Valentine's Day Rangers Update
by ghostofErikThompson on Feb 14, 2012 8:01 AM CST
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It's fairly sparse out there today as far as news items go. I did get a Yu Darvish jersey in the mail yesterday, however. I'm feeling the love and am ready for baseball.
David Schoenfield has written an AL West positional ranking. The Rangers come out in front in nine of the 17 categories and topped the Angels by a score of 56 points to 53 points in the final tally. Read it and debate why the Rangers fall below the Angels in "Intangibles" or laugh about how Franklin Gutierrez is considered worse than Julio Borbon and company.
Jon Machota writes about Jurickson Profar's No. 4 ranking in Kevin Goldstein's Baseball Prospectus Top 101 Prospects list. Machota also has a quote from Profar where he says he'd move positions if he needed to. But, of course, that's not going to be an issue for a long while yet.
Bryan Dolgin interviewed new senior director of player development Tim Purpura at ESPN Dallas. Purpura talks about the possibility of signing Roy Oswalt, Jon Daniels as a boss, and Martin Perez.
Gerry Fraley writes about Cincinnati Reds GM Walt Jocketty telling the Cincinnati Enquirer that he believes Roy Oswalt is still waiting for the Rangers to clear money so they can sign him.
David Moore and Rick Gosselin were on SportsDay On Air to discuss the possibility of signing Mike Napoli to an extension.
Here's Fraley attempting to decipher a Koji Uehara blog post on Uehara's website. Uehara mentions a mystery elbow issue from last season and is apparently "lonely" in America.
Finally, Richard Durrett continues his positional outlook series by examining the back of the Rangers' bullpen.
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What is Gosselin doing?
He wrote a hockey column yesterday. Now baseball? I thought he just did football.
Defending Big D Check it out
Twitter
"You guys are talking about living forever like it’s a real thing, but I bust out a man shoving his head into a vagina, and it’s srs time?"
--iorange555 8/23/2011
wow that pic is amazing.
soo full of win.
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Intangibles.....heh....
Yeah, those last two AL Championships are far outweighed by the Angels overpaying for Pujols….
And Colby is the #4 starter?
mmmmmmkay……
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
"And when Josh leaves, The Window closes." JW 2-9-12
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Feb 14, 2012 8:21 AM CST reply actions
The Musers did a whole segment on this fucking article this morning
regurgitated cat shit is almost worst than the original smell
pretty bad
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Yeah, I heard that....
I don’t recall why he said it but George saying “and that’s what makes signing Oswalt all the more important” sent me over the edge….
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
"And when Josh leaves, The Window closes." JW 2-9-12
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Feb 14, 2012 8:27 AM CST up reply actions
It was because the author thinks Ervin Santa being better than Colby Lewis means the Rangers should sign Roy Oswalt.
Or that’s how George interpreted it anyway.
Realistically, Darvish Holland and Harrison should all be in front of Ding Dong
Unless you’re just talking about actual physical order. He’ll obviously be the opening day starter if he’s healthy.
There's a fire in the city of pictures
Leaving nothing but ashes below
if he gives us 200 innings
and a FIP of around 4.0 (between his 3.55 and 4.54 the last 2 years) i will be very, very happy.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 14, 2012 9:07 AM CST up reply actions
So, per Walt Jocketty, Oswalt is waiting for the Rangers to clear money before signing him?
Jocketty told the paper that the team hasn’t had any contact with Oswalt’s reps for the last week. “I think he’s waiting for Texas to clear money,” Jocketty said, the paper reports.
It may be more that the Rangers are waiting for Oswalt’s price to come down…..
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
"And when Josh leaves, The Window closes." JW 2-9-12
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Feb 14, 2012 8:24 AM CST reply actions
I'm all about improving this team, but I'm not sure this move will do that
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Nope...
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
"And when Josh leaves, The Window closes." JW 2-9-12
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Feb 14, 2012 8:27 AM CST up reply actions
but INTANGIBLES !
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
It's the only argument he needs, shock!!!
"I never argue with people who say that baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn’t. And that’s what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
"And when Josh leaves, The Window closes." JW 2-9-12
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Feb 14, 2012 8:35 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
What if there's a trade of Harrison for young talent coming back if we sign Oswalt?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Depends on who that young talent is
and how controllable they are.
Expectation is the root of all heartache. — William Shakespeare
by TheDutchOven on Feb 14, 2012 8:33 AM CST up reply actions
Exactly but that's why I wouldn't be quick to judge an Oswalt signing immediately.
This Thing needs an infusion of young talent.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
if they do sign Oswalt and trade Harrison then I really have no problem w/ it
if they keep Harrison and oswalt…..We’d be wasting a young pitcher.
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
I'm not wholly against the notion of trading Harrison or any other pitcher.
In the end it will depend on what the return is before I feel one way or another about that trade. I think the Rangers have done a good job recently of not overpaying in trades, all aspects of a trade considered.
Expectation is the root of all heartache. — William Shakespeare
by TheDutchOven on Feb 14, 2012 8:44 AM CST up reply actions
Oswalt? Young Talent?
How about young and proven like Harry vs. a has been like Oswalt and potential never-will-bes that Harry might pull down in a trade?
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
are we sure that Harry can do what he did last year again?
btw I like Harry.
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
I actually think so.
But even with a bit of regression, I think he has a better chance of being serviceable over the next 3-4 years than Oswalt. Back issues keep coming back.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
Oswalt would only be for 1 year anyway
I think Harry can do it as well. but a decent trade wouldn’t be out of the question either.
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
No. Not at all.
Depends on the return on trade. For me, it doesn’t make sense to trade a young starter who is entering his prime years for one year of an older starter with serious injury concerns. However, Harry’s value could be at its peak. If he can be flipped for valuable farm tools, then so be it.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
if he pitches to his xfip (3.85) i will be happy
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 14, 2012 9:09 AM CST up reply actions
You have to give to get....I'm not advocating trading Harry either...I like young
left-handed pitchers but the FO may feel like he hit his ceiling last year and they want to trade him when his value is high. Pitching is a position of depth in this organization but what we don’t have is a young stud OF.
The FO may feel like Oswalt can do what Harry can do this year and that it’s worth the gamble to trade him to bring in young talent.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
everybody assumes Harry is the outcast..I dont think the team
is sold on Feliz being a great starter
But they've burned the boats...signed Nathan to be the closer.
What if Feliz STBF as a starter?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Feb 14, 2012 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
exactly..after he imploded in game 6
the first order of business was sign Nathan,.tell him he has to now be starter..and his numbers are trending down and he wasnt all that as a starter in the minors..i still think by FO actions..they are making a plan B for him
x
he wasnt all that as a starter in the minors
You mean when he was the #10 prospect in baseball before the 2009 season, per BA?
Or when he was the #9 prospect in baseball, again per BA, before the 2010 season?
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 14, 2012 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
Was he considered a starter before the 2010 season (after he had closed for the Rangers the last two months of 2009)?
I also think it’s foolish to assume any pitcher (who has never done it before) who pitches half their games in Texas is going to be successful.
I have no idea how Feliz (or Darvish) is going to do this season and anybody who tells you they do know, is full of shit.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Feb 14, 2012 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
Yep
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Feb 14, 2012 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
He wasn't rated that highly because BA thought he was that special as a closer
Part of his high rating was the fastball allowing him to at least be a great reliever, but the reasoning behind his high ranking was always that he would transition to the rotation at some point and he would be that good.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
watching him last year
what did you see that makes you think he is gona be good starter?..CJ had several pitches..Ogando had fb and deadly slider..Feliz just wasnt that impressive to me last year..and his numbers are trending down..i hope he does develop a consistent slider or changeup..but i think thats what the minors are for
Can we stop referring to Ogando's slider as "deadly"?
It was very slightly above league average.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I should clarify. Ogando's slider is an above-average pitch against RHBs and ineffective against LHBs
I don’t know what Feliz has to do with this.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
my point had been in the transition
from reliever to starter..Cj had several pitches and Ogando had a solid 2..Feliz right now has 1 solid and 1 well below avg
And I was making a very limited point about Ogando's slider against LHBs
In any case, I’m not especially bullish on Feliz this year. And I don’t know anyone here who really is.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
You only need one good pitch to be decent as a starter in the Majors
And Feliz has one amazing pitch. The slider needs work, but its shown a lot of promise in the past and I think its something that will get much better with repetition. The change-up is inherently going to be a good pitch from Feliz as long as he isn’t tipping it and can throw it near the strike zone.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
agreed
in fact, his slider and change up are that much more effective because he doesn’t need to throw them that often. He can be like a David Price and throw 80% fastballs and still be effective.
Why don't you have a nice big cup of shut the fuck up? - Lisa W 3/4/2011
He didn't close for the Rangers in 2009
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 14, 2012 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
He saved two games and pitched 31 innings in 20 appearances and didn't start a single game.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Feb 14, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
So everyone that pitches in relief
is the closer? Frankie Frank was the 2009 closer.
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Dear Rangers, Make me forget about 2010.......
by matthewbschultz83 on Feb 14, 2012 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
No...Frank Frank was hurt quite a bit that year
and CJ was ineffective when pitching back to back so they needed somebody else who could do it.
Yeah, Feliz was primarily a set-up man but he also closed.
He sure as fuck wasn’t a starter.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Feb 14, 2012 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
He finished 3 of 20 games that year
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Dear Rangers, Make me forget about 2010.......
by matthewbschultz83 on Feb 14, 2012 1:06 PM CST up reply actions
How many did he start for the Rangers?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
When did I say he was a starter?
You said he was a closer. Remember?
Was he considered a starter before the 2010 season (after he had closed for the Rangers the last two months of 2009)?
He was never a closer is all I’m saying.
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Dear Rangers, Make me forget about 2010.......
by matthewbschultz83 on Feb 14, 2012 1:18 PM CST up reply actions
You're really devastated by this?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Torn to shreads.
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Dear Rangers, Make me forget about 2010.......
by matthewbschultz83 on Feb 14, 2012 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
Will it make you feel better if I say
Feliz was not used primarily as a closer and was generally used in the 7th-8th inning (but also closed some games)?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Also
I don’t think I’ve encountered anyone who has said that they know how Feliz or Darvish is going to do in 2012.
If you find someone, let me know.
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 14, 2012 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
You think JD invested $ 110 million in Darvish without thinking
he’s going to be worth every penny of it beginning in 2012?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Feb 14, 2012 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
x
said that they know
JD invested $ 110 million in Darvish without thinking
Does thinking = knowing in your world?
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Dear Rangers, Make me forget about 2010.......
by matthewbschultz83 on Feb 14, 2012 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
At $ 110 million...you better know.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
by Josey Wales on Feb 14, 2012 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
So at 5/130
for Josh you better what….? Hope he stays healthy?
Or does crossing the $110 million threshold mean you don’t have to know anymore?
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Dear Rangers, Make me forget about 2010.......
by matthewbschultz83 on Feb 14, 2012 1:08 PM CST up reply actions
Josh is well worth it if healthy and sober...just check his track record of success in The Show.
Throwing $ 110 million at Yu Darvish is much more of a monster gamble.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Doesn't Josh's
track record show one of injury?
If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one pitcher to pitch a game to save my life.... I'd pick 1999 Rick Helling.
Dear Rangers, Make me forget about 2010.......
by matthewbschultz83 on Feb 14, 2012 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
Sure.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
im willing to bet right now
that Darvish is worth more than Hamilton over the next five years
Go Rice Owls!
Would be a Matt Harrison fan, but I only like superstars
by JBImaknee on Feb 14, 2012 3:24 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
crickets
As much as I love Josh and everything he’s meant to the Rangers for the last 4 years, I think that’s a pretty safe bet.
Now, would you bet that Darvish will be worth more than CJ over the next 5 years? That’s a little closer in my opinion.
Well
Considering how heavily the Rangers have scouted Darvish, I’d say they have a damn good idea of what he can and can’t do.
"Those cocksuckers asking me if I thought we were gonna go up there and try to work his fuckin’ pitch count ‘cause he’s on three fuckin’ days rest…you know what I told those cocksuckers? He pitch ball, ball cross plate, we gonna knock the shit out of it."
- Wash
If you have to "know" what you're getting at that price
Then you’re never going to give $110 million to any player ever.
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 14, 2012 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
Is this the teflon loophole of nobody ever truly
knowing what the future holds being unveiled?
Investing $ 110 million on …oh say, Kershaw is much different than investing it in Darvish.
I’d feel great if Kershaw was getting that money because I know he’s been successful in The Show.
You seem to feel pretty good about Darvish as well…giving him the fantasy rec over all other Rangers pitchers.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Don't become the '82 Milwaukee Brewers."
"You want false modesty? F that."
Of course Kershaw is safer than Darvish
Kershaw would also get more than $110 mil if he was on the market.
x2 and easily.
Best Minor League System in baseball, Best Overseas scouting in baseball, Best Front Office in baseball, and, of course, the Moneypenis™ Jorge C 1/28/12
so
the Angels committed $270 million without knowing what they’re gonna get next year from Albert Pujols. and the Tigers commited $210 million without knowing what they’re gonna get from Prince Fielder.
Every free agent signing is like that. you balance the risk with what you think will happen.
Why don't you have a nice big cup of shut the fuck up? - Lisa W 3/4/2011
To prospect people
he has always been considered a starter. Daniels has always felt that way, and he was only the Closer last year because Daniels was unable to find a replacement in spring training. The first order of business this offseason was to sign a closer so Feliz didn’t have to close next year.
Why don't you have a nice big cup of shut the fuck up? - Lisa W 3/4/2011
well
first off, as the number 5 starter he doesn’t exactly have to be a cy young candidate. but if he’s clearly imploding, we have backup. Alexi Ogando, Scott Feldman, or reach down to get a youngster like Niel Ramirez or <* gasp *> Martin Perez.
Why don't you have a nice big cup of shut the fuck up? - Lisa W 3/4/2011
young as in
Michael Young? or young as in under 25 young.
How many 2 time AL champion teams can boast 5 players aged 25 or under between their starting lineup, rotation, and closer.
Why don't you have a nice big cup of shut the fuck up? - Lisa W 3/4/2011
and how expensive oswalt is
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 14, 2012 9:08 AM CST up reply actions
Depends on what the young talent is.
If it’s say Domonic Brown, break out the party kazoos.
If it’s somebody like Adam Jones, that’s about as lateral as moves get.
There's a fire in the city of pictures
Leaving nothing but ashes below
How about
Harrison for Domonic Brown and Koji for Adam Jones!
"I wish I could tell you that TRangers fought the good fight, and the 2 strangers let him be. I wish I could tell you that - but Beaumont is no fairy-tale world." - bking
No
Adam Jones sucks.
Can’t play CF worth a shit, and doesn’t have the bat for COF.
There's a fire in the city of pictures
Leaving nothing but ashes below
I'd do that deal in a heartbeat
Jones’ bat wouldn’t be great at a COF spot, but it would be better than Murphy’s most likely and you don’t have such drastic platoon splits so you’re not having an automatic out in the lineup if he has to start against a lefty. So even if Jones was just a glorified 4th OF, I think that has much more value to this team than Koji would for this team. And for me, that is still true even if you assume Koji is much better than he was in Texas last season.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
jones would be starting on this team in CF
adam jones is a better player than gentry
…and i am a gentry fan.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 14, 2012 9:12 AM CST up reply actions
I'd be willing to bet that Gentry puts up more WAR than Jones over the same number of games this year.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
how much do you want to bet?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 14, 2012 9:19 AM CST up reply actions
barring injuries*
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 14, 2012 9:19 AM CST up reply actions
We can do a signature bet.
I suggest we hold off to see who opens the season in CF though. Or we could do a bet based on WAR/PA.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
heh
lets bring it up closer to season then haha
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 14, 2012 9:24 AM CST up reply actions
Easiest bet to win in history
Good job!
"I wish I could tell you that TRangers fought the good fight, and the 2 strangers let him be. I wish I could tell you that - but Beaumont is no fairy-tale world." - bking
You should probably compare the 2011 seasons for each player.
Outside of his ISO, I’m not sure what there is to like about Adam Jones as our everyday CF.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
sorry
i do not think that gentry is a .270 BA/.330 OBP hitter. if he is, he is the starter all year here and will be a huge addition to the lineup
now do i think he is a 69 OPS+ guy (ZiPS projection) – probably not
is he a 108 wRC+ guy? no no no.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 14, 2012 9:34 AM CST up reply actions
Where do you think he needs to be to justify running him out there every day?
It’s tough for me to figure given the year-to-year fluctuations in defensive metrics.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
oh man, i dont know
im assuming if he can get somewhere close to an 80 wRC+ (ish) he is out there for 75% of the time, with josh playing the other 25% maybe?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 14, 2012 9:46 AM CST up reply actions
Gentry is platoon bat
he sucks vs RHP and he is the definition of injury prone. He’ll likely be on the DL as often as Ham and Cruz.
Ideal scenario is Borbon and Gentry as platoon partners to start the season. Borbon looks decent enough to restore his trade value after 2 months. Trade Borbon. Martin becomes the LH platoon partner with Gentry at the end of May for the rest of the year.
Or, Martin wins the job outright and Gentry is the 5th OF, a very valuable role on this club esp as he will be needed in all 3 spots. Borbon is traded for a high ceiling/high risk A-ball player.
gentry is going to give the rangers some value
either as a platoon guy, starter or a 5th OF.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 14, 2012 10:09 AM CST up reply actions
I feel the 2011 season for Gentry is pretty useless to look at
Everything from Gentry’s year last year screams to me as a small sample size fluke. I feel in extended playing time his BA will plummit to the .230’s region (at best) and his OBP will likewise struggle to stay around .300.
There’s a reason this guy was thought of as organization filler until last year – he can’t hit, and 130 good plate appearances in the majors doesn’t change that fact.
"I wish I could tell you that TRangers fought the good fight, and the 2 strangers let him be. I wish I could tell you that - but Beaumont is no fairy-tale world." - bking
but dude
he worked so hard on his timing and seems to have figured it all out. Plus he’s in the best shape of his life.
and has committed himself to an off-season regimen of only eating pizza and chicken wings.
Why don't you have a nice big cup of shut the fuck up? - Lisa W 3/4/2011
lol
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 14, 2012 9:28 AM CST up reply actions
Jones probably puts up a 2.5-3.0 fWAR this year
If Gentry is better than that, then we should be trying to trade Leonys Martin, because the CF position is locked down.
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 14, 2012 9:50 AM CST up reply actions
Unless of course Martin is a 4+ WAR player
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
I don't think anyone expects that of him
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 14, 2012 9:53 AM CST up reply actions
Well when we're talking about Gentry being more than a 3 WAR player
why can’t we also talk about King Leonys being a 4 WAR player
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Speaking of 4 WAR...
Without looking, how many position players in the A.L. last year do folks think had an fWAR of 4.0 or better?
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 14, 2012 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think its too much
20?
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
30
All the SS and then all of the other really good players.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Just looked
Melky? Wow.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Well, I do agree with one thing
We should be trying to trade Leonys Martin.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
This is dumb
Gentry is the same player now as he was in 2009, 2010. Texas knows him well. If the club considered him a legit starter during that time, it didn’t need to sign Martin. They clearly view Martin as having the higher ceiling and I think all prospectors agree.
Where did I say Gentry had a higher ceiling than Martin?
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Because the apparent gap between his prospect ranking and his PCL slash line
Make him a fit trade candidate. I know it’s not going to happen because of the amount of money we have invested, but it’d be nice if we could.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
You really want to defend Martin?
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I totally get that.
My only point is that there appears to be a significant gap between projection and production with Martin, and that’s a reason why he’s a fit trade candidate. But maybe I’m just too bullish on a Gentry/Borbon platoon idea.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
If you understood that
You wouldn’t be drawing conclusions based on the small sample size. His production in AAA wasn’t very meaningful.
the significant chasm here
is between your scouting prowess and theirs.
Chasm. Rarely get to use it in a sentence.
Borbon is a below average offensive player and likely has a career as a 5th OF type as well. I hope he has a nice spring so we can move him along….
Chasm is a solid word.
To be honest, I’m still pissed about passing on Josh Bell, and I’m taking that out on Martin.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
I don't know that the gap is all that big
Seems about right, which is why it would be dumb to trade him before his first full pro tear in the majors
I've gotten myself in some trouble here by posting a snarky response to AJM's post.
I don’t think we should trade Martin. I also think Gentry puts up a better WAR/650 than Adam Jones this year, if given an extended opportunity to play.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Still have to dig a ditch before you go
Speed is not nearly as helpful as you think in overcoming poor hitting skills And Adam Jones is good
The signature bet offer stands.
Don’t particularly like Jones or the direction he’s trending.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
A WAR/PA bet is skewed for Gentry
Since he’s a platoon player and will be protected.
You can’t extrapolate what he’ll do in limited PA as being able to maintain that rate like a full time player would.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Not only would he be protected, but if he reaches that many PAs
he’s doing very well for himself and that sets you up. If he isn’t doing well, he doesn’t see that many PAs.
It’s a win win. Not many guys are allowed to flounder like CD.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
I tried to address that by conditioning the bet on his getting extended playing time.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
He might, depending on how the Rangers view his defense at CF
DRS has Jones as pretty much a bit above average with the exception of 2 seasons, one where he was very good and last season where he was very bad. UZR though has him as pretty consistently poor in CF. The Rangers clearly don’t like putting sub par defensive players on the field and I’d bet they’d go with Gentry a lot, at least to start the season, because of that. Gentry gives you great CF defense that improves whoever is playing the corners around him. That has a lot of value even if the bat isn’t that great.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
xx
Gentry gives you great CF defense that improves whoever is playing the corners around him. That has a lot of value even if the bat isn’t that great.
this si true, but can they stomach putting up with his poor bat?
dude is not a .270 hitter…
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 14, 2012 9:22 AM CST up reply actions
He doesn't have to be. If he can put together a .330 OBP, he should stick.
That should be doable.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
i dont know if he can put up a 330 OBP in the majors
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 14, 2012 9:29 AM CST up reply actions
It's certainly not a slam dunk.
But that speed makes it plausible.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
We'll see how poor the offense is this season
Before last season, I would have never guessed Gentry would put up a .341 wOBA in anything more than 15-20 PAs. Setting the bar at .270 with his speed also isn’t asking for too much.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
We'll see how poor the offense is this season
Before last season, I would have never guessed Gentry would put up a .341 wOBA in anything more than 15-20 PAs. Setting the bar at .270 with his speed also isn’t asking for too much.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Adam Jones career wRC+ against lefties: 77
Only 10 points higher than Murphy.
And Murphy’s actually got a decent edge against righties.
There's a fire in the city of pictures
Leaving nothing but ashes below
Right?
I keep looking at Jones’ profile, and if he can’t stick in CF, he’s…David Murphy. His next two years should be telling.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Jones is consistently a .290ish wOBA against lefties
Murphy has had one season where he wasn’t absolutely terrible against lefties in 2010. Outside of that, he’s been terrible against them including a 54 wRC+ against them in 09 and a 35 wRC+ against them last season. I’d say any sign of Murphy not being terrible against lefties is just some luck.
And over the last 3 years, Jones has a 121, 116, and 120 wRC+. Murphy over the past 3 years is at 110, 125, and 115. Jones in his first 2 partial seasons with Seattle were terrible and then he was below average as a 22 year old. For some reason, you don’t like Jones and you’re really grasping for reasons to crap on him.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Grasping?
Come on, dude. The guy’s a major-league regular. Nothing more.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
.290ish wOBA is fucking terrible against left-handers, dude.
Platoon-player splits, even if he is right-handed. Which is the point. Even if Murphy is worse against lefties, neither one should be playing against them.
Jones is a massively overrated player who wouldn’t add anything to our roster, IMO. He can’t hit left-handers, he can’t really play CF now or long-term, and his bat isn’t going to make him valuable as a COF.
All he’d do is block Martin and play a shitty CF.
There's a fire in the city of pictures
Leaving nothing but ashes below
.290 is bad, but its not an automatic out against them
David Murphy is an automatic out against lefties.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
Anything sub-.300 is pretty much an automatic out in my book.
If not an automatic out, a basically worthless plate appearance.
There's a fire in the city of pictures
Leaving nothing but ashes below
you really wouldn't trade Koji for Adam Jones?
really?
Just don't piss her off, otherwise she'll get all Dien Bien Phu up in your Boxer Rebellion - caknuck
btho Iowa State
i would do that trade yesterday
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Me as well
In my original post up there the exclamation point was me being sarcastic since there’s no way I figured even Baltimore (with all of their love for Koji) would trade Adam Jones for Uehara.
"I wish I could tell you that TRangers fought the good fight, and the 2 strangers let him be. I wish I could tell you that - but Beaumont is no fairy-tale world." - bking
I don't think Jones helps improve our roster in the short or long terms
He won’t (or shouldn’t be allowed, anyway) to stick in center, and he’s not much, if any better than Murphy if you move him off of center.
All I see is a mediocre player who we’d be locking into our lineup.
There's a fire in the city of pictures
Leaving nothing but ashes below
His fWAR the last two seasons is 2.9 and 2.6
If that’s your definition of “sucks,” you’ve got a really high bar.
He also just turned 26.
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 14, 2012 9:45 AM CST up reply actions
The fact that he just turned 26 (seems like he's been around forever now) makes his intriguing.
But
PAs/BB%/ISO
2009: 519/6.9/.180
2010: 621/3.7/.158
2011: 618/4.7/.185
If they’re to be believed, his defensive numbers suggest he’s a COF playing CF. And at a COF spot, he’s, what, David Murphy?
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
x
If they’re to be believed, his defensive numbers suggest he’s a COF playing CF.
His career UZR/150 is -3.4.
His career DRS/150 is around +3 or +4.
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 14, 2012 10:03 AM CST up reply actions
His DRS is only positive because it massively overvalues his arm.
DRS’s range metric says he’s terrible too.
And I really don’t think any amount of cannon-arm is actually going to make up for not being able to get to anything.
There's a fire in the city of pictures
Leaving nothing but ashes below
mind = blown
adam jones > domonic brown
brown is broken as shit
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 14, 2012 9:09 AM CST up reply actions
xx
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 14, 2012 9:15 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think we know exactly who Brown is quite yet.
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Wait how is Brown broken?
Sure he had a bad year (and even in the minors his power was way down) but his minor league numbers demonstrate he still has a good approach at the plate. The Phillies just kept jerking him around everywhere which kept him from ever finding any real groove last year.
I feel he’s a fantastic buy low guy.
"I wish I could tell you that TRangers fought the good fight, and the 2 strangers let him be. I wish I could tell you that - but Beaumont is no fairy-tale world." - bking
yanked around
good buy low guy, yes
but if i am acquiring one guy i want jones, not brown
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 14, 2012 9:57 AM CST up reply actions
Oh ok makes sense then
Honestly I’d rather have Brown instead of Jones just because of the whole 6 years of control vs. 2 and I feel Brown has the much higher ceiling. However I do like both players so I can understand liking Jones over Brown.
"I wish I could tell you that TRangers fought the good fight, and the 2 strangers let him be. I wish I could tell you that - but Beaumont is no fairy-tale world." - bking
Brown is 2 years younger and has the better pedigree, no?
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
2 years younger
and about 550 MLB games behind jones
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 14, 2012 10:10 AM CST up reply actions
you know thats a different story and something I'm not opposed to
then we would have a need for Oswalt. maybe thats what he’s waiting on.
NO This is why i dont come here so much anymore. it has become a destination for certain types which i am not. Love the rangers, not this -- Mark from OC on Arrested Development
Well our GM has stated we are over budget already
So I don’t think his theory that we have to clear salary to sign Oswalt is that far fetched. It’s probably a case of us wanting his price to come down but also needing to clear money to sign him even if his price comes down.
by bigsteve on Feb 14, 2012 8:42 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
I think price is just the Rangers excuse to Oswalt
for why they won’t sign him now but making sure to not burn that bridge in case an injury happens or a good trade is found to create a spot for him.
Josey Wales: "And if you think intangibles really do exist, how in the F could you vote Ellsbury as the MVP?"
Adam J. Morris: "If it weren’t for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college."
hhmm.....
Maybe the Rangers are shopping Harrison at his peak value for some really young guys to back fill for down the road. Then they get Oswalt on a one year deal to fill in since we’ll have a couple of AAA pitchers ready for the Bigs in 2013.
My bad.
Someone needs to introduce Koji to the wonders of
American prostitutes.
"It’s Advil and beef in the Texas Rangers, you yankee bastard."
- Nolan Ryan
And Roy Orbison
/ONLY THE LONELY
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
Are you implying that my girlfriend
associates with prostitutes?
"It’s Advil and beef in the Texas Rangers, you yankee bastard."
- Nolan Ryan
forgetaboutit
Expectation is the root of all heartache. — William Shakespeare
by TheDutchOven on Feb 14, 2012 10:33 AM CST up reply actions
I'm picking up my Darvish shirsy today.
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Feb 14, 2012 9:11 AM CST via mobile reply actions
I got one on Sunday
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
I was at a place that had them on Sat.
But I didn’t have any money with me. lol
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Feb 14, 2012 11:24 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
saw the darvish shirseys at dick's over the weekend.
with the japanese on the front of them. thinking about getting one
I jinxed the Rangers on 13 April 2011
Ive seen those, and I have two questions about them
A) What does the Japanese say?
B) What’s on the back?
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Feb 14, 2012 11:51 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
What the hell is going on in that picture?
I thought I saw a retweet last night of a story about the Rangers possibly going to a 6-man rotation for a while to help Darvish get adjusted.
That’s crazy talk.
My bad.
Just watched Derek Holland do the weather on 8
the best part was his girlfriend…amazing what fame/fortune can pull off.
by Apes and Androids on Feb 14, 2012 9:38 AM CST reply actions
She looks fully grown.
Which is a stark contrast to him.
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
do arnold, big boy
I jinxed the Rangers on 13 April 2011
by TagDon'tTweet on Feb 14, 2012 10:03 AM CST up reply actions
Arnold:
Come on me if you want to live.
by Apes and Androids on Feb 14, 2012 10:06 AM CST up reply actions
i read this in the arnold voice
worth it
I jinxed the Rangers on 13 April 2011
by TagDon'tTweet on Feb 14, 2012 10:49 AM CST up reply actions
So Koji is lonely in America
Hopefully Yu will change that if he stays
"I wish I could tell you that TRangers fought the good fight, and the 2 strangers let him be. I wish I could tell you that - but Beaumont is no fairy-tale world." - bking
Yu and Yoshi need to help him feel at home
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Feb 14, 2012 11:52 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Matt Harrison to Boston for Ryan Lavarnway and Brandon Jacobs
Sign Roy Oswalt.
1. Darvish
2. Oswalt (Feldman insurance)
3. Holland
4. Lewis
5. Feliz
Perez or Ramirez replaces Oswalt. Cole Hammels replaces Colby Lewis.
Boom
Yu is ours
I was wanting
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Feb 14, 2012 11:53 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Danggit
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Feb 14, 2012 11:53 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I wanted to see where that was going
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Feb 14, 2012 11:53 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Maybe.
Hamels*
"I have thought a lot about why people get so hostile online, and I have come to believe it is primarily because we live in a society with a hypertrophied sense of justice and an atrophied sense of humility and charity, to put the matter in terms of the classic virtues." --Alan Jacobs
Yes
You’d be getting a catcher (who can’t catch) with a broke man’s Mike Napoli ceiling and a raw OF who hasn’t made it past A ball yet. That’s a terrible return for Harrison. If you’re going to trade him, the return has to be closer than Jacobs and better than Lavarnway.
by LiamP on Feb 14, 2012 10:46 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Interesting pic!
"Look if you want a journalist hire a UT grad. If you want a doctor you pick a Baylor grad. If you need a vet you see an Aggie grad. And if you need a pizza you call a Tech grad." -BUBacker
Beware of Trolls: b.pate, jonthefon, K.S.B., Panorama, Robert L. Bishop, TideNTexas
x
MLB @MLB
BREAKING: @WhiteSox, OF Kosuke Fukudome agree to terms on 1-year, $1 million deal with club option for 2013.
What should I get Neffy, you guys?
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Feb 14, 2012 11:24 AM CST via mobile reply actions
HAY PEOPLE!!!
We’re not about sending messages. We’re about winning ballgames.-Wash, 04/03/11
Hell to the fucking no. -Wash, 10/07/11
x
"the PGT isn’t about alerting drunk guys on their mobile as to what the score was." --goET 7-24-11
"Replace Ace? Done. Ace's was too long anyway." --Micah 1-17-12
Ha!
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Feb 14, 2012 1:05 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I thought he'd get
around Martin money given the greater risk as he’s probably 3 yrs away.
David Kaplan
says Cubs don’t have a deal in place and that any talk of a 4/27.5 deal is “ludicrous”.
Yes
I don’t think he has any particular TX sources though, so here, he is likely just recirculating previous talk…
I'm sure this has been discussed...
I haven’t been able to keep up with LSB as much lately…
With all the prospect rankings coming out, where would Darvish be on the list if considered? #2 only behind Harper? Lower?
by Topgun22 on Feb 14, 2012 12:50 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I'd put him #4
I hate The Angels so much, it's actually cramping my style. (See RevHaloFans SBN profile page)
by Gay For Feliz on Feb 14, 2012 1:05 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I see him at #4 mostly
but it doesn’t make much sense to me. Of “the elite 3” Moore is obviously the easiest comparison to make sense they are both pitchers. In Moore’s 4 years of milb he has 2x posted a whip below 1. In Darvish’s 5 years of japanese ball he has once posted a whip above .9. Darvish’s career K/BB ratio is 4.9, Moore has never done better than this year’s 4.57. Darvish is only 2 years older than moore and when at the same age was already the best pitcher in what many consider to be AAAA. Perhaps I’m biased, and do fully expect Matt Moore to be an all-star after watching him pitch in the ALDS, but I don’t understand how Darvish isn’t considered to be a better prospect right now.
Moore is a better prospect than Darvish.
I don’t think you could find any prospect person who thought otherwise.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
but why?
Also do you really think that the rangers don’t think darvish is a better prospect than moore? The cost outlay for him puts his expected projection above CJ Wilson, Jared Weaver, Felix Hernandez. If you think Moore will be better than those guys then I suppose he is a better prospect but if not then I think the Rangers FO thinks Darvish is the better prospect.
I know that people keep reporting him being better I just don’t understand why, other than familiarity. I mean last time we saw moore he was mowing down one of the best lineups in baseball in the playoffs a few months ago. Last time we saw Darvish was 2 years ago in an exhibition game against a hodge-podge team pitching in relief.
Like I said, I’ve seen what people say but it doesn’t make a lick of sense to me. It seems like everyone is all tainted by diceK
Moore is heading into his age 23 season.
Can throw 100MPH with ease like a left handed Feliz… but also with fantastic control.
Moore is ridiculous.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
Also... picking Moore over Darvish isn't an insult to Darvish.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
agreed, but picking Darvish over Moore is seems to be taken as such
That’s what I’m saying doesn’t make sense to me.
I went through it quickly and now have to do so for work.
bushe if you still want an answer in a few hours I’ll try and give you a better one.
But something to consider is that money isn’t the means of determining who is the better prospect.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
*have to go for work
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else." by Earl Weaver
He wasn't just looking at money.
He was looking at career WHIP and K/BB specifically, with Darvish taking both at the higher competitive level (NPB > AA/AAA).
I certainly haven’t dug into the stats to see what the others say, but those two are somewhat intriguing.
I think the answer that I can come up with
is that you look at Moore’s stuff and believe it will translate better than Darvish’s, despite what the NPB results tell you, mainly because people don’t fully trust that the NPB is a comparable league. WHIP is kind of meaningless since Moore had to rely on minor league defense but the peripherals make for a better debate.
that's a decent point
Colby Lewis had WHIPs of 1.000 and .992. His HR/9 rate was .6 and .7 his two years in the league. Darvish had a HR/9 rate of .3 on the career. Moore is at .6 last year and career is .5.
I’m not trying to slam Moore I just can’t fathom why he is clearly better. It certainly isn’t in the numbers. Darvish is better than DiceK was, and not by a little.
All things being equal, I would lean toward the left hander.
Moore touches 100, Darvish throws 96-97. Darvish has more pitches(7 or 8 supposedly). However, Moore is younger,adapted to the US culture and familiar with the ball. Moore’s ranking should be higher, if only by a bit.
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