Saturday a.m. Rangers stuff
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 7, 2012 10:13 AM CST
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PrintWe are adrift on a sea of rumors, some of which suggest the Rangers still have a level of interest in Prince Fielder and Ryan Madson. I still don't see the Rangers signing either one, but if a market doesn't develop for Fielder, at some point, does he consider, say, a one year, $25 million deal from some team, which would allow him to re-enter the free agent market next year, when the Dodgers and Mets could have new ownership and a need for a first baseman? And if so, wouldn't the Rangers -- with a home park seemingly made for him -- be an ideal landing spot for a season?
As for Madson, I don't think he's worth the money, and the Rangers already have a bunch of relievers, but that didn't keep the Rangers from chasing after Andrew Bailey.
In other, less interesting rumors, T.R. Sullivan writes that the Rangers have interest in Brad Hawpe as potential insurance for Mitch Moreland, should he not recover from surgery in time for Opening Day, or should his struggles from 2011 continue.
Evan Grant thinks that the Rangers are doing the right thing by hiring an "accountability partner" for Josh Hamilton, even though it is his father-in-law, although he wonders if this doesn't open up the possibility of others asking the Rangers to put family members on the payroll.
Frank Howard will be honored at the Rangers' Awards Banquet on Thursday with the Mark Holtz Alumni Award.
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So, what is the max contract you'd pay for Madson?
1/9? 2/16?
by Jobu. on Jan 7, 2012 10:18 AM CST via iPhone app reply actions
Same deal the Rangers gave Nathan
2/14 I believe or 1/8
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
by Michael Cave on Jan 7, 2012 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
Well, now that we've signed Nathan, not much.
I hate FA deals for closers, of course, but Madson was/is the best closer available in this FA market; and now it looks like he can be had on a 3-year deal.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
will suck if he gets less than Nathan
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Ryin A on Jan 7, 2012 10:30 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
Big time.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
maybe......i dont see it tho
no one else on the Rangers has the addiction history that Hamilton has either. Its easily justifiable to all the other players on the team.
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
Meh
Surely in MLB history there have been countless team hires driven by nepotism. This is one is both justified by qualifications and out in the open, I don’t see the problem.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Nepotism gets a bad rap
Sure, hiring a relative who is incompetent over someone who is better qualified is bad business / unethical / whatever. But hiring someone who is related is often smart because there is often greater trust (important for this particular job), longer track record in that you know what you’re getting, etc.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Hire talented people who you can work with.
If they happen to be related to you, fine.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
of course
so what is the problem here?
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Because there's probably a question
of if this was hiring (one of) the best people for the job or hiring just because it’s family.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
Given that the job description
is basically someone that Josh can trust absolutely, I find it hard to believe that there is a large pool of qualified people out there that were overlooked.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Aqua brought this up:
If your accountability partner is supposed to be somebody you can say absolutely anything to, is your father in law the best person for that?
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
Depends on the father in law.
Hamilton’s relationship with his seems atypical.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Their relationship is apparently different than what we expect it to be.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Interesting.
I still wonder if it wouldn’t be better to bring in somebody who isn’t related to them.
Alternatively, I wonder why the Rangers are paying for this. Josh makes pretty serious bank now…
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
It's probably a negligible amount from the Rangers perspective
And it gives you untold goodwill with your star player.
This is actually one of the reasons I don’t think Hamilton is going anywhere; the Rangers have built an environment for him where he can be successful and are willing to do things other organizations might not.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Yeah, I think that's my concern.
I’m sort of worried that they’re going to bend over backward for him. I’m less worried because JD is a fucking ninja, but Nolan may get involved…
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
I don't think it's that at all.
And I am taking an anti-Big Stevian approach to the whole “fair deal” thing.
I think Hamilton wants to stay here and will if they give him anything approaching a fair offer. He wants to get paid, obviously, but he, possibly more than any player ever, wants long-term stability where he is.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
What's a fair deal?
4/$80M?
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
5/105 is the baseline and I might go up from there a little.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I have no idea.
What I really mean to say is that I don’t think Hamilton is going to bow up to the table and expect a Werthesque payday.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
I think he'll want close to it.
He mentioned last year that it’s more than about him… it’s about the players that come after him.
This year he hammered on “fair”.
I don’t think he’s giving a discount.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Fair has so many meanings that it's ridiculous to rely on that one word.
And “fair” is entirely relative.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Okay...
He immediately followed it up by saying he didn’t want to be low-balled.
Doesn’t sound like discount talk.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I never said he would take a discount.
Because “discount” implies a significantly less amount of money than he would otherwise want.
If you turn it around, I think it will take more money for someone else to sign him than it will take for us.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
I can see that.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
He was supposedly low-balled by the Ray
when he was drafted. The #2 pick signed for $ 2-3 million more than Hamilton signed for.
That’s what Josh is talking about when he says "fair.’
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Nope
Hamilton got a $3.96 million bonus.
Josh Beckett, who went #2, got a $3.625 million bonus.
Looks like he got the biggest deal.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 7, 2012 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not reporting it as fact.
I’m going off what Josh said in a radio interview when all this talk about “fair” was being kicked around. He referenced the draft and how Tampa talked him into signing early (way before August 15).
Did somebody below Beckett sign for more than Josh?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Nope
Although Beckett did get a major league deal, that ended up being worth $7 million thru 2003.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 7, 2012 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe that's what Josh was referencing.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I think the MF Yankees are going to moneywhip Josh.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I think clearly Hamilton is a special case
And special cases often have to be handled uniquely. I have no idea whether Josh’s father-in-law is the ideal person for this job; but then again, I don’t know Josh, and I don’t know his father-in-law. But it is really hard for me to say “hey, what are you doing there – hiring a relative!?!?!?!?!! – that’s a terrible decision!”
Now, if you’re the Padres and you go out and make roster decisions to get Adrian Gonzalez’s brother for little reason beyond “they’re brothers and our fans will think it is cute”; that can be criticized. But if you’re creating a unique job for a unique player, then by all means the best person for that may be someone with whom he has a personal relationship. It’d be crazy to disqualify him from the start for that reason.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
I'm not saying it's inherently bad.
But I’m a bit uncomfortable with it.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
What is the worst case scenario of doing it?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
"Josh Hamilton's father in law goes insane and kills all the good players."
/Sullivan
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
He's ineffective and the other players feel like
Hamilton is getting special treatment beyond what is reasonable?
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
Seems like a stretch, I know,
but that’s probably the worst case, right?
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
I think clearly Hamilton has been getting special treatment for a long time
and if people on the team have a problem with it, they certainly haven’t made a big deal about it. I mean, he’s had Narron doing the same job for a while now. They drink gingerale when they win series…
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Good point
Although “special” may not be accurate. I’m sure the Rangers make sure someone can speak spanish and japanese. Does that mean the latin and japanese players are getting special treatment?
Football can go to hell. The Rangers aren't ready for football season and neither am I.
by WyoRanger on Jan 7, 2012 2:19 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
it's a bit weird
but everything about Hamilton is a bit weird. Hopefully he’s someone else expensive problem next year.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
I don't hope he's gone
I just hope he is ours cheaply. Like Aqua says…
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Rangers fans don't fully grasp what they have with Josh Hamilton.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Seems that way.
Speaking of Hammy, read Leavy’s Mantle book over the holidays. Fantastic.
Que sera, sera.
I still don't have that one.
I read Jerry West’s autobiography.
My all-time favorite was a weird cat.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Yeah, so was the Mick.
Though his childhood is a psychiatrist’s dream. Or whatever kind of doctor studies that stuff.
Que sera, sera.
West hated his parents, particularly the dad.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Yes.
Grew up dirt poor and the old man was physically abusive. West had to eat veggie soup 6 days in a row and when he refused to eat it on Day 7, the old man gave him a severe beating.
West (13 years old at the time) told him if he ever touched him or sisters again that he’d shoot him.
Right around this time his oldest brother (that he revered) was killed in Korea. His mom checked out at that time…massive depression.
Neither parent would come to watch him play even though they won the state title.
He lost the national championship game by one point which set the stage for several heartbreaking losses to the Celtics (lost to them in The Finals 6 times in the 60s).
He talks about the ’ship they won when they beat the Knicks.
Talked about Wilt…who was one of those guys who never used to deodorant.
Talked about being a shitty coach for the Lakers.
Talked about being a GM for the Lakers and what an asshole Phil Jackson was. He also wasn’t a fan of Mike Fratello at Memphis either.
Pretty good (but not great) read if you’re interested in NBA history.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
elgin baylor
used to call wilt big musty
whats weird about it and how the hell would you know
by frankhowardfan on Jan 7, 2012 8:23 PM CST up reply actions
Ah shit, man. Don't take it too literally.
Weird means unconventional. WV is different.
I’m sure there’s a lot to like, I actually applied to WVU.
Que sera, sera.
WELL
if by weird you do mean unconventional then what you say is true, it is an unconventional state
by frankhowardfan on Jan 8, 2012 6:48 PM CST up reply actions
Read "The Teammates" recently
About Pesky and Dom Dimaggio driving cross country to see Ted Williams before he died. Halberstrom book who is a pretty good writer.
Football can go to hell. The Rangers aren't ready for football season and neither am I.
by WyoRanger on Jan 7, 2012 2:25 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Very good.
Too bad Doerr couldn’t make the trip. All of Halberstam’s work is great. ‘October 1964’ is probably my favorite sports book.
Que sera, sera.
That's a good one.
“Breaks of the Game” about the ’79-80 Trailblazers is really good as well.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Halberstam wrote "Breaks of the Game"
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Sure, I guess
but I expect him to get more money than I’m comfortable with from someone.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
The previous accountability partner...
was also family of a Ranger employee, no?
"Blalock in the cleanup spot makes gives me agita." - Dustin
It was Narron.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
The media is an entirely different ball of wax.
The only reason this sort of thing gets a pass (from me, at least) is because sports journalism is about as important as fashion journalism.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I dunno...
…I question it.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
I remembered once
Frank Howard got mad at some fans, and chased them out of DC Stadium. It’s a scary thought that guy chasing one. I think they were heckling him. When he got mad watch out, he didn’t get mad often though.
PF market
seattle
washington
texas
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 7, 2012 10:40 AM CST reply actions
didnt you say he was going to sign already?
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Justin Verlander? I piss on Justin Verlander --AJM
Toronto?
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
This.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Prince to Dodgers a real possibility
If sale goes through in time in time. Dodgers need to make a splash after the McCord decline and the Angels big push.
I think the Rangers are way more in play on Fielder than most people think, especially if it’s a short term deal so Prince can wait for the market to improve. Between Moreland’s wrist, JOsh and Nelly’s long-term status, and the fact that Prince knocks 50 easy in our stadium makes a deal possible. If we signed him, we’d have Josh, Nelly and MY coming off the books in the next 3 years.
No matter the $, I don’t see Seattle. That place is a blackhole for hitters. Besides, Seattle is a ways off from being good enough to justify Prince. Why pay a guy who’ll bring you up to 500 ball.
The other teams have good 1Bs.
Baseball's hard, guys. I mean, it really is. You can love it but, believe me, it don't always love you back. It's kind of like dating a German chick, you know?
Nope. Not possible. Moving along...
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
You should tell that to the Seattle bloggers.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
You've got a lot on the line here IANF.
I already bought a Fielder Jersey because of you.
by lost in space on Jan 7, 2012 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
he is just jealous of eclou's fame a few months ago
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
go sign PF to a 4 year 106 million deal... or a 8 year with an opt out clause
160 million dollar contract… get it done. 3 billion dollar TV contract. like pissing in the ocean.
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 7, 2012 10:51 AM CST reply actions
Sullivan and Cameron have talked themselves into it.
http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2011/12/20/2651289/more-on-prince-fielder-and-opt-outs
http://www.ussmariner.com/2012/01/04/prince-fielder-opt-outs-and-a-contract-i-would-support/
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Cameron's structure doesn't make a lot of sense
Not sure that it works for either party.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 7, 2012 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
And that's Carruth, not Sullivan
The condescension and arrogance in the opening paragraphs is a giveaway.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 7, 2012 11:10 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"it's more fun to explore the nuance than to reach a conclusion"
/LOL’s Philosopher-King
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Hahah.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
What's absurd is that it especially doesn't make sense for the Mariners.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
What is absurd
is that I used to think the Mariners had bloggers who were rational… they just are able to look smart while being irrational fans
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
It blows my mind.
Seriously. I tried to be nice, but in my mind I was screaming at them. I think it lead to Matthew doing a post where he tried to project where the Mariners would be in 2013 or some such.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
I like to think that we were more rational about how bad the Rangers were in 2005-2008
I could be wrong though…
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
The Rangers were never THAT bad in that stretch, though
Its part of what made rebuilding more challenging…we didn’t get to draft a Dustin Ackley or a Danny Hultzen in the top 3 picks of the draft.
Texas had 79, 80, 75, and 79 wins in those seasons. Even in 2007, which people portray as the darkest days in Ranger history, Texas finished just 1 game behind Oakland and had the #11 pick in the draft.
The last time the Rangers lost 92 games was in 1985. Seattle has lost that many games 5 times in the last 8 years.
Ranger history involves more 40 degree days than epic periods of badness.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 7, 2012 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Yes, and it's starting to get to the Seattle bloggers' heads.
I’m convinced of it. They just want to see dongs at this point and they don’t care how (exaggeration).
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
2005-2008 was the golden era of the Treadmill of Mediocrity.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I never thought that about the M's bloggers.
They (and I’m talking Cameron more specifically) were shocked when their precious little team STBF in 2004.
When you have a team that old that finishes the last three months of 2003 below .500, you’re going to fall off a cliff.
2004 M’s ended up going 63-99.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
why?
Please tell me where I said I would not have sex with her. I dare you. - Loblaw
by Chrom on Jan 7, 2012 11:04 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
Because
An opt-out clause means that the team assumes all the risk for declining performance in the latter years of the deal, while not being able to capture the potential upside.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 7, 2012 11:08 AM CST up reply actions
There is basically a very small window
where it works out for the club. But the club is screwed on both sides of the window.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
It's almost exclusively to the players benefit.
If the remaining contract at the opt out point is going to pay them more than they are worth, they stay and you’re overpaying them.
If the remaining contract is going to pay them less than they are worth, they opt out and you lose a good player and the surplus value you could have had by paying them less than they are worth.
Fielder’s somewhat interesting because so many people are afraid of how he’ll age… but he is still relatively young.
Basically, if you give Fielder an opt out, you’re hoping he’s opts out at 30 or 31 to get a contract because he THINKS he’s worth more but really isn’t.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Boras knows this.. thats why an opt out is going to be a sticking point in any PF
long term contract discussions
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 7, 2012 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
Is this from your mysterious doctor friend?
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
no.. this is from my head
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 7, 2012 11:15 AM CST up reply actions
well
basically, signing an opt out contract basically means that the team is assuming some long-term downside risk in exchange for a discount. In essence, the team is selling the player an insurance policy against epic failure
It isn’t a fundamentally bad idea, depending on a team’s window, budget, and the contract parameters. But I’d say in the Rangers case, the team is close enough to being the best in baseball without him, and if they’re going to sign him, they presumably will have enough cash that they don’t need to give him that insurance policy.
If you’re a team who has a really short window, a limited budget, and is willing to risk the future, then sure. Maybe if you’re the Nationals and give him an opt-out around the time that Strasburg etc are ready to leave.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
The discount would have to be pretty substantial, though
And in most of the cases where we’ve seen opt-outs, that’s not the case.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 7, 2012 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
I agree
I’m of the opinion that if you can’t afford a guy without giving away big things like opt-outs, you probably can’t afford him at all.
That said, there probably is a dollar figure of the discount that would make it reasonable, and that really depends on the team’s situation. I really can’t see that being reasonable for the Rangers…
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Give me an example of how this discount works in practice. I'm curious.
Give me the parameters of a 7 year deal, both with and without the opt out.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
we should give him a bobby bonilla contract. 2 million a year for the next 80 years
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 7, 2012 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
It's hard to say
because the the two contracts that immediately come to mind are ARod and CC Sabathia, and both of them were already at the top of the pay scale.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
Vernon Wells got an opt out clause in his 7/$126 deal
He had the right to opt out after 2011, which would have meant forfeiting $63 million over the final 3 years of the deal.
So if he was worth $21 million per year or more, he would have opted out, because he could have gotten more money on the open market.
Since he wasn’t, the team was stuck with him.
And I’m not sure that giving him the opt-out clause saved the team significant money.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 7, 2012 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
Yes, but here's the weird thing about that contract:
08:$0.5M, 09:$1.5M, 10:$12.5M
TRADE
11:$23M, 12:$21M, 13:$21M, 14:$21M
The opt out was after 2011. The Blue Jays never actually saw the bad part of that contract.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
Well they gave him like a 25 million dollar signing bonus.
Split it between the first 3 years I think. Still a decent deal though.
by behindthebag on Jan 7, 2012 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
Oh wow.
I didn’t know the front-end “discount” was that steep. My hypothetical (below) may be totally unrealistic.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Sorry, look at what behindthebag said.
I didn’t see that part. So really, it was like:
08: $9M, 09: $10M, 10: $21M
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
there's the solution, then
just trade him to a stupid GM after year 3.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
Dayton Moore have I got a deal for you!
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
well, in the Wells case, the opt-out probably didn't save the team money since they were extending him at market value
but let’s use that general contract for illustration purposes, assuming it was flat
7/$126 ($18per) with an opt out after 4
Suppose without the opt-out, Wells would have cost 7/$140 ($20 per). (I doubt this would be the case)
Basically, the team is exchanging absorbing the long-term risk that years 5-7 he’ll worth less than market value for $2 million in savings each year.
This only makes sense if the present value of that savings is worth a lot to you right now.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Your last sentence is what I'm trying to figure out.
Something like this?
7/126: 13MM, 13MM, 15MM, 17MM, 21MM, 23 MM, 24MM (opt-out after year 4)
7/154: 18MM, 18MM, 20MM, 22MM, 24MM, 26MM, 26MM (no opt out)
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Yeah, it's the unevenly weighting things that has me reconsidering.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
My version was shorter.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
Not the only thing of yours that's shorter...
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
ghettobear is black.. i doubt its shorter
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 7, 2012 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
The first thing you think of is my penis.
As per usual.
I meant his username.
Mind on my junk… I’m watching you IANF.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Yeah, saw that one coming.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:19 AM CST up reply actions
With Fielder
If you give him a 8 year deal with a opt out after 4 you are taking on the risk of paying him through age 35 which I dont feel is really that big a risk. It may be where he is barely worth it the first 5 years and then becomes slightly overpaid the last three years. I dont see it being a case where hes going to fall off a cliff at age 33 or anything.
If he opts out its because he feels he can get another long term deal likely paying him through his age 38 or 39which then means you probably got roughly equal value for the years you paid him and didn’t have to pay those years where hes slightly overpaid and some other team ends up paying him for the years when hes likely very overpaid
I think the problem with opt outs is when like the Yankees they feel the need to re-sign their opt out guys in which case they paid close to equal value early and then re-upped them and big time overpay for the later years
x
If you give him a 8 year deal with a opt out after 4 you are taking on the risk of paying him through age 35 which I dont feel is really that big a risk.
Paying any player through age 35 when that player is in their 20s is a huge risk. You don’t think he’s going to fall off a cliff in his early 30s? Great. That’s what J.P. Ricciardi thought when he signed Vernon Wells (and gave him an opt-out clause), and that’s what the Angels thought when they gave Mo Vaughn (a player with a similar build and similar track record) a 6 year deal after his age 30 season.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 7, 2012 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
yeah
I think ARod’s first contract was actually a more ideal use of an opt out (other than the fact he was possibly being overpaid compared to what the market actually was for him). Basically, ARod was so young, that 7 years down the road there was a very good chance he’d opt out and not be a liability.
With Fielder, I’m guessing that there is a very good chance he won’t opt out. Which is almost certainly a lose scenario for whatever team has him.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
I can't believe I spent a significant portion of last winter
arguing against the people who thought it was crazy to pay Beltre into his mid30s and now we have people arguing for signing Prince into his mid30s.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Hahahahahahahaha
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Haha...
if it makes you feel better, I’m still a curmudgeon about signing anyone into their mid 30s.
Of course, I’m probably the only person happy they didn’t try hard to re-sign CJ for that same reason…
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
I was happy they didn't
A burden should never be something out of your control.
"I'm a Cowboys fan. And I hope they miss the playoffs and get the better draft pick. This team sucks. We're saving ourselves the embarrassment too. That's a major +" by JDT217 on Dec 26, 2011
His "struggles" in Seattle colored that debate
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I think its a bit different when signing a guy whos already 32 at the start of the deal into his mid 30's
And signing a guy in his late 20’s
The guy in his late 20’s you should still be expecting to get the prime of their career while the guy already in his 30’s theres the risk they are on the downside of their career through the whole deal
It looks like it's going to be a lot harder
to get surplus value out of the front end of Prince’s long term contract.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
And that the penalty will be much harsher on the back end.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
but you're forgetting that the Rangers had a 3b before last year
/ducks
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
[Throw tomato anyways]
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
Buddy Bell?
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
Pressure? If there’s any pressure it’s the pressure pressurizing the panty cannon.
Well, if you look at the heavy-player decline curve, age 33 is right about where you should expect him to fall off a cliff.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I don't think you should project like that.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not. I project there to be an undetectable designer steroid developed around 2016
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
see Wells, Vernon.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Ryin A on Jan 7, 2012 11:15 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
Assume a 4-year deal
Does Prince take a slightly less $ AAV to play with a contender? Does this help us with him? I’d take a little less to play in Texas than with Seattle, for example.
A burden should never be something out of your control.
"I'm a Cowboys fan. And I hope they miss the playoffs and get the better draft pick. This team sucks. We're saving ourselves the embarrassment too. That's a major +" by JDT217 on Dec 26, 2011
lets go to a japanese steakhouse today
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 7, 2012 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
Come to Houston
I’ll pay
A burden should never be something out of your control.
"I'm a Cowboys fan. And I hope they miss the playoffs and get the better draft pick. This team sucks. We're saving ourselves the embarrassment too. That's a major +" by JDT217 on Dec 26, 2011
We can take AJM out for his BIRTHDAY!
A burden should never be something out of your control.
"I'm a Cowboys fan. And I hope they miss the playoffs and get the better draft pick. This team sucks. We're saving ourselves the embarrassment too. That's a major +" by JDT217 on Dec 26, 2011
I'm going to Pump-It-Up this afternoon for my birthday
Since today is when Seth is having his birthday party.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 7, 2012 11:24 AM CST up reply actions
Dagnabbit
That’ll be fun seeing him have fun, though.
I loved places like that when I was his age
A burden should never be something out of your control.
"I'm a Cowboys fan. And I hope they miss the playoffs and get the better draft pick. This team sucks. We're saving ourselves the embarrassment too. That's a major +" by JDT217 on Dec 26, 2011
Yeah
When I was his age, it was 1977. We didn’t even have Chuck E. Cheese back then.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 7, 2012 11:32 AM CST up reply actions
x
A burden should never be something out of your control.
"I'm a Cowboys fan. And I hope they miss the playoffs and get the better draft pick. This team sucks. We're saving ourselves the embarrassment too. That's a major +" by JDT217 on Dec 26, 2011
what was the name of the place before ChuckECheese?
Wasn’t it Boardwalk Pizza or something? Up on Cherry Lane in Fort Worth
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Crystal's Pizza?
That was on Camp Bowie, I think. That was the place we used to go as a kid that had video games and all that stuff.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 7, 2012 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, Crystal's was on Camp Bowie getting close to Como
I think I was thinking Showbiz pizza, as IANF mentions
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
it was SHOWBIZ
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 7, 2012 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
Showbiz was the competitor
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Yeah, I think Showbiz made it to FW before Chuck E. Cheese did
We hit up Showbiz once it showed up.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 7, 2012 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
I remember Showbiz
A burden should never be something out of your control.
"I'm a Cowboys fan. And I hope they miss the playoffs and get the better draft pick. This team sucks. We're saving ourselves the embarrassment too. That's a major +" by JDT217 on Dec 26, 2011
What was the difference?
Characters that played the main stage?
by lost in space on Jan 7, 2012 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
Basically
Showbiz featured a gorilla, Chuck E. Cheese a rat.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 7, 2012 12:03 PM CST up reply actions
The animatronic stage at Chuck E. Cheese was the worst part.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Pizza n Pipes on NW Hwy by the old Agora in Dallas.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I think so...but we're talking mid to late 70s since I was there.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Yeah, we went there mostly after soccer games and sometimes for birthday parties.
I certainly never went there after ’82.
In Dallas there was this barn with small amusement rides called Pennywhistle Park
that would rent out for kid’s birthdays. It had nothing on Chuck E. Cheese, but a party there was a big deal to a seven year-old.
i always had my bday parties at putt-putt
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 7, 2012 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
Putt-Putt and Mountasia.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Penny Whistle park was the bomb.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Pennywhistle Park
Where was that again?
Oh my god, childhood.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Jan 7, 2012 3:46 PM CST up reply actions
IIRC, Northwest Hwy just East of Lake Highlands Drive.
According to Googlemaps there’s a business called Lindsey Tree Service in that location.
That's a total mind reference
I would have never of remembered that place without someone mentioning it. For some reason, the main thing I remember about it was getting a wooden nickel.
OH SNAP, SON.
PARTY TIME.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Yes, because people care about how you hit in pennant races and the playoffs.
Also, home ballpark should factor into his decision if he were to do this.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
The assumption is the flawed part.
Unless something huge changes, he’s not signing a true 4-year contract.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
I guess I had heard that this is something that was up in the air
Why won’t he?
A burden should never be something out of your control.
"I'm a Cowboys fan. And I hope they miss the playoffs and get the better draft pick. This team sucks. We're saving ourselves the embarrassment too. That's a major +" by JDT217 on Dec 26, 2011
I think if he can't get a 7-8 year deal
He’ll do a 1 year deal and hope the market is better in 2012-13 offseason.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 7, 2012 11:25 AM CST up reply actions
That would be fairly surprising to me.
I still think he’d take a 2 or 3 year deal over that. People are still going to be hesitant about giving him an 8 year deal next year.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:27 AM CST up reply actions
Would we potentially get
a supplemental pick or would it be negotiated out? Can they do that?
A burden should never be something out of your control.
"I'm a Cowboys fan. And I hope they miss the playoffs and get the better draft pick. This team sucks. We're saving ourselves the embarrassment too. That's a major +" by JDT217 on Dec 26, 2011
He'd be a Type A and Texas would make the qualifying offer, so sure.
We’d have to give one up this year to get him for one year, though.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
So where does he end up in your hypo?
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Back in Milwaukee?
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
If Prince was going to agree to a one year deal somehwhere
Why not go back to Milwaukee and make one more run with Grienke?
There's always next year.
Rinse
Repeat
by DerekSTheRed on Jan 7, 2012 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
They already signed Aramis Ramirez.
Though now I see that he’s only making $6M next year. Still, it would be surprising to me.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:32 AM CST up reply actions
My guess is that if he were willing to do a 1 year deal
the number of teams who’d be willing to go for him jumps up and prices Milwaukee out of it
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
They're all in this year since it's Grienke's last year
They can back load his contract the same way the Marlins backloaded Pudge’s.
There's always next year.
Rinse
Repeat
by DerekSTheRed on Jan 7, 2012 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
how do you backload a 1 year deal?
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
One giant September payment.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
deferred money
again see what the Marlins did with Pudge.
There's always next year.
Rinse
Repeat
by DerekSTheRed on Jan 7, 2012 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
Pudge's 2003 contract
with the Marlins.
But his willingness to sign a one-year deal—he signed for $10 million, with $7 million deferred interest-free beyond 2003
But as GB reminded me, Aramis Ramirez means they’ve moved on.
There's always next year.
Rinse
Repeat
by DerekSTheRed on Jan 7, 2012 11:40 AM CST up reply actions
x
There's always next year.
Rinse
Repeat
by DerekSTheRed on Jan 7, 2012 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
They already did with Aramis Ramirez.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah that's the sticking point.
There's always next year.
Rinse
Repeat
by DerekSTheRed on Jan 7, 2012 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
And Braun, but that doesn't kick in until 2015-2017
My mind just says throw ball throw hard and strike. - Marteen
Why does Prince accept being backloaded in one year?
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
That'd be more like a back-filling, amirite?
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Nope.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:31 AM CST up reply actions
Dodgers or Mets with new ownership
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Oh... that's long term.
If he signs a 1 year deal… I can’t see any place better than Texas because of our park and playoff chances.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
This I agree with.
And availability of 1B being open.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:33 AM CST up reply actions
He would probably put up the biggest numbers over here.
Exactly what he’s looking for.
by behindthebag on Jan 7, 2012 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
Milwaukee favors LHB power hitters.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
It's the playoff chances that make the difference.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Yu don't think they would contend with Prince next year???
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
You think he would put up bigger numbers there than here?
The WS chances here are higher too.
by behindthebag on Jan 7, 2012 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
I feel like I'm drinking crazy juice.
We all realize that we’re talking about the team that won the NL Central, made it to the NLCS, and would be better on paper if they brought Prince back, right?
They didn’t have Aramis Ramirez last year. We’re talking about a team that already mashed [with 5 guys at 119 wRC+ or higher] bringing in another good hitter and still trotting out a rotation that’s (much) better at the top than the Rangers?
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
I agree with GB
How do they not win the Central next year?
There's always next year.
Rinse
Repeat
by DerekSTheRed on Jan 7, 2012 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
Wainwright returns to form.
Lance Berkman cashes in on year 2 of his deal with the devil…
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
And Beltran
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I mean, it's not a lock.
St. Louis will still be good. The Reds could be better.
But this is a team that was 8th and 11th in Position player and Starting Pitching WAR last year, respectively.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
Cincy needs to cobble together a better rotation than what they've got right now
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Yeah.
Though Latos should help…even if I don’t like the park transition.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
It is trendy here for people to thinking the Brewers aren't good
since everyone is forever delusional in thinking Greinke will be a Ranger in 4 months.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
shut up, man
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Oh...
You’re Yu above was a typo. I couldn’t figure out what you meant… but you actually meant what you asked.
I think they contend if they bring back Fielder… but Ramirez isn’t a tremendous upgrade because of his defensive liability and losing Braun for 50 games sucks.
It’s a weaker division… but the Reds and Cardinals will contend as well.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Also,
Milwaukee’s park factors for LHB [100 is neutral]:
HR: 118
wOBA: 100
Texas:
HR: 119
wOBA: 103
Very, very similar.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:44 AM CST up reply actions
How are these calculated by the way?
Reason I ask is I wonder if the Rangers having three quality LHP (which would theoretically neutralize LHB) along with Josh having a down year last year depresses our parks numbers
It's [very] complicated.
But I do know that StatCorner regresses heavily and uses 5 years worth of data. FanGraphs uses 3 years, I believe, but it’s much harder to get a hold of their numbers.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
So do you believe our numbers could be depressed given our rotation makeup the last few years
Along with Hamilton having 2 of 3 “down” years lately as our only true LH threat on our roster
ideally, the numbers should be independent of what players are on the team
it should have more to do with the players’ and opponents’ home/road splits.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
but in general
I’m pretty skeptical of things like park factors. I think they are good for coarse purposes – Milwaukee and Texas are both good for lefty home run hitters. But it is hard to make any arguments more specific than that.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Prince is a lefty home run hitter
A burden should never be something out of your control.
"I'm a Cowboys fan. And I hope they miss the playoffs and get the better draft pick. This team sucks. We're saving ourselves the embarrassment too. That's a major +" by JDT217 on Dec 26, 2011
I'm fine with them when they're regressed enough
and use large enough samples. It’s certainly better than ignoring the issue all together.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
I agree
I’m fine with the way you’re using them here.
My wariness more relates to when people act like they’re incredibly precise numbers. When in fact they’re pretty noisy, which makes their inclusion in things like WAR calculations, etc problematic. A necessary evil, perhaps, but I suspect they can add quite a bit of noise; particularly at the extremes like Texas, Colorado, San Diego, and Oakland.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Texas actually isn't that extreme.
San Diego and Pre-Humidor Colorado were, though.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
well, right now no one looks extreme compared to San Diego
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
See Below.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
No.
It’s based on a much larger sample size just to deal with issues like that.
Now, the thing that I always wonder about is what happens when you have a big discrepancy in parks. For example, in the AL West, the Rangers play in a very hitter friendly park at home and 2 caverns on the road. That would seemingly make it much more difficult.
I think Tampa is the only pitcher friendly park in the AL East, but I could be wrong.
Similar problem for Colorado.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
He'd also be changing leagues, though
Seeing new pitchers, and playing in the harder league.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 7, 2012 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
Let's just have lots of fun here...
Would you give him a 2 year deal with an opt out after one year?
Say year 1, $18 million, year 2 $23 million
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
I'd think Boras would reverse those numbers
But I actually kind of like the idea
My mind just says throw ball throw hard and strike. - Marteen
I'd do
Year 1: 16M
Year 2: 25M
A burden should never be something out of your control.
"I'm a Cowboys fan. And I hope they miss the playoffs and get the better draft pick. This team sucks. We're saving ourselves the embarrassment too. That's a major +" by JDT217 on Dec 26, 2011
He's going to want more money
because he is taking on the long-term risk.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
More front-loaded or more AAV?
A burden should never be something out of your control.
"I'm a Cowboys fan. And I hope they miss the playoffs and get the better draft pick. This team sucks. We're saving ourselves the embarrassment too. That's a major +" by JDT217 on Dec 26, 2011
Probably both.
He’s looking for an 8 year contract for more than that.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
That's exactly what I was thinking.
Maybe a 3 year deal with opt outs after each? I don’t know. Some way to guarantee that he will make $50M but not incur the long-term risk?
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
Because it doesn't give him the long-term security or money that he wants.
And he assumes risk of massive injury or decline stealing roughly half his career earnings.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
I'm sold
So there goes my hypothetical
A burden should never be something out of your control.
"I'm a Cowboys fan. And I hope they miss the playoffs and get the better draft pick. This team sucks. We're saving ourselves the embarrassment too. That's a major +" by JDT217 on Dec 26, 2011
Yep.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 11:24 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed - and all more relevant on a 4-year deal
A burden should never be something out of your control.
"I'm a Cowboys fan. And I hope they miss the playoffs and get the better draft pick. This team sucks. We're saving ourselves the embarrassment too. That's a major +" by JDT217 on Dec 26, 2011
Cecil saying his son is all but a Nat.
Any validity to this?
"Back in Irish's day you had to kill a man before you were taken seriously in polite society." - Aquaman56 06/25/10
by Samuel_L_Bronkowitz on Jan 7, 2012 11:30 AM CST via mobile reply actions
I thought they were estranged?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Apparently they've reconnected according to internet.
"Back in Irish's day you had to kill a man before you were taken seriously in polite society." - Aquaman56 06/25/10
by Samuel_L_Bronkowitz on Jan 7, 2012 11:33 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Says Cecil?
Potentially 180 million reasons for him to try I guess.
by behindthebag on Jan 7, 2012 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
They talk all the time, so...
A burden should never be something out of your control.
"I'm a Cowboys fan. And I hope they miss the playoffs and get the better draft pick. This team sucks. We're saving ourselves the embarrassment too. That's a major +" by JDT217 on Dec 26, 2011
NO MONEY
/kidding
"The fattest countries have the biggest tits" -Texas Jihad, 10-12-11
by hornedfrogs45 on Jan 7, 2012 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
This is what I've been predicting. 7/160 to the Nats
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
not valid
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 7, 2012 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
/DFW Doctors
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
/college roomate and best friends dad is bob simpsons pilot
cough cough
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 7, 2012 11:44 AM CST up reply actions
No?
That doesn’t even appear to be what he said at all.
he was asked if he knew where Prince would end up signing this winter? The elder Fielder explained that he and his son are once again communicating and he told him he, “… would like to see [Prince] in a Toronto Blue Jays uniform,” but doesn’t think that will happen. Asked if the chatter tying Prince to Washington was real, Fielder said, “It ain’t real until it’s done. That’s the way I look at it. Everybody can talk. Talk is cheap until you get in there and say you’re going to make a deal.”
Star-divide
“That’s the way you’ve got to look at it ,” Cecil said, “and I think that’s the way [Prince] and his agent, Scott Boras are looking at it. Everybody’s talking the game but somebody’s got to walk the walk. Until that happens… He’s wide open. So, that last minute person can come in there and make something happen. You just never know in negotiations or being a free agent how that’s going to take place.” Cecil said he wouldn’t recommend one league over another to his son, saying it doesn’t matter either way, “… if you can hit, you’re going to hit,” but he did say it’s important to, “… go with the right fit.”
“You’ve got an opportunity now as a free agent to pick a team that you want to play for,” the 27-year-old slugger’s father explained, “and you need to pick the right fit. Meaning that you’ve got to see who’s in the lineup, you’ve got to check out the whole team. You don’t want to go to a team that you’re going to have to wait five, six years to try to have a chance to win. You want to be able to go in right now and make a difference. And I think if you look at some of those teams that have been inquiring, the Nationals are definitely one of those teams. The Texas Rangers would be definitely one of those teams. You know, the Blue Jays, on their way up, that would be a great team to go sit in the lineup with him and [Jose] Bautista.”
Nice.
Sounds like he would be (very) interested in playing for the Rangers.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
I think the fact that he hasn't signed
suggests that he is pretty interested in Texas. Sure there is some strategic value in wanting Texas to be actively involved, but given that waiting longer for Texas appears to drop more other teams off the radar, I doubt he’s benefitting by waiting this long unless he actually wants Texas to be a legit suitor
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
I'm starting to think so, too.
If for no other reason than to make other teams buy him out of what would be a very good situation.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
taco cabana or schlotzkys?
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 7, 2012 11:48 AM CST reply actions
Does Schlotzky's sell tortillas at 3 am?
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
i meant for lunch today.. bout to run over there
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 7, 2012 11:49 AM CST up reply actions
i have worked on a food shoot for Taco Cabana
you don’t want to see the slab of ______(?) they cut the beef off of
by oc on Jan 7, 2012 2:07 PM CST up reply actions
Boras' Problem
Is that he’s trying to use Pujols as the comp. The K that he sh be trying to achieve is the Gonzalez K – 7/154. And Gonz is the much better player.
Jack Daddy
eaton and otsuka.... im going to go throw up.. thanks jack daddy
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 7, 2012 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
Jack Daddy will make you jump, jump
Daddy Jack will make you jump, jump
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 7, 2012 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
I'm still wearing my pants backwards
Not so much a fashion statement but so I can poop more quickly.
Football can go to hell. The Rangers aren't ready for football season and neither am I.
by WyoRanger on Jan 7, 2012 3:07 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
did you just say poop?
"If he ain't struck you out, then you ain't nobody." - Ricky Henderson after Nolan Ryan's 5,000 strike out game
I have a hard time believing...
…that the FO would go into this season relying completely on Mitch to heal properly, given what the Angels did and the window of opportunity at present…at least I’d hope they wouldn’t sit on their hands there.
As a fellow Boswell graduate, that is the ONLY reason I’d like to see Hawpe here. I’d rather those emergency ABs go to Olt…or Young/Napoli.
This is setting up too well for a Fielder signing…for a change, there is nobody like the Yanks or Sox to drive up the price…and it’s certainly an area of need. I hope JD is doing some of his Ninja stuff behind the scenes and is making some headway with Fielder. I think we’ve learned that JD likes to surprise people.
You'd rather emergency ABs go to someone who has never played above high-A?
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
yeah.. michael young and naps have it covered if need be... rotate guys in the DH
spots and have gentry/borbon/martin
having a badass catcher and a mlb level catcher really help here. and naps is so versatile.
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 7, 2012 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
fun fact about napoli.. in between innings
he goes up to the cuervo club and drinks canadian mist
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 7, 2012 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
In Olt's case...
…I’d expect that to be evaluated after spring training. I don’t want to see it, of course, as I’d like to see Olt developed more traditionally. Even so, Olt is a college player who will now be fast-tracked because of his recent successes. This isn’t a 20 year old kid…he’s not that far away. And even if Olt didn’t make the offensive adjustment, his defense would probably be of some value.
Hawpe has 5.8 fWAR during his 8 year career. My point was that such productivity could just as easily come from my dead grandmother.
No, I don’t WANT to see it…I would just view that as the lesser of two evils…Hawpe sucks.
by Bats and Balls on Jan 7, 2012 2:47 PM CST up reply actions
I got AJM a giftcard to "mexican inn" what did you guys get him?
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 7, 2012 12:02 PM CST reply actions
Mexican Inn is greatness
We usually end up going to the one on 8th Avenue, because its less crowded (which means that there’s less opportunity for the kids to create chaos). And we can usually make the children behave there for a while.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 7, 2012 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
they have brisket enchiladas that are fantastic.
i have a friend and his wife that ALWAYS choose mexican inn in bedford.
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 7, 2012 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
different styles... i throw mexican inn in the category of el chicos and on the border and what not
glorias/uncle julios/blue mesa are in a different category
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Jan 7, 2012 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
I could see lumping Mexican Inn with El Chicos
On the Boarder should get lumped in with Chilis and Appleby’s.
Pulidos is its own category for Tex-Mex food for the Gods.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Pulidos is the goods,
But the El Fenix down by the West End is food of the Gods.
And don’t ever eat at the Mexican Inn by the ballpark, it fucking sucks compared to the one downtown.
"It’s Advil and beef in the Texas Rangers, you yankee bastard."
- Nolan Ryan
Hahah.
My wife’s family are amongst the biggest El Fenix fans ever. I like their chips and salsa, but….
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
I've never been a huge El Fenix fan
though I always enjoyed the one in Ridgmar mall.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Mi Cocina...Awesome margaritas (don't drink more than 2) and
the sunset sauce is the best queso I’ve ever had in my life.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I drank a few too many Mambo Taxis at Mi Cocina
then puked on the shell-covered floor of Billy Miner’s an hour later.
"It’s Advil and beef in the Texas Rangers, you yankee bastard."
- Nolan Ryan
With great strength
comes great drunkedness.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
They all suck cept for the one downtown.
But that one downtown is special.
Vaquero Plate FTMFW.
"It’s Advil and beef in the Texas Rangers, you yankee bastard."
- Nolan Ryan
Have you tried Esparanza's
It’s right around the corner from the 8th Avenue Mexican Inn and owned by the same people as Jot T’s but without the ridiculous line and they take credit cards. They also have much better food than Mexican Inn.
There's always next year.
Rinse
Repeat
Did you ever try Uncle Julio's?
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jan 7, 2012 3:36 PM CST up reply actions
Really?
Uncle Julio’s is fantastic. Quality ingredients.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
You think the ingredients aren't quality?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I don't think their food is anywhere near fantastic.
I’ve never been in their kitchen, so I don’t know what ingredients they’re using.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
Ah.
I’ve met very few who didn’t enjoy Uncle Julio’s.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I think it's... mediocre.
About what I’d expect from a chain of their size.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
If Uncle Julio's is mediocre.
You must feel OTB is absolutely awful.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
That's 3 minutes from my house.
I need to try it.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Oh, indeed.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
by Snark on Jan 7, 2012 4:41 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
We have different values for replacement level food.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Very possible...
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
by Snark on Jan 7, 2012 4:53 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Uncle Julio's is a -5.0 WAR establishment.
"It’s Advil and beef in the Texas Rangers, you yankee bastard."
- Nolan Ryan
Jesus.
How do you people feel about La Hacienda Ranch and Blue Goose?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Or Posadas.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
i love posadas
id bathe in their garlic butter sauce or whatever that goes w/the shrimp fajitas
No but I would.
They used to do (and still might) a Wednesday lunch buffet that I’d hit about once a month. I work right next to the Blue Mesa at 121 and the Tollway
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I enjoy the hell outta of it.
Be careful not to fill up on those sweet potato chips, addictive.
Que sera, sera.
BGoose is okay
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
sauce w/ fajitas?
poser
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Ryin A on Jan 7, 2012 4:40 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
Snaps Turbarski
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Ryin A on Jan 7, 2012 4:53 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
coleman?
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Ryin A on Jan 7, 2012 5:01 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Uncle Julio's sucks.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Food snobs everywhere.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
No, see, there are about a dozen ma and pop tex-mex places within 1 mile of the Uncle Julio's location on Lemmon Ave. that serve superior food for a lower price.
YOU’RE THE FOOD SNOB, STICK. COME AT ME, BRO!
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I go to the one off the tollway in Addison.
I actually used to live across the one off of Lemon but never went there.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Oh.
Addison.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Park Factor
The Rangers are not that extreme. The left most dot are the Padres. The right most dot is Colorado.
I expect that once 2011 gets incorporated, the Rangers will move more to the right. Brutal summer.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
Do they offer that with L/R splits?
A burden should never be something out of your control.
"I'm a Cowboys fan. And I hope they miss the playoffs and get the better draft pick. This team sucks. We're saving ourselves the embarrassment too. That's a major +" by JDT217 on Dec 26, 2011
I inputted those manually.
You could do the same for the splits.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
That number for San Diego seems pretty mild
I know somewhere I saw a number for them that looked quite a bit lower. Don’t know what year though.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
also
2010 was a fluke year for the Padres, I wonder if that could have anything to do it…
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
That's 3 or 5 previous years of data.
I can’t remember which.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 12:24 PM CST up reply actions
so that is really 200?-2010 park factor
not just 2010 park factor
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
My wife yells at me if I don't label a graph correctly.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
No.
It’s their 2010 park factor because that number is what is/should be used to adjust stats. But that number comes from data from 200x-2010.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 7, 2012 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
Something about these semantics is making me uncomfortable...
If there is an average from 2006-2010, shouldn’t that be called the “2006-2010 Park Factor” and if that number is going to be used to correct a specific season’s stats, should that season be 2008?
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
No.
What if they made a change to the park in 2009. Why would you want to backdate it? In this case, you’d love to have 4 years of data post-change and you can’t just use 2 years of data, so 2010 would have pre-change data. But there’s no need to alter the 2008 data.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
well, if they made a change to the ballpark in 2009
why would we want to use data from 2006-2008 to affect 2010’s numbers?
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Because it would be far too noisy
to just use 2 years worth of numbers.
In the case of a new ballpark, they just use the numbers from the new park, but they have (much) less confidence in those numbers. They may go back and adjust the numbers in that case, but I’m not sure.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
Sure
I’m just saying that your example cuts both ways…
Here is a question: why is it noisy? Is it because there just aren’t enough data points, or is iit because of real factors (weather, wind patterns, field conditions, etc). Because if it is the latter, sure there is variance, but that variance is actually meaningful.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Think about how noisy BABIP is from year to year.
This is that, but with much smaller sample sizes.
The theory behind it involves looking at how players perform in that stadium and outside that stadium, but that can involve some really small sample sizes.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
of course
I get that looking at home road splits and trying to normalize things requires a lot of data points.
But there is a trade off between adding more data just to increase the N and losing the underlying things that you are measuring.
You’re a biologist. It is like doing a group of 10 animals, then another group of 10 animals, and then another group of 10 animals, on and on until you eventually reach significance. Sure, you may have a significant result, but the data arises from so many different sources that sometimes you have to wonder if you’ve really captures what you think you are looking at.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
They are also regressing it to the mean very heavily.
That’s why there’s not as big of a spread as you would guess. And I agree with that. It’s a tricky area, it makes sense to be less confident.
"I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." - Jon Daniels
This reminds me of a talk I gave the other day
where I highlighted some concept that everyone was wrong about, and people believed my argument, but when they asked what I’d do about, I had to say I have no idea.
Obviously Park Factors are something that we need to have some notion of. They do represent a non-trivial component of players’ stats. But I worry about the precision at which some people use them. Rather, I suspect they’re a lot closer to Managerial WAR or evaulating a catchers’ contribution to pitching performance than people make it out to be. Just because someone can average a bunch of data and do some sort of Bayesian correction doesn’t mean that they shoudl get to present numbers that are so precise.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
This is a problem with saberism in general.
Lots of point estimates, not enough confidence intervals.
It’s one thing I give BP credit for, though they’re not consistent enough.
Garoon: Banned on LSB. Available Only Via Supplement.
I wouldn't know how but I trust ya :)
A burden should never be something out of your control.
"I'm a Cowboys fan. And I hope they miss the playoffs and get the better draft pick. This team sucks. We're saving ourselves the embarrassment too. That's a major +" by JDT217 on Dec 26, 2011
Question answered
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Wrong thread
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Brandon Belt / Aubrey Huff and they apparently don't have $$$ to spend on
players if they let Beltran hit free agency.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
They're also trying to pay off their ballpark as well, I think.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
They are planning on using any money they have...
to try and extend Cain and Lincecum.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
a grown man needs a babysitter?
jesus christ
Are you suggesting JC becomes Josh's babysitter
Pretty sure he’s too busy with the Broncos.
Football can go to hell. The Rangers aren't ready for football season and neither am I.
by WyoRanger on Jan 7, 2012 3:14 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
It's more like
only a grown man would admit he needs a babysitter in that situation. Kudos to Hamilton.
Some see a glass half empty, some a glass half full. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be. - George Carlin
I'm all for a one year madson deal
Either great insurance for the rest of the pen or flip him at the deadline for a quality 1B or OF prospect.
by Sherman McCoy on Jan 7, 2012 1:07 PM CST via mobile reply actions
So when do the Cobra Lewis extension talks begin?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
As much as I admire Colby as our all-time playoff wins leader...
probably right after the Rusty Greer extension is consummated.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
Pressure? If there’s any pressure it’s the pressure pressurizing the panty cannon.
If he has another average Cobra year...he's gonna get at least 3/30.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
x
@JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman
#rangers have a lot going on. also would like to lock 2012-13 free agents napoli, hamilton, adams & lewis
https://twitter.com/#!/JonHeymanCBS/status/155312944270422017
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Heyman must be bored.
Napoli extension has been publically disavowed (though that doesn’t necessarily mean anything) and I would think they would wait and see how Adams and Lewis rebound from injuries. Plus with Colby, I think someone else will be willing to pay him more than what we think he is worth.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
Pressure? If there’s any pressure it’s the pressure pressurizing the panty cannon.
Did I read ...maybe BBTIA ...that Napoli's agent wanted 5/75?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I haven't seen that anywhere.
But Bautista only got 5/64 coming off of a 50 HR year.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Saw your post about Napoli being a fluke last year...I disagree.
He may not post another OPS above 1000 but I think he’s money in the bank to have at least a .900 OPS.
He hits everywhere, ‘Stick. Home, road, doesn’t matter.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
But that's the fluke.
I said he’d do 880 to 920 next year… so we roughly agree.
But he did 1050… that’s a fluke.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Maybe it's a fluke but maybe it's also a reflection of
not having to hit 81 games in Anaheim.
Looks like he made some adjustments and picked up some confidence along the way.
I think a .900 OPS is the floor with him next year. If I’m projecting, I’m giving at least a .950 in 2012.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
900 is a massive floor.
No one else on the entire team had a .900 OPS last year other than Napoli.
Beltre and Hamilton came closest at 892 and 882 respectively.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Napoli had a combined OPS of right around .900 from 2008-2009
and that was with half his games at LAAA.
Naps OPS last year was higher on the road (1178) than at home (1011).
Naps slugged .663 on the road last year. That’s Bonds 2000 territory.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Check that...1078 OPS on the road last year.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Josh Hamilton had a 1064 OPS in 2010
And 882 in 2011.
Things happen… it’s very improbable to keep up that kind of pace.
Napoli COULD do 950 or 900… but setting the floor at 900 and the projection at 950 is very improbable.
It’s like setting a football line at 21 in the NFL. Teams win by that much all the time… but you can’t set that at the mid point… usually no matter the teams.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Having a 1050 OPS would be improbable but he's established
he has the skill to do it.
I’d be shocked if his OPS is below .900 in 2012 if he stays in Texas this entire season and gets 450-550 plate appearances.
I take it that if he wants 5/67…one more year + one million more per year than VMart…you’re fine with him going to free agency?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Yeah
I don’t think there’s anyone in baseball whose floor in OPS next year is 900.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 7, 2012 2:57 PM CST up reply actions
But he hits well everywhere, Adam.
Here, over there, everywhere!
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
I'm going to be shocked if Napoli's OPS is below .900 in 2012.
Did you ever hear what JD’s extension offer to Napoli was?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
well... according to yu
it was below your 2012 OPS projection for him
by RangerMad on Jan 7, 2012 3:35 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
Colby needs to show that his sudden inability to stop giving up dongers was a fluke.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
yeah
No way I extend him unless he’s actually effective for a good number of his starts next year.
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
And if he actually effective, the price goes way up.
His biggest issue is pitching half his games in Arlington.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
?
So the rangers should give him an extension? Are we moving that i didnt know about?
by CDFAN on Jan 8, 2012 5:34 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I still think they play 81 games a year on the road.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
I think it depends on how everyone else does too.
If we still have Darvish, Holland, Harrison and Feliz and they’re all doing fairly well… confident in being 3.0 WAR pitchers, I suspect someone cheaper like NeRa, MPer, Ogando or inexpensive one year guy would vie for the other spot.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Yeah. We have a lot of younger, less expensive options.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
Pressure? If there’s any pressure it’s the pressure pressurizing the panty cannon.
I just don't see how this team could be stupid enough to trade for Napoli (a platoon player, at best, and one who can't catch)
Giving up real value from the bullpen, and then sign him to some long-ass extension. That’s Dumbass.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Colby Lewis has zero experience in The Show.
JD has his thumbs in his ass on this one.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Nelson Cruz will never hit left handed hitting in The Show.
Better sign Hank to a 3/30 and keep Elvis down in the farm.
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
by vfn on Jan 7, 2012 2:07 PM CST up reply actions
Anybody remember why Brandon Boggs got 334 plate appearances in 2008?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Pretty good hitter against LH pitching that year.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
the fucking iphone came out in 2008
join the class shitforbrains
by oc on Jan 7, 2012 2:48 PM CST up reply actions
4/56 to a player who comes with instructions?
Well, maybe. But if I’m Napoli’s agent and the Rangers come to me with a 5/70 offer, I tell them to Ess My Dee.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Napoli can't be worth shit.
Scioscia, God of Catching, threw him out.
Ever been in a boardroom, or a gang fight? Ever save a life? Ever won a court case against the odds? Ever held a dying buddy in your arms?.- jackanape on "perspective," 11/8/2010.
"do you a jet ski rental place would work here" - Mike E, 5/10/2011.
Only hitting .179
How many players do you know in a full season even though it’s only April have hit .197 and yet slugged .450?
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
by vfn on Jan 7, 2012 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
His RISP on The Road tells me he's falling off The Cliff of Unrequited Expectations
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Balls of Hindsight
Someone’s cupping them while sucking that Dick of Research
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
by vfn on Jan 7, 2012 2:49 PM CST up reply actions
The Informal Fallacy 69
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Said "Fuck You, you're a DH, I'm Rollin' With Mathis"
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Why didn't anyone else sign Colby for that
Ipso facto he must suck.
Football can go to hell. The Rangers aren't ready for football season and neither am I.
by WyoRanger on Jan 7, 2012 3:21 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I wonder how much the accountability partner earns?
Can I become Dutch’s accountability partner? I have a left arm and he throws lefthanded, so we obviously have a lot in common.
Evan_P_Grant Evan Grant
Should Rangers turn attention to Prince? Behind paywall, I say they Party Like it’s 1999: dallasne.ws/y0zJCR Oops. Wrong Prin
I like Steak.
so evan says because the world is ending
it doesn’t matter that we sign him to a long term deal?
I won't spoil the ending for yu
One point: Rangers only have one LH power bat in the lineup. Really no other options until after 2013 (Votto). Rangers need Hamilton or Fielder. If Josh sticks to wanting ~6yrs/$100M then they may be better off signing Fielder.
by RangerMad on Jan 7, 2012 7:33 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
it was in today's Sunday paper
by RangerMad on Jan 7, 2012 7:24 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
People still read the paper?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
some fun facts
Fielder played in all 162 games last year and has played in the most games since 2006.
by RangerMad on Jan 7, 2012 7:39 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
Does Evan say how much he'd offer Fielder?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Josh doesn't want to be paid in tacos
by RangerMad on Jan 7, 2012 7:49 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
Darvish
Any rumors on Yu Darvish contracts? I’m confident the Rangers can sign him. Hope he signs soon.
by Ryan2907 on Jan 8, 2012 8:13 AM CST via Android app reply actions
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