Saturday morning Rangers things
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 11, 2012 10:02 AM CST
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We're back into the realm of quiet vis-a-vis Rangers news.
The Rangers hired an athletic trainer for Yu Darvish.
Terence Moore talks about Josh Hamilton, Oil Can Boyd, and staying sober.
Behind the paywall, Evan Grant talks about Roy Oswalt -- who he's been urging the Rangers to acquire since 2010 -- and says that it would be a mistake not to sign him now.
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Napoli "settles" for $ 10 million in next couple of days.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Ehh
I think the Rangers backed themselves into a corner here by offering only 8.3 mil
I think Napoli and his agent feel pretty confident that if they go to a hearing they will win and so I think the Rangers will have to go to 10.5 for him to agree on something.
I like EG more than some here
But paying to read why he thinks Oswalt is necessary is not something I want to do. Although I’m curious. I like reading dumb things.
Football can go to hell. The Rangers aren't ready for football season and neither am I.
by WyoRanger on Feb 11, 2012 10:17 AM CST via mobile reply actions
I'm sure it boils down to something like YOU CAN NEVER HAVE ENOUGH PITCHIN'
WHEN WE GONNA GET SOME PITCHIN’ ROUND HERE
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
EG;DR
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 11, 2012 10:21 AM CST up reply actions 8 recs
pluS
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, jonthefon, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
I can't read the article...
However, I suspect the argument is that Oswalt is a legit #1 when he’s healthy, he’s battle-tested and with playoff experience, and he would be a great leader for a rotation that is full of guys with limited experience.
Grant has long been a fan of Oswalt.
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 11, 2012 10:26 AM CST up reply actions
I'm a long fan of Oswalt
just like I am a long fan of Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, Greg Maddux and Nolan Ryan
Doesn’t mean any of them should be in the Rangers rotation right now
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
If any of them were worth 2+ fWAR last year in the worst season of their lives and willing to sign a one year near-to-below market deal here
then that comparison would be pretty apt.
But they’re all way older than Oswalt and way more retired.
My mind just says throw ball throw hard and strike. - Marteen
I'm still scared of his back issues.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
This
There was a time to get Oswalt and that was before we had 7 legitimate starting options for 5 spots.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
So, at what point are you experienced?
After three World Series appearances?
Defending Big D Check it out
Twitter
"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
We all have.
Mostly. Doesn’t mean we want him now.
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, jonthefon, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
dumb things?
we’re ALREADY talking about all the ways we can go about limiting Yu’s and Feliz’s innings. 223.1 innings (392 if you include Ogando) is a pretty large hole to fill.
Looks like Buddy Smokes found a job
Perseverance isn't just the willingness to work hard. It's that, plus the willingness to be stubborn about your own belief in yourself."
---Merlin Olsen
This
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
"And when Josh leaves, The Window closes." JW 2-9-12
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Feb 11, 2012 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
Thought Goet banned him?
Perseverance isn't just the willingness to work hard. It's that, plus the willingness to be stubborn about your own belief in yourself."
---Merlin Olsen
could sure use more of SAM BUNNELL's pontifications ...
"Honor your Scholly" -- Maximillian, Jan. 31 2012
He's off lifting weights no doubt
something none of us here have ever done.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Then trying to find the correct yoga position
that will allow him to fellate himself since he has no time to find someone to do that for him.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
He's working out guys who aren't quite right in the head.
He’s very thorough.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
How does he work the head? Thoroughly?
Ewwwww
Football can go to hell. The Rangers aren't ready for football season and neither am I.
by WyoRanger on Feb 11, 2012 12:14 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Is there any way they sign Oswalt and keep Harrison?
Is there a chance that they sign him and Feliz is the odd man out in the rotation and moves back to the BP?
I’m still trying to work my head around why they would sign him….
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
"And when Josh leaves, The Window closes." JW 2-9-12
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Feb 11, 2012 10:38 AM CST reply actions
Picture this: Who was the 8th option for the rotation in Spring Training last year?
My mind just says throw ball throw hard and strike. - Marteen
he was higher than 8th right?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 11, 2012 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
I would have put Feliz above Bush last season....
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
"And when Josh leaves, The Window closes." JW 2-9-12
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Feb 11, 2012 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
My line of thought was that it was Ogando
At either route, we had a performace issue and two injuries out of the starters (three if you count Feldy, but that’s not really fair.)
Oswalt only looks bad if the best-case scenario develops.
My mind just says throw ball throw hard and strike. - Marteen
Sure he was
They gave him a jersey and everything. I have photos to prove as much much.
My mind just says throw ball throw hard and strike. - Marteen
You're imagining things
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Dave Bush?
I see the point about never having enough pitching but, like I’ve said before, Oswalt is a 1 year signing. Why sign someone who will not be a part of your future if it costs you someone who will be?
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
"And when Josh leaves, The Window closes." JW 2-9-12
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Feb 11, 2012 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
How is what? The part about costing someone who could be a part of your future?
I don’t want to sign Oswalt at the expense of Harrison…
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
"And when Josh leaves, The Window closes." JW 2-9-12
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Feb 11, 2012 10:49 AM CST up reply actions
Why do we have to lose Harrison if Oswalt is signed?
My mind just says throw ball throw hard and strike. - Marteen
That's why I was asking the question in my original post....
If they sign Oswalt, I see Harrison as the odd man out of the rotation and the options are to move him back to the BP or trade him…
On the otherhand, I guess Harrison could be the answer to their left handed relief pitcher question….
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
"And when Josh leaves, The Window closes." JW 2-9-12
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Feb 11, 2012 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
I'd rather see them trade him than move him to the pen.
Feels like such a waste.
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
Of course, If they were to sign Oswalt, I'd rather see them trade Lewis
but I don’t see that happening.
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
there's an option
they’ll likely both be gone next year
by studcrackers on Feb 11, 2012 4:46 PM CST up reply actions
So injuries don't happen at all to the 2012 Rangers starting rotation?
That’s awesome.
My mind just says throw ball throw hard and strike. - Marteen
It would be great, huh? Of course, not....
But they still have Ogando and Feldman if someone got injured….
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
"And when Josh leaves, The Window closes." JW 2-9-12
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Feb 11, 2012 11:00 AM CST up reply actions
You don't pay someone close to 10 Million
to be injury insurance… and if they do suffer injuries, there are players like Feldman, they could stretch out Ogando again depending on what the injury is, they could bring up Ramirez or Perez or make a move for someone DFA’d or make a minor trade to fill in.
It’s such a waste of resources, unless you have a trade in mind for a current starter, to sign Oswalt.
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
Sure.
Except Oswalt is very likely a better option than any of those in a year where it’s likely you’ll need every win possible.
Plus it’s entirely possible that Ray and Bob make an exception to sign Oswalt, given that he’s such a good Texas boy and Nolan and him are BFF’s. Ten million dollars to Bob Simpson is lunch money to us.
My mind just says throw ball throw hard and strike. - Marteen
And what do you do with every one if no one gets hurt in ST?
Who are your five in the rotation and what happens to everyone else?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I'm just going off the assumption that something bad will happen
Everyone else seems to be going off the assumption that nothing bad will happen.
Just guessing, but I think mine is the safer bet.
My mind just says throw ball throw hard and strike. - Marteen
That's fine.
What do you do if your bet is wrong?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
This is a good question
Explore the trade market, examine players with options spending time in RR (not a popular or easy decision to make, I know), explore limited use of a six-man rotation… lots of things that could be done.
My mind just says throw ball throw hard and strike. - Marteen
That's silly
So you pencil Oswalt into the rotation to begin the season, trade someone away to make room while Oswalt is likely the most fragile pitcher? What if/when he goes down?
Football can go to hell. The Rangers aren't ready for football season and neither am I.
by WyoRanger on Feb 11, 2012 12:22 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
x
Everyone else seems to be going off the assumption that nothing bad will happen.
I disagree. I don’t think everyone else is going off the assumption that nothing bad will happen. I know I’m not.
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 11, 2012 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
Then why does the assumption exist that signing Oswalt means you have to trade Harrison?
My mind just says throw ball throw hard and strike. - Marteen
Because there is no spot for him otherwise
The Rangers are already prepared for something bad to happen. We have Alexi Ogando and Scott Feldman as 2 guys who have proven in the past that they are very capable starters.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
moving him to the bullpen is minimizing his worth
both to the rangers this year and going forward and to his trade value this year and going forward.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 11, 2012 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
There's not even much of a spot for him in the bullpen
You’ve got 2 potential long guys in Ogando and Feldman for the role Harrison would fill in best for. The rest of the bullpen already has Nathan, Lowe, Adams, Tateyama, and until further notice, Koji. The only role for Harrison is as a LOOGY which is a tremendous waste.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
harrison is much better than both of those guys (as a SP)
in my opinion
i think they roll with 6 SP for a good bit of the year as they limit IP for both feliz and darvish
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 11, 2012 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
A lefty can be something other than a LOOGY as a reliever
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 11, 2012 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
He can
but what role is there in the bullpen for Harrison? He might not be an exclusive LOOGY if he was in the bullpen, but you wouldn’t have him ahead of your late inning guys and you’ve already got long relievers who can also be used in short inning spurts.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
which is a horrible allocation of pitching resources, correct?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 11, 2012 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
I think so
Football can go to hell. The Rangers aren't ready for football season and neither am I.
by WyoRanger on Feb 11, 2012 12:25 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Well, probably.
But not as bad as using as him as a LOOGY. In any event, I’m pretty confident one of Harrison, Holland, Feliz, or Ogando will be dealt if we sign Oswalt. And I’m still confident that we’ll be dealing Koji.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I don't have to
Its just the most reasonable allocation of resources.
You’ve already got two viable, proven major league starting pitchers available as your #6 and #7 starters in Ogando and Feldman.
You’ve got Neil Ramirez and Martin Perez, who you can reasonably expect to be able to come in and fill in without embarrassing themselves later this year, in the minors.
And despite that, you want to spend $8 million on Oswalt, because of a fear that you don’t have enough pitching depth?
That’s $8 million that you can’t spend on something else. Would you rather have, for example, Nomar Mazara and Ronald Guzman (who cost about $8 million combined to sign)? Or would you rather have one year of Oswalt, so that Matt Harrison can be a middle reliever?
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 11, 2012 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
You can use it on Cuban and Japanese players, right?
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Okay
That’s $8 million less you can spend on keeping Mike Napoli.
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 11, 2012 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
Then it is $8 million less you can spend on an Ian Kinsler extension
Or on your scouting budget. Or on under-the-table payments to buscones so that they’ll have the best Latin American players sign with Texas.
There are better ways to spend $8 million than on a pitcher who isn’t an upgrade over the guys in the rotation currently.
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 11, 2012 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
Oh I agree there are better ways to spend 8 million
Was just pointing out that we cant just throw that money into the LA budget like in years past
except you kind of can
Or on under-the-table payments to buscones so that they’ll have the best Latin American players sign with Texas.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 11, 2012 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
I think that kind of stuff is going to be the thing MLB starts cracking down on
They’ve already put in place the cap so I think the next step is to really start enforcing that kind of stuff.
The cap is easy to enforce
Trying to clean up the entire LA program is far from it.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
How?
Its not like MLB has any control over the buscones. The cap is easy to implement because the teams have to make it official how much money they’re spending on a player’s contract. There’s no easy way to crack down on the buscones and all the various academies that are in LA.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
the overall cap number includes guys signed after they are 16 right?
so if the rangers sign a 17 or 18 y/o from columbia in sept of this year ,he counts towards the limit — right?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 11, 2012 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
how do you crack down on it?
are you going to stop having team sponsored academies and instead have MLB front the money and ONLY have MLB academies in latin america?
what about in countries that do not have a ton of prospects (big money) come out of them — say a panama vs a DR or Venezuela?
it is literally not possible to happen.
you pay the buscone, buscone doesnt take him to any showcases, you sign the player for low budget because you are not bdiding against anyone else.
you literally cant crack down on it without an international draft or without sponsored MLB only academies and only letting you sign players from them.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 11, 2012 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
how do you enforce it?
serious question.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 11, 2012 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
Well
If everyone has the same amount of money to play with and guys start going to one team for considerably less than what others are offering then that raises flags.
MLB investigates and finds you paid that players buscone. It may not affect if you do it sparingly but if suddenly all that buscones players start signing for less money with one team I think they could start enforcing punishments.
Saying its impossible to enforce is crazy. I dont know enough about that industry to know exactly how it could be enforced but I guarantee you MLB has thought of ways to curtail it especially now given the seemingly even playing field teams are playing under
With the money being more equal
I’d expect players to take less to sign with teams with the better track records.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
depends
If a team goes all in for one of the top guys and loses and then can offer that kid 500K or 1 mil more than another I think they will choose the money.
do you even know how things work in LA?
the rangers offered significantly more to Ynoa than the A’s (4.25mm vs 5.2mm)
for example
at the top of the market, it isnt at all like yuo seem to think it is.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 11, 2012 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
hmm
If everyone has the same amount of money to play with and guys start going to one team for considerably less than what others are offering then that raises flags.
it isnt being handled by bidding, you sign the guy, he goes through the MLB’s system, the end. MLB doesnt really know what the other ppl offered, etc. and i can guarantee you that the player doesnt always sign the highest offer.
MLB investigates and finds you paid that players buscone. It may not affect if you do it sparingly but if suddenly all that buscones players start signing for less money with one team I think they could start enforcing punishments.
the teams are not paying these guys via check dude. how do you plan on investigating in the DR? VZ? panama?
if it was possible to enforce, why have they not done it yet? their response is to limit how much you can spend internationally.
and if you think the playing fields in latin america are anywhere near even, you are out of your mind.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 11, 2012 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
They are more even now than they were
You dont think if the Rangers start signing a ton of mid level talent to low money deals it will raise flags in MLB?
You dont think another team will start complaining and force a inquiry?
But im really not in the mood to deal with you right now so i’ll just leave it at that. You are right its impossible to enforce any kind of under the table payments to buscones.
MLB is just a bunch of idiots who have no clue whats going on down there and the Rangers should throw money at these buscones and we will sign a ton of talent because of this.
no one KNOWS if they are mid level talent
no onw KNOWS what everyone else is offering
no one TURNS other people in in LA because they do it themselves
do you think the rangers signed profar for low money? what about sardinas? payano? etc?
was their offer low or high? WHO KNOWS?
you need to step into reality here.
how do you stop buscones and under the table payments?
knowing what is going on doesnt mean they can stop it. what are they going to do? hire 5000 people to watch all of them in latin america?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 11, 2012 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
Its probably not
but that’s a large chunk of money that can be part of that re-signing. If it takes 70 million to keep Napoli, you’re talking about 11% of his contract going towards a pitcher you don’t need.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
You are assuming we have 8 million to spend to begin with
I think its more likely this would either be a 1 time allocation of funds or it would be taking from other areas of this years budget to make it happen.
I dont think not spending 8 million on Oswalt means you have that 8 million to go towards the 2014 salary of Napoli for instance
i think that both of those are bad ideas.
woudl you rather have the wiggle room to bring someone in via trade later on in the season? or give a guy a bonus who defects from cuba?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 11, 2012 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
well again is that Cuban player eligible to just throw money at or are they subject to the new rules?
I do think the “money for trade” is the best option to use the money though
under 23 = subject to new rules
over 23 = not
at least thats my understanding (correct me if im wrong someone!)
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 11, 2012 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
I dont think not spending 8 million on Oswalt means you have that 8 million to go towards the 2014 salary of Napoli for instance
Is this another one of those infamous transactions paid for straight out of Bob Simpson’s pockets?
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
If ownership is willing to kick in $8 million for Oswalt...
…but not for anything or anyone else, then that drops my confidence level in the ownership down a few notches.
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 11, 2012 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
It'd have me wondering why Josh Bell isn't in our system.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
What?
No it means that us having 8 million to sign Oswalt now doesn’t mean we have 8 million to go towards the 2014 salary of Napoli in a extension.
Oswalt could very easily be a “ownership decision” that gets taken care of by ownership. And as Adam said if thats the case it drops my confidence level in them.
It could be we make some one year adjustments to other areas of the budget to get the 8 million (or whatever left we need).
it could be that we have that 8 million set aside for midseason player acquisitions.
I'm sorry, but your first paragraph just doesn't make sense to me, assuming ownership isn't making this a special, one-time allocation of money outside the budget.
If we have 8MM to sign Oswalt now, that means we have 8MM to go towards the 2014 salary of Napoli, now. The rest is just bookkeeping.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
If its a 1 time allocation of funds
then its a 1 time allocation of funds that could be available to Napoli. Oswalt isn’t Darvish. There’s not a major exception that has to be made as far as payroll goes to bring him here.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
or kinsler
or anyone else
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 11, 2012 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
It's just lunch money...
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
I think that's the key
it isn’t just that Oswalt won’t make the rotation better. He very likely would simply by lowering the variance (if healthy). All of the Rangers options could be better than Oswalt, but thre is a good chance that one of them won’t be
All that said, any improvement Oswalt would give is probably marginal, particularly since we don’t know who it is that he’ll improve on. And they could use that money on something else – really anything else – and be better off. Use it to extend someone (cue bigsteve), use it to buy another team’s burdensome contract if it fills a hole and brings in a prospect too (money can let you do fun things)
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
10M isn't lunch money
you don’t become that rich by not being prudent with your money, and making wise investments.
Is Oswalt really a better option than Ogando to be worth 10M?
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
if they move koji they almost have to put ogando in the pen
and im ok w/ that
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 11, 2012 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
i never watned to get rid of him
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 11, 2012 11:27 AM CST up reply actions
it really doesn't make much sense to get rid of Koji
for a few million when it will likely make our team weaker and less flexible which will be important in the long baseball season
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
that is my problem
i dont think you can replace him in the bullpen with anyone other than ogando and i dont think ogando is as good as koji in the pen
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 11, 2012 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
he very well might be
koji as a reliever:
11.56 k/9
1.16 bb/9
10.00 k/bb
0.82 WHIP
2.77 FIP
2.48 xFIP
ogando as a reliever:
8.45 k/9
3.30 bb/9
2.56 k/bb
1.12 WHIP
2.96 FIP
3.68 xFIP (very low hr/9)
but next year specifically, i would prefer to have koji (who is also better vs LHP than ogando)
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 11, 2012 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
Ogando needs to be able to get LHBs out before we draw that conclusion.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
he would need to get better to be compared to Uehara
as Uehara has LOOGY type #s against lefties. It’s hard to hold a bar that high for any righty reliever. and don’t get me started on blanket statements about how Ogando has this ‘perception’ that he can’t get lefties out. He can, but he isn’t a LOOGY type lefty killer.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
I don't think it makes sense that way either
if it makes the team weaker. He’s under contract here. He’ll have to deal with it.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
I don't have a problem respecting a trade request.
Especially with a player at his age. I’d rather have players here who are all in.
It makes sense if the team doesn't expect Koji to pitch better than last year
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
this is the only way it may make sense
but I would think the team would take his career success into account before making a judgment on such a small sample
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
im sure they are
But they also have more to go on than just his stats and what he did on the field.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Another point to your injury comment...
If Oswalt were to be signed, of the starters who would be the biggest red flag as an injury concern?
Oswalt….
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
"And when Josh leaves, The Window closes." JW 2-9-12
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Feb 11, 2012 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
not really
Colby still didn’t miss time. Oswalt is coming off back problems where he has consistently missed time
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
less so than Oswalt
especially at that price
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
and I'd still rather have Ogando in there
than Oswalt if that was my choice
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
I wish we would stop with this "X million dollars is lunch money to our new owners"
These guys didn’t become the guys they are by throwing money away at mediocre investments.
Yes they are rich but they are also smart as is our front office. 10 million for Oswalt if he was replacing a Dave Bush or Sidney Ponson is one thing. 8-10 million to replace a Matt Harrison is another thing completely.
The only way I see us signing Oswalt is if hes still available in spring training and a injury does occur that will keep one of our starters out for 6 weeks or so. For instance if we have a guy pull a Tommy Hunter and pull a groin in the last week of spring this year and Oswalt is still unsigned I think we jump on him and plug him into the rotation. Maybe Feldman takes the first start or two while he works himself into shape but then Oswalt takes it from there.
Exactly.
If Oswalt wants to take a minor league contract like Dave Bush did last year, fine. He only gets paid if he makes the ML squad and he can have immediate FA if he doesn’t.
No need to commit money like that to an insurance option.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
There is no way they put off trying Feliz in the rotation another season
So there would have to be an odd man out between Holland and Harrison and for whatever reason, it seems like Harrison would be that guy.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
You can never say never
but Feliz is probably as close as you can get. I can’t see any way they trade him this year.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Fuuuuuck no
Serious overpay friend.
Hey, you coming to the TG?
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
Not in the least
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Not in a million years
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Feliz doesn't have the mindset to be in the bullpen ever again.
heh
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, jonthefon, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
And then there's this........
"He wanted to go to Texas. That’s not gonna happen. He wanted to go back to Philadelphia. That’s not gonna happen. He had some interest in the Reds. That doesn’t seem like it’s going to happen. So his choices still come down to, I think, going to Boston, where they have a clear need but he doesn’t seem to want to play, and going to St. Louis, where all his friends say he would love to be. But to do that, he has to do it on their terms."
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
"And when Josh leaves, The Window closes." JW 2-9-12
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Feb 11, 2012 11:06 AM CST reply actions
Weird
When you click on “Saturday AM things” in the blue section underneath the Fanposts it takes you to the Jan 28th Am thread not todays.
Then there's this piece of uncomfortable TV
This is Holland doing the weather with Precipitation Pete.
by robert_d_wilfong on Feb 11, 2012 12:14 PM CST reply actions
Man. I wish Holland would just disappear for a while.
He’s getting annoying. He did a song on Ben and Skin that make me change the station.
HNNNNNNGGGGG
I WISH THIS SONG WAS LOUDER!
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
EG doesn't know. Any interest?
CBSSports.com’s Jon Heyman confirms Edgar Renteria intends to return for his 17th major league season.
Let's sign him and let him play SS
Elvis can be a utility infielder. Can’t have too much depth, right?
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 11, 2012 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
is he an above avg defender anymore (not per the metrics i have seen fwiw)
and isnt going to hit a ton
or are you talking via NRI?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 11, 2012 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
i am 1000% ok with a NRI
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 11, 2012 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
Will he sign a 1/1-2 and be our UIF?
If so, then I’m interested.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
My first thought as well.
Bastard.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
from newberg/fraley
Fraley notes that veteran infielder Melvin Mora told the Venezuelan newspaper El Universal that he declined an offer from the Rangers to come to camp to compete for a bench job. Mora, who had been released by Arizona in June and who talked about retiring in December, is open to an opportunity with a club that’s closer to his Baltimore home.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 11, 2012 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I posted this last week per rotoworld
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
:(
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 11, 2012 1:11 PM CST up reply actions
im prob gona get blasted..but since Josh, Cruz and Ian
all have history of injuries and putting full consistent seasons together..why is there a wave goodbye to Josh and prob Cruz when their current contracts runout but Ian is gona be about the same age and the same history but needs to be signed to what is gona be overpriced for a 2b?..my question really, why is he given the pass?
It's harder to find middle infielders
With above average defense and Ian’s offensive capabilities than it is to find a corner outfielder.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
This is the correct answer.
Positional scarcity, pure and simple.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
best short answer is this one
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 11, 2012 1:05 PM CST up reply actions
And the reason I think you are perceiving Ian to be getting a pass is this.
A) Hamilton’s contract is up at the end of the year. From what it sounds extending him would be by far the biggest financial commitment of the three. Hamilton has already stated he will maximize his value through FA. He’s the most obvious candidate to move on.
B) Kinsler’s offense relative to his position is significantly more valuable than Cruz’. Kinsler is an above average defender to boot. Kinsler is a better player than Cruz in both facets of the game. Lastly, it is much more difficult to find a player of Kinsler’s talents than it is to find one of Cruz’.
Glad to read this, I had hoped they offered
According to Bowden, the Rangers, Angels, and Giants also had offers on the table for Ayala before he agreed to terms with Baltimore.
Seems like a cheap risk.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
A major league deal?
I’m not sure why we’d sign him to a major league deal, given the number of relievers already in place.
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 11, 2012 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
I would assume it was an NRI, which is why he chose Balmer
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
Depends on what your scouts think about Joe Nathan.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
totally depends on this
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 11, 2012 1:26 PM CST up reply actions
that would be a good deal
if he is pre-TJ surgery good. That would be a contract well spent, rather than a misallocation of resources.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
I don't agree.
In thinking about the marginal value of a win for this team, I think a great Joe Nathan means this team wins at most an extra 2 games this year and next. I’d rather use the money on extensions for the core teamers. $14.75MM is a lot of money.
Why do you think a great Joe Nathan means the team only wins an extra two games?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I don't see a real need.
I think Mike Adams and Ogando/Feliz (or both) would have been well above average late inning reliever options. I think this team wins 92-98 games with or without Nathan. Nathan might pump the total up a little by taking the pressure off those other guys but I don’t think it will make much difference. This machine is already made to win a lot of games.
I don't think Feliz was ever a late inning option for 2012.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Why?
Jon Daniels and the rest of the organization has been very very explicit that they want him to be a starter.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I think the door isn't closed.
I know they want him to be a starter. I know they expect him to be a starter. I just don’t think the door is closed on him moving back, especially mid-season. The team is going to go with a 5 man rotation for the majority of the season, especially later on. Eventually someone is going to have to go to the bully and I think Feliz is a realistic option for that move.
I do think the chances are fewer than 20% that Feliz ends up back in the bully.
x
The team is going to go with a 5 man rotation for the majority of the season, especially later on. Eventually someone is going to have to go to the bully and I think Feliz is a realistic option for that move.
Are you assuming Ogando doesn’t go to the pen?
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 11, 2012 5:23 PM CST up reply actions
Absolutely not.
I think it is more likely that Ogando goes to the pen. I just don’t think it is a given that Ogando goes instead of Feliz.
I think there is a much greater than 20% chance that Ogando ends up back in the pen. I also think there is a remote but non-zero chance that both guys end up back in the pen.
Round logix is circular
Sexi has always been the favorite to go back to the pen. Meanwhile (behind this innocent looking bookstore), the club has already said that they would control Feliz’s innings. So yes, you may see both in the BP at some point, one early in the season, and one possiblly mid-late in the season.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
I mean that Ogando *is* going to the pen
Putting odds on it seems kind of silly to me.
To your Feliz point: I am willing to concede/agree that he may pitch some innings from the BP given the club’s stated desire to limit his innings.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
I suppose I should have clarified.
I mean moving back like Feliz did last year. Not switching back and forth.
And getting back to the marginal value of a win.
How many extra wins do you think Nathan brings the Rangers in 2012 if he puts up a 2009 line. 2.10 ERA in 70 games. 0.92 WHIP. 47 saves.
How many fewer wins do the Rangers, as they were constructed without Joe Nathan, accomplish?
I don't know.
I don’t think we do a very good job of understanding the actual impact to W-L record for high leverage, late inning pitchers.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Fans.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
No... I include the SABR community in the "fans" section.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Far too much noise to really know the actual win-to-win value of a reliever
I think much of the time luck plays a much larger role. And that is part of the reason I think Joe Nathan isn’t realistically worth more than 2 wins.
Obviously I have no proof of this, just my own opinions based on how I see the game.
Well...
I don’t think we do a very good job of understanding the actual impact to W-L record for high leverage, late inning pitchers.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I think we undervalue.
I think we have a pretty good grasp on the runs value of players… which is good for pythag type evaluations.
But I think an actual W-L record can be impacted more than WAR allows for relievers because of the leverage impact.
I think teams pay pay relievers at a higher WAR/$ than other positions… and instead of assuming all teams are stupidly overpaying for relievers I wonder if that may indicate how they value them (and not necessarily incorrectly).
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I think the biggest problem isn't the $/WAR being paid to relievers, as a function of win value
The problem manifests across a different dimension—with the assumption of closer scarcity. The problem with paying Papelbon 4/50 isn’t that closers shouldn’t be paid that kind of money; it’s that Ryan Madson could do the same job (or close to it) for pennies on the dollar.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I've been wanting to do some research on this over at WFAA
Wanna go family style on this at some point?
My mind just says throw ball throw hard and strike. - Marteen
We also jumped out there and got the guy we wanted. Maybe we overpaid a little bit, but we had to move quick.
Set our offseason plan in motion.
Yes.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
nO, too cold
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
This winter has been great this year!
It’s been sitting around 30 most of the winter. Who needs a coat!
So, Mike Marshal runs PitchFX at RBiA
Our list of insiders groweth.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
who?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 11, 2012 1:32 PM CST up reply actions
He is a p/t Ticket guy who used to post here
Not sure if he does anymore.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
Bleah, do not remember
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
Hehz
DSzymborski Dan Szymborski
The lowest win total in a million years was Houston having a 29-133 season.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
w00t
And in a million years, the best season was a Texas Ranger 124-38. Hey, it’s a million years, after all.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
What do you think the true win ceiling is for this team?
110? 115?
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Let's imagine you're getting something like +200 on an Over 105.5, +300 on an Over 108.5, and so on and so forth.
How long of a bet would you be willing to make?
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I'm not a betting man.
Those terms aren’t meaningful to me.
I would say they have a less than 1% chance of winning greater than 103 games.
Oh, wow. Ok.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I still think the Rangers are great.
I just think it is tough to win 100+ games in today’s environment. The AL has a bunch of really, really good teams including one opponent in the West. This isn’t a slight on the Rangers.
I hear ya.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I'd have to get somethign like +400 for 105.5
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
Yes. I agree.
Just throwing the numbers out there.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I am not good at this
I * expect * them to win about 95 or so.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
x
Dan Szymborski @DSzymborski
A million years wasn’t enough for to get the 2012 ZiPS Astros a 100-win season, they topped out at 94.
Would the 2012 Astros winning 94 games be the most shocking win total you've ever seen?
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
2001 Mariners are still more surprising
That roster had no business winning that many games. Unfathomable.
didn't that team have Olerud, Edgar, Boone, Ichiro, Buhner
among others. They were a pretty damn good team. Still you have to have a bit of luck go your way to win that many games.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
They had just lost A-Rod and Ichiro was a rookie.
Bret Boone was in his first year as a Mariner and was coming off an awful season. The rotation was Garcia, Sele, Moyer, Paul Abbott, and John Halama. Them winning 116 games that year is one of the great mysteries.
I can think of 15 AL teams in the past 10 years that I think were better on paper than those Mariners.
sometimes losing a player like Arod helps
more than you’d think, which is odd because he was great here but even we improved right after he left, and had a shot at the end of the season in ‘04 to win the West. We fell a bit short that season, although I still love David Dellucci for that double. I’m not saying it was because Arod left but it is interesting how the season after he left both the Mariners and Rangers that those teams more than exceeded their expectations.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
and we have the Showalter theory
that after he leaves a team soon goes to the world series. Baltimore has a bright future
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
I think the current Rangers are better at all three facets of the game than that 2001 Mariners team.
At least on paper. And I don’t think the Rangers will win more than 100 games.
So Adonis Garcia
Cuban defector, just granted free agency, plays 2nd, third, short, and CF.
He sounds interesting from the reports I’ve seen in Spanish, strong defensively, good hit tool, although I don’t know how well he’ll translate over.
I don’t know if anyone’s looking at him as a starter, but if he’s looking at a bench role, I wouldn’t mind the Rangers taking a look.
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
Over 23, I assume?
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
Yoenis offered $40mil 6 yr deal according to sources
By the Fish.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
Excuse me?
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
It was just a joke, people.
Just snarking a little at the love this board has for Leonys Martin. Nothing more.
Don't forget about all the guys who rate prospects for a living who like him.
It’s not universal… but plenty of guys think he’ll be a quality ML player.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I'd rate myself as more down than most LSBers, but less down than KLaw.
"The Rangers system just happens to be stupid with depth." - Jason Parks, 7/14/11
2011-07-25 17:44:05 - benjihana: Ahh my backdoor!!!
"It appears I made a mistake. I did not know what pegged meant" - Schultzy, 11/13/11
Depends
I think plenty of people here joke around with a lot of hype for players, but if you were to ask for a legitimate opinion on a player like Martin, it wouldn’t be something ridiculous. The guy is very talented, whether he is actual royalty or not.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Are you asking me if people on LSB are fans of the Rangers?
And act like fans?
Yes. People here can act like fans.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
If you agree that LSB has a way of going overboard...
or acting like fans as you are putting it, why is it wrong of me to point out that LSB might be guilty of overhyping Martin?
Where did I say it was wrong?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
And McCutcheon
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
That's where I'm at
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
I think he needs to prove it.
He needs to prove that his hit tool will play in the bigs. That and Cubans are well known for not having a patient approach. Obviously not everyone is the same. We just need more data.
Over 1000 people at the Josh book signing per Fox 4
Also his wife tweeted earlier that she would not attend due to an urgent family matter.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
hmm
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
Stop texting me!
No, do.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
Some friends went and didn't get a signature
"A lot of people may not know this, but I happen to be quite famous." - Sam "MayDay" Malone
Really?
I read that he stayed for 3 hours.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
That's what they said
1000 people in 3 hours would be hard to get through.
"A lot of people may not know this, but I happen to be quite famous." - Sam "MayDay" Malone
Do what Evan?
Since there was some level of discussion on Oswalt here, my point is this: Oswalt is like the company match on a 401k. He’s free currency.
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Feb 11, 2012 3:25 PM CST reply actions
Evan says Napoli is asking
for less than Victor Martinez’s 4/52M.
That shocks me. It really does.
"By MLB.TV, we can see J. Hamilton's homer, M. Young's clutch, and N. Feliz's explosive. All about Rangers things can be our interest" --South Korean Rangers fan
Sports Producer, WFAA-TV/WFAA.com. Lover of feedback.
Where is Evan saying that?
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Nevermind found it.
If that’s the case than I’m quite convinced the Rangers will end up keeping him long term.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Eh.
You get nervous about this stuff all the time.
When they negotiated before Fielder was still in play and Hamilton was probably a higher priority.
And it’s still a fair amount of risk for a guy coming off a career year for his 30+ seasons.
I think it’ll get done… plenty of time still.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
and I believe VM was a FA with a longer track record then Napoli
by RangerMad on Feb 11, 2012 4:42 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
VMart didn't show near the ceiling Napoli has either
VMart was good for a 850-880 OPS each season which is great and especially for as long as he did it but Napoli has shown twice now that if he is locked in he can put up monster years.
Hey, let's pay everybody based on career years!
/notreally
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
Now we're talking about a 30-year old guy's ceiling?
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Napoli has shown twice he can put up monster years?
One of those “monster years” was 78 games, the other was 113 games.
Let’s not act like Victor Martinez has never had a great 78 game stretch.
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 11, 2012 6:27 PM CST up reply actions
His best three month stretch in his career
Stretch G PA AVG OBP SLG OPS Jul-Sep 2005 79 335 .359 .429 .539 .968
He had 9 different three month stretches of an OPS over .900 in his career.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
why the fuck isnt that a done deal then?
"God dammit TAG I swear to God if you keep this "It was a close play" shit up all night I will send you cookies made from my own shit" -River Fenix 8/26/2011
"this is a big reason I decided not to convert to Islam now if it was 72 skanks? Different story, my friend" Bob Loblaw 9/2/2011
by I am Neftali Feliz on Feb 11, 2012 3:47 PM CST up reply actions
Oh, this is hilarious. Just hilarious.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
You think it is total BS?
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
He's referencing Josey's prediction that Napoli will get far more than V-Mart.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I almost wish the Napoli contract prediction had more time to marinate...
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Oh, I ignore him.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
by Rodney on Feb 11, 2012 4:05 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
We shouldn't care about Josey
We really shouldn’t.
by Heebs on Feb 11, 2012 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Same here
If that’s the case, I hope that they announce a nice extension before his arbitration hearing instead of just signing him to a contract through this year.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Uh, sign him.
Now.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
(I don't believe that for one second, btw)
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
Good luck with all that
ESPN’s Buster Olney suggests that change could be imminent between the Angels and Vernon Wells.
/muserslaugh
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
Either cut or traded.
Which would be interesting either way.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Cutting him would be hilarious
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Well, it can't be traded.
Every GM in the league laughed at that move.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
Actually...
Olney didn’t say that a change was imminent for Wells.
He came up with a list of several names that need to do better or a change could be imminent. So sounds much more speculative than actual insider info.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
x
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
dammit Rodney.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
I DON'T HAVE INSIDER!
I was merely parroting rotoworld.
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
Rangers and Napoli
agree on $9.3M deal per MLBTR
by RangerMad on Feb 11, 2012 6:38 PM CST via Android app reply actions 1 recs
Lower than the mid point.
Mid point was like 9.9
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Wreck it!
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
"And what we have to ask is, why is it that God has admonished us to Haiti?"
/WhiteZombievisavisJimJones
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
you drank all day yesterday, didn't you?
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
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