early on but is then ‘paid back’ for it at the end of the contract.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
Yes. You have to look at the total value provided versus the cost.
complaining about overpaying on the backend while ignoring the surplus you got on the front end is ignorant.
by VM on Jan 19, 2012 1:49 PM CST up reply actions
This is absolutely horrific logic.
You’re assuming salary accurately reflects value when most pitchers are not on contracts signed through free agency.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
Like I mentioned above
that needs to be taken into account when just assuming that 1 WAR is worth 5 million. That gives you a linear relationship between WAR and dollars, but its horribly inaccurate. Would you consider it a good thing if the Rangers signed a 2 WAR player for 10 million or even something like 8 million a year. I doubt it. The reality is that there’s a threshold where each team is willing to pay a lot more for that extra WAR.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
You don't have to argue with me
that linear $/WAR is a bad idea. JBI and I have gone back and forth about why this is a bad idea seemingly ad nauseum.
The issue though, which I referenced above, is that trying to create a $/WAR that more accurately reflects the player pool results is very difficult to do (assuming you don’t want to end up with Pujols being valued at 9 figures…annually).
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:43 PM CST up reply actions
I completely agree with your last point
Like you said in that other post, the democracy quote really applies well here. I don’t know a better system, but I do know that I don’t like this system.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
I tried. Trust me.
It’s what the basis of this piece was about:
http://www.bbtia.com/home/2011/2/24/the-crucible.html
I figured you couldn’t start to see what a player was worth in terms of dollars until you figured out what they were worth relative to each other. I was pleasantly surprised with that finding, but it made taking the next step very, very difficult.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
Until a better system is found
I’m not going to try and place an exact value on players and instead just follow some basic rules of thumb. Like if you’re getting 1+ WAR from a player making the minimum, that’s good value. If you’re getting paid like a top 5 (or w/e number) player at that position (something like top 15ish for pitchers) and you’re not close to being that good, then you’re not getting good value.
This way, we can keep having these discussions until someone figures out a way to monetize WAR in a better way.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Yes,
I also support using it only in a general way.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:15 PM CST up reply actions
Its not a good one
He’s a >2 WAR player who will be getting paid 7 million a year.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Do a quick exercise.
Assume every single pitcher in baseball is a free agent right now.
How many of them get $75M or more guaranteed?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Tough exercise since its such an impossibity to happen
Using MLB’s total payroll though and just averaging it for each team, teams would have an average of 76+ million to work with on a yearly basis. So its tough for me to see there being more than maybe 15-20 $75+ million dollar contracts.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Okay...
Different exercise… how many would get $75M if they were on the market right now… but not a flooded market.
So let’s say everything else about the universe is the same… but Clayton Kershaw is now a free agent.
How many if made free like that would get $75M? Kershaw certainly would… but he made 400K last year.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
This will get you closer to the answer
but still just difficult to do since we very seldom get to see how young talent is appraised in the league.
In this case, it is probably fine because Kershaw would well exceed 75M but it’s hard to know how to take into consideration that he is young. Is his smaller track record bad or is it outweighed by the fact that he is young and might have a long career ahead of him?
Shame that we didn't get to see what Felix would have gotten in FA.
He only would have been 25 or 26 if he hadn’t signed his extension, right?
by VM on Jan 19, 2012 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
He'll still be relatively young
when he hits FA.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
So you're saying how many pitchers if they were FAs right now are capable of getting 75+ million contracts?
Probably a bit more, but not that much more. Something like 25 or so.
But when you look at the teams that are willing to give up that much money, you’re talking about a small group of markets that can sustain a payroll with a large contract to a SP. You’ll have the occasional Rockies/Giants team that makes a big splash (and gets burned badly by it), but most of the biggest SP contracts out there now belong to NY, Boston, Philly, and LA. If you had more top SP options out there, I don’t think you’ll see a rush by teams like Pirates, Diamondbacks, Royals, or other mid-low level market teams signing them to those contracts.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
You definitely can't think about it like that
Salaries are artificially depressed for way too long. Team salaries are low because they can get away with paying someone 600K who is actually stellar.
Teams only have a finite amount of money to spend on payroll
If the market is flooded with talent, teams aren’t going to be bidding themselves up to paying $5 million per WAR out there just because all the players are out there available to be signed.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
I think I would vote Yu... because that's who the Rangers picked.
Seems weird, but in his case I’m going to trust their talent evaluators. If they hadn’t already chosen Yu, I would probably have chosen CJ.
They believe in Yu, so I believe in Yu.
(Yes, yes, I’m led around the nose by JD)
by VM on Jan 19, 2012 1:09 PM CST up reply actions
I end up in a similar place.
I’m so ambivalent about it that it feels right letting the Rangers decision have the tiebreaking vote.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:12 PM CST up reply actions
Do you think that WAR
is a general precept that most front offices accept? I never hear any FO types talking about contract value in terms of WAR. However, a lot of contracts seem to be in line with the 4.5-5 million/WAR neighborhood. Just curious for your thoughts on the matter….
I think it's hard to say what 'most' front offices do.
There are good and bad front offices that achieve results in different ways. I think that some teams almost completely ignore the idea and rely instead on scouting; I think other teams implement this style of thinking [though perhaps not all the way to WAR or WAA] through most of the upper levels of their organization.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
So
if some offices rely on scouting to determine $ value then they must rely on players comps/contracts instead?
Well,
what I’m suggesting they do based on the information that JD has given (saying they take scouting into account) is figure out a way to put measurements on the scouting report.
Let’s just take the basic 2-8 scouting scale and give it units of Sc2. Then you just have to determine what each Sc2 is worth to determine that Beltre gives you 7.5 * $/Sc2 of value. Or you incorporate Sc2 into UZR and DRS in a weighted manner to assign value.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:47 PM CST up reply actions
I think many FO's
And certainly the Rangers… have something similar to measure a player.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Boston does something similar with CARMINE
I know that JD understands the concept, but I don’t know what they actually use [I think they figure out a way to combine UZR type data with scouting reports for the defensive ‘value’].
I know the Rays use a lot of the same technology that FanGraphs accesses data from, but I don’t know their overarching valuation models.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
heh
OrMoyal Or Moyal
We’re currently tracking a potential Yu Darvish flight. I think the folks of Lone Star Ball will appreciate that.
"...Ron Washington is the Les Miles of MLB." - AJM
That's just mean-spirited
"Sometimes I think I lost something really important to me, and it turns out I already ate it."
by DrumsInTheDeep on Jan 19, 2012 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
i can't vote on Android
but i vastly prefer Yu
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
by JBImaknee on Jan 19, 2012 12:29 PM CST via Android app reply actions
I prefer Yu
but I am not really objective about this right at the moment.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
posting fee
Darvish doesn’t get the posting fee, his team in Japan does which is a separate transaction and doesn’t count toward player payroll. I consider the posting fee separate from yearly payroll for the Rangers.
by Ryan2907 on Jan 19, 2012 12:32 PM CST via mobile reply actions
It's still money spent.
HNNNNNNGGGGG
by JoseTres on Jan 19, 2012 12:38 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Actually a fraction does count toward payroll
$8.6 million (1/6th of the posting fee) is tacked on to payroll every year for the next six years.
by Colonel Travis on Jan 19, 2012 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think we know for certain that's how it will work.
I’m sure the Rangers will list it as such for tax purposes, but…
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think he really knows
aside from what he said in his Q&A with himself
We've also heard
that the Rangers money guys view this as a capital expenditure…I don’t think we know for sure how it’s being accounted for on the ledgers.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
I'd like to know why he'd make up something like that
I’m all for knowing the correct terms. If he’s wrong, fine. I don’t care. Just saying that bit of info. seems like an odd thing to just pull out of your ass.
by Colonel Travis on Jan 19, 2012 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
What he said
doesn’t clarify the issue, there is still room for both leading ideas on how this will be accounted for to be right.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
Actually, what he said was very clear
Which is why I find it hard to believe he’s simply making it up. That’s not to say it’s wrong information. It could very well be, given to him by someone who doesn’t know.
by Colonel Travis on Jan 19, 2012 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
No, it isn't.
It doesn’t preclude the possibility that previous reports that the posting fee was viewed by ownership as something other than payroll, but will be amortized and listed as payroll for tax purposes over the next 5-6 years. Furthermore, this is a complicated enough issue that I’m not going to take a comment in a chat session as proof one way or another unless that chat was with JD.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:01 PM CST up reply actions
Good Lord
If what EG said – 1/6th counts toward payroll – then how does that mean it is something other than payroll? If it was, don’t you think he would have written that? Maybe that’s exactly what it was and he should have explained it better, and it’s a lazy ass error on his part. But it wasn’t the first time he’d mentioned it, either. what he wrote was specific enough for me to not assume it meant what you just put down, because the two are so different in meaning.
by Colonel Travis on Jan 19, 2012 1:09 PM CST up reply actions
If he said that in a longer article,
I could see why you would want to defend the point so much. As it was just a comment in a chat, I don’t see why.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:11 PM CST up reply actions
that makes no sense
either what he reported was correct or it wasn’t. You could write a 10,000 word essay on how the sun will explode into a red giant in five years, too.
by Colonel Travis on Jan 19, 2012 1:23 PM CST up reply actions
See what VM said below.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:36 PM CST up reply actions
Capital expenditures can be amortized over 6 years.
You missed what Pras said.
by VM on Jan 19, 2012 1:11 PM CST up reply actions
Grant said this:
Q: When does the bid money get paid?
A: The Rangers were not obligated to pay a penny of their $51.7 million bid until they had a contract with Darvish. They now have five business days to transfer the full total to the Hokkaido Nippon-Ham club. However, only one-sixth of the posting amount ($8.6 million) will count against the team’s payroll each year.
So one-sixth will “count against the team’s payroll each year.” From that one sentence how can you be so certain of yourself?
We don’t know all the details of how the posting fee will differ from typical player salary, if at all. If you think we do based on that one line from EG, then ok…
by VM on Jan 19, 2012 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This.
You get a rec for doing the legwork for me.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:36 PM CST up reply actions
Jon Daniels said it explicitly in an interview this morning.
Paraphrased: “We will prorate the $51.7M over the six years as part of payroll and that’s one of the reasons we wanted 6 years.”
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Ok.
I saw your comment below. I trust this a bit more.
So now we know how this affects the team payroll. Thanks.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:43 PM CST up reply actions
He said amortize
that is a term-of-art and different than pro-rate; I took it to mean that they amortize the capex over the life of the contract (6), but it is a silly argument nonetheless, it is still an expense, the only issue EG’s quote raised for me was whether it counted for luxury tax purposes, which I don’t believe it does
"If I had connections and knew I would have to start out doing scenes with dudes, I think I would give porno a serious shot." by River Fenix on Sep 23, 2011 10:44 AM CDT
by thedudeabides on Jan 19, 2012 2:18 PM CST up reply actions
thx
that’s what I thought, the loose use of payroll (though understandable) made me question whether I was mistaken in thinking it didn’t count for lux tax purposes
"If I had connections and knew I would have to start out doing scenes with dudes, I think I would give porno a serious shot." by River Fenix on Sep 23, 2011 10:44 AM CDT
by thedudeabides on Jan 19, 2012 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
AFAIK it doesn't count for luxury tax purposes
Everything else JD and Co. are spouting about proration are purely for capex bookkeeping purposes and don’t really change the outlay timelines. There could be some tax implications.
A burden should never be something out of your control.
there are
but it depends on whether you want to expense it all and shelter more income this year and/or have loss carry-forwards or amortize it over the life of the asset. still, they will find a way to get the tax advantages either way
"If I had connections and knew I would have to start out doing scenes with dudes, I think I would give porno a serious shot." by River Fenix on Sep 23, 2011 10:44 AM CDT
by thedudeabides on Jan 19, 2012 2:26 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I agree, this is what I was discussing yesterday
It all depends on their projected bottom lines for each year.
A burden should never be something out of your control.
so basically it works like a Signing bonus
in Football….While the money is paid up front, for “cap purposes” (see tax purposes) it is prorated over the course of the contract
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 19, 2012 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
unfuckingbelievable
I go away and come back and see this. I never said I was so certain of myself. I said EG could be wrong – multiple times. Turns out he wasn’t.
by Colonel Travis on Jan 19, 2012 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
Im actually doing
a graduate project on how MLB teams file and this is something I want to look into. Im doing my last MS in Accounting class (accounting research methods) this semester and my professor has approved this as a research project. Cool prof and should be fun!!!
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
by Michael Cave on Jan 19, 2012 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
Interesting. Make an LSB fanpost about what you learn!
by VM on Jan 19, 2012 1:05 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah thats goal
if I kind enough information on how MLB teams file which shouldnt be too difficult
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
by Michael Cave on Jan 19, 2012 1:08 PM CST up reply actions
Very interested to see your results.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:09 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, do, please
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
He did.
JD explicitly said they are considering the $51.7M as part of payroll, prorated over 6 years. That was part of their motivation for 6 years.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I wonder if the "savings" from the new CBA
regarding LA and draft talent will pay for the posting fee by itself over the next 6 years
I've wondered that too.
That amateur money needed to be spent somewhere.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
This...
is EXACTLY what Jon Daniels said on the Ben and Skin show this morning. The Rangers, for accounting purposes, are spreading out the 51.7 over 6 years.
There’s a whole bunch of people on here who owe Colonel Travis an apology for ripping him all day yesterday about that. And most of the people that owe him an apology are LSB lifers.
Go ahead, call me a Troll. I’ve noticed the trend of calling someone a troll when you can’t handle the truth.
by Buddy Smokes on Jan 19, 2012 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
I was "ripping" him
because he couldn’t explain to me how you could count on the 6th year when it was a player option.
Right
that’s the part he couldn’t answer because he didn’t know it was a player option. He just kept saying it was presumptuous of us to assume that a player would bolt if he was good if he had a player option.
Again
This is kind of irrelevant unless we know what the 5 year offer was in comparison…
I don’t think anyone here was saying that they weren’t going to spread it out… just that JD is merely referencing a lower AAV.
A burden should never be something out of your control.
Yu is better
Yu is younger and has better upside and potential. When CJ faces Darvish this year, I see CJ getting hit hard and hung with a loss.
by Ryan2907 on Jan 19, 2012 12:34 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I don't get this.
CJ is the exact sort of nibbling pitcher who our lineup will often swing too freely against.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
true, but..
Our lineup should be familiar with how CJ pitches. If you want to know how to attack CJ, look at how the Cardinals and Tigers attacked him in the playoffs. You don’t swing at balls that end up out of the strike zone every time.
First, our lineup is basically always very aggressive.
Second, don’t you think CJ has an advantage of getting to watch how other pitchers struck out his former teammates for all those years?
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
That easy, huh?
Because you would give the same advice to every hitter in every league from the MLB to kids playing in a vacant lot in the Dominican.
by Black Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
Rather have a shot at an ace...
Than an overpaid #2 starter BB machine who can’t hold it together in the playoffs.
And your budget.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
The Rays could not afford to do this, no.
Especially for that number of years.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
Moneyball aside...
They knew what they had in CJ and the market price was too steep given that assessment. Hometown LA got a discount, to boot.
So, they scouted the hell out of a potential ace and took a chance. If he flops, the mark on the org will be dark, but I see little reason for concern. I trust the holy crap out of this FO. Due diligence has been done.
by simian crease on Jan 19, 2012 2:54 PM CST up reply actions
Clearly it depends on the staff...
He’s a distant 3rd behind Weaver/Haren in LAA. The last #1 we had is in Philly.
Pretty nice knowing we lost in 7 without an ace. Or pretty tragic, take your pick.
by simian crease on Jan 19, 2012 2:59 PM CST up reply actions
I feel like the same people savaging CJ right now for his walk rate and calling him a #2 starter
are the ones who were trying argue that he was a legit ace 6 months ago.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
Who here considered CJ a legit ace?
This aint Facebook.
"It’s Advil and beef in the Texas Rangers, you yankee bastard."
- Nolan Ryan
I think he was an ace
I also think there are tiers of aces and he’s not up there with the best of them. It’s very possible he has the best season of anyone on the Angels next year.
by Black Francis on Jan 19, 2012 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
I think he was a #1 pitcher,
but not an Ace. I feel like I got pushback against this at the time.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
Some people only think of "ace" as top 3 or 4 guys in the league....
I don’t know what Pras thinks, but the definition is slippery and subjective enough to make discussions about it kind of pointless…
by VM on Jan 19, 2012 1:32 PM CST up reply actions
I think (or personally define) an Ace as more than that.
Consistently being elite is one aspect [especially as it gives confidence in projection]. IP and health are another. To me, an Ace is somebody you can rely on to help cover over disastrous starts by other members of the pitching staff in order to help save the bullpen. Also, it’d be nice if your Ace were the leader of your rotation, helping the younger guys out.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:34 PM CST up reply actions
Well he produced
like an Ace for one year in terms of WAR. How you define a rotation role (A-5) is pretty subjective and relative to your rotation. If you just look at WAR totals each and every year, the top 30 WAR totals fro starting pitchers range from 3.7-7+ WAR year in and year out. With that measure, you could say that producing like a #1 starts around 4 WAR. IF you also include talent and expected performance in the equation, it gets a little more murky.
The way I use the words...
An Ace is a #1 year after year… and can be expected to provide #1 performance.
C.J. was a #1 last year… but I think it was a career peak… so I don’t think of him as an Ace.
The basic measure I might use to say who is a what:
#1: 5.5 WAR
#2: 4.0 WAR
#3: 2.5 WAR
#4: 1.0 WAR
#5: Less.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
by Brad on Jan 19, 2012 3:01 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"can be expected to provide #1 performance"
This is how I view it. And there aren’t many who you can reliably project at 4+ WAR…
by VM on Jan 19, 2012 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly as I view it, Mr Match.
"It’s Advil and beef in the Texas Rangers, you yankee bastard."
- Nolan Ryan
I think a team can have an entire rotation step up one year and give you 5 #1 performances,
but that does not mean they are a team of Aces. I tend to avoid using the term for that reason.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 3:01 PM CST up reply actions
There are no "tiers" of aces.
There’s tiers of #1 pitchers, but a true ace is a guy who is universally recognized as a monster pitcher, year in, year out. Maddux, Johnson, Halladay, etc. CJ does not even belong in that conversation.
"It’s Advil and beef in the Texas Rangers, you yankee bastard."
- Nolan Ryan
by Flynnyrd on Jan 19, 2012 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I can think what I want to think.
I don’t think you have to be a first-ballot Hall of Famer to be considered an ace.
by Black Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:15 PM CST up reply actions
You will think what I tell you to think,
and you will be a better man because of it.
"It’s Advil and beef in the Texas Rangers, you yankee bastard."
- Nolan Ryan
Hitler was a vegetarian
That means all vegetarians are bad right?
Hitler only had one testicle
Does that mean John Kruk is bad?
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
I loved him on Aqua Teen.
"It’s Advil and beef in the Texas Rangers, you yankee bastard."
- Nolan Ryan
Aces are like porn...
I know ‘em when I see ’em. You machines can pump some ace numbers. I’ll go with the dude you expect to see start game 7 no matter what.
by simian crease on Jan 19, 2012 3:13 PM CST up reply actions
I love that people always go back to this definition
when it wasn’t even used in a landmark case and the court actually defined porn later.
That definition is not anecdotal enough.
Bill Hicks destroyed that definition by applying it to “every fuckin commercial on TV”.
So, sticking with know em when I see em.
by simian crease on Jan 19, 2012 3:23 PM CST up reply actions
What definition?
And the greater point is, try harder. Being unable to express your thoughts is not something you should brag about.
by ab03 on Jan 19, 2012 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
why does he have to be referencing a court case here
why can’t it just be something he says that you don’t need to analyze?
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
lol
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
And really, you want to get on your high horse about this?
I at least had a point, which I made clear and wasn’t just antagonizing somebody.
I'm not on a high horse
it’s just an internet comment, don’t take it seriously.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Yu
CJ’s walk rate and unsustainable low babip is going to come back and bite him.
by RangerMad on Jan 19, 2012 12:40 PM CST via Android app reply actions
He's also not pitching in front of Kins, Elvis, and Beltre...
But he WILL have to pitch TO them.
Naps is gonna slaughter him. And I will laugh heartily at the Angels misfortune.
"It’s Advil and beef in the Texas Rangers, you yankee bastard."
- Nolan Ryan
The Angels actually have a very solid defense
And their infield got better as they signed Pujols, who is one of the best defensive 1st baseman in the game.
by RangersfaninROK on Jan 19, 2012 1:34 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
There were 5 Rangers starters to pitch more than 11 innings last year.
CJ Wilson’s BABIP was 3rd highest/lowest out of this group…he was the median.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:17 PM CST up reply actions
Little-referenced fact: Wilson's BABIP vs LHB in 2011 was .341
I still haven’t seen eclou’s explanation for that…
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
I don't know.
But during/after 2010, eclou argued vociferously that Wilson’ s .202 BABIP vs. LHP was heavily attributable to Wilson’s talent and tenacity.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
Yu
I love CJ, but you’ve got to go with the potential and youth of Yu. A lot more money for that, but that’s the price of trying to get a young TORP.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
CJ sucks in the playoffs.
rabblerabblerabblerabble
I live to play the devil's advocate.
by AfterSchoolSpecial on Jan 19, 2012 12:48 PM CST reply actions
I know it's not the popular, "smart" baseball opinion,
but I actually think he DOES get rattled in pressure situations. As a result, he overthinks, and tends to lose a bit of control. You used to see it when he was the setup man / closer and he’d inherit a few runners. He gets sketchy when the pressure is high.
"It’s Advil and beef in the Texas Rangers, you yankee bastard."
- Nolan Ryan
I don't think it's a matter of pressure.
I think C.J. loses his command sometimes. We saw it in small stretches in the regular season too. He wasn’t dominant every game.
The issue for C.J. (and part of why Kevin Goldstein prefers Darvish) is that when his command is off… he generally falls apart. He doesn’t seem to have much ability to fight through it and adjust.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
He was better in that regard this year than last,
but, yes, that’s part of why he isn’t an Ace.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
Well most pitchers
don’t pitch well when not commanding their stuff. I think elite pitchers can push through this because they have better stuff. CJ has to have command so that his stuff and approach play up. Without it, his stuff isn’t good enough to push through streaks of poor command (and approach) issues.
It's so interesting/weird to me.
I think that CJ probably puts more effort into his approach than all but a few starting pitchers in baseball….
…yet I bet most here would say he has a poor approach.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 3:03 PM CST up reply actions
Race cars
herp derp
@AdamLikesBeer If you are in Minneapolis I can tell you where to get a good brew.
That's not Pras' point at all, I don't think.
I could be wrong, but I imagine he’s talking about the fact that Wilson apparently puts together extremely detailed plans for exactly where to pitch each batter — which draws criticism when he sticks to those plans despite not having his best stuff, or getting calls from umps, or whatnot.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
Correct.
I think he makes game plans with too little a margin for error.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
We are basically trading a known for an unknown
I really hope that Yu lives up to the hype. Yes he can be potentially be that mythical TORP that we all want and there is no way that CJ would ever really be that.
But we also don’t have any idea of what the floor is either.
The Rangers just pushed a lot of chips to the center of the table while still waiting on the River. If they miss it won’t sink the team but it will make a lot more things very difficult in the future.
JFE dat you?
I live to play the devil's advocate.
by AfterSchoolSpecial on Jan 19, 2012 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
Considering the time and manpower the Rangers put into scouting Darvish
I think they have a firm grasp of how each of the guys are likely to produce over the next few years, and they made it very clear they wanted Darvish.
I don’t think he’s as much of an unknown for this team.
The Rangers' scouting dept is one of the few things in life
I have great faith in.
"It’s Advil and beef in the Texas Rangers, you yankee bastard."
- Nolan Ryan
I don't disagree with that really,
just more trying to tap the breaks a little bit here.
I was excited when the Rangers won the posting fee and I am excited that he got signed to a reasonable contract compared to some of the numbers that were being thrown out there.
I am just saying that he hasn’t won any Cy Youngs YET!
by LBBRangerFan on Jan 19, 2012 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
when Yu's career is over
it will be known as the Cy Yu Young Award
by RangerMad on Jan 19, 2012 12:58 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
For $34.2 million more
you get 6 years younger and one extra year of the player under contract. Yes. It’s worth it.
Hindsight!
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Hindsight!
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
It's hard to vote on this
We know CJ Wilson can pitch. We’ve all seen him do quite well for way over 400 innings the last couple years, and with roughly half of those in a hitter-friendly environment. We know that he may have a big mouth, but he puts in the effort and keeps himself in almost superhuman condition. On teams like the Rangers you usually want a proven commodity, and I feel Wilson has proven himself.
Then again, he is on the wrong side of 30. He does throw with the dreaded “inverted W”. And I personally think something was physically wrong with him during the playoffs.
From the video we’ve seen of Darvish, he appears to be extremely fucking talented and he has yet to reach his prime. His ceiling is much higher than Wilson’s over the next few seasons.
But no matter what he’s done in Japan we still don’t know what he will do over here. He’s thrown a lot of innings for his age, too. As expensive as a premium veteran starter. The nightmare would obviously be that he gets hurt and ends up sucking. I don’t think he’ll suck if he’s healthy; his stuff is out of this world. He still may have trouble with the transition, though…who knows?
With Wilson having already signed with the Angels of all teams, Darvish is a good move as far as I’m concerned. Risk be damned. But I’ve written all this in an effort to try to figure out which way to vote, and if we could go back in time I still have the nagging desire to stick with the devil we know, so I don’t know. I abstain.
I agree with this
I personally think something was physically wrong with him during the playoffs.
I haven’t heard much about this, but his velocity drop made me think the same thing. I wonder if we’ll ever know for sure.
If he was pitching through an injury, it seems like everyone’s opinion of him should change for the better. That is, assuming the team knew it.
"I would have shot myself in the foot to stay in Texas." -- C.J. Wilson, 12/8/2011
I voted for CJ and I barely know why...
I don’t think CJ’s grossly over-paid. I do think CJ will be a decent MLB pitcher. So, at $77 million, he’s not a horrible idea. I understand the other side of it. As much as I love Yu Darvish right now. And who doesn’t? This exciting moment adds to the story, the entertainment, the hopes. How can I not love that?
However…to be honest about it…
The MLB has a great Darwinian system. It involves the minor leagues. It involves the pre-Arb years at dirt-low prices.
This Yu deal still scares me. It may be the ghosts of being an old Rangers fan? But, a lot of solid pitchers cannot hack-it in the MLB – especially for 5 seasons. Yu is now paid like a Top 5 pitcher. I trust the F.O., but, I’m also very concerned. This is the largest non-AROD contract ever. It’s exciting as hell, so, I will enjoy the ride. But, I am a bit nervous about it.
"It's incredibly hard." - Ronald Washington
i voted Darvish only because CJ is on the wrong side of 30
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
well i also like Darvish's upside
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
Thought about it, thought about it... finally went Yu.
Mostly because the Rangers made the same choice, and I don’t want to be on the wrong side of a ninja.
Blowout
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
yeah..Cj was an experiment that went well
but if had wanted to be here he would have made it happen but he wanted #1 pay and signed to be #3-4 in his homeland
I voted for Darvish
But it was hardly an easy choice.
CJ was a very solid pitcher during the last two years. He even put up a higher WAR than Weaver last season. I’m skeptical as whether CJ can ever pull another season like 2011 out of his sleeve, but I don’t think he’ll regress all that much either. It will be no cakewalk for Yu to prove he can be better than CJ.
I love Yu’s upside and ceiling as a potential TORP but many players never reach their ceiling. I hope he lives up to his hype and show that he is indeed made of TORP stuff.
by RangersfaninROK on Jan 19, 2012 1:26 PM CST via mobile reply actions
It would no doubt be as lopsided the other direction if this poll was on HH
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
Incidentally
Im sitting outside of Rowan’s school right now, and am about to go get her and take her to the zoo.
So the Rangers will probably sign Prince in about an hour
Stay longer just in case there is a snag.
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
Way to take one for the team Adam
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
this is awesome
Enjoy the zoo and take your time AJM
by elvis1isking on Jan 19, 2012 2:09 PM CST up reply actions
Good lord.
I’m going to watch that over and over again. By the time I’m done I will have learned Japanese.
by Black Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:46 PM CST up reply actions
That announcer
better than Barnett.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
150 km/hr with movement
Day-um
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
and not just a little movement, either.
It’s mind blowing. The Japanese are clearly overmatched…it’ll be fun to see how MLB players deal with it.
by Black Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:07 PM CST up reply actions
the general feeling is that he's going to scrap that super slow breaker, yeah?
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
Everyone says he should.
So I expect he will.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
that 125-135 km/h slider is going to get so many Ks
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
Probably.
He didn’t throw it all that much in Japan anyway, and I’m not sure it’s very good to start with.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Keith Law said this morning that he'll probably keep
4 seamer
2 seamer
Cutter/shuuto
Hard slider
Changeup
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
I think I have this wrong.
The hard slider and cutter may be the same thing.
Here’s what Law said:
He could strip down to the fastball, shuuto, one slider and a changeup or splitter, and be more effective because he’s junked his worst offerings.
Maybe FB, SL, shuuto, change, and splitter to use against lefties?
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
I think the shuuto is a 2S
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Yes,
this is what I thought.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:57 PM CST up reply actions
I'm looking forward to PitchFX data on him.
From ML games.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
so three different fastballs that do different things at 92-95
i’ll take it
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
pitch classifications
are just as suspect in the NPB as in the majors,. We won’t know what he actual throws (and how he refers to them) until he gets here.
dude gets fired up
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
Would CJ have signed the same deal with Texas?
The safe move was to stay with CJ.
ninjas aren’t safe…..
by death of the cool on Jan 19, 2012 1:38 PM CST reply actions
I don't think C.J. would have taken less to stay in Texas
At the point he reached free agency. I don’t think he would have even taken the same amount.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
If the Rangers would have offered a little less
he probably would have shopped it. If he has the Angels offer, he takes it to TX and asks for the same to stay. I doubt he’d have stayed for less.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
I think he wanted to be in SoCal.
More than he wanted to stay in Texas.
However… I think if we had given him that offer the previous off season (after one pretty good year) he’d have jumped all over it.
I think he would have taken Texas over Miami… but SoCal as his hometown had a LOT of appeal.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I think if the Rangers
had made bigger efforts to woo him throughout the year, he would have taken a similar or lesser contract from them.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:03 PM CST up reply actions
Perhaps
it seems like they were setting the stage for him leaving. And that’s why I don’t think he’d have stayed for less, much more than the hometown thing.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
I think if we matched the Angels offer he would have either taken ours or Floridas
I dont think he would have taken LAs money if we matched it under any circumstances and if we only offered 5/75, along with the Angels, then I think he would have gone for the big money FLA was offering
Why?
You don’t think he wanted to go home?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I dont think he hated Texas enough to go home for similar money
And so if both of us were at 5/77.5 and another team was at 6/~100 I think he takes that other team.
You're exactly right about ninja's....
JD is as dangerous as it gets…..
But to me, there is no question that Darvish was the better choice. I’ve said it before…I think we got CJs two best years…better to get rid of him a year too early rather than a year too late…
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jan 19, 2012 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
One ninja got them to the WS....twice.
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
Damn the iPad
Our ninja is very dangerous.
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
Darvish
higher upside and we get him through his peak seasons granted he is being paid a bit more, but that is a budget issue that the Rangers were comfortable making that commitment, so I definitely go Darvish.
Doing this, along with Feliz in the rotation, gives this team a fresh feel imo. I won’t dwell on the past as much if we don’t have pretty much the same team out there. I know it is generally the same, but with some role changes and a couple FAs, it feels different.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
I'm becoming more and more convinced
that Feliz should start the season in the minors.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
Couldn't you manage
both Ogando and Feliz’s innings this way?
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:53 PM CST up reply actions
You could...
… but you would have to deal with the consequences.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
That sounds ominous.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
I have thought this ever since they began discussing the transition back to starter.
It seems like it would be best for Feliz and allow the Rangers to limit his total innings for 2012. The problem is, Feliz needs to be sold on the idea for the best results, I doubt that would be easy for a guy who has already spent a couple full seasons in the majors. Letting pitchers get their feet wet in the big leagues in a reliever mode is fine, but I am not crazy about putting high upside pitchers in the bullpen for a couple seasons. This is pretty much my only complaint with the Ranger’s management.
Good idea for his development, ceteris paribus.
All other things are not equal, though.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
But,
then again…
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 5:30 PM CST up reply actions
Only one worth mentioning, and it's not really Feliz's fault.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
What would you tell him?
Would you guarantee that he make it back to the rotation if he succeeds? Or, would you tell him there’s a chance he’s there all season, if one of the 5 SP’s don’t falter?
That he'll be back if he succeeds.
If nobody gets hurt, which seems extraordinarily unlikely, then I would transition Ogando back to the bullpen as the ASB.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 4:11 PM CST up reply actions
Why did everybody only read the second part of that sentence?
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 5:30 PM CST up reply actions
Well it is a possibility that there isn't a significant injury by then.
Are you do replace the 1st person that has to miss a couple of starts?
Oh, I was thinking with an Oswalt signing.
What if Ogando does his pre-ASB thing, again? Also, it’s unlikely, but not extraordinarily unlikely.
A 2 week, rest-the-hamstring injury wouldn’t be enough to recall Feliz permamently. If it’s Colby, for instance, you know Wash is plugging him back in the roto the second he’s healthy.
Not saying you're wrong
I think, in theory, he should start at AAA. I just don’t see a good way to handle it, being that these are people.
Voted for Yu. Younger, better stuff, guy the Rangets actually chose, etc.
But C.J. will be worth what he got, and it’s annoying that it’ll be with the Angels.
by Giant Space Ants on Jan 19, 2012 1:40 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Rangets returns!
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, jonthefon, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
I figured that CJ would have more support.
My vote is for Darvish though. But at the same time for a team with a lot of key players nearing free agency, the window of opportunity appears to be narrowing and CJ would have been the safe route. Bringing Darvish in though, is a move to retool, get younger and still be a playoff challenger.
If you include the posting price...
as the cost of getting Darvish (which you should), it seems like you should also include anticipated additional revenue from marketing, which is impossible to quantify at this point (for me, anyway), but which any smart businessperson would do. Or am I missing something? Anyway, I voted for Darvish.
This has sort of been addressed.
Given that the TV contract is already signed and MLB shares merchandise revenue, and that D/FW doesn’t have a huge Japanese/Asian population, it’s difficult to see where the increased revenues come from. More realistically, Darvish will have to provide most of his value on the field.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:49 PM CST up reply actions
Gotcha, thanks
I forgot about the MLB sharing merchandise revenue (strange to me, but that’s nothing new).
I don't think the effect is going to be so pronounced
as to introduce millions in revenues to the Rangers.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:06 PM CST up reply actions
Did you see in the AM thread where there may be loopholes for teams to keep some merch revenue?
I wonder if thats really the case and if the Rangers knew about it and will exploit it
No, I missed that.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:09 PM CST up reply actions
If true
I wonder how much that would amount to.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Jeez
Who knows man
Imagine a Rangers store in Tokyo with Yu jerseys. Place would be a madhouse and sell out like crazy.
I think a cartoon character version of Holland
needs to be created with his own show ASAP.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
I had a dream last night that Holland got traded.
I can’t remember who it was for, though. Damn.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
Hey guys?
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
i would drink 100 beers in celebration
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
You would likely die
unless you spaced em out a little.
"It’s Advil and beef in the Texas Rangers, you yankee bastard."
- Nolan Ryan
heh my record is 24 in about half a day
not good
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
Given his massive star status in that country, that would be huge.
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jan 19, 2012 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
JD "confirmed" it by saying that
The Rangers get to keep all merchandise revenue that is purchased within 150 miles (he wasn’t sure on the distance) off the ballpark.
He said something like “So, yeah, go buy your Darvish jersey at the ballpark and help the team out”
by Dirk Diggler on Jan 19, 2012 2:28 PM CST up reply actions
DANG IT I'VE BEEN BUYING IT IN HOUSTON
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:29 PM CST up reply actions
Hell I need to pick my Darvish jersey up when I come to Texas next time.
@AdamLikesBeer If you are in Minneapolis I can tell you where to get a good brew.
I've been buying online for the convenience.
No more.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
This also makes me think they made a killing off the claw and antler stuff
since the vast majority of that was purchased here in DFW
by Dirk Diggler on Jan 19, 2012 2:42 PM CST up reply actions
x
With Hamilton and Cruz, what you see is not what you get. Both are proper "five-tool" talents who have provided very memorable performances when the greatest number of eyeballs were fixed upon them: in All-Star Games, Home Run Derbies, and Postseasons. Their ability to rise to the occasion on the "big stage" will probably earn them additional millions when they hit the free agent market, but, what the casual fan probably won’t remember, and several GMs will choose to overlook, is that in the last three seasons the duo has missed a combined 259 games. In his six full seasons, Prince Fielder has missed thirteen games, and he’s at least three years younger than either Ranger slugger.
If we can get Prince…oh boy.
by DFWTrojanTuba on Jan 19, 2012 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
interesting indeed.
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 19, 2012 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
I agree with this.
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
yep
the last point about the timing of it, is right on.. There are no big time bats coming up in FA for a couple years. If we can get Fielder, that would really solidify 1B for awhile during these competitive year. There is too much risk with Hamilton. You have to let him walk.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
they are still doggedly holding to the 1.6B TV #...
JD’s like, "you want some f*&#ing pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, b*#&hes!"- RCCook
LSB: "Oh s#*t, JD. You crazy!"
How do you put one number on it?
Isn’t it an incentive-laden thing?
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
there are escalators
but I’ve heard those can make it more than the $3B it is reported to be
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
More than?
That’s news to me.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:00 PM CST up reply actions
I think it was something Maury Brown mentioned
from one of his sources, but I have no details. It could be wrong. 3B though is generally what people are saying the TV contract is worth.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Fraley said $120M a year
the other day in the blog post about the Rangers hitting a record payroll this year, FWIW.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
where does he get that number
I haven’t seen a 2.4B number anywhere. is he just making that up, or are his math skills failing. Perhaps he meant, 150M/year
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
I've seen it before, don't remember where
I’ve seen the $1.6, 2.4 and $3B reported off and on, though some like Nightingale are firmly sticking to the top number.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
yeah, I'm sticking to the top number as well
I like that one. Plus, like you said there are some that are pretty sure about the 3B number. Hopefully, they are right. I could see why the Rangers wouldn’t want that to be public knowledge though.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Hard to disagree with anything there.
Some people think Fielder’s fat and will decline prematurely. It doesn’t address that and I’m not sure what to think about it.
by Black Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:05 PM CST up reply actions
Meh
Would have been fine with either player at those prices.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Yu is a monster.
Kevin_Goldstein Kevin Goldstein
Because it’s important, Rangers GM Jon Daniels informs me that Darvish weighed in at 6-foot-5 and 225 pounds. #DarvishWeightStoryBreaker
I wonder if he is going to have some sort of epic post-divorce trail of distruction.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
Lunch with Napoli tomorrow.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Better make it a weekend.
god, can you imagine if they were roommates in spring training?
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:01 PM CST up reply actions
it all makes sense now
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
Ian
what’s market value for him? Our payroll is gonna skyrocket if we get prince and have to resign Ian; does’nt look good in keeping josh and nellie and naps…atleast MY is gone after 2013
Nellie and Kinsler are under contract for a few more years.
And I don’t know that I particularly want to extend Hamilton, so…
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
Kinsler
this year, yeah, but i thought next year he was a FA? maybe there’s a club option? Im sure they will look into extending him this year though…
10MM club option with 500k buyout
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
$7M next year,
$10M club option for 2013.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:07 PM CST up reply actions
Snark pegged Ian at 5/70, which I think is pretty accurate.
Josh and Nellie are gone, baby, gone. Maybe we hold on to Naps, but it doesn’t look good right now.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Looks like Naps wants free market value.
=\
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:07 PM CST up reply actions
Stuff is fucked up and bullshit, ya know?
But, hey, Bossman Jr. is a FA after next year…
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Oh, ye of little faith.
/KingLeonidas
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
No reason your second CF'er can't play LF.
But, yes, I have little faith in Leonys.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I don't get any infatuation with upton
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Yep
Given his arb demand its very feasible to assume he was asking for something like 14-16 mil per for a FA year in any extension.
Only makes going after Prince more appealing if the prospects of losing both Napoli and Josh after 2012 are rising as they seemingly are
Yeah,
after seeing his arb demand, I realized he’s probably looking for something like 4-5 years @ $15M per. Sigh.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
I was a little leery of an extension of that length for him anyway
I look at that body squatting at catcher, at his age and have a hard time imagining it being worth $15M+ in 5 years.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Ofosho.
I mean, we say we’re ok getting the surplus value at the start, but the way catchers age….yeesh.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
and that makes me worry
catcher is such a weak position right now, no real free agents available soon, no prospects about to be ready, you’ll be looking at meh guys with good defensive chops I guess.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Yes.
I am envious of the Yankees catching depth.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:17 PM CST up reply actions
I think he's a guy
that you’ll end up having to overpay due to the scarcity of a good alternative. If the Rangers weren’t eyeing the WS on a yearly basis now, it would be different. But even if you are drastically overpaying towards the end, the Rangers might end up being at a point with Napoli where they can’t afford to lose him.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
I don't want to root for him to do poorly,
but if he does well, I’m afraid Boston will whip out their money penis.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
Got to root for Salty to do well
and make them think that they have a much cheaper alternative. And if Crawford continues to suck, they’ll have like 35+ million of crap just between Crawford and Lackey to work around.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
He just had surgery, no?
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:26 PM CST up reply actions
Wrist surgery.
Will miss the start of spring? the season? I’m not sure… he’ll miss the start of something.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
When did he have it?
I found this article that has Salty saying he’s preparing to be a full time starter, but doesn’t mention the surgery.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
I just heard about it this week.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
yeah,
saw a headline.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
If they signed Darvish, Fielder and signed Ian to a long term deal
and let Hamilton, Young, Cruz and Napoli go, I think I’m ok with that….
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jan 19, 2012 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
I think I'd like to see one more season of Naps in Texas
and decide about him. The rest I could get on board with letting go.
I’m really really worried that Napoli is going to regress at a rate we’ve never seen. I hate that feeling cuz I really like the guy.
Maybe it’s my bias to his body type and his injuries. I want to be wrong really bad.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
Me, too.
Though I still think he’ll be above average.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:47 PM CST up reply actions
I think it will depend on how many games he plays.
If he can play more or at the same amount he did last year, above average seems about right. If he plays less or get a bigger injury, bad news bears.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
I voted for Yu.
And it’s a little disingenuous.
I said at the beginning of the off season that I would rather have C.J. over Darvish if the money were equal because I have a very strong confidence that C.J. will be 4.0 to 4.5 WAR capable pitcher next year. I think over the next five years C.J. will probably be something like 17-18 WAR without a tremendous variance. He’s a talented pitcher who works REALLY hard at what he does.
At that point the unknown of how Darvish would adapt overrode the youth aspect and keeping C.J. just seemed “safer”.
But now that events have occurred… the excitement overwhelms me. Bringing in new hotness has a special feel… and I will trust the Rangers in this. I think Darvish has a higher ceiling than C.J. while not necessarily being “safer” and from an entertainment standpoint (which is the point of sports) thinking about Darvish is thrilling.
Plus… I root for laundry… cognitive dissonance FTW!
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
NEW HOTNESS
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
At least you know you're being bad, I guess.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:04 PM CST up reply actions
x
BNightengale Bob Nightengale
Prince Fielder (ever so quietly) remains strong on #Rangers’ radar #MLB usat.ly/yT9MKd
Heh.
The Texas Rangers want you to believe they are flat out of money now.
by TooLegitToQuit on Jan 19, 2012 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
Nightingale saying
the Rangers have already received over $100M from the tv deal.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
I would love to know where he's getting these figures from.
by RangersfaninROK on Jan 19, 2012 2:07 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
me too but I trust Nightengale
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
it's not so quiet when all the stories mention it
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
The dream...
If the Rangers can now add Fielder, who hit .299 with 38 homers and 120 RBI last season, they will have the potential of producing the greatest dynasty since the Yankees.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Potentially one of the greatest lineups of the past 20 years.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:16 PM CST up reply actions
then follow that up with the trade for McCutchen
and you are talking about a wet dream every night kind of lineup
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Sigh
McCutchen, Elvis, Kinsler, Beltre, and Fielder core. Think about that. THINK ABOUT IT.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
IF I DO THEN I CAN'T TYPE BECAUSE MY DESK GETS WOBBLY
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
Especially...
When you consider the Darvish, Holland, Feliz, Harrison, Ogando element.
And what’s on the way in the pipeline.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Well,
there probably wouldn’t be much left in the pipeline after getting McCutchen.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:26 PM CST up reply actions
Good point.
DON’TEVENCARE
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
YU MAD
I AIN’T EVEN MAD
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:28 PM CST up reply actions
we have a deep farm system
he’s only 1 guy. even if we trade 4 prospects for him, we’d be able to recover from that, especially considering you’d control him for 3 more years. Either way, it’s just fun to dream
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
21st century = 25 Texas Rangers championships
(I hope the bulk of those come in the first half of the century)
by VM on Jan 19, 2012 2:17 PM CST up reply actions
You know Bob and Ray do too.
Nolan probably has to use a cow prod to keep them from just flinging money at him.
When I hear Boras talking about “this is an ownership decision” what I really hear is “I’m a smooth talker and I can talk owners in to spending too much money”.
JD won’t blink… but he might have some ideas…
Come to us Prince. Find a way.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Good grief.
Something like… four, five years ago now?… on NMLR, the poster known as “Doug” and I kept repeating: “Build the dynasty, JD.”
It’s pretty damn cool to see the possibilities blooming…
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
I remember Doug
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
wow
Given Hamilton’s track record of production and the market for a player of his skills, he can expect to receive offers in the range of $25 million annually. It would be no surprise if someone steps up with a seven-year deal for about $175 million considering his athleticism, power and marketability.
that’s insane
Uhh...
It would be no surprise if someone steps up with a seven-year deal for about $175 million
Yes, yes it would.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:34 PM CST up reply actions
and the years
might be even more surprising than that kind of money.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Really?
Because that’d totally surprise me. Like, a lot.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
So they expect a team to step up and give Hamilton (with his track record of injury),
on average, the same amount of money Pujols gets? I don’t see any way that happens….
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jan 19, 2012 2:47 PM CST up reply actions
Wow.
If Hamilton gets that, good for him.
And, I would bet, bad — very bad — for the team.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
I suppose this isn't a shocking fact.
This is the same franchise that has invested more than $135 million in foreign free agents since the start of 2011, dwarfing every major-league team.
Eh,
I think it’s an endpoint thing, not necessarily a sign for the future.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 5:31 PM CST up reply actions
The new CBA pretty much makes it impossible to spend like that again
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Cespedes
Soler
That new hotness
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 5:48 PM CST up reply actions
I wouldn't be surprised if the Rangers get one of those guys
probably means no Fielder, but I think its easy for JD to convince ownership to spend on these international FAs knowing that its the last chance they’ll get at simply buying talent.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Why would it be the last chance they get?
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 6:21 PM CST up reply actions
Not the last chance to ever spend
but it would be the last chance to spend without being handcuffed by the CBA.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
I don't think the new CBA applies to these guys.
I could be wrong.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 20, 2012 1:08 AM CST up reply actions
Initial reaction is
that feels high.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:07 PM CST up reply actions
Yep
and having AZ and NYY above both Tampa and SF seems pretty odd. Even with Kuroda and Pineda I’m not sure I’d put the Yankees quite that high.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Seattle should still put up good surface stats and has the chance for more, too.
Brewers are better at the top.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:12 PM CST up reply actions
forgot about MIL
and in two years, Seattle could be near the top of that group. What team has a better top 3 pitching prospect trio than Seattle right now? (scratches head)
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Pirates maybe?
I know they have Taillon and Gerrit Cole…
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:28 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I was thinking of them, too.
Basically, higher ceiling guys can beat Seattle’s trio.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:34 PM CST up reply actions
Atlanta is close, too
Teheran, Delgado and Vizcaino.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
IT WAS STILL A BAD TRADE
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:41 PM CST up reply actions
Dipoto obviously planned on being fired for that trade, and had a handshake deal with Moreno to become the Angels next GM.
Acquiring Vernon Wells was obviously all a part of Moreno’s elaborate plan to fire Reagins, in this scenario.
Even with Darvish I'm not sure I can do that.
I think I’d still have Phillies, Angels & Rays higher.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
#1 match... #1
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 19, 2012 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
Sigh.
The concerns are that Felix is moving from the bullpen and remains a bit of wild card, both in production and durability
1. Philadelphia Phillies
2. Los Angeles Angels
3. Texas Rangers
4. New York Yankees
5. Arizona Diamondbacks
I don’t agree with this list at all. At all.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
Also...Feliz!
Spell check doesn’t pick that up
by DFWTrojanTuba on Jan 19, 2012 2:09 PM CST up reply actions
Hmmmm
I think the top 2 are proably right.
But give me:
3. Giants
4. Braves
5. Rangers
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Rays, man.
There’s a chance they pass the Phillies next year. Yeah, I said it. Travel into the general realm of my presence, male sibling.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:13 PM CST up reply actions
I'm a huge skeptic of the Rays roto, but I realize I'm in a small minority there
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I'd put Rays number two.
But yeah… they could legitimately be the best.
Quick poll… you can have either Darvish or Matt Moore… who do you take? [I think I’d take Moore]
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Quick: You can have Jeremy Hellickson or some fajitas from Uncle Julio's...
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Hellboy.
Hellboy’s a good pitcher. Maybe not as shiny as that ERA… but still quite good.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Hate Hellickson. Hate Niemann. Think Shields is a fraudulent fraudster fraud.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Shields can regress and still be good.
Price and Moore could both be 6+WAR pitchers next year.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:23 PM CST up reply actions
Not so sure about Moore
But I wouldn’t be surprised if Price wins the CYA this year.
by RangersfaninROK on Jan 19, 2012 2:29 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Ok, LSB, voting time.
Matt Moore, who has basically struck out 12+ per 9 innings every step of the way…will he be worth more than 5 WAR next year?
Yes
or
No
???
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:31 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think so.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
He could do that, sure
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
LOOKS LIKE IT'S JUST YOU AND ME, TBALL
maybe we can make tshirts? coffee mugs that say ‘moore coffee please’ ?
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:35 PM CST up reply actions
I think he does it
even if his innings are somewhat limited. I think he’s going to be 2008 Lincecum.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
12+ K/9
At almost every stop! When he didn’t? 11+ K/9!
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
I'd vote no,
but only because I think his innings will be limited by the Rays
This.
Only one pitcher in baseball pitched fewer than 200 innings last season and put up 5.0 WAR or better and it was Matt Garza, who got 5.0 exactly. And he did it in 198 IP.
James Shields didn’t even get to 5.0 WAR in 249 IP. Neither did David Price in 224.
Moore pitched 161 innings in 2011. Even if he is as stellar as they expect, I don’t think they’re going to give him the opportunity to pitch as many innings as it would take.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
You don't think he can hit 200IP after going 161 last year?
I would say they cap him at 200, but I don’t think it would be out of the question.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
I didn't say he wouldn't get 200.
I said only one guy hit 5.0 without getting to 200. Most of the guys over 5.0 were also well over in IP. For Moore to get 5.0 in 200 would be damn impressive and put him firmly in the highest echelon of starting pitchers as a rookie.
He’s going to struggle at some point in the season even if he has outrageous talent.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Well, I took your reply to MikeEl's comment and then
you throwing out the 200IP data as a belief that you didn’t think he would get over 200 IP.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
I say no...
Because that’s a high number and so hard to predict.
But I won’t be surprised if he does in the slightest. I think he’ll be a 6+ WAR pitcher at some point…. I just don’t know about 2012.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
No
and not because I don’t think Moore is that good, but because I think his IP will more or less be restricted to some degree by the Rays.
by RangersfaninROK on Jan 19, 2012 2:34 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I think facing the AL East will hinder his ability to produce a 5 WAR season
Put him in the central or the NL, easily could hit 5 WAR.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
Yes. And he'll accumulate that in roughly 150 IPs
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
He's Strasburgerian
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I think more like 180-190
He pitched over 164 innings last year, he can handle that.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Don't make this like your Cam Newton thing.
Roy Halladay was the only pitcher in baseball last season to do better than that in IP/WAR.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
*starting pitcher
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
This is crazy prediction day for me.
But I can’t yet project Matt Moore as a FHoFSP
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
WOOO
TSHIRT OR COFFE MUG?
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:41 PM CST up reply actions
It's just such a high number...
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
He's going to get help
that ballpark isn’t hitter friendly and he’ll still have a great defense behind him.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:42 PM CST up reply actions
But facing the Yanks, Boston, Texas etc?
And they certainly aren’t going to just let him pitch at home.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
Defense matters more than park,
but playing in a not-hitter’s park helps. Sure, playing his away division games in hitters’ parks hurts, but Baltimore should be bad, he’ll still get to play the rest of the AL.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:49 PM CST up reply actions
I guess it's more about the hitter he will be facing
then the ballparks. The Yank lineup and the right field porch is much more of a threat than the Minn lineup at Minn.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
Sure,
but what of the Baltimore lineup? Boston’s is very good also, but Toronto’s isn’t fear-inducing, despite the awesomeness of Jose Bautista.
And again, a weighted schedule doesn’t mean he only pitches against the AL East…
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:58 PM CST up reply actions
TSHIRT FOR SURE
SIGN UP PHILCLARK AS WELL BECAUSE HE TOOK MOORE OVER BRYCE HARPER IN OUR MINOR LEAGUE DYNASTY DRAFT. YEAH I GOT HARPER 2ND!
Do I have to eat the fajitas out of Hellickson's nostrils?
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:17 PM CST up reply actions
Uncle Julios without thinking
Defending Big D Check it out
Twitter
"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
The only thing that I might give Darvish...
Is he’s dealt with being THE MAN for several years now. He’s a pretty seasoned pitcher.
But Matt Moore is ridiculous. I’m not even sure he’s human.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Darvish is much more attractive.
Other than that?
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:18 PM CST up reply actions
I'd put Tampa ahead
of TX and ATL off the top of my head.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
The Texas rotation
has such a wide variance in possible outcomes with high level talent coupled with inexperience.
Harry and Holland have produced for one year (and inconsistently at that) and both have a bit of an injury history.
Feliz is a rotation virgin.
Yu is the bomb but he might not burst onto the scene until 2013.
Lewis was frightening at times and an injury concern.
Rays roto not even making top 5?
Not buying this list.
by RangersfaninROK on Jan 19, 2012 2:10 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Sigh...
The concerns are that Felix is moving from the bullpen and remains a bit of wild card, both in production and durability;
by Pocket Ninja on Jan 19, 2012 2:09 PM CST up reply actions
hernandez?
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 19, 2012 2:09 PM CST up reply actions
JD dun ninja'd the King?
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
for only profar... wahoo!
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 19, 2012 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
is it so hard to call Feliz by his name
man, that is ridiculous
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
i want to hear a neftali sanchez or something not even close
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 19, 2012 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
then they'll just turn it into
a dirty sanchez
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
they have alot more confidence in Feliz than i do as a starter
How can SF or TB not make that list..lol
that doesn't make much sense really
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Has anyone figured out how nervous/excited they are going to be for Yu's first start?
I think I’m going to be an 11/10.
A burden should never be something out of your control.
i just wish i knew which day so i could buy really awesome tickets close to home plate
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 19, 2012 2:15 PM CST up reply actions
Sort of unrelated, but how well do people think Cruz would be able to manage 1B?
I think it could be a good move for him, and help keep his hamstrings from getting worn down, maybe keep him healthy over a full season?
x
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Despite last year's numbers,
Cruz provides very good defense and this would be hurting his value.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:26 PM CST up reply actions
Except he can't stay healthy playing the outfield
Also how long can you count on his continued plus defense at his age?
Just ask Wash if playing first base is difficult.
by VM on Jan 19, 2012 2:43 PM CST up reply actions
It's incredibly hard.
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jan 19, 2012 2:50 PM CST up reply actions
From what I've watched of Cruz...
he doesn’t have very good hand-eye coordination when he’s trying to catch the ball. How many times has he had a ball hit his glove and not made the catch? Not that I can make a definitive prediction about it, but that weakness probably wouldn’t translate too well to playing defense at 1st base.
Also, his range and arm are his biggest strengths as a fielder, both of which would be way less valuable at 1st base.
"...Ron Washington is the Les Miles of MLB." - AJM
I'm not sure,
but he should be in his ‘plateau’ years, I believe, so…
…at least until the end of this contract.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:50 PM CST up reply actions
I was thinking more longterm
Like would extending Cruz to play 1B be more cost-efficient than signing Fielder long-term to play that position?
I'm not sure it is. Perhaps.
You’d likely have to sign or trade for a notable OF to make up for the hole there as there are no obvious candidates from the farm system there right now.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:59 PM CST up reply actions
My thinking is that most of the impact 1B aren't going to be on the market
as they’re getting locked-up longterm.
There seem to be more available outfielders coming up on free agency in the coming years and would be easier cheaper to sign, and at the very least a good defensive outfielder can provide significant value at a low cost.
Great
and we’ll need to get one after we let Hamilton walk.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 3:07 PM CST up reply actions
That leaves us with a replacement-level platter of OFs
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Because you don't move a plus glove and plus-plus arm from RF to 1B. It's really that simple.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
His quads are fine! Yes!
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
If you look at his defensive numbers last year compared to 2010
(and I know looking at a single season isn’t the best measure of defense)
there’s a pretty big dip.
I’m concerned that could be the beginning of real decline in his defensive ability.
2010 UZR/150 → 12.6
2011 UZR/150 → -7.9
That’s a huge dropoff when you consider that the previous variance was only about +/- 3 UZR/150
I know.
But I think there is a preponderance of evidence that overcomes that one bad UZR reading.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 3:01 PM CST up reply actions
Ok, well I was just throwing it out there to get an idea of what other people thought of it
I’m not convinced yet myself, but I do think it’s something to consider if Cruz continues to show he’s not able to stay healthy over a full season and the Rangers are deciding whether or not to let him go via free agency.
Yes, but it's not even that simple.
1. 1B isn’t just some ghetto position you move your injury-prone guys to and expect them to pick it up like they’re playing catcher in a rec-league softball game.
2. We already have 3-man rotation at 1B, so even if Cruz can play 1B for 150 games per year, you’re going to need to move Moreland or Young—neither of which is likely (but for different reasons)
3. Taking Cruz out of RF and moving him to 1B probably doesn’t mitigate the risk of injury nearly enough to outweigh the WAR difference between Cruz/Moreland-Napoli-Young platoon and…Moreland-Murphy/Cruz (RF/1B combo)?
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I don't even break a sweat thinking about it
Darvish all the way. CJ Wilson earned my hatred during last year’s playoffs.
Let me be the scouting director AND the GM
No he didn't.
Not hatred. You shouldn’t hate CJ for anything. He was great for us.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
im pretty sure mine is and was borderline sports hate...
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 19, 2012 2:27 PM CST up reply actions
I used to like him
But his performance was that bad. And I really believe in Darvish
Let me be the scouting director AND the GM
good grief
I can't stand people who are intolerant of other people's taste in music or people who like Nickelback.
by jonas m. on Jan 19, 2012 2:43 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
x
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jan 19, 2012 2:54 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
This
"Napoli is Al Fucking Swearingen, pissing out the dull lump of Angel hubris from his penile shaft like a pus-slathered kidney stone." - TT from HH
by DonDrapersOPS on Jan 19, 2012 3:40 PM CST up reply actions
You don't have to hate CJ to believe in Darvish.
I believe in him as well, and it doesn’t affect my perception of CJ.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
I hate him with the fire of a billion suns
But it’s only because he’s an Angel.
by Black Francis on Jan 19, 2012 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
I only sports hate him for going to LAAAAAAAA
Otherwise, he was great for the Rangers…..that being said, I was against them re-signing him.
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jan 19, 2012 2:52 PM CST up reply actions
x
Police in the Dominican Republic say Fausto Carmona’s real name is Roberto Hernandez Heredia, Enrique Rojas of ESPNDeportes tweets. Jorge Arangure Jr. of ESPN.com tweets that the right-hander’s chances of obtaining a visa quickly are not good. Yancen Pujols first tweeted news of the identity issues.
Carmona, who’s listed as 28, will earn $7MM in 2012. The ground ball pitcher posted a 5.25 ERA with 5.2 K/9 and 2.9 BB/9 in 188 2/3 innings in 2011. The Marlins placed Leo Nunez/Juan Carlos Oviedo on the restricted list because of issues related to his assumed name. It’s not clear whether Carmona will be able to pitch in the U.S. by Opening Day.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
It's now being reported he is 31.
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
I wonder what Albert Pujols real name is.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
would be soo great if they found out he was 35.....misery of Angel fans please me.
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
depends on the wording of it i guess
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
When they're paying him 30m a year as a 40+ year old
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 19, 2012 2:48 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
That will be true regardless.
They just didn’t know it started in 2016
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Ted
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
ted brogan
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 19, 2012 2:42 PM CST up reply actions
Don Smith
He is from Rome, Georgia and is 43 yo.
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
It wouldn't shock me if Pujols was 35.
He runs like he’s 50.
by TooLegitToQuit on Jan 19, 2012 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
Fausto is terrible
Just horrible at pitching
by dumdum000333 on Jan 19, 2012 2:42 PM CST up reply actions
Darvish contract
is it 6/60 or 6/56 with 4m in incentives? Any confirmation?
You are wrong
Suck it bitch.
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
No problem
eFriends?
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
6/$56 guaranteed.
The other $4M is roster bonuses… so effectively 6/$60 as long as his career doesn’t end.
An additional $10M can be earned by performance… no mention of how yet.
6th year is a player option if he either:
A) Wins the Cy Young and finishes in the top five a second year
B) Finishes 2nd in the Cy Young and finishes in the top five in two other years.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
thanks
got all the other stuff but it was the 4m I was confused about given that the 10m incentive figure was reported as well.
lets hope he earns an extra 10 mill
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 19, 2012 2:38 PM CST up reply actions
I'd be happy if he gets third in the Cy Young Award five times
"I wish I could tell you that TRangers fought the good fight, and the 2 strangers let him be. I wish I could tell you that - but Beaumont is no fairy-tale world." - bking
At this point, with the way the team is constructed,
his good peripheral season should translate into good with all of those traditional stats.
I couldn't really find a way to say
“I hope CY voters continually find some sort of blemish that prevents them from supporting him.”
Even then, I’m kind of lying. I want him to win everything.
The ZiPS projection would be fine I guess
nothing sexy but solid production probably worth the value of the contract.
I finally got a comp
Jaime Garcia with more Ks
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
fucking christ garcia is a lefty
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
ROY HALLIDAY BRO
TALL WITH SO MANY FASTBALLS THAT GO WHERE HE WANTS THEM TOO
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
THIS, MOTHERFUCKERS. YYYYYYYYYYEP
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
i heard someone say feldman was halliday-ish last season and i think i crushed
my remote control over need and threw up.
it was fucking rhadgan probably
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 19, 2012 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
need or knee... whatever
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 19, 2012 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
CJ should see his performance decline while Darvish is just entering his prime.
Give me Darvish. I do wonder if the Rangers know something about CJ that we don’t or they just thought that highly of Darvish compared to CJ.
Was a certain person banned or something?
I haven’t been around a lot lately, but when I have checked out comments I haven’t seen a Certain Person. You know who I mean.
Dang it, now GoET or AJM is going to remember they banned him and reinstate him.
Way to go, bub.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
Bad juju, man.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Well if he shows up I'll leave again.
I cannot stand LSB comments with him here stirring up shit.
by Black Francis on Jan 19, 2012 3:00 PM CST up reply actions
I usually just avoid those sub-threads
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 19, 2012 3:01 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
they tend to spread out like the AIDS
so I have decided to simply close the pool and GTFO.
by Black Francis on Jan 19, 2012 3:12 PM CST up reply actions
I have my 3-point stance picture ready to go....
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jan 19, 2012 3:02 PM CST up reply actions
should be everyone's response
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
Expect him to come within the hour
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 19, 2012 2:59 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Ready for baseball now.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
Still a few minor things to be sorted.
Still need to figure out who the LH specialist will be
Still need to figure out who the UIF will be
Still need to figure out who the 1B will be…
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I've got it
sign Fielder and Moreland can be the lefty.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Going down to the minors and starting a Brooks Kieschnick career
I like it
"I wish I could tell you that TRangers fought the good fight, and the 2 strangers let him be. I wish I could tell you that - but Beaumont is no fairy-tale world." - bking
He was a closer in college
Defending Big D Check it out
Twitter
"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
Oh I know (well knew he was a pitcher in college didn't know a closer)
I just was stating how awesome it would be to have a guy capable of being a 2 way player like that would be.
"I wish I could tell you that TRangers fought the good fight, and the 2 strangers let him be. I wish I could tell you that - but Beaumont is no fairy-tale world." - bking
Gonzalez
Jack Wilson (still unsigned, right?)
Fielder, Prince
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Jack Wilson was the Pirates Michael Young
/Josh Lewin
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 19, 2012 3:01 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'd just like our UIF to play a legitimate SS, if needed.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Wilson is still unsigned??
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 3:02 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think so...
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Shit. No. He signed.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7459791/jack-wilson-agrees-1-million-deal-atlanta-braves
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Yeah.
Nice signing.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 3:04 PM CST up reply actions
And the Indians got Adam Everett for 1/700k
I’m quickly running out of names.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Look like it's Ryan Theriot time...?
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I had no idea that he was still playing.
I was shocked to see how well he graded out in his prime.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
Oh, he had a helluva glove
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
he was good at that defense thing for a while
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
Wonder if they'll really use Marteen out of the pen this year.
If Marteen is used as a LOOGY, I will rage.
by RangersfaninROK on Jan 19, 2012 3:22 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Use him there in the playoffs.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Yes. Mystery arm that no one has seen in the bigs yet.
Advantage Marteeeeeeeen
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
I dont see Marteen as a guy who has the stuff to come out of the pen
I understand the concept of letting guys work their way into the majors through the pen but not all guys have the stuff to do that. Perez doesn’t have a blow it by you fastball like Holland or Feliz, or even Harrison has. He’s more “crafty” while not being soft tossing. He mixes his pitches which is something that isn’t usually a great recipe coming out of the pen to do.
Only way I see them doing it is in like a September callup as a long man in which he can go 3+ innings. Otherwise I would rather just keep him in AAA until a spot opens up where he can come in and be a starter
I'm waiting for confirmation on this
But I believe Perez’s average fastball as a starter isn’t that much lower than Holland’s when he first came up.
Holland has obviously improved since then, but I’m not sure what you’re basing the idea that there is a huge gulf on.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Perez throws between 90-95.
He’d be in the top ten of average fastballs among LH starters. Right around where Harrison is.
He has great stuff… command is the concern.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I'll be interested in seeing Parks' updates after a few starts this season
He’s always been said to have the athleticism and mechanics to develop command. Here’s to this being the year, so we can turn him for McCutcheon
So much swoon. (this is from a couple years ago)
I don’t need much motivation," Darvish says through an interpreter. “I’m never satisfied until I win all the games and have an ERA of 0.00. I want to throw a faster fastball. I want a sharper curve. I want to improve all my pitches.”
Yu is cocky enough to say things such as, “On a scale of 1 to 10, I can bring a 10 to any important game.”
Hillman compares Darvish’s marketability to Tiger’s and MJ’s. “He understands how cool people think he is. He understands the adulation and the mystique.”
Indeed. Hillman says the driving force for Darvish’s weight regimen was an intense desire to get stronger and “be the dominating pitcher that he can be” but also that “he wanted to look good for those endorsements.”
With quotes like that, I can see the LSB supporters (me included) going to the
game and screaming at him like Beatles fans at Shea Stadium….
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jan 19, 2012 2:57 PM CST up reply actions
He'll be bigger than Christ
Now, I’m not really comparing them, like saying as a person or something…
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Dang if that's the effect he could have on sports...
Then $111 isn’t anywhere near enough. Hopefully he is as advertised.
The bravado...
Is most welcome. April can’t come fast enough.
by simian crease on Jan 19, 2012 3:02 PM CST up reply actions
Seriously. I want my pitchers to think they're bad asses.
Defending Big D Check it out
Twitter
"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
This guy was born to be a superstar
His demeanor, flair, attitude, etc. If he starts producing at the level that we expect him to, he’s going to be a phenom in th US.
by RangersfaninROK on Jan 19, 2012 3:07 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'm getting my Prince hopes up
This isn’t good
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 19, 2012 3:00 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Right there with you.
Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11
My Prince hopes are too high, as well
In no way will I be disappointed in this off-season, but I really think there’s a decent chance our team becomes utterly spectacular with a Prince signing.
Say Strasburg throws 200 innings
Think he leads the NL in pitching WAR?
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
Did Roy Halladay die?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
by Brad on Jan 19, 2012 3:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
A couple of other guys would have to die as well I think.
by RangersfaninROK on Jan 19, 2012 3:13 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Probably not too many, though...
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 3:15 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, that's true.
Just being a little boy who loves baseball…
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 3:17 PM CST up reply actions
Does Strasburg's fixed shoulder still have the ability to spin baseballs in ways that boggle the mind?
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
elbow
arm
whatever
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
In pronouncing Roy Halladay's death?
Perhaps… it would shock me if he were Nosferatu.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I don't think there's any way he hits 200ip even if hes healthy the entire year.
by LiamP on Jan 19, 2012 3:23 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
i don't either
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
Zimmerman should probably rebound nicely over at 3B
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
That Mike Morse
he can hit the motherfuck out of the ball, can’t he
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
Yes,
I’ve said it before, but if they signed Prince, we should trade for Morse.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 3:30 PM CST up reply actions
I'm meh on him
I think they should sign Prince and sell high, personally. 30 years old, posted a career season, and had a .344 BABIP. Depends what the scouts think, but I’m not drafting him in my fantasy leagues, that’s for sure.
sure the average is a bit babip driven
but that doesn’t make the .250 ISO any less real
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
wOBA* - .389
wOBAr – .377
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 3:33 PM CST up reply actions
True
He’s not bad, I just think they’d ask for a ton, and he is likely not improving at this point at age 30. It obviously depends on cost. I’d love to have him on our team, but if it’d cost Profar, Olt, plus… no thanks
Oh,
I wouldn’t do that either.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 19, 2012 3:38 PM CST up reply actions
when's he a FA?
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
This surprised me, by the way
no way it would cost Profar… I thought he had 3 or 4 years of control left.
couldn't believe he only had a .323 woba last year
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
Werth, Crawford, and Dunn
Who rebounds this year and who doesn’t?
by RangersfaninROK on Jan 19, 2012 3:33 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yes. He was a .2 WAR last year.
If he even meets his average WAR from the last 5 years, he will have moved his WAR by 4ish.
He is so, so much better than he was last year.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
Heh. I obviously think he will be the one who rebounds the most.
I’m really not very smart.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
Dunn, probably
Even being a replacement level player next year would be a 3 WAR swing
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
Yes
You’re now becoming reaware that Dunn was a -2.9 win player
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
Going by the $/WAR concept
Dunn had to PAY his team around $15 mil in 2011 in order to play.
by RangersfaninROK on Jan 19, 2012 3:46 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I loled so hard when I first saw Dunn's WAR for 2011
by RangersfaninROK on Jan 19, 2012 3:37 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
his 2009 WAR is almost as funny
>almost have a .400 wOBA
>1.1 WAR
>you are THAT bad at defense
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
Not really his fault they kept putting him in the OF that year.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
-37 RUNS!
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
dude had like a .250 batting average and almost had a .400 OBP
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
The T looks a lot better than Ham Fighters or whatever team he came from.
TROLL ON YOU BEARS. - atoms
and they fight ham
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
That's always what I think of when I hear "Nippon Ham Fighters"
I picture Japanese dudes beating the hell out of a giant ham with baseball bats. And in my head it’s always a cartoon, WWII propaganda style.
I am not a racist.
by Black Francis on Jan 20, 2012 12:19 AM CST up reply actions
5 weeks ago
it was December 15th.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
BTW: Results for the Darvish Contract predictions
Longhorn came the closest at a 6 year $62 million contract prediction.
Two people (Gay for Feliz and RangerMad) guessed 5 years $60 million, while RangerMad had an option year at 18 million. Interpret second place however you will, but Longhorn is the winner.
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - JParks
"It’s unusual that Sickels is higher on a low-A prospect than those of us who follow the Rangers’ system closely." -rooster on Jan 1, 2011 12:10 PM PST talking about the son of Judeska and Chesmond
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it" - Thomas Paine
I don't have one listed for you
or a comment with your guess from this thread.
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - JParks
"It’s unusual that Sickels is higher on a low-A prospect than those of us who follow the Rangers’ system closely." -rooster on Jan 1, 2011 12:10 PM PST talking about the son of Judeska and Chesmond
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it" - Thomas Paine
gay for feliz actually had a 6/61 prediction yesterday morning
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
I voted my feelings at the time both were still on the market
Which were that CJ was cheaper, lower risk, and ultimately had a high enough upside himself (although not as high as Darvish’s).
Obviously I’m fully onboard with getting Darvish now, but a large part of the reason for that is the Angels having the best rotation in the AL after signing CJ. Before that happened I think there was less need to make such a massive investment.
Look, this is a bad time to buy cocaine anyway. With the market how it is, it is better to rent cocaine.
I disagree strongly with the thought process involved here.
OurDailyBears.com
by Prashanth Francis on Jan 20, 2012 1:09 AM CST up reply actions
Adding CJ to their Rotation didn’t push them over the hump. Yeah he’ll do well there probably but the Angels had a descent Rotation and were still 10 games back. CJ isn’t going to erase that completely. The Angels should have looked at players to replace the ones that are injury prone and topping in age instead of a massive contract for a 1st baseman and pretty hefty one for a #4 starter
Adding CJ to their Rotation didn’t push them over the hump. Yeah he’ll do well there probably but the Angels had a descent Rotation and were still 10 games back. CJ isn’t going to erase that completely. The Angels should have looked at players to replace the ones that are injury prone and topping in age instead of a massive contract for a 1st baseman and pretty hefty one for a #4 starter
In my opinion
The 51.2 million posting fee shouldn’t count because in all it doesn’t go toward the luxury cap he’s not making 18 million a year he’s making 10 million a year. But still the Angels bought a pitcher (CJ) for 77.5 million at 5 yrs to place him in the 4 spot. I would rather have a potential true Ace for the money than a #1 starter by default
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Lone Star Ball
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Get a grip: Reds’ Todd Frazier loses bat, still connects for home run (Video)
- Eric Hosmer redefines the Baltimore chop with infield double (Video)
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
