Email
PrintComments
Terrifying.
By all accounts, one cannot pass this injury off as yet another example of Hamilton’s style of play (e.g. the hairline fracture that occurred when diving head first into a bag). This is a worn out part. It is a repetitive injury, but there seems to be substantial research that indicates that it is not an isolated thing. There is quite a lot of conjecture in the medical community that athletic pubalgia can be related to degeneration in the lumbar spine which makes the athlete susceptible to this type of injury.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
Combine that with having those 3 cortisone shots in his knees in 2010...
The only way you can really offer Hammy years is if it is just loaded with conditions for games played and such. Which he won’t sign.
And you know hes going to try to play through everything more than ever this year approaching a contract…
this is my biggest fear..
he’s going to play through injuries which will wind up hurting the club.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
This is why it is insane to even consider going 4 years, much less 5-10.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
Why don't we trade him?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Who would you target in return?
Which prospects or young ML players?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Don't know who is available right now, 'Stick.
In general, I’d like position players (ideally OFs) younger than age 25.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Jan 27, 2012 10:09 AM CST up reply actions
Lets say everyone is available
who would you target for Hamilton?
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
#mybad
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
I'd target position players aged 23-27.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Jan 27, 2012 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
Adam Jones?
Andrew McCutchen?
Peter Bourjos?
Mike Trout? (yeah right).
Why don't you have a nice big cup of shut the fuck up? - Lisa W 3/4/2011
The answer to the question is "because right now he's good value," anyway.
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
I'm aware of that answer.
Given it many times. Regardless, I was curious what sort of specific value (not ambiguous “good players”) he may have considered.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I'll throw out a handful of names that seem at least somewhat reasonable.
Drew Stubbs
Andre Ethier
LoMo (natch)
Corey Hart
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Cincy *may* think of that deal as buying.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Not if he gets hurt.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Jan 27, 2012 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
Because for $12 million for one year, he's a very good deal
If he’d agree to a one year, $12 million contract for 2013, I’d want to keep him.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 27, 2012 10:04 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And you realize that Ian Kinsler...going into his 7th year in The Show...has exactly
one year where he’s played more than 145 games yet you wanna extend him.
Ankle problems, hamstrings, quad, sports hernia…all that yet you want to extend him without reservations.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Jan 27, 2012 10:06 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not sure we are talking the same AAV with Kinsler.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
Not even in the same ballpark.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Not to mention that Hindman himself acknowledges that sports hernias are not a repetitive injury and are super rare.
To suggest a sports hernia will result in more sports hernias is absurd.
by FuturePants on Jan 27, 2012 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
Like Jorge C
says the AAV arent the same and neither is the length of the contract most likely. Additionally, since 2008 Hamilton has played 499 games and been worth 18.2 fWAR. Kinsler has played 523 games and been worth 20.8 fWAR. So not only will Kinsler cost less money but he is also MORE valuable than Hamilton.
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
by Michael Cave on Jan 27, 2012 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
When did I say I wanted to extend Kinsler without reservations?
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 27, 2012 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
Didn't you say you'd offer Kinz a 3/51 extension?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Jan 27, 2012 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
Where did you see that?
The Kinz Extension starts at 5/80 after his current deal.
There’s no way he’s giving 2 club-friendly deals, especially when This Thing just invested $ 110 million in a pitcher who has yet to get an out in The Show.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Jan 27, 2012 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
And it starts in 2014...and that may not be enough.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Jan 27, 2012 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
If thats not enough then I do like Im willing to do with Josh
Say thanks for your services and let them go elsewhere
5/80 would be the biggest contract for any 2B in baseball, and by quite a bit in terms of AAV.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Right.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Ian Kinsler is my very favorite Texas Ranger.
He’s earned a spot with names like Romo, Aikman, Smith, Woodson, Weaver, Ryan, and Rodriguez. I would love for him to retire a Ranger.
There are plenty of reasons I am not terrified of the future without him.
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
Yep.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 1:21 PM CST up reply actions
I feel like that would be a terrible waste of him.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Ok.
Except he has to learn the position at some point in the minors and I hope that doesn’t stunt his continued growth at SS.
But I’m ok with that.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Shortstop has about five runs more defensive impact in a season over a second baseman.
(Which is not as small a number as it sounds, but still. . .)
If he’s, for whatever reason, worse at second than he is short, then maybe. But I reckon he’d probably be better, enough to maybe even mitigate the loss in value. Probably enough to make him worth keeping even at a position downgrade.
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
Let's file it under maybe
I think we have enough evidence at this point to stop assuming that moving positions is a nontrivial thing.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 1:24 PM CST up reply actions
His defense at DH is phenomenal*!
*ly average
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Certainly not non-trivial.
But I’d be willing to bet Profar could handle it well enough he’d be worth keeping.
Not my life savings, though.
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
I could be mistaken...thought you did when we were kicking around
extension ideas with Kinz. I think he’d be stupid to sign something like that.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Here we go...I have a pretty good memory.
“Joey Matches writes this morning about how good Kinsler has been — his bWAR from age 26-29 is the tenth highest in major league history for any second baseman — and looks at the pluses and minuses of locking Kinsler up, along with the cost (he estimates $51 million over three years, which seems reasonable to me).”
http://www.lonestarball.com/2011/12/10/2625833/saturday-a-m-rangers-things
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Okay
Now, the original question was whether I’d extend Kinsler “without reservations.” I’d have reservations about extending him. I’m concerned about how he’d age.
3/$51 seems reasonable. I don’t know that I’d necessarily do that, though.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 27, 2012 2:17 PM CST up reply actions
Me, too.
I wouldn’t hate it, but I don’t know that I’d love it either.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
Gosh 3/51 seems like it would be something the team would have done yesterday if Kinsler would agree to it
Its not a huge committment length wise and the salary is right in line with what he will likely demand in FA.
I think Kinsler is the one who would turn that deal down probably wanting something more long term
That would be really stupid on Kinsler's part to sign that contract.
The baseline for a new deal at that age should be the contract Face signed in 2007 (and probably more than that).
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I dont know about baseline
Baseline for me means absolute lowest you’ll accept
But I do think thats probably the area he is looking at
You think so?
He gets a lot of his value from his defense, which teams don’t necessarily seem to be fully compensating for, and could be an issue if he has to get moved off of the position.
While it wouldn’t be the greatest thing, I don’t feel terrible about the idea of Beltre playing 1B or DH at the end of his contract because he can probably still hit for power at that point. But I don’t know if Kinsler looks like such an amazing player if he moves off 2B…
…but mainly I wouldn’t love it because I’m not confident about how 2B age.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 2:25 PM CST up reply actions
Those numbers were rattling around my head and I couldn't remember
the exact context.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
thats like comparing apples to oranges
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
He has
however played 100 games all 6 years, and had the 500+ PA’s in 4 of them.
he’s got 2 30-30 seasons, doesn’t get caught stealing much (22 times in his career), gets on base, walks a lot, doesn’t strike out much, and plays fantastic gold glove caliber defense at an important up the middle position. and he hits too.
where do I sign up? as long as I know he’s not going to play 162 games and plan accordingly, Hell yeah I sign that long term. Not every player is Cal Ripken.
Why don't you have a nice big cup of shut the fuck up? - Lisa W 3/4/2011
We want him this year and perhaps the next two.
We don’t want to pay his brokedown palace for the rest of the decade.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
It's stunning how simple a concept that is.
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
This has been covered...dumb idea....why trade him this season?
How would you replace that hole in the lineup?
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jan 27, 2012 10:15 AM CST up reply actions
+1
Hamilton’s going to be worth more to us this year than the return that he’ll fetch us in a trade.
by RangersfaninROK on Jan 27, 2012 10:18 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
This
If he’s hurt and/or playing poorly the return in a trade won’t be much. If he’s not hurt and playing like he is capable then the Rangers will need him all year. The worst thing will be him playing well through July and then breaking down after the trade deadline.
"A lot of people may not know this, but I happen to be quite famous." - Sam "MayDay" Malone
Not to mention the draft picks the Rangers get if/when Hamilton signs with another team.
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jan 27, 2012 10:35 AM CST up reply actions
How does this work these days?
I really haven’t caught up wtih this in the new CBA other that I’m pretty sure Type Bs are eliminated…
by FuturePants on Jan 27, 2012 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
If we offer $12M (something like the average of the top 10% or some figure)
We get a compensation pick in return.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I don't recall.
Maybe.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I believe we have to make a "qualifying offer" to Josh to get compensation
I think its somewhere around 1 year 12 million. If we offer that and he signs elsewhere we get compensation
That seems like an even simpler idea than offering arbitration.
At least in this case.
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
Josey
Gonna break it down real simple for you. if you want to continue with your tired schtick I wont respond but if you want to actually discuss things then heres the facts.
First of all no team that is rebuilding will want Josh. Hes older and only has one year of team control left. So no team that is rebuiding will part with players to get Josh.
Secondly of the teams left what kind of return would you expect? Josh isn’t going to bring back a true impact player or a top ten prospect in baseball. You may get a couple B level prospects which are nice but our system needs impact players, impact bats to be specific. A couple B level prospects may be a nice return for say the Houston Astros who have a shitty farm system but we have the top farm in baseball according to BA, we dont need decent-good prospects. We need impact.
And lastly trading Josh opens up a hole which we cant fill for 2012. Given what other teams have done I dont believe we can afford to open up such a hole in our offense without seriously jeopardizing our chances at making the playoffs and possibly going back to the WS. Had we signed Prince then you could make the case our offense is fine and we can afford to let Josh go but now, for 2012, we need him in our lineup to help us win games.
by bigsteve on Jan 27, 2012 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 16 recs
and...silence.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
And...silence because I was away.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Jan 27, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
Green
One additional point…
Being that only playoff contenders would trade for him, you are going to send him directly to a team with which the Rangers are directly competing to win the World Series.
Kinda like CJ but we only get draft picks back?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Jan 27, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
Yep.
Similar dilemma with Colby Lewis.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 1:19 PM CST up reply actions
I don't want to trade Josh...I want to extend him.
Losing him opens up a major hole in our offense…Napoli is apparently out the door as well…how the fuck are we going to score runs on the road in 2013?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Jan 27, 2012 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
lets extend Josh and then have him hurt the club while being injured a majority of the time
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
On the road, no less!
Wait.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
well fuck....$200 million then !
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
I would like to extend him too
If its on very reasonable terms
But his comments have made it clear hes not willing to do reasonable. Hes not willing to acknowledge his enormous injury risk and the risk some team is going to make by committing to the length and size his contract will be.
So knowing we likely wont extend him what do we do? Based on the facts as I presented them to you its pretty clear our best course of action is to let him play out 2012 here in Arlington, get as much out of him as possible, and then let him take FA and get his big contract from someone else who will have to put up with him missing significant portions of most seasons during the deal while paying top dollar
by bigsteve on Jan 27, 2012 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
"Very reasonable terms" left the building earlier this month when JD signed Yu.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Jan 27, 2012 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
Ok
Im fine with that in this case
I dont understand why you are so adament about giving Josh a horrible deal from our perspective.
I’d rather have the hole in the offense for 2013 than be stuck with paying Josh 18+ mil per year for 6+ years.
by bigsteve on Jan 27, 2012 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
You just broke my mind.
That’s crazy, Steve. Crazy, I say.
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
This is correct.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
I don't think it's that clear.
Hamilton comes out of camp healthy and playing well. Some other team starts off looking real good, and they’re willing to part with prospects to get a guy like Hamilton, thinking he could help them to the playoffs. The Rangers send the Hamilton and a very good prospect (Olt, I don’t know) to get a very good young outfielder who’s just about ready.
The Rangers will score runs this year. In 2013 you hope your trade acquisition is ready to help out, but even if he doesn’t and Hamilton is still here, will Hamilton be able to play? It’s borrowed time with that guy.
And if he has another injury plagued season for the Rangers this year, who’s to say he wouldn’t take 1/$12 million because nobody else is offering that?
Now I don’t know what young outfielders may be available because I don’t follow other teams’ farms very closely. There has to be some kind of deal out there, though. All I know is I’m not at all confident that he’ll play well for a full year this year, much less when he’s 32 years old and beyond.
by Black Francis on Jan 27, 2012 3:29 PM CST up reply actions
I cannot see any circumstance where the Rangers trade Josh Hamilton in the middle of a season
If they are in contention.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I'm sure you're right
…but someday — maybe this year, knock on wood — Hamilton’s going to suffer a 60-day DL type of injury. And if that does happen to him this season…
I mean the guy has detached muscles and shit. If he has value, cash it in while you can.
by Black Francis on Jan 27, 2012 4:55 PM CST up reply actions
"athletic pubalgia"
That sounds…unpleasant
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Something that pouring a little tequila on it can't cure.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
Depends how much tequila you have.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 1:12 PM CST up reply actions
Yikes.
Maybe someone with some medical background can break this down to see if ol’ MJH’s research is close to legit.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
If only we had doctors-in-training on this site.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
We even have some doctors in practice.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Yeah, but they're expensive.
Doctors-in-training are cheap!
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
right, right...only if.....
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
we could just ask Siri
Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand alloys and compositions and things with... molecular structures.
by kevinkinsler on Jan 27, 2012 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
"From now on, I will call you sexy."
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
cause I'm surrendering... to fun
Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand alloys and compositions and things with... molecular structures.
by kevinkinsler on Jan 27, 2012 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
My Best (wo)Man is a doctor, and this is her area of expertise.
I could ask her.
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
Best (wo)Man
Does that mean that the best man at your wedding was a woman?
"A lot of people may not know this, but I happen to be quite famous." - Sam "MayDay" Malone
Interesting
I am just curious. Will that person be wearing a Tux or a dress?
"A lot of people may not know this, but I happen to be quite famous." - Sam "MayDay" Malone
excellent question
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
Neither.
Dressy shirt and pants.
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
That should make for a relatively awkward bachelor party.
by LiamP on Jan 27, 2012 12:25 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Probably not having a bachelor party.
Nor would I probably be interested in anything like a strip club.
In any case, if I do have one, she’s arranging it and leaving after it starts, it would seem.
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
Do it?
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
Thanks Phil the Kid.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
We'll see if she actually reads it.
She’s not a sports fan, but she is actually obsessed with sports injuries. She watches football in the hopes someone gets hurt. . .
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
Gee, I wonder what the translated answer will be?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Jan 27, 2012 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
Alright, I'm responding to you.
What?
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
Heh.
It’s been so long that I think I fit more under ‘biochemist in training’
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 1:06 PM CST up reply actions
I haven't done a surgery rotation,
so I can’t speak to things like how recoveries from this normally go.
The one thing I’d add [and did in the BBTiA comments] is that sports hernias are most often associated with (advanced) weight lifting, but that doesn’t contradict anything that mjh wrote.
I know that muscle group from anatomy and can confirm that tears there would affect agility and sudden movement, though I’m not sure off the top of my head how it would affect straight line speed. I’ve never heard of detached adductors [this doesn’t mean it’s made up, but it does give credence to the idea that it’s rare]. The medical cases I’ve seen dealing with detached muscles were mostly upper arm (biceps, triceps) and upper leg muscles.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah,
I meant quadriceps, though I can’t remember if that was trauma or not.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 1:49 PM CST up reply actions
I thought it was triceps.
"Calmer than you are dude"
We tell our guys, control the controllables. Trust the process and don't sweat results. Be the casino.
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 27, 2012 2:23 PM CST up reply actions
Me too
Internet High Five
"Calmer than you are dude"
We tell our guys, control the controllables. Trust the process and don't sweat results. Be the casino.
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 27, 2012 2:27 PM CST up reply actions
Biceps, according to this:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/keyword/dean-palmer/featured/2
Compounding the loss for Texas was a season-ending elbow injury to third baseman Dean Palmer, who ruptured the biceps tendon in his left elbow on a swinging third strike in the second inning. The swing didn’t appear to be out of the ordinary, but Palmer immediately fell to the ground in pain. Surgery will be scheduled next week.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 2:26 PM CST up reply actions
im an ophthalmologist... an eye surgeon...but
i’ll do some backround research and get back to you guys….
off hand… i dont see a correlation between his spine issue from the wreck and his pubalgia..
I wonder what the chances are of Hamilton finding his big contract out there next season
only to not be able to pass the physical.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
That's a good question...
I wonder how rigorous those physicals are and if they target certain areas of the body where concern lies.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
I'd have to think that it would be a pretty extensive physical for Hamilton
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
That would be a first though, wouldn't it?
It probably wouldn’t be as much of a given that the physical will turn out fine when they think they have a deal done.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
It depends.
I think people assume that more can be discovered from these physicals than is actually warranted.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 1:12 PM CST up reply actions
I've wondered before how much actually comes out of a physical.
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
I think it would reveal some things...
People have been caught with an irregular heart beat or things like that. You can see if things didn’t mend properly or are actively broken/damaged.
But I don’t think you’d necessarily see an increased likelihood of a muscle detaching unless it was actively damaged or was clearly abnormal.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
often times esp in a case where a person has a medical hx/ injury hx
imgaing and other tests are done at the same time as the physical exam… the people doing the exams are seasoned… they do fellowships after residency in this specific area… its more specific than your typical physical you get from year to year with your doc.
Yeah,
but I think people assume that a basic or even in depth physical is going to discover everything that’s wrong with an athlete, including things that have never been a concern before. Sure, you hear about the rare case where they discover cancer or diabetes or some such, but it’s not like they are doing exploratory surgery to get a clear picture at the strength of ligaments and muscle attachments.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 1:30 PM CST up reply actions
Sure, you can catch things,
and excellent, experienced doctors are more likely to catch things, but…think about it this way:
If you have a car that sometimes makes a weird noise, you can take it to the mechanic. But if it’s not making that weird noise at the time you take it in, it makes it hard for even a great mechanic to figure it out. Sure, there are some issues that will pop up when they plug in that electronic whachamacallit, or perhaps checking certain aspects will provide a clue, but there’s a greater than zero chance the guy is going to change your oil, top off your fluids, and say ‘keep an eye on it’.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 1:26 PM CST up reply actions
You've obviously never listened to Click & Clack
by robert_d_wilfong on Jan 27, 2012 5:57 PM CST up reply actions
Heh.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 5:59 PM CST up reply actions
I just wonder how these reattached adductors will hold up over the 2012 season.
Hamilton may be playing the rest of his career on 1 year contracts if this injury remains a problem.
"If he ain't struck you out, then you ain't nobody." - Ricky Henderson after Nolan Ryan's 5,000 strike out game
Don't know, but it sounds like something that could be reinjured easily..
muscle popping off bone seems like it would be a tough fix.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
He would probably sit out games before taking the risk of doing any sort of real damage.
He could miss 100 games this year and someone would still overpay to get him.
by behindthebag on Jan 27, 2012 11:09 AM CST up reply actions
I'd imagine swinging the bat with any sort of power relies a lot on your groin. Not to mention running the bases.
This is bad.
"...out of the shadows of unprecedented success, the sun shines down upon this team waiting to thrill anew." - ghostofErikThompson
dat torque
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
Which goes back to AJMs primary column on Hammy and an extension
Josh does not have a good eye at the plate but he compensates by being very strong and very quick and generates a lot of power from his lower body. If that’s gone he not only might just become a decent hitter but his inherent flaws in his approach may make him a below average hitter.
Football can go to hell. The Rangers aren't ready for football season and neither am I.
by WyoRanger on Jan 27, 2012 2:13 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Career OBP .366
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Interesting note about Vlad v. Josh
Josh had an OPS+ of 170 in his MVP season. His next highest OPS+ is 134.
Vlad’s lowest OPS+ from 1998-2007 was 138.
Vlad and Josh are very similar as players, except Vlad was better and wasn’t as injury prone.
And yet, some people seem to think Josh will age better than Vlad.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 27, 2012 2:31 PM CST up reply actions
Well not yet, anyway.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Hmmmmmm...B-Ref has a section on their site for individual players and who those players are most similar to....
No Vladdy G.
They do have some cat named Bob Johnson who played until he was 39 and that’s THE player Josh is most similar to from the past.
The second most similar hitter is Rico Carty who also played until he was 39.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Also on the list:
Brad Hawpe, Brian Giles, Trot Nixon, Jeremy Burnitz.
"Calmer than you are dude"
We tell our guys, control the controllables. Trust the process and don't sweat results. Be the casino.
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 27, 2012 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
Giles played till he was 38 (had a .398 OBP at age 37).
The player with the most similar score to Hamilton last year was Joey Votto.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Baseball reference...
Doesn’t have track plate discipline and swinging at pitches out of the strike zone.
Josh led the Rangers in swinging at pitches out of the strike zone last year and I think was top 10 in the ML.
Vlad Guerrero is also an aggressive swinger who rarely walks.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Maybe that's what the eye-test tells you but apparently B-Ref uses numbers.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
These are numbers.
Josh led the Rangers in swinging at pitches out of the strike zone last year and I think was top 10 in the ML.
Vlad Guerrero is also an aggressive swinger who rarely walks.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
by Aqua on Jan 27, 2012 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
No... that's what FanGraphs tells you.
They track O and Z swinging percentages for pitches in and out of the strike zone.
Same with the PitchFX data. No eye test at all.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
But B-Ref actually tracks the results, no?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Not all the results.
How often you swing at a pitch in or out of the strike zone is also a result or element of information.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I'd put more stock in the actual result of the ball that was hit
instead of the approach at the plate.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
That's interesting
Considering how much you talk about discipline.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Yeah...the Great God of OBP doesn't lie.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
And it won't about Hamilton when his preternatural ability to hit baseballs begins to fail him.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Josh had a .346 OBP last season
Elvis had a better OBP than Josh last year.
He was 25th out of 73 qualifying A.L. hitters in OBP.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 27, 2012 3:07 PM CST up reply actions
And Josh had a .411 OBP in 2010
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Joe Charboneau
had a .358 OBP in 1980.
by robert_d_wilfong on Jan 27, 2012 6:02 PM CST up reply actions
He could also drink beer thru his nose.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Here
O-Swing % is how often they swing at a pitch out of the strike zone.
Z-Swing % is how often they swing at a pitch in the strike zone.
SwStr% at the very end is how often they swing and miss.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
It's like batting average is included in getting on base.
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
by philkid3 on Jan 27, 2012 2:37 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Don't be absurd.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 2:38 PM CST up reply actions
Careeer 6.8% walk rate
When you remove un-intentional walks.
That’s that transcendent ability to hit the ball… he is very very good at that. As AJM mentions… so was Vlad.
If that drops off… his OBP will plummet because of how aggressive he is.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
"...plummet..."
Plummet to what?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Bet I know where this is going.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Well...
As an example he hits about .300 now. If he becomes a .270 hitter… the .346 OBP he put up last year drops do .316-ish. And if they quit intentionally walking him… more like .310.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Well
Since 2009, Vlad has a .334 OBP.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 27, 2012 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
well
bye josh, don’t let the door hit you on your way out if you intend on making the werth contract your floor in negotiations
hopefully some of the rangers toolbox outfielders in the low minors will work out and that david murphy can be adequate as a stop gap until that happens. and i hope JD can get jorge soler signed out of cuba
Welp.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
LOLz
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Jan 27, 2012 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
It seems like people keep saying if we don't sign Hamilton, the alternative is to hope someone in the minors develops.
But there are more options. Like the part where having a rich farm system while being a good team is great because you can trade pieces of that rich farm system for a good player.
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
yep
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
There are close to 1200 players just on 40 man rosters alone!
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
sorry, reply fail
is there anyone out there that could conceivably fill a MVP candidate role, that could be acquired in trade without the other team demanding every good rangers prospect/just laughing at the thought
Probably.
But then Josh has had one season of MVP level play, so if you’re targeting that caliber, you’re not just trying to replace Josh, you’re trying to improve beyond him.
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
If you're looking players who are very good players
with the capability to throw in an MVP year every once in a while, I’d argue that there are 3-4 other guys on the team who are already at that level.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
there's going to be a big deal in the next year.
BIG.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
this is good to hear.
GOOD.
"If he ain't struck you out, then you ain't nobody." - Ricky Henderson after Nolan Ryan's 5,000 strike out game
You also aren't restricted to only going to left field for replacement or improvement.
If you lose Josh’s 4+ wins or whatever in left and only replace one or two of them, but land a first baseman or catcher or center fielder who makes up the rest of the ground, you’re good. And you’ve saved money (theoretically).
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
People keep forgetting that we're putting together a deal for Mike Stanton right this minute. It's frustrating.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
It drives me bonkers.
People act like we developed Hamilton ourselves or signed him as a free agent…
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
WHO IS GOING TO HIT ON THE ROAD, GB?
YOU?
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
YOU, LIEUTENANT WEINBERG?!
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
by JDT217 on Jan 27, 2012 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd have to bunt my way on.
I just don’t thi- hold on.
- picks up phone *
Yes, hello?
Hi, this is Ron Washington, how would you feel about hitting in the #2 spot?
Ugh, Ron, can we talk abo….wait a minute, WTF am I saying?? PUT ME IN COACH!
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
You say "Yes, hello?" when you pick up the phone?
Why not just “hello?”
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
I do when I'm doing other important things, like chatting on LSB,
so that the caller gets some idea that I’m busy.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
shows class.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
It won't matter if we play detroit.
1. Bunt to any of their super fatasses.
2. Get on base.
3. Win baseball games.
There needs to be a step for laughing at all the floundering blubber.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 2:27 PM CST up reply actions
Do they have any extreme ground ball pitchers there?
I don’t recall who does what besides Verlander being K/FB guy.
Porcello and Fister
both at GB% over 50% last year. Fister was at 47.5% for the year, though, when you factor in his time in Seattle and is a career 46% guy.
Scherzer is a flyball guy.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 2:32 PM CST up reply actions
More like delicious.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
I like how Parks put it in his chat:
ssimon (Pelham, NY): How would a scout react to seeing a guy with Miguel Cabrera’s tools playing third base?
Jason Parks: He’d say, “What a great hitter.”
But other than that Mrs. Lincoln,
how was the play?
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
That's not really the worst part.
People act like franchises don’t lose players to FA all the time.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
You could limit that to just this franchise.
Loses Millwood and Byrd…goes to WS.
Loses Cliff Lee…goes to WS again.
Loses CJ Wilson…thought of as one of the favorites for a playoff spot.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
Who are you trading and what are you getting back to replace Josh?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Not trying to start a fire fight here,
but how can you seriously ask this question when you have been asked the same exact question and won’t answer?
"Calmer than you are dude"
We tell our guys, control the controllables. Trust the process and don't sweat results. Be the casino.
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 27, 2012 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
I don't want to trade him because I know what he does cannot be replaced without great
cost to This Thing.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I get that.
Still, you are asking a question that you refuse to answer.
"Calmer than you are dude"
We tell our guys, control the controllables. Trust the process and don't sweat results. Be the casino.
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 27, 2012 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
I don't refuse to answer...there's not an answer that makes sense.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
How did you feel about the Galloway column that basically concluded
that we shouldn’t extend Josh past 3/60 or something?
by VM on Jan 27, 2012 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
You seem surprised by this turn of events.
"A lot of people may not know this, but I happen to be quite famous." - Sam "MayDay" Malone
We're targeting quality baseball players capable of helping this team win games.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
by Aqua on Jan 27, 2012 1:11 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Names?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
You didn't give any.
I’d target position players aged 23-27.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
They have the most value for less cost.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
And the most variance/least amount of confidence in how good they will be.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 1:21 PM CST up reply actions
to get those guys
you have to make up for that savings in money by giving the selling team your existing low cost/high value players (prospects/team control guys)
I know.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
while it’s possible to go out and buy the 4.whatever war that josh provides on an annual basis in free agency, it’ll be a lot harder to plug it into the current rangers team in a way where you aren’t benching a similarly valuable player.
the only places where this could happen is if they launch mitch into the sun (trade him to a second division team to recover what value he may have after this year) and then go out and get a DH type to play first from a team that has too many of them (LAAofA/DET come to mind), or if they can get a good COF after hamilton walks, presuming leonys martin works out as a long term solution in center.
Wait.
Are you expecting Hamilton to keep producing at that level for the next half decade?
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
by philkid3 on Jan 27, 2012 1:51 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I tried to boil down the contract issue to that this morning.
I think the reason I’d like him for 3 years but not 5 is that for the next 3 years, he seems like a nice 4-5 WAR candidate with upside, but after that, he seems more like a 3-4 WAR guy.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
I feel like even that's optimistic if he's a real breakdown candidate.
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
by philkid3 on Jan 27, 2012 2:09 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
That's the biggest concern...
That he flat drops off of a cliff production wise.
Josh has a transcendent ability to hit a baseball (when it’s in the strike zone) very, very, very hard and far.
But he also has below average approach at the plate… if he can’t hit like he used to but his approach doesn’t change… he could be very bad very quickly.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I loved his approach during that MVP year though.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 2:12 PM CST up reply actions
His approach was a little better that year...
But he still swung at a tremendous amount of pitches out of the strike zone and was very aggressive in general.
The biggest drop off for Josh last year (and I was gonna write an article but it’s not that much different than what Adam wrote) was that his production after getting in the hole 0-1 became terrible.
Josh swung at the first pitch more than any other player in baseball last year… when he put the ball in play it was great… but he routinely fouled the ball off or swung and missed. And once he got down 0-1, his OPS was .635 (263 PA) compared to in 2010 when his OPS was .905 (239 PA).
His production after getting up 1-0 or putting the ball in play on the first pitch were roughly the same both years.
It was the tremendous dip in production from behind in the count that made him go from MVP to “Good”.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
You always talk about regression.
Are you sure that .635 number won’t regress as well? If that stabilizes somewhere in the median area of .765, that would make a big difference.
"Calmer than you are dude"
We tell our guys, control the controllables. Trust the process and don't sweat results. Be the casino.
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 27, 2012 2:22 PM CST up reply actions
You should expect everything to regress to the mean.
His career OPS after 0-1 is .701.
2010 was the fluke… 2011 was much closer to his career numbers.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Thank you.
"Calmer than you are dude"
We tell our guys, control the controllables. Trust the process and don't sweat results. Be the casino.
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 27, 2012 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
Probably depends on why that number dropped so much
If he was sitting on certain pitches early in counts due to his injury that may explain why once behind he got fooled more often or chased.
if its due to a bad approach thats something that could possibly be fixed
What's average for 0-1?
If you look at the percentage drop from league average at 0-0 to 0-1 and then apply it to Hamilton last year, what is his expected 0-1 production?
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 2:23 PM CST up reply actions
I don't have my data at work.
And it’s hard for me to do research here.
One of the things I was comparing was Miggy Cabrera (also insanely aggressive on the first pitch) to Hamilton.
Both of them are great hitters… but Hamilton had literally like 2 walks all season if he got down 0-1. He was also swung at many more pitches out of the strike zone (and both hitters had terrible OPS when they put a ball out of the strike zone in play).
I will put my stuff up next week on this for a good discussion. I’ve been meaning to do it for a while.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Sure,
I didn’t expect you to do it now. It’s just that context is needed when you cite those numbers.
Anecdotally, it seemed as if Josh was hyperaggressive at times last year and wouldn’t settle for walks or ‘bloop’ singles like he did in his MVP year.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 2:29 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah,
this does not account for the possibility that he completely breaks down and I’m often less pessimistic in long-term projections than things like ZIPS for that reason.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 2:11 PM CST up reply actions
BTW,
this is great work. Good job, mjh.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
Hmm?
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
It's the connection to Hamilton's car accident and lower back injury
that makes this so interesting. Very, very interesting.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah...
The “he did drugs therefore his body must be more fragile” is a very tenuous argument.
But a previous back injury… that’s a real thing.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I think you know my thoughts on the drug aspect.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
I don't.
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
by philkid3 on Jan 27, 2012 2:01 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I think people who adamantly insist one way or another are wrong.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
Heh, yes.
Interestingly, though, cocaine was one of the preferred local anesthetics of choice in the 50’s-70’s. Then the coke heads kept breaking in, so they had to move to other options.
It’s really good at blocking blood flow, if I remember my physiology properly.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 2:28 PM CST up reply actions
Before FDR's famous "Day that will live in infamy" speech...
…he was suffering badly from the flu, so they got him coked up.
Really?
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
That's around the same timeframe cocaine was still in Coca Cola, right?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I think that was after?
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
Wiki suggests they stopped cocaine in Coke in 1903 or so.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah just saw that myself.
For some reason I thought that went on to like the 50’s.
It’s because of the movie Mommy Dearest. I remember seeing that and my dad telling me when I was a kid that they used to put cocaine in Coca Cola and that’s where the name came from… and that was the time frame for Joan Crawford.
Accidental childhood association.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
makes the blood vessels clamp down
so there is less bleeding… but all that mucous etc doesnt get “cleaned out”
PARTY AT ISURGEON'S!
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
Given that he's actually practicing
he should be able to afford a grand ol shindig
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Soooooo faaaaaaaar
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 2:48 PM CST up reply actions
Until Obamacare runs him out of business
/rush
"A lot of people may not know this, but I happen to be quite famous." - Sam "MayDay" Malone
So you don't give Kinsler an extension either because of his sports hernia?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Do you think a fomer sports hernia is more likely to cause future problems than a former back injury?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Josey has a more informed medical opinion than you or GB.
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
by philkid3 on Jan 27, 2012 1:52 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I have no idea...I'd assume one person's sports hernia is quite different than another person's sports hernia.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
You seem to really want to compare extending Kins to Josh though based on their hernia histories
If each are different then how can you make that comparison?
I absolutely consider potential time missed when trying to extend Kinsler.
Just like Hamilton.
I just have more belief a Kinsler extention will be more reasonable. If it’s not, I’ll miss him.
Similarly, if Hamilton demands are more reasonable than I expect, I’d love to have him back.
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
by philkid3 on Jan 27, 2012 1:58 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Read the abstract below.
Sports hernias can be overcome. Abductor muscle issues, not so much. Not to mention how back injuries are almost a life sentence.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
Hahah.
I picture my anatomy prof yelling at me right now.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 1:54 PM CST up reply actions
No. It would not surprise me
if after the surgery, Hamilton recovers to (close to) full strength. The issue that Hindman is focusing on is whether or not the lower back issue are the root cause of a number of his past issues and whether or not it is likely to continue to do so.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 1:53 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah,
I admit, it’d be nice to have a link for this:
There is quite a lot of conjecture in the medical community that athletic pubalgia can be related to degeneration in the lumbar spine which makes the athlete susceptible to this type of injury.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
On my way.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
Abstract
Sportsman’s hernia is an increasingly recognized cause of chronic groin pain in athletes. Although the definition is controversial, it is a condition of chronic inguinal/pubic exertional pain caused by rectus abdominal wall weakness or injury without a palpable hernia, usually affecting high-performance male athletes. Diagnosis is made after careful history and physical examination. Some radiographic studies such as ultrasound or MRI may be helpful in evaluating these patients and ruling out other pathology, although no radiographic study can rule out sportsman’s hernias. Because sports hernias are not true hernias but an injury in the rectus insertion, unilateral or bilateral rectus reattachment is the most appropriate surgical treatment. This reattachment may be done in combination with adductor release in the setting of adductor pain or weakness on physical examination. Other surgical repairs (eg, Lichtenstein, Shouldice, Kugel, laparoscopic) do not stabilize the pelvis and tend not to be as successful. In the motivated patient, after surgical repair and physical rehabilitation, 95% are free of pain and able to return to competitive sports.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 1:18 PM CST up reply actions
There's a lot of general surgeons
who think that sports hernias are a pseudo-diagnosis right? Like there’s no repairable or significant anatomic abnormality and therefore the whole thing is more likely an inflammatory vs. an actual surgical intervention.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
I haven't done a general surgery rotation yet, so I'm not sure.
I’ve never heard it called such in a GP office.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 2:43 PM CST up reply actions
Either way
this whole article is pretty much what we expect of MJH – a lot extrapolation and not a lot of actual value.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Depends if he can support that claim:
Resident_Expert
Mike,
Great article. Thanks for looking beyond the “style of play” and “fragile body from drug abuse” reasons for Josh’s (apparent) fragility, although I still wouldn’t rule out “bad luck” just yet.
I’d be interested to see any references in connection with your statement that there is “conjecture in the medical community that athletic pubalgia can be related to degeneration in the lumbar spine which makes the athlete susceptible to this type of injury.” Aside from Psoas major, which originates at the lumbar vertebrae and inserts into the upper femur, I don’t see much of a musculoskeletal relationship between lumbar region of the spine and the muscles of the “adductor group,” each of which originate at the pubis (just next to the penis) and insert into various places along the femur. There may be, and I’m not saying there isn’t, I’m just curious to know more about it. Thanks again!
Michael Hindman
Me too. Working on it.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 2:49 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah,
I’m a bit disappointed. I would have assumed there was something to back it up, given the nature of the claim.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 2:56 PM CST up reply actions
But it sounds much less apocolyptic
if you don’t put the spine reference in there.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Be carefull
He may threaten to quit.
"A lot of people may not know this, but I happen to be quite famous." - Sam "MayDay" Malone
yep
quite a devolution for the ol’ chap
Newman on Roman Mendez
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I'm starting to really like his addition.
You see my fanshot yesterday where he scouted Delino Deshields Jr?
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 1:21 PM CST up reply actions
I didn't.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I mean, I could tl;dr it for you: LOLAstros
But it’s an interesting take.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
I really want us to make a run at Dom Brown.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Am I crazy here,
wasn’t he thought of similarly to Desmond Jennings?
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 1:31 PM CST up reply actions
more sports hernia info... from baylor
Our experience has confirmed that of others in showing that many athletes who develop acute and chronic injuries to the lower abdominal muscles, pubic symphysis, and adductor musculature—so-called sports hernias—have greatly benefited from care. Over the past 12 years, we have repaired >100 sports hernias at Baylor University Medical Center at Dallas. Our patients have included high-profile professional athletes, competitive college athletes, competitive adult athletes, club players, and weekend warriors. Of those treated, 98% have returned to their competitive level of activity, usually within 3 months. This report reviews this entity, its etiology and pathology, and its diagnosis, repair, and rehabilitation.
Preskitt
2011 April; 24(2): 89–91.
Yeah, this is similar to what I'm seeing.
Also, WOOOO BUMC!
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 2:00 PM CST up reply actions
So, question.
Do you think Kinsler is injury prone due to the way he’s made up? Do you think he’s injury prone due to the way he plays? Do you think he’s just had a run of bad luck?
SB Nation Dallas-Ft. Worth - Christopher Fittz is better than porn!
by philkid3 on Jan 27, 2012 2:07 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I think it's a combination of him and his position.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
more...same reference
With athletic pubalgia syndrome, there is disequilibrium between the upward and oblique pull of the abdominal muscles on the pubis against the downward and lateral pull of the adductors on the inferior pubis. This imbalance of forces can lead to injuries of the lower central abdominal muscles and the upper aponeurotic common insertion of the adductor muscles. Although it is occasionally the result of an acute injury, it is more likely the result of repetitive eccentric overload to the abdominal wall stabilizers of the pelvis. It has been postulated that inadequate blood supply or simply failure to heal these repetitive attritional type injuries results in the condition.
anatomically speaking and reviewing the major clinical reviews on the subject
i dont see why the prior back injury could be attributed to this injury…
Let me preface that I'm not even remotely a doctor...
And I’m just making wild ass guesses…
Could there be a physical adjustment to compensate for back discomfort that would put additional stress on the leg muscles doing baseball activities?
Could there be an either over or under production of protein/enzyme (making things up) from the spinal area that would make connective tissue more fragile?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
abdominal muscles often compensate with certain back injuries
i dont see leg adductors being involved.
the hormones created with injury…arent synthesized by the spine etc….
if hamilton was on chronic steroid therapy for naggining inflammation in his back it could cause weakness issues with various tissues…but he hasnt been….
im not an orthopedic surgeon… and hence no expert…but i dont see a correlation … also dont see one when i review literature…. i’ll keep looking and update if i come across anything..
Regarding that second point,
that seems unlikely to me. Best connection you could come up with is some sort of generalized stress signal that results in inflammation in the wrong place, but that seems unlikely. Perhaps if he were on generalized steroid therapy for a long time to control pain and inflammation in his back…but why here? Seems odd.
I don’t know any way to prove or disprove your first question.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
So. Layman's terms.
Is Josh going to disintegrate into one big Flabductor or not?
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
That's in line with what I was thinking:
it is more likely the result of repetitive eccentric overload to the abdominal wall stabilizers of the pelvis
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2012 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
What was the control group in this stUdy?
is this thing just a cohort or did this compare operative vs. non-operative treatment?
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Get a grip: Reds’ Todd Frazier loses bat, still connects for home run (Video)
- Eric Hosmer redefines the Baltimore chop with infield double (Video)
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
