Roy Oswalt and Matt Harrison
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 25, 2012 9:55 AM CST
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PrintWith Prince Fielder now off the market, the one player the Rangers have been linked to who is still out there is Roy Oswalt. Oswalt has expressed an interest in coming to Texas, Nolan Ryan has connections with Oswalt dating back to when Oswalt was a minor leaguer, and it has been suggested that the Rangers would prioritize Oswalt if they couldn't get Fielder.
With Oswalt in the fold, Matt Harrison would end up joining Alexi Ogando in moving to the bullpen after a full year of starting in 2012.
Here's what I don't get about this, though...
How would replacing Harrison with Oswalt make the Rangers better?
Let's just look at what they did last season:
| Year | Age | Tm | Lg | W | L | G | GS | IP | H | R | ER | HR | BB | SO | |||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2011 | 25 | TEX | AL | 14 | 9 | .609 | 3.39 | 31 | 30 | 185.2 | 180 | 79 | 70 | 13 | 57 | 126 | 131 | 1.276 | 8.7 | 0.6 | 2.8 | 6.1 | 2.21 |
| Year | Age | Tm | Lg | W | L | G | GS | IP | H | R | ER | HR | BB | SO | |||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2011 | 33 | PHI | NL | 9 | 10 | .474 | 3.69 | 23 | 23 | 139.0 | 153 | 60 | 57 | 10 | 33 | 93 | 105 | 1.338 | 9.9 | 0.6 | 2.1 | 6.0 | 2.82 |
A 3.69 ERA and a 105 ERA+ for Oswalt, in a year where he missed significant time with injury, compared to a 3.39 ERA and a 131 ERA+ for Harrison.
And if you want to go defense-independent with your stats, Oswalt had a 3.44 FIP and a 3.95 xFIP for an fWAR of 2.5. Harrison had a 3.52 FIP and a 3.85 xFIP for an fWAR of 4.2.
Harrison pitched better than Oswalt, in the tougher league and in the league with a DH.
And we want to replace Harrison with Oswalt?
Granted, 2011 was Harrison's best season, by far, and 2011 was Oswalt's worst season. It isn't unreasonable to expect Harrison to regress and Oswalt to improve.
Of course, there's the age issue to factor in...Harrison is 26, while Oswalt is 34. Harrison is entering what one would expect to be his best years, while Oswalt is at an age where you would expect him to decline, particularly given the back issues that had him talking retirement at one point last season.
ZiPS isn't optimistic about a big Oswalt rebound in 2012, projecting him (as a Phillie) to put up a 108 ERA+ in 154 innings. The ZiPS projections for the Rangers aren't out at this point, but I'd be willing to wager that it projects Harrison to at least match those numbers.
So what's the appeal of this move for the Rangers? It seems to me that, if they are really serious about adding Oswalt and having him replace Harrison in the rotation, it is either because 1) they believe 2011 was a fluke year for Harrison, or 2) they see what Gio Gonzalez, Trevor Cahill and other good pitchers who are under team control are fetching on the trade market, and think they can replace Harrison's production while adding minor league talent. 1 and 2 aren't mutually exclusive, of course, and Texas could see Harrison as being at his peak value and wanting to move him now before he crashed back to earth.
It just seems weird to me, though, that an organization that has preached the importance of building its pitching staff from within is apparently considering replacing one of its homegrown pitchers, who is coming off a breakout season, with a free agent veteran with injury problems coming off a down year.
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Signing old, expensive players to short-term deals
at the expense of young, talented, cheap players with unreached ceilings sounds like the the opposite of what needs to happen. And frankly, that doesn’t sound much like our front office anymore.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
Yes. We'll need to update our understanding of the "Rangers Model" if this happens.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Oswalt is a broke dick dog.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
Like much that is written about this team, it is just rampant speculation.
Oswalt could simply be insurance/depth. Unlike year’s past, FA’s are looking for a way into Arlington, and also unlike year’s past, the FO isn’t choosing from Pedro Astascio, Gallaraga or Feldman. He’s just a “local” looking to finish out close to home. If his back heals up, he could be valuable.
I sports hate you CJ.
The fascination with Oswalt mystifies me.
There’s absolutely no reasonable basis for predicting that Oswalt will improve in 2012, given his current age and recent health predicaments. Harrison’s the better pitch today, next year, and thereafter. Oswalt is done.
Which makes me wonder whether Oswalt is insurance (and I use the term “insurance” very loosely here) for Feliz—whose control problems last year could be attributed to physical problems—not a replacement for Harrison.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I am so down on Oswalt because of his age and injuries...
I’d rather just have Scott Feldman be that insurance.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Oh, me too. No question.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Not me,
but I don’t consider Oswalt to be a better option than Harrison. I personally don’t have that much confidence in Feldman. If the Rangers get Oswalt, I would think it would be because they are going to trade Harrison or Ogando or both possibly for a better first base option, or possibly for a hot shot outfield prospect. Who’s that guy from Pittsburgh….McCutcheon? That seems unlikely, and I am not sure McCutcheon would be worth Harrison and Ogando in a straight up trade.
Be sure that McCutchen would be worth Harrison and Ogando in a straight-up trade.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I have no desire to see Matt Harrison in the bullpen.
On a list of crazy things… that’s high.
If they want veteran grit… trade Harry.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Why this order, though?
Why not have traded Harrison, already… then sign Oswalt? Seems like you look desperate to deal him if you sign Oswalt first.
Well... they haven't done either.
And it wouldn’t surprise if they’ve been shopping Harrison all winter long.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Now is the time to roll with Harrison and Holland
Last year was the question mark year and both passed with flying colors
Put them out there every 5th day and let them pitch. We have a core of starters here under team control for at least 3 more years (Harrison, Holland, Feliz, and Yu)
I think JDs obsession with acquiring pitching has gone too far.
What we need now I think is a couple veterans on minor league deals as early season injury insurance until Perez and/or Ramirez are ready come summer time
You think JD is pushing for Oswalt?
Because I don’t.
I think this a move to add veterany leadershippings… that doesn’t sound like JD to me.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I think JD is on board
He seems to have this obsession with adding pitching
Which a few years ago was fine since we had none. But now we have 4 guys under team control for a few years at least already locked in. I would hate to see a guy like Harrison pushed to the pen for some veteran like Oswalt.
I do think Nolan is the one leading the Oswalt charge but I think JD is in agreeance about it which annoys me
In the morning thread you talk about JD needing to pull magic to get offensive players because we didn't get Prince.
If he trades Harrison for future positional players… couldn’t that be part of that “magic” you want?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
That is different than pushing Harrison to the pen though
If we signed Oswalt and then turned around and traded Harrison, or Holland (since he would likely fetch more), I could accept that.
If we put either of those guys in the pen... then it will be incredibly stupid.
I can’t see that happening.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Sounds more like agent-leaked rumors to me. I'm not sure any Ranger's person really is interested.
Everybody needs somebody to love... I need Yu, Yu, Yu! I need Yu, Yu, Yu!
I hope I haven't offended the Blues Brothers with this.
I agree
It sounds like Nolan Ryan because he saw Oswalt come up in Round Rock, and have electric stuff that has translated into a good big league pitcher for most of his career. I’m not sure Nolan thinks 34 is that old for a pitcher of Oswalt’s talent. But then again, I have both my Nolan Ryan bobblehead and Roy Oswalt bobblehead on my bookshelf at work. I think this may irrationally influence me a little more than usual.
at some point your young players have to become your leaders
by RangerMad on Jan 25, 2012 11:55 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
I think the only way Roy O
winds up here is if there is a deal for Harrison. Putting Matt in the bullpen would retard his growth and make him less valuable in a potential trade.
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Dear Rangers, Make me forget about 2010.......
by matthewbschultz83 on Jan 25, 2012 10:14 AM CST reply actions
I'd rather see Ogando start than see Oswalt
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
I'd actually rather see Ogando in the pen.
I don’t think it’s impossible for Ogando to start… but I think his ultimate home is the pen. And as a VERY good late inning reliever.
With Ogando’s stuff and two pitch repertoire… I’d rather see him be a dominant late inning guy than a mediocre starter.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
This should be the consensus thinking around here, but it's not. And I can't figure out why.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Because I think there's room to discuss whether Ogando can continue to get better as a starter
and would thus become a more valuable commodity. But, I do tend to agree with Matchst1ck’s conclusion.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
and I don't disagree that he may ultimately be best suited for the 'pen
but I would still rather have him in the rotation than Oswalt. It’s not as though he couldn’t get stronger to be able to throw more innings, and I don’t discount the fact that he wants to start. I like that, especially if he shows drive and puts in the work. Fatigue was natural last year after pitching so many more innings than he ever had previously in his career.
Mechanics may be an issue long-term, but he has shown an ability to start and I wouldn’t mind seeing him get another shot.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Me, neither.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
Is the league equally down on him, I wonder
IF not, he should have enormous trade value as an All-Star SP in his rookie season, where his numbers only flamed out after fatigue hit.
He’s in his prime, costs the minimum, and has 4-5 yrs of control left… You can certainly get more than a dominant late-inning arm out of that, right?
Except that some of us think that Ogando has more than two pitchers...
especially if his arm isn’t tired. But we have been through this debate before and there is not much doubt that Ogando is headed to the bullpen.
I think if you can get a recently former ace for a good deal then you go for it.
This is a young pitching staff still and I think Oswalt would add a lot to it.
If you then can trade Harrison/Ogando/Feldman for 1B or CF help then that’s even better
Formerly Rangers121032
We want...#1 Josh #2 Barnet #10000000 Rhadigan
by LSU Ranger on Jan 25, 2012 10:36 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Being a former ace is irrelevant.
Is he still a good pitcher? Sure, when he’s healthy. But Harrison is better, and wouldn’t gain much from going back to the bullpen.
by Giant Space Ants on Jan 25, 2012 5:10 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
x
an organization that has preached the importance of building its pitching staff from within is apparently considering replacing one of its homegrown pitchers, who is coming off a breakout season, with a free agent veteran with injury problems coming off a down year.
Of course, this would be the second homegrown pitcher the Rangers would dump this offseason (the first, CJ, even more homegrown than Harrison), should they trade Harrison.
I’d be happy with half of what the Nationals got in a trade for Harrison, especially if it had a nice OF or 1B prospect in it. I dig Paul Goldschmidt of the D-Backs, and Harrison would be a really nice upgrade over Saunders/Collmenter.
But, here’s a trade idea inspired by matchst1ck. Harrison for Konerko. BTW, last year Konerko was willing to waive his 10/5 rights to go to D-Backs, but Williams asked for Goldschmidt and D-Backs backed out.
Is Harrison for Konerko worth the risk of aged players breaking down to get better production at 1B this year and next?
Everybody needs somebody to love... I need Yu, Yu, Yu! I need Yu, Yu, Yu!
I hope I haven't offended the Blues Brothers with this.
We didn't "dump" CJ, he left as a free agent.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
He could've waited until the Darvish thing played out to see if the Rangers had cash/interest in him.
I don’t think the Rangers are interested in paying market value for anything less than a perennial All Star.
Everybody needs somebody to love... I need Yu, Yu, Yu! I need Yu, Yu, Yu!
I hope I haven't offended the Blues Brothers with this.
Doesn't Konerko only have one year left on his contract?
I thought his contract was only until 2013
Two years left.
Harrison has his three arb years left.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Harrison for Konerko and Trayce Thompson.
I think I like this deal, but it feels scary to give up low cost production in the rotation, and I’m not sure the White Sox feel they need to add SP.
Everybody needs somebody to love... I need Yu, Yu, Yu! I need Yu, Yu, Yu!
I hope I haven't offended the Blues Brothers with this.
No thanks...
Defending Big D Check it out
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"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
Considering that Napoli and Face will get time at first base,
considering that Konerko is a right hander, I don’t think that helps the Rangers against right handed pitchers. If you are going to trade for a first base player to replace Mooreland I believe he should be a lefty.
soon to be 36-yr. old Konerko?
I don’t think the upgrade would be worth the cost.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
What makes you think Oswalt would be the Starter?
Has anyone within the organization said that Oswalt as a starter is what they intend to do?
I am not fan of adding Oswalt in any way, but i would see him more as a Reliever with our roster…
by Mantis Be Praised on Jan 25, 2012 10:42 AM CST reply actions
He's not going to sign here to be a middle reliever
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 25, 2012 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
well..has anyone considered that maybe its not Harrison that would be replaced
cuz you dont know how Feliz is gona transition..they could decide he needs some time in minors to fine tune if he is struggling
That would surprise me.
The organization seems to have made a strong commitment to Feliz starting.
Reports are he’s lost some weight and working hard… and they’ve stressed he needs to.
They’ve also had him working with Pedro Martinez to learn more about what being a starter means.
I think they view Feliz as a potential TORP and are grooming him as such.
I don’t think he’ll start in AAA unless he has a wretched spring and that the Rangers will expect him to break in the rotation.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Where was it reported that he lost weight?
I’d be interested to see that.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
x
ARLINGTON – Rangers RHP Neftali Feliz, who is attempting to convert back to being a starter after 2-plus seasons in the bullpen, has met once with former Cy Young Award winner Pedro Martinez about the process and the duo will get together for a throwing session sometime in the next month.
Martinez also transitioned from the bullpen to the rotation and had a similar pitching repertoire to Feliz. Martinez developed one of the most devastating changeups in major league history to supplement his hard fastball. Any young power pitcher – particularly with a good changeup – is compared to Martinez. For pitchers with that repertoire of Latin American lineage, the comparisons are even more prevalent.
“We had a good long talk and we are going to get together again,” Feliz said through an interpreter. “He said the big thing is mental approach. And that I have to trust all my pitches. I know I have to trust my changeup and slider more.”
Feliz has started throwing and has thrown one session off a mound. His winter, however, has been dominated by running. Feliz looked somewhat slimmer on Sunday than he did last year. He said he’s dropped about five pounds this winter and is currently at 220.
http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2012/01/neftali-feliz-getting-advice-f.html
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Nice.
I like that.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
what a difference 5 lbs makes
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
i really hope so..but that move for nathan at first jump
the reports of his action after game 6..Wash’s pushing him to use more than 1 pitch..and he struggled to do so..it was a preplanned manuever by JD..i think they want it to work but have to keep options open..cuz you dont want him a complete basket case
Where did Wash push him to use more than one pitch?
If anything, in Feliz’s history in the bullpen, it has been quite the opposite.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Ok, what does that have to do with Wash?
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Wash brought it up about his pitches and how he needed to be use off speed
more..it was down from 20% to 11% used last year..
Oh, it was?
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=18&position=P#pitchtype
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
I know that the Molina summit happened.
I wish it would happen more often. That link doesn’t prove what you said.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
your right i misread..the numbers were jumbled
but my point was Wash and others were trying to get him to vary his fastball more and were successful when he did..but it still was ok for reliever but I just dont think a 1 to 1and a half pitch pitcher is gona be very successful as a starter..with him working with Pedro trying to develop a changeup..its not gona happen overnight..i dont believe FO is gona watch him go out and struggle start after start if he starts struggling
Not so sure this is accurate.
I distinclty remember being pissed off early in the season when Wash was quoted as saying that he wanted Feliz to use his fastball often because it was such a dominant pitch. I’ve bitched and bitched to people about the lack of offspeed pitches last year by Feliz and Ogando.
And what was it that Freese said after the world series about sitting on a fastball?? Every team in the second half of the season sat on his and Ogando’s. I thought it was Torrealba and his lack of knowledge when it comes to calling a game, but who knows.
So, it’s a wonderful fucking thing that the word “Offspeed” is being said so much this offseason.
by Buddy Smokes on Jan 25, 2012 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
Oh....
and if you wish to call me a troll, go for it.
That’s what people do on this site when they get called out or proven wrong.
by Buddy Smokes on Jan 25, 2012 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
Do you know what a troll is?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I find an increasing number of people do not.
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
by philkid3 on Jan 25, 2012 2:00 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
"it has been suggested"?
bored at work AdMo?
Which part are y'all taking issue with?
That its been suggested the Rangers may sign Oswalt?
Or that he’d replace Harrison?
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 25, 2012 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
That the Rangers may sign Oswalt.
The only tangible links are Nolan saying he likes him (what would you expect him to say?) and that Oswalt likes to pitch close to home. This offseason, there’s been much more smoke around Oswalt to BOS/STL/CIN (although both STL and CIN might be out on him now), and it’s likely that the Rangers are included only because of the two things I mentioned and because the Rangers appear to be in on everyone.
If he was to sign, he’d replace Harrison but I imagine Harrison would be traded before spending a single day of the regular season in the pen.
That Gammons tweet is pretty flimsy.
2 GMs thinking that he wants to reunite with his AA pitching coach from over a decade ago?
Part of me wants to see a deal for a 1B
But the only ones I like are Billy Butler and Konerko. No one else will outproduce Mitch/MY/Napoli platoon and/or be worth the picks it would take to get them
before we jump ship on Moreland..id really like to see him have a full
injury free year to see what he can do..lets use the home grown talent
I think he could be a fairly decent MLB 1B
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 25, 2012 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
Numbers look fine to me
His OBP, SLG, and OPS are similar to Kinsler’s. Butler’s are .361 .461, and .822. and Ian’s are .355, .477, and .832. His OBP and BA are actually better. He does SO a little bit too much and could hit a little more HRS for my liking. Plus, I always assume people’s numbers will slightly increase hitting in RBiA. I don’t know why you’re acting like he’s the most God-awful player to ever play 1B. He would be an upgrade over Mitch.
Though I don't claim to be a sabermetric guru
So If I’m missing something, enlighten me (I mean this seriously not sarcastically)
The other thing is Kinsler's numbers are so impressive
because he provides plus defense at a premium position, 2b
If you are a defensive void at 1b, you need to hit to higher standard, ideally.
Didn't look up his defensive numbers
Is Konerko (the LSB choice for a trade) going to be much better at his age? What defensive stud at 1B who has a good but not elite bat could we get for Harrison and a prospect or two (not Profar, Perez)? I thought Pena would be alright on a one year deal since his D is so good, but he’s off the table
I'm leery of Konerko, personally
There aren’t a lot of good 1b options available for trade at the moment, it seems.
No point
Better to just see what Morelanddoes and trade in summr if needed.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
by t ball on Jan 25, 2012 11:34 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Yeah
IF he can produce like he did in the first 1.5 years of his career, then I’m thrilled.
If he’s doing what he did post ASB last season, then we’ll need to act
This year the Rangers may not have the luxury of significant holes prior to ASB.
It’s possible the Angels could start the season strong. A 5-10 game hole by ASB would be difficult to deal with.
Everybody needs somebody to love... I need Yu, Yu, Yu! I need Yu, Yu, Yu!
I hope I haven't offended the Blues Brothers with this.
A 5 game hole at the ASB shouldn't be a problem to overcome
and Konerko, Butler, Pena, etc., wouldn’t assure that doesn’t happen.
None of those players is guaranteed to outperform Mitch (depending on how long his injury is going to keep him out)
I think Konerko can be expected to outperform Mitch, pretty handily.
Konerko’s liability is base running, but he’d be a great hitting improvement in Mitch’s lineup slot, or a slot or two above it.
Everybody needs somebody to love... I need Yu, Yu, Yu! I need Yu, Yu, Yu!
I hope I haven't offended the Blues Brothers with this.
Konerko has averaged 2.3 WAR
over the last five seasons and will be 36 in March. I think you’re expecting too much. He’s also due a ton of money over the next two years, plus whatever you’d have to trade to get him. I think it’s worth the chance to see if Moreland can be a 2 WAR player rather than make a deal like that.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Just keep Moreland at 1st
and sign all the Cubans with the money you would have spent on Konerko and save the prospects you would have traded for him.
that's my preference
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Let's not forget
That the Rangers were 5 games better than the wildcard Tampa last year.
Even in the last season of the single wildcard team, the Rangers aren’t completely screwed if the Angels are fantastic. The AL East wildcard domination could end.
They aren't terrible
He’s just not valuable enough, imo, to acquire by trade. His numbers are very Mitch Moreland-esque, and he’s an equally bad fielder and baserunner as Mitch.
He's also slow, not particularly good in the field, is a candidate to the lead the world in GIDPs, and sports an ISO that has never matched expectations
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Harrison, Olt, Perez for McCutcheon
Would that make you more comfortable with the addition of Oswalt to the rotation? Some kind of significant trade that addresses another team weakness is the only reason I can see replacing Harrison with Oswalt.
Don’t sign Oswalt to move Harrison to the bullpen.
Not even close to enough.
Harrison, Olt, Perez, Leonys, Ross, Alfaro might get you there.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
profar, harrison, olt, west, ross
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 25, 2012 10:55 AM CST up reply actions
No.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
you dont think that would get mccutcheon?
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 25, 2012 10:57 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think he would do it.
Because of Profar.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
I agree.. the rosterbating with mccutcheon is pointless.
If we need a CFer to spell Leonys until hes ready…
just throw some shit at TB and hope it sticks for BJ upton
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 25, 2012 11:03 AM CST up reply actions
It's not just Profar...
It’s a ML ready 26 year old pitcher who has 3 years of team control… Profar AND Olt.
And both West and Ross have a very good shot at making the big leagues and having some value.
That’s a tremendous amount of likely young ML talent.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Match is now hatching a plan to get you fired
and make sure no woman will ever want you
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 25, 2012 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
It's already too late to stop it
That Matchst1ck is an evil genuis
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 25, 2012 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
My point is that the only way it makes sense to add Oswalt is if Harrison is part of a package to improve another team weakness.
Like 1B or CF.
I would do that trade
but there is no way its enough
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 25, 2012 11:09 AM CST up reply actions
he has the stuff to be a TORP... Matt Harrison does not.
but just put Ogando in the Pen and have Harrison as our 4th/5th starter
and screw all the oswalt noise.. thats foolish
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 25, 2012 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
Oswalt is too expensive as an insurance piece
which is basically what he would be.
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 25, 2012 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
F
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 25, 2012 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
oops.. Feldman is our insurance.
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 25, 2012 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
how GFF of you
Thats exactly why i don’t want oswalt
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 25, 2012 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
"No TORP ceiling? GTFO!"
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Um, Matt Harrison had a TORP performance LAST SEASON.
At least by FIP.
He most certainly does have the stuff to be a TORP.
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
By tRA, too.
I feel like JBI here.
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
Preach it.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Exactly
Which is why I am not on the “trade Matty” bandwagon.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
Furthermore
They have the chance at having two, cost controlled, LHP #2 types with Holland thrown in there.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
They would still have that chance...
If Perez develops.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Significantly lower IMFO
But I can see the logic in converting Matty into a more needed asset. I do not have to like it though.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
I wouldn't seek it.
Especially not for Oswalt… he scares the crap out of me.
And I have a lot of faith in Harrison… but I’d rather trade him than Holland.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
What would it take along with Matty to
get Brown from Philly?
that's a good question
Philly has jerked him around so it’s hard to know what he even is anymore.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
I would trade him if we got a very nice return.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
That nice return would have to include, at a minimum, a major-league regular at a COF spot.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
if Harrison is still on the roster....he's guaranteed a spot
its stupid to think he’ll move to the pen. I haven’t heard any Rangers FO talk about that.
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
Has anyone thought that maybe part of theYoshi signing was in case we got Yu?
Becuase they were teamates. At the time it seemed like kind of a strange signing.
Also, i like the new website heading, AJM.
“The center of the Rangers Yuniversre”
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
It's probably not all that new
I’m just aslways on mobile
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 25, 2012 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
YU has nothing to do with the yoshi signing
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 25, 2012 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
What if we had got him
1) as an insurance piece in the pen
2) to make Texas more appealing for Yu, if we were to get him.
Both are working out.
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 25, 2012 11:08 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think they specifically got Yoshi because of Yu
but I do think that they decided a couple of years ago to begin establishing themselves as a presence in Japan.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
No
no one has thought that.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Well then
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 25, 2012 7:30 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
"With Prince Fielder now off the market"
is going to be the opening line in every LSB article from now on.
This day is slightly marred by the fact that John Rhadigan sucks a flaming bag of shit. - LiamP
"With Prince Fielder now off the market"
theres not really much to talk about
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 25, 2012 11:08 AM CST up reply actions
"With Prince Fielder now off the market...
former Ranger great Elvis Andrus has officially moved into a new retirement home."
This day is slightly marred by the fact that John Rhadigan sucks a flaming bag of shit. - LiamP
"Jorge Alfaro has died at age 102"
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 25, 2012 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
Gravestone
“With Prince Fielder now off the market, I am now off the market.”
This day is slightly marred by the fact that John Rhadigan sucks a flaming bag of shit. - LiamP
"With Prince Fielder now of the market"
Mars can now be inhabited
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 25, 2012 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
"With Prince Fielder now off the market"
we return to our LSB prospect rankings scouting reports
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
BOS, NYY, DET, PHILLY and TB
He hates winning
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 25, 2012 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
That is probably close
No trades to specific teams are included so the player can negotiate a bonus or new deal with the team that wants them- if it is a team on the list. I suspect all toronto had to do was to give Koji a little bonus or new contract.
by Scruffy Nurfherder on Jan 25, 2012 7:36 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
he actually just listed 5 other Canadian cities
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
by jam0152 on Jan 25, 2012 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
heh
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 25, 2012 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
You cannot trade me to Vancouver.
They don’t even have a ML tea—-
I don’t care, I’m not going there.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
JD: Yeah but Koji, there isn't a team in Vancou...
Koji: DID YOU SEE THOSE RIOTS, JON? DID YOU? NO. WAY. NOT HAPPENING.
This day is slightly marred by the fact that John Rhadigan sucks a flaming bag of shit. - LiamP
AT LEAST SEND ME TO CALAGRY IF IT HAS TO BE IN CANADA!
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 25, 2012 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
I don't know why I thought of this
but after reading this, I pictured the restaurant duck scene from “A Christmas Story”
“Fa Ra Ra Ra Ra, Ra Ra Ra Ra”
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
We need a Photoshopped picture of Koji delivering the riot kiss.
This day is slightly marred by the fact that John Rhadigan sucks a flaming bag of shit. - LiamP
Naps, without hesitation.
Everybody needs somebody to love... I need Yu, Yu, Yu! I need Yu, Yu, Yu!
I hope I haven't offended the Blues Brothers with this.
Vomit
Defending Big D Check it out
Twitter
"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
imo
If salaries are going to keep going up like this, the Rangers cannot just keep insisting on getting steals of a contract, or other teams are simply going to start putting more talent on the field than we can.
Hamilton and Naps look to be the two best positional players on the FA market next season. They are going to get paid.
If we lose both, I’m bumming… so I wonder if we just need to bite the bullet to assure our offense doesn’t crumble.
I'd rather pass and pass.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Hamilton
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I don't mean this as a pointless hypothetical like which child would you shoot
I just mean, it’s starting to look like, if we want to keep either, we’re going to have to overpay.
If you’re going to overpay one of them, whom would you rather overpay?
I understand, and it's a shitty position to be in.
But give me the guy with more tools, given that both players have physical issues.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
If I was going to "bite the bullet and overpay"
I would have done so on Prince rather than those two
The deal for Prince was much, much more expensive than the proposed extensions for Naps and Hamilton
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I can see the logic
If you are guaranteeing yourself to overpay a player in his late 30’s… why not go with the player with no injury history, that you can still use in their prime, and that you’ll be overpaying post-tv deal
I get that, but the gulf between 7/130 and 9/210 is really huge.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Naps
Neither will happen, though
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Jan 25, 2012 7:31 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Does Oswalt in the roto
and Harry in the pen make the pitching staff better then having Kirkman in the pen?
x
Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN
The Nationals were never close to winning the Prince Fielder bidding. They only got as far as discussing parameters, never specifics.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
No one wants to be rejected.
Everybody needs somebody to love... I need Yu, Yu, Yu! I need Yu, Yu, Yu!
I hope I haven't offended the Blues Brothers with this.
The Blue Jays barely bid on Darvish.
They bid maybe… MAYBE a $1.50.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I mean, we'll take him if nobody wants him, I guess.
He’s ok. We’re “meh” on Darvish.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
May 2011 in Philly.
I was there, Oswalt vs Harrison, Rangers win 2-0 Harry gets pulled in the 9th and Feliz shut it down. Oswalt looked really good, but Harrison was lights out.
by Rossome on Jan 25, 2012 1:00 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
2 things
1- adding talent is never a bad thing.
2- Saying things like “it’s dumb to sign Oswalt” and “It’s stupid to trade Matt Harrison” are ridiculously stupid things to say when you don’t know how much Oswalt costs or what you get from a Harrison Trade.
Would it be stupid to sign Oswalt for 1 million dollars and then trade Matt Harrison straight up for Joey Votto? I didn’t think so. Obviously neither will happen, but the point remains- you can’t make a judgement on the wisdom of a decision without all the facts.
Thanks aggiecurt.
"Calmer than you are dude"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 25, 2012 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
it seems
we are the minority. After all JD has done, people still can’t understand that perhaps, just perhaps, adding a pitcher at a rate that gives good odds of adding surplus value, then trading a pitcher at their peak value might, just might, make sense.
Nope, signing Oswalt is stupid. Trading Harrison is stupid. Oswalt for 500k is stupid. Harrison for Kershaw and Kemp. Stupid.
by aggiecurt05 on Jan 25, 2012 10:30 PM CST up reply actions
I would just like to tell everyone up front...
this is not one of my bits.
This day is slightly marred by the fact that John Rhadigan sucks a flaming bag of shit. - LiamP
the only way Oswalt makes sense
Is as a bullpen piece that can me a late inning guy or a spot starter
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - JParks
"It’s unusual that Sickels is higher on a low-A prospect than those of us who follow the Rangers’ system closely." -rooster on Jan 1, 2011 12:10 PM PST talking about the son of Judeska and Chesmond
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it" - Thomas Paine
by Eric Prince on Jan 25, 2012 6:31 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions
we dont need anymore late inning guys
what about oswalt makes him a candidate to be a GOOD late inning guy????
If Oswalt was a lefty, that might have remotely made sense
but no, I don’t think we really need any more righties in our bullpen.
by RangersfaninROK on Jan 25, 2012 8:53 PM CST up reply actions
yet again
just a stupid thought. People act like Oswalt is a terrible pitcher. Even with his ‘terrible’ injury riddled season last year, he provided 8 mil in WAR.
Again- it’s impossible to sound much more ridiculous than judging an individual component of a much larger plan. What if the Rangers had a trade of HArrison for McCutcheon but need another pitcher like Oswalt to feel comfortable with the deal?
Yep, JD is sooo stupid.
by aggiecurt05 on Jan 25, 2012 10:28 PM CST up reply actions
it would seem obvious
that acquiring Oswalt would mean something else was in play, I’m sure it will reveal itself in time.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
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