Wednesday a.m. Rangers things
With Prince Fielder now off the market, the last significant bit of Rangers-related offseason drama is now over. Detroit gave Fielder the long-term $200+ million deal that Scott Boras was seeking, and the Rangers were clearly not going to get involved at that level.
T.R. Sullivan writes that with Fielder off the market, the Rangers' focus now will be on working on long-term extensions with their current players, with Josh Hamilton being the top priority.
Gil Lebreton has a column on Fielder and the Josh Hamilton contract situation, saying that 4 years and $72 million would be a good starting point for a Hamilton contract, with incentives based on games played that could raise the value of the deal.
Behind the paywall at the DMN, Gerry Fraley says that with Prince Fielder off the market, Josh Hamilton "has a hammer" and the Rangers have no leverage with him in contract negotiations.
Yu Darvish's goal is to be the best pitcher in the world.
Richard Durrett's positional outlook series continues today with a look at second base.
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Comments
First
One to complain about power going out?
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
by Rodney on Jan 25, 2012 8:29 AM CST via iPhone app reply actions 1 recs
Second
base is covered this year with Ian. Hopefully we can get another full season out of him.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
by jam0152 on Jan 25, 2012 8:32 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Third
movie in the LotR was easily the best.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
by Brad on Jan 25, 2012 8:34 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Home
is where the plate is.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
by Atticus F on Jan 25, 2012 9:10 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Left
unsettled, a woman’s scorn can be deadly.
A burden should never be something out of your control.
by benjihana on Jan 25, 2012 9:44 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Center
yourself with regular meditation.
by bafusilier on Jan 25, 2012 10:02 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Right
to the bar after work.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
by Atticus F on Jan 25, 2012 10:08 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Seriously
I will be about an hour late to work today… Buddy called about 8 am and woke me up :/
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
by Rodney on Jan 25, 2012 8:44 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
You know there's an alarm on your iPhone, right?
It’s not affected by power outages, assuming its already charged.
by Wemedge on Jan 25, 2012 9:32 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
My power strip reset when the power (presumably) spiked
Nothing was charging :(
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
was it around this time last year we were bitching about Rhadigan????
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 25, 2012 8:34 AM CST reply actions
+ four months
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
by Rodney on Jan 25, 2012 8:43 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Yeah
I didn’t hate him until “It’s a caught!” even though that’s one of the funniest things I’ve ever heard.
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 25, 2012 9:19 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Let's not forget the cheeseburger story...
By far one of the best bed time stories in the history of bed time stories.
by kchorton on Jan 25, 2012 9:28 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I thought it was...
“Saddle up baseball, you’re going for a ride.”
by LiamP on Jan 25, 2012 9:40 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Right left center field!
Defending Big D Check it out
Twitter
"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
That was my favorite
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
"It's time for baseball, y'all!!"
Hated that from day one……
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jan 25, 2012 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
Right before lunch I have to read that.
I’ve lived in Texas for a long time and thought it was terribly contrived. I hate contrived from a play-by-play person.
"And a sharp grounder up the left side to Borbon,
wait, Elvis Andrus, no….that’s Andres Blanco. I dunno, one of the black Mexican guys."
"It’s Advil and beef in the Texas Rangers, you yankee bastard."
- Nolan Ryan
by Flynnyrd on Jan 25, 2012 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
So which one is the worse deal
the 10y/$254M for Pujols or the 9y/$214M for Fielder?
Pujols is a better player overall, but he’s considerably older, has one more year on his contract and is more expensive one between the two. While Fielder has the advantage of being younger, the track record of overweight players in the past does not bode well for him in terms of the aging curve. Can’t really decide which is worse.
by RangersfaninROK on Jan 25, 2012 8:45 AM CST reply actions
neither one looks good for the last 4 or 5 years of their deal
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." The JeDi
that seems optimistic
and even if it turns out to be true, those last couple of years are likely to be very bad indeed.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
I know you really like Prince
But if he pulls a hammy, he’s going to be a shell of a player. His Dad had a season like that in his age 28 season. And by the time he was 32-33, he could barely slug .400.
And as Rob Neyer pointed out, there has never been a ML Baseball player that was under 6’ and weighed close to 300 lbs. I just don’t see how that can possibly age well.
I think we’ve seen Prince Fielder’s best power years already, and Detroit is going to have to eat the back 1/3 of that deal and release him.
How nice would it be
If Pujols in fact turned 34 (or even 33) on Jan. 16th instead of 32?
I do like a conspiracy story, so forgive me, but that age/production curve would make soooo much more sense if he was 22 or 23 in his first year and not 21. And the anecdotal story I read back in the Fall about how he moved from the DR and wanted to enter HS in the states to get himself in the draft …
The thing about the Fielder deal
Is that the Tiger won’t need him for two of his good years.
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 25, 2012 9:20 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
They nearly beat us in the playoffs
You see a regression in their pitching?
by corbsclinton on Jan 25, 2012 9:54 AM CST up reply actions
Well their defense is likelier much worse now
And Doug Fister is someone that comes to mind when thinking about regression for that pitching staff.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Verlander is a wonderful pitcher
But he definitely was pretty fortunate as well, especially on the road. It’d be hard for him to match or beat what he did last year.
Same could probably be said about Valverde
I say Fielder.
If anyone can buck the aging decline and put up some Hank Aaron-type late 30s seasons, Pujols can…
’Course, I guess it depends in part on what you think Pujols real age is..
by VM on Jan 25, 2012 9:29 AM CST up reply actions
I cannot wait to see an aged Pujols here in about 4-5 years struggling.
Nothing would make me happier than sad Angel fans… Almost nothing.
by kchorton on Jan 25, 2012 9:36 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Then he might have to see a SURGEON
by kchorton on Jan 25, 2012 9:53 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
You think he's overweight?
He just looks very muscular to me.
by elchicodelgado on Jan 25, 2012 11:19 AM CST up reply actions
Well there's a chance Pujols is already in his late 30s
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
I wonder why that isn't more talked about
Does Pujols really look like a guy that was born in the 80’s?
by corbsclinton on Jan 25, 2012 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
No
Not enough zippers on his jacket.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 25, 2012 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
I'd say Fielder
Both are terrible contracts, but with Fielder, at least you’re getting some <30 age seasons with him.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
The Fielder deal is worse, both in terms of marginal benefit and overall $/WAR
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Marginal benefit, yeah Fielder's is much worse there
but I’m not so sure about $/WAR. Last year, Fielder was a 5.5 fWAR player while Pujols was a 5.1 fWAR player. That’s far from the final word, but I can see Fielder at least maintaining that value for a couple more years. I don’t know that Pujols at 32+ years old is going to be able to keep up that level of play for another few years and he’s also getting paid about 50 million more to be about as valuable.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Yeah, I just feel like Pujols could still put together a 7-8 fWAR season, whereas Fielder never will.
So Pujols won’t need to perform nearly as well on the back end of his deal as Fielder will on his to justify the overall cost. In truth, it’s probably a wash. They’re equally bad.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Also
Fielder’s deal is much worse in the context of the team. i.e., defense gets much worse and the marginal improvement is very low.
With Pooholes, at least the LAA could justify it as they really needed an offensive boost.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
Pujols and the Angels
But he’s replacing one of their most valuable offensive players …
I think they would have been much better served trading for Wright and finding a way to get rid of Abreu, so Trout got more ABs
Don't the Rangers still have some leverage?
I believe as the employer you always have the leverage because we don’t have to sign you. Besides above average hitters are always available for a decent price, which brings up a question.
Would you rather have 120 games of a near-elite (generous?) hitter like Hamilton, or a full season of a solid .300, 25 HR, 80 RBI guy? (forgetting defense, baserunning, leadership).
by Apes and Androids on Jan 25, 2012 8:56 AM CST reply actions
I think the perceived "lack of leverage"
Is because losing Josh will be a huge PR mess and we lose a really good offensive player. If we had signed Prince he would have negated both the PR nightmare and offensive loss of losing Josh so now we may feel forced to sign Josh to avoid those things, hence lack of leverage.
The fact there are no true impact bats in FA next year also goes to that since replacing Josh wont be easy.
Would you have done 9-214 for Prince?
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 25, 2012 9:16 AM CST up reply actions
Okay, you seemed disappointed in not getting Prince.
Just wondering.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 25, 2012 9:25 AM CST up reply actions
I am
8/200 was my absolute max I would have been willing to go in both years and dollars.
8/180 was more where I thought he would end up and was fine with that.
I do think thought that JD now needs to do some serious magic to inject some talented youth into this lineup over the next 12 months.
Why serious magic?
Why not just stick with the plan in place? Surely JD realizes his lineup is pushing towards the over 30 side.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 25, 2012 9:29 AM CST up reply actions
Serious magic because the FA market the next couple years doesn't have a ton of young guys in it as far as I can tell
So its going to likely take trades which will likely cost a lot in terms of prospect value.
How is that serious magic?
Isn’t that the point of focusing on stocking your minor league system?
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 25, 2012 9:33 AM CST up reply actions
Its going to be serious magic to get the probably 2-3 guys we will need without completely emptying your system
Im not saying he doesn’t have the ammo just that I would prefer to not use it all up to replace only a couple guys when we could have possibly gotten one of them earlier this winter with just spending money.
I dont want to pay Josh wat hes going to demand in FA.
Napli appears headed for FA given his arb demands
And since we likely wont be able to trade for straight up replacements for those guys we probably need to upgrade at a position like 1B.
Just spending money
that pretty much everyone agrees will be dead money in a few years. This isn’t a video game.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 25, 2012 9:42 AM CST up reply actions
I said I wouldn't go 9/214 on Prince
But I would have offered 8/180 earlier in the spring instead of going after Darvish given this teams needs.
If he didn’t take it fine but Prince would have been my first priority and now that we didn’t get him its going to take a lot of prospects in trade to replace our aging offense over the next year or so.
And if Prince said no,
what was your next move?
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 25, 2012 9:47 AM CST up reply actions
I would have offered prince a 8/180-190 contract and given him a ultimatum
The Darvish activity would have allowed us to do that.
Tell the Prince camp he is our first priority but we need to know now otherwise we are going another direction.
He turns you down you turn to Yu.
I knew all along some team would money whip him. As much as people try and formulate how players are only worth X amount and teams shouldn’t overpay it always happens with these elite FA.
So you would have done,
what the Rangers did. Got it.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 25, 2012 9:53 AM CST up reply actions
If thats how it ended up in the end I wouldn't have been as upset no
But the way things played out I think we had our priorities out of whack.
How about signing Cespedes
and Soler. That would inject a some youth without giving up prospects. You just don’t know though if they are going to be players. Roll the dice.
No, if you sign them you keep them
the Rangers need more OF prospects.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Soler is a few years away from helping a ML club
And im not as high on Cespedes as others. Definitely not for the rumored prices that have been thrown around.
True his strike was missing in
the winter league but he put up monster numbers in the cuban league. Let him sit in AAA with Leonys and get ready for 2013.
I was assured Prince signing elsewhere has absolutely no bearing on the chances of resigning Josh
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
"I just wanna go gay." - bigtill
You really think our owners
wouldn’t ink both of them for the right deal? They paid $100M for a guy that hasn’t pitched an inning in the majors. Rich people don’t stay rich by giving their money away.
by corbsclinton on Jan 25, 2012 10:08 AM CST up reply actions
wat
Anger logic's so great I kinda forget what we saw in regular logic in the first place.
"I just wanna go gay." - bigtill
by colonialbob on Jan 25, 2012 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
I thought you were making a reference to
yesterday’s thread that you didn’t buy that the two didn’t have anything to with each other.
by corbsclinton on Jan 25, 2012 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
What would you offer Josh that he might be enticed to sign this off-season?
It’s gonna have to be at least 6 years.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Cut him loose for draft picks?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Here we go, again
Writer for Defending Big D
by Brandon Bibb on Jan 25, 2012 9:26 AM CST up reply actions
This time, with exciting new angles on the question!
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Yes
Let him put up whatever kind of line he puts up in 2012 and then say “Thanks for the memories” while he signs a long term deal with another club.
Now if he goes out in 2012 and has another injury riddled year and puts up a slightly above average line then i think his price drops enough where you can talk to him about a 3-4 year deal without insulting him but that time is not now
Josey thinks Josh would have signed a team friendly deal after his MVP campaign.
by VM on Jan 25, 2012 9:30 AM CST up reply actions
I never said "team-friendly."
I said the cost would have been less after 2010 than it’s going to be right now.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
And this to players like Josh, Cobra, Ian and Napoli.
You’re a fucking idiot if you sign a team-friendly deal…look at the money being thrown around right now and that’s with the Mets & Dodgers on the sidelines.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Werth, A-Gon, and Crawford got huge deals last offseason
Hamilton, coming off an MVP season, would have been expecting something like what they got. Is that the type of deal you want to sign him for?
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
That's why you're much more pro-active...sitting around waiting
for the price to fall rarely works….what happens is that some dumbass will give Worth a 7/132 deal or whatever it was he signed and now Josh wants at least that (he’s much better player than Werth) when he gets to free agency.
If Josh leaves, do you think the price goes down on Napoli?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Jan 25, 2012 10:08 AM CST up reply actions
So then we should have extended him before the 2010 offseason?
Because A-Gon was pretty much guaranteed 100+ million dollars the second he went to Boston, and Werth and Crawford both signed in early December. I guess the Rangers could have abandoned their efforts to re-sign Cliff Lee and bring in Adrian Beltre and concentrate on extending Hamilton in the hopes that he wasn’t expecting well over 100 million after his MVP season (even though he was). Of course, we don’t get Lee or Beltre if that’s the case, and if the negotiations with Hamilton take more than a few weeks, Werth and Crawford sign for 120+ million dollar deals.
The price for Napoli doesn’t change if Josh is here or not. Napoli isn’t giving the Rangers a discount on his contract and he sure as hell isn’t going to ask for more from the Rangers than other teams just because Hamilton isn’t here.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
As I'm sure AJM is thinking right now
2010 was Hamilton’s first elite year in his entire career. The year before that he was average at best, bad at worst.
Signing him to anything in 2010 wouldn’t have made sense for either side. Hamilton would have wanted to get paid for his 2010, which was amazing. The Rangers would have wanted to pay him based on his risk factor and entire body of work, which is less amazing. The sides would have been much too far apart to even think about a long-term deal at that point. At least not in the length that it would have taken to lock him up.
We can look at things in hindsight if we want to and apply what we know now to back then, but in 2010 Josh Hamilton was a player with one fantastic year on his resume and a lot of question marks.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Which is why I think its impossible for a deal to have been made between the 2 sides
before Werth and Crawford set the mark at the 120+ million dollars that Josey keeps bitching about.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
And not to mention that we had other priorities at the time that were big-money deals.
Namely Cliff Lee and Adrian Beltre.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
The Contract that Hamilton keeps pointing to as the baseline
was the Werth Contract that was signed on December 5, 2010. That’s the contract that took everything up a few notches.
At that point, Josh had two years left with the Rangers before he could hit free agency.
Josh ended up settling for a 2/24 deal and the LSB reaction was truly sickening…acting as though this was a good thing…does it look like a good thing now?
No it doesn’t because Josh wants a Worth Contract starting with next year.
Why not be pro-active? Before somebody like Washington doles out a contract like that to Worth, why don’t you tack on a 5/90 to the 2/24 you gave Josh? That’s what Hunter signed for with the Angels…that makes the deal 7/114 starting with last year.
Josh would have been starting a 5/90 in 2013 and that would have been a good deal for the Rangers and something he may have signed…but not now…because the price very rarely goes down.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I don't think Hamilton's salary demands...
…for his post-free-agency years have changed since the end of the 2010 season.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 25, 2012 9:56 AM CST up reply actions
You don't think the Werth Contract changed the game?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
No
I think those are the types of dollars Hamilton was talking about for his post-f.a. years to begin with.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 25, 2012 9:59 AM CST up reply actions
We strongly disagree...how many other 30-something
OF’s signed a 7/132 deal before Worth?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Jan 25, 2012 10:14 AM CST up reply actions
Werth
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 25, 2012 10:15 AM CST up reply actions
That Werth contract was a stupid contract and you know it
This FO has shown they are not going to sign stupid contracts…if you are wanting this FO to move forward with Werth numbers for Hamilton, you may as well just stop right now and say your goodbyes to Hamilton.
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jan 25, 2012 10:27 AM CST up reply actions
Yes, the Werth Contract was stupid but it
set the new baseline….how many other good premium 30 something OFs had contracts like that before Werth?
Sitting around waiting for the price to go down didn’t work…just like it didn’t work with CJ…when the hell has that strategy ever worked?
And per this FO and stupid contracts…they just made $ 110 million investment in a pitcher who has never recorded an out in The Show.
These same people also gave $ 100 million in contracts to Millwood, Padilla, Harden and BWebb.
And noneother than AJM called the Beltre Contract “ridiculous.”
They’ve definitely had their hits as well but don’t act like they’re incapable of a stupid contract.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Jan 25, 2012 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
WELP
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 25, 2012 10:43 AM CST up reply actions
Uhhhh.
when did we sign Brandon Webb for $100 mil?
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
He's just tacking Harden and BWebb into the group with Millwood and Padilla because it makes them look worse.
Incredibly disingenuous.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Maybe Josey is a Congressman.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
It's $ 100 million invested by the same
person who invested $110 million in a pitcher who has yet to record an out in The Show.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Jan 25, 2012 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
AJM, do you want to respond to this?
And noneother than AJM called the Beltre Contract "ridiculous."
I don’t recall that happening.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
I do...the numbers being kicked around
at the time were something like 6/90 (which was before Beltre signed) and AJM said 6/90 would have been a ridiculous contract.
Beltre got a 6/96 deal (as long as he hits certain incentives).
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Jan 25, 2012 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
Well...
Given your stance on him breaking down… 600 PA in the last year or 1200 PA combined seems very unlikely.
You want to still possess the cake after consuming it.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Do you think Beltre will hit the necessary incentives to get that 6th year?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Jan 25, 2012 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
the proper response is
“oh, i meant to say, 5/80.”
No.
I didn’t think he would the day he signed it and I haven’t since.
The MLB PA does not think he will either. It is listed as a 5/$80M contract everywhere. The last year is considered a difficult to achieve vesting option.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Josh didn't sign his 2/24 deal until 2/11/11
So the Werth contract was already signed by then. Why would he have accepted a 5/90 tacked onto the end of that after the Werth deal was already inked when thats the baseline he is looking for and has been since it was signed?
You go hard after Josh before Werth signed his deal.
What was the cost for a premium OF at that point?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Jan 25, 2012 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
OK
And I disagree that Josh would have accepted a Torii Hunter level contract literally days after winning the MVP award
It's better than Tori Hunter's deal...it's 7/114.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Jan 25, 2012 10:19 AM CST up reply actions
Here's an interesting tidbit for you
Werth in his Phillies career:
.282/.380/.506 line (130 OPS+) averaging ~136 games a year including 159 and 156 games played in his last 2 seasons
Hamilton in his Texas career to date:
.311/.366/.541 line (134 OPS+) averaging ~125 games a year including 121 and 133 games played in his last 2 seasons.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Alfonso Soriano
8 years, $136 million.
Matt Holliday
7 years, $120 million.
There were other big outfield deals before Werth.
Soriano was a free agent and Holliday was about to be
a free agent when they signed their deals.
Hamilton was two years away from free agency when I think the Rangers should have been more aggressive.
A 7/114 would have been in line.
They waited around and then Werth signed his deal…the game changed and the price went up just like it did with CJ.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Jan 25, 2012 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
Oh dear, whatever will we do?

Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
even for you
this stance is beyond dumb.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
I don't think he signs this offseason for anything less than what Jayson Werth signed for a year ago
And even that might not be enough.
And it would be foolish to give him that deal.
I think what happens is the Rangers keep the door open and let him test the free agent waters this offseason. If the Yankees or the Dodgers want to give him a Werth-type deal, then take the draft picks and wish him well.
I think it is more likely, though, that he’s going to find that there aren’t teams willing to go 7 years for him, that the market isn’t what he thinks it is, and if that’s the case, there’s a reasonable chance he ends up re-signing with Texas.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 25, 2012 9:34 AM CST up reply actions
I used to think that,
until the Tigers gave Prince 9 years. Again, there is always one.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 25, 2012 9:36 AM CST up reply actions
If that's the case
So be it.
My position on how I think Josh will age is on record.
And ZiPS, of course, thinks he’s going to crash and burn in his mid-30s.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 25, 2012 9:36 AM CST up reply actions
And the Rangers are more than a little screwed at that point.
You gonna bring in Nick Swisher as his replacement? He’ll be too expensive given his production.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
The Rangers were supposedly screwed last offseason when they didn't re-sign post-season Koufax
They were supposedly screwed this offseason when C.J. went to the Angels.*
* And by the way, I miss your "the Rangers are broke because they spent all their money on Beltre meme that you had going for a while.
Now they’re going to be screwed in 2013 because the guy who was probably the 4th or 5th best player on the team last year may leave.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 25, 2012 9:58 AM CST up reply actions 7 recs
I guess it was a huge coincidence they went 14-22 when he was hurt in April / May
and that thingy about scoring nearly 1.5 more runs per game when he played was another coincidence.
4th or 5th best player? He’s the second best hitter they had when leaving the friendly confines of Arlington.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Jan 25, 2012 10:18 AM CST up reply actions
Thank you for finally realizing this!
They WERE both coincidences!
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
by ghtd36 on Jan 25, 2012 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Pretty much
If Hamilton alone is worth 1.5 runs per game, then he’s the greatest player in the history of baseball.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 25, 2012 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And Josey spoke it,
and it was so.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 25, 2012 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
You're calling it a coincidence because his presence
in the line-up is something cannot be accurately captured.
I’m leery of words like intangibles and presence myself but it’s idiotic to ignore it because you can’t capture it.
Go back to the Colorado Rox when Hurdle was fired and Tracy was hired. Was that massive turnaround only a coincidence?
Hell no it wasn’t but you can’t really capture what Tracy meant to the team because that would mean he’s the greatest manager in the history of MLB…just like you’re saying Hamilton is the greatest player in the history of MLB.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Jan 25, 2012 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
lol
I love it when you state some horrible opinion as a fact.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
What JW won't admit is that Nelson and Josh were on the DL
at the same time. And they both came back at basically the same time, and that is where most of that 1.5 scoring average per game is up. And for awhile, remember when there were no original starting outfielders playing at the same time because of injuries? No, Nellie and Josh came back hot of the DL and an assignment in Round Rock. And this is ignored, but by AJM.
Can't be coincidence, it must mean something
If Hamilton is in the lineup and they score 1.5 more runs per game with him than without him, then using my awesome math skills that gives you 243 runs over a full season. But Josh doesn’t play 162 games, so lets take it down to 130 games so he’s only worth 195 runs.
Holy crap, Hamilton is a 19.5 WAR player everybody!!!!
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Lead around by the nose.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 25, 2012 10:29 AM CST up reply actions
Get your rake, Woodcock
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Jan 25, 2012 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
GOOD ONE!!!
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 25, 2012 10:49 AM CST up reply actions
quick, sign him to
a 10 year, $600M contract.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
We'll still get surplus value!!!!
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
exactly, heh heh
but then the Tigers would step in and offer a billion or so.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Hmmm
In what year will the first Billion Dollar Deal be signed?
I’ll set the O/U at 2034. Place your bets!
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Is A-Rod still playing for the Yankees at that time?
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Assuming $250M in 2012 dollars is the max anyone will ever offer
And an 8% increase annually in player salaries, it should be 2029.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 25, 2012 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
Heheheh
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Not the best assumption
Inflation, according to the Consumer Price Index, hasn’t been at 8% since the early 80s. Try about 2080 maybe.
Baseball salary inflation
Is not the same thing as the CPI
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
by t ball on Jan 25, 2012 12:58 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Conservatively speaking, of course.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Before he
got here the Rangers had never been to a World Series but since he has gotten here the Rangers have been to two straight. His name? Thats right Mark Lowe, lock him up he is the key to this thing
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
by Michael Cave on Jan 25, 2012 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Mark Lowe: the new MUTRIHOF.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
I'm with you.
Just pointing it out.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 25, 2012 9:41 AM CST up reply actions
Why's that a bad feeling?
That would be great. In the NL, off our hands.
by kchorton on Jan 25, 2012 9:39 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
well if AJM supposed that no one wants to go long term with josh
he might stick around for a reasonable contract.
I'm curious to see the consensus of LSB on "no one will go long-term on Josh" is...
by kchorton on Jan 25, 2012 9:46 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I think for the most part, no team will want to touch Josh on a 6-7 year deal
but the Dodgers are the team that I think are most likely to money whip him there. They’ll want a big name signing with new ownership and Hamilton would fit that perfectly.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Oh yeah you can bet there will be teams that will offer Josh that
We’ve seen crazier stuff happen the last couple of offseasons.
by RangersfaninROK on Jan 25, 2012 10:03 AM CST up reply actions
I don't know how many teams will be out there
Most of the big contracts go to players who have pretty healthy resumes. At least heading into their FA year, they were able to play a whole season. Pujols, A-Gon, Fiedler, Crawford, and Werth for example were guys you would count to play 160 games or so in a season.
Looking at the highest paid players in the league right now, I really can’t find anyone who has the injury history that Hamilton does getting signed to a huge deal in recent history. Joe Mauer might be the only one but he is also a catcher, which puts him in an even more unique situation with comparable contracts. Tulowitzki is another guy with some significant injury history, but he also signed as an early 20s perennial MVP candidate.
So it will be interesting to see how the FA market treats a guy like Josh, especially if he ends up missing 40 or so games again this year.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
I think somebody will go 6 years with Josh and he'll get a Werth Contract
if he puts up a season somewhere between 2008 & 2010.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Somebody will.
Mainly because he will be one of the few (if not the only) impact bats on the market next year.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
Same reason Marlins offered CJ
105 this winter.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 25, 2012 11:03 AM CST up reply actions
Unless some team does something crazy
I wouldn’t be surprised to see him re-sign here late in the offseason.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
When has that ever happened in Texas other than with VPadilla?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I wasn't predicting it
but it could happen if he’s disappointed in the market. I’d put the odds at around 30%.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
GMJ got 5/50 5 years ago...why in the hell would Josh sign for fewer years than GMJ?
The price doesn’t go down, t ball.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Yeah, see, 30% means
it’s more likely he’s gone. That’s what that relatively low percentage means.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
by t ball on Jan 25, 2012 10:02 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
and GMJ's contract is known as a terrible contract
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Or a likable contract
to us anyways
by RangersfaninROK on Jan 25, 2012 10:06 AM CST up reply actions
I think we should all be able to
agree on the fact that Hamilton is very much a unique case in a lot of regards so comparing him to past situations or players is pretty foolish
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
by Michael Cave on Jan 25, 2012 10:11 AM CST up reply actions
yes, they actually have quite a bit still
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, jonthefon, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
Based on comments made
There is no way Josh signs only a 4 year guaranteed deal right now
Maybe next winter if thats as long as anyone offers but right now I think it has to be 6 years guaranteed to make him sign and that hopefully makes us not sign him
I want no part of a Hamilton extension
the years and the AAV are going to be to high imo, for someone who will miss 40-50 games per season.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
x
“Never say never,” said Pirates GM Neal Huntington to Jeff Nelson and Jim Memolo of MLB Network Radio when asked about a potential Andrew McCutchen trade. “If someone wants to back up the truck and give us one of those organization-altering deals, it’s something that we’d have to listen to…It would have to be a dramatic overpay on the part of the other club.”
Everybody needs somebody to love... I need Yu, Yu, Yu! I need Yu, Yu, Yu!
I hope I haven't offended the Blues Brothers with this.
Like Profar, Marteen, Olt, Leoyns
and Robbie Ross
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
Sometimes I feel protective of our top prospects and would hate to see them go
But then sometimes I think they’re unproven talent and what we could receive in return (McCutchen) would be a nice addition to the team immediately
by assmaster on Jan 25, 2012 9:17 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Sometimes you feel like a nut.
Sometimes you don’t.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 25, 2012 9:17 AM CST up reply actions
most of the time nut
but that’s ok
by assmaster on Jan 25, 2012 9:20 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
You really drill down to the core of things, assmaster.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
You do seem to get to the bottom of things.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
damn, your's is better.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
nah I like your's more, jam
provides better imagery
by assmaster on Jan 25, 2012 9:26 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Only an assmaster could "drill down to the core" though.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
What exactly does one study to become a mastery of ass?
by kchorton on Jan 25, 2012 9:32 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
No they aren't
A proctologist is a colo-rectal surgeon, although no one calls them proctologists anymore.
by Aircooled on Jan 25, 2012 10:12 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
People can call themselves many things
But a GI doc is not trained in surgical procedures so they would be unable to treat 95% of the things someone would go to a proctologist for.
More than anyone ever wanted to know about AssMen!!
by Aircooled on Jan 25, 2012 10:22 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
uh... they can do biopsies and endoscopic procedures
as well as redioscopic coiling for bleeding vessels… so…
I don't know any GI docs
That do endovascular coiling for bleeding vessels, that’s done by interventional radiology or vascular surgery.
They certainly cant do hemorrhoidectomies, fistula repairs or fissure repairs…
by Aircooled on Jan 25, 2012 10:34 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
So that's what proctologists do...
by Aircooled on Jan 25, 2012 10:40 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
But it isn't really worth arguing about.
by Aircooled on Jan 25, 2012 10:41 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I would just like to draw everyone's attention
to the fact that this conversation actually happened.
Honey Badger don't give a shit!
I learned a lot this AM
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Ryin A on Jan 26, 2012 3:47 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
assmastery- its a way of life
It could be sexual, medical, or philosophical. But, I prefer to keep my intentions unknown.
by assmaster on Jan 25, 2012 9:40 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Philosophical Assmastery
Is that “mind over matter”?
or
“I tapped that, therefore it is mine.”
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
"I tapped that, therefore it is tapped"
by kchorton on Jan 25, 2012 9:47 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
"An ass in motion tends to stay in motion"
Wait, that’s physics.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
Id do whatever it took
not to include Profar in any deals (eerie feeling that Andrus is going to bolt and Profar will be a perfect replacement). What about Harrison, Marteen, Olt, Leonys, and a lower level arm for McCutchen?
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
by Michael Cave on Jan 25, 2012 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
No joke.
As in just make Round Rock and Frisco Pirates affiliates to save travel costs.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 25, 2012 9:17 AM CST up reply actions
That would be funny.
Ladies and gentleman, we have traded for McCutcheon. On another note, Frisco and Round Rock are now Pirates affilliates because all of those guys were involved in the trade. Thank you.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 25, 2012 9:54 AM CST up reply actions
No, go away:
It wouldn’t surprise many if Oswalt, who now seeks a one-year deal, signs in Boston, but two general managers think he wants to join the Rangers and another says he’d like to sign in St. Louis, tweets Peter Gammons of MLB Network.
Oswalt would like to join Mike Maddux and Nolan Ryan with the Rangers, Gammons reports. However, both of last year’s World Series teams enter the 2012 season will rotations that appear to be full.
From MLBTR
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 25, 2012 9:27 AM CST reply actions
Not with a bad back.
Lots of stairs.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 25, 2012 9:28 AM CST up reply actions
Hamilton contract offer
I’d offer 5/$90 at most, with an option for a 6th year that doesn’t change that AAV. Bonuses for games finished and MVP award votes, of course. At that dollar value, starting with a projected 4.5WAR the Rangers basically break even assuming 5% inflation over the life of the deal.
Hamilton’s 2011 numbers were similar to his career avg. I think assuming anymore than 120 games and 4.5WAR is dangerous. He won’t accept that deal (unless no one beats it) but it’s the most I’d offer. His agent could say it’s a 6 year deal for over $100M.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
5/90 is way more than I'd want to give him guaranteed
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
It's a bit risky, but reasonably so
but if that ended up being the terms I could live with it. At that level, Hamilton is acknowledging that he’s likely to average about 120-125 games worth of production. And at the current $4.5M per WAR with the usual decline of .5WAR per year it’s a reasonable price. That’s 17.5 WAR over 5 years, do you think that’s unreasonable?
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
and that is making 2012 the first year of the deal, by the way.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
I think given his age and injury past, I wouldn't expect him to average 120-125 games per season
I’m okay with the Rangers paying him a lot of money, but I would want to see some huge roster bonuses similar to what Yu just got. Give him something like 12 million a year but with something like 3-5 million in various roster bonuses per year based on DL time. You can work in plenty of award incentives in there too. I want to see Hamilton and the Rangers come to terms on a contract that will protect them significantly in the likely case that Hamilton plays something like 50-80 games in one season.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Ok, then his agent will just throw up his hands
and never talk to the team again. $12M in AAV is just insulting no matter how many bonuses you put in there. I’m not actually projecting a certain number of games, I’m projecting a likely range of production over the life of the contract. Sure, he might play only 50-80 games in one season, but he also might put up 7-8 WAR one more time. You have to balance those things out.
You can’t offer a contract that is based on your worst assumptions and fears. Signing any player to a long term deal involves risk. If you can’t accept even a reasonable amount of risk based on sensible projections, just say you’re not going to re-sign any of your impending free agents.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
He may never talk to the team again
and I’m okay with that if that’s the case.
He’s been worth more than 4.1/4.2 WAR once in his career in 2010. He may have another chance at that this season, but beyond then, I don’t feel comfortable at all on betting on him to put up anything close to an 8 WAR season. I think you’re looking at a guy that will basically be a 4 WAR player over the next 5 years. That may be because he just isn’t hitting well enough to be better or because he is only play 120 games of great production. Either way, something like 4 WAR is what I would consider a likely average season for Hamilton in the duration of this contract.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
a 4 WAR player
Over that time is worth a lot more than that. My projection was for less than that averaged out over the life of the deal.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
by t ball on Jan 25, 2012 11:14 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
In other words
You are offering waaaayyyyy less than market for about 20 WAR while I am offering about market for 17.5 WAR.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
by t ball on Jan 25, 2012 11:17 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
4 WAR per year is the best case I would hope for for Hamilton in those years
I don’t think he’s a lock to be a 4 WAR player in each of those years. Beyond that, a 4 WAR player is far from an elite player. With his injury history, I wouldn’t want to pay him 18 million guaranteed. We can likely find a 3 WAR player for much, much less than that in dollars or prospects.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Then you don't bother to make an offer at all in that case
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
And he may very well get it too
The market for lefty big bats is pretty barren. And there are always teams that go crazy. I’m just hoping that the Rangers aren’t that team.
by RangersfaninROK on Jan 25, 2012 10:08 AM CST up reply actions
considering that he'll miss 25% of the season
giving him 18M per year for 3/4 of the season would be the equivalent of about 22M for a full season
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
I hope Hamilton puts up another MVP season
It will be a nice farewell season to have for Hamilton that will end with a Rangers WS victory.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Even though it would probably
never happen it would be really interesting in the near future if a player signed an agreement that assigned value to fWar (what is it 4.5 mil per win?) and then any incentive was based on that. If the player has a 6 win season then the team pays them 27 mil, if that player has a 1 win season then they get 4.5 mil. I know it will never happen though…
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
by Michael Cave on Jan 25, 2012 10:16 AM CST up reply actions
so then they owe the club money for a negatve fwar?
does that mean v-mart gets paid nothing next year?
Any more and you are getting a cease and desist from chromasters balls inc. - Chromaster
by Mr. Abe Froman on Jan 25, 2012 10:18 AM CST up reply actions
It won't happen,
because players will never agree to a performance based pay scale that involves metrics they don’t understand and are admittedly not perfect.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 25, 2012 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
The front office woudn't either.
There’s too much variance in either direction.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
It's actually not even allowed
As Major League Rule 3(b)(5) says: “No Major League Uniform Player’s Contract or Minor League Uniform Player Contract shall be approved if it contains a bonus for playing, pitching or batting skill or if it provides for the payment of a bonus contingent on the standing of the signing Club at the end of the championship season.”
Incentives are basically limited to games played, innings pitched, etc. Then there are award bonuses, but you can’t even tie incentives to homeruns, let alone WAR.
I would do that
if we the first year of the 5 yr contract is next year. One year arb and 4 yrs fa.
About that article on Darvish's goal
This is what Darvish basically said in his farewell speech to the Nippon Ham fans. I translated this myself, so parts of it (or most of it) might not be smooth or accurate:
“I’ve said in the past that I do not wish to play in America, and originally even thought that I would rather quit playing baseball than play in the Majors. But the circumstances have changes since then. As a ball player, I take joy in competing with and beating my opponents. But nowadays people tell me to ‘go easy’ on the batters. I crave for fierce competition. I want the batters that I face to really come at me and try to knock me down. That’s the kind of competition that I desire. But lately it has been hard for me to keep myself motivated. I feel at home here in the Japanese league but in order to quench my thirst for competition, I felt the need to go play in the Majors. I’ve thought long and hard about this, but in the end I decided that I needed a change of scenery.”
“I entrusted the entire negotiation process to my agent. He told me that the negotiations would go down to the wire. I never really cared much about the size of the contract that I would get. I haven’t watched a whole lot of MLB games and thus am not familiar with the league, but the Texas FO and the players gave me a warm welcome and made me feel at home, kind of like how I feel here at Nippon Ham. My goal is to become a pitcher that the people would immediately think of when asked who the best pitcher in the world is.”
I’ve heard that Yu as a youth tried very hard to fit into the Japanese society. Far Eastern countries like Japan or Korea are monoracial and their societies sometimes tend to be exclusive to people of foreign or biracial origins like Yu. This is why Yu developed a strong desire to prove himself so that he can accepted into the society. Thus, he preferred to play in the Japanese league where he can pitch in front of the Japanese people. This was to explain why Yu said he did not want to play in the Majors. It’s not because he had something against MLB or America.
But recently, he seemed to be losing his focus on the game. He would experiment things during the middle of regular season games. He would suddenly change his repertoire of pitches (probably the main reason why he is reported to have so many types pitches), change his pitching mechanics, and in some games he purposely would not throw a single four seamer. The funny thing is, despite all this his stats continued to be off the charts. He was that much better than his competion. It’s no surprise he could not keep himself motivated in Japan. And this is why he changed his mind and decided to play in the Majors.
This is very much like how Ichiro was in the later years of his Japanese career. Ichiro was so far above his peers in terms of baseball prowess that he did not even have to try hard to be the very best in Japan, so he had trouble keeping himself motivated. Thus he chose to play in the Majors, where he has established himself as HoF caliber player. I wish Yu would follow in Ichiro’s footsteps and become a great player in the the big leagues.
by RangersfaninROK on Jan 25, 2012 9:57 AM CST reply actions 5 recs
I think I'm already in love with Yu!
by Aircooled on Jan 25, 2012 10:46 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I appreciate your perspective.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Good stuff,
thanks
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
Thank you sir.
Nice read.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
Good read.
Rec’d
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
Sign all the Cubans. All of them.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
all your Cubans belong to us
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
Team full of Cubans and Japanese.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 25, 2012 10:26 AM CST up reply actions
Gift for the ladies

If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Dear Rangers, Make me forget about 2010.......
by matthewbschultz83 on Jan 25, 2012 10:38 AM CST reply actions
Totally buying a pair
For the wife as a gag V-Day present!
by Aircooled on Jan 25, 2012 11:04 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Make sure you say: "I Love Yu."
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
He stole Young's hammer?
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, jonthefon, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
Hammerton
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, jonthefon, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
FivetonHammer
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
X

"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel

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