Sunday morning things
Good news, everyone...lots of Rangers stuff today, and just about all of it relates to something other than Nolan Ryan!
Evan Grant's game story has a headline about Nolan Ryan being impressed by the Rangers' prospects, but it is really about guys like Chris Davis and Elvis Andrus making the most out of their stint at the big league camp.
Randy Galloway says Jon Daniels, Ron Washington, and Victor Rojas have all gotten onto him for being too sour, so he goes through some things to feel positive about in Rangers camp, with Chris Davis and Matt Harrison high on the list.
Galloway also has some Rangers folks responding to his criticism of Washington's offensive philosophy:
The Rangers, under Washington, have become The Team that Hates Home Runs.
Yes, it's a joke. Yes, deep counts are important. No, Washington doesn't hate home runs. But I amused myself with that nickname.
Mere survival in the American League is about run production. About power. And at Rangers Ballpark in Arlington, if you don't have it, that's a death wish.
Washington assured me he is merely attempting to "manage what he's got to manage." Meaning his batting order doesn't have a lot of pop.
But Daniels, the GM who still answers my questions despite a lot of printed negativity over his work, ran down the expected 2008 lineup, and with optimism, found plenty of potential home runs, particularly if Hamilton is healthy and clean.
Let me also mention third baseman Hank Blalock, who if finally healthy, can bring back the muscle.
Actually, Daniels' optimism on power is somewhat valid, based on the "if" factor.
But at the mere mention of The Team that Hates Home Runs theory, hitting coach Rudy Jaramillo barked at me, and jokingly (I think) called for security to remove me from the field during batting practice.
"Look, there's only one philosophy to all this," Rudy said. "Get a good pitch to hit, and drive it. What we are working on here is recognizing what to do if you don't get the good pitch to hit."
Here's what I don't get...how is it that working the count means you don't want to hit home runs?
Doesn't working the count make it more likely you'll get into a hitter's count, and thus get a pitch you can drive?
Doesn't working the count mean making the pitchers throw more pitches, which means getting a tired starter or a weaker member of the bullpen throwing you pitches, thus making it more likely you get a pitch you can drive?
I don't understand why Galloway thinks working the count means not wanting to hit home runs...
The DMN notes say Kevin Millwood's hamstring hinders him from fielding his position, so he may pitch a simulated game rather than a real game in his next outing. There's also thoughts from Travis Metcalf on his newfound love of Texas country...
Anthony Andro breaks down the four candidates for the utility infielder job -- Ramon Vazquez, German Duran, Edgardo Alfonzo, and Ryan Roberts. I'm embarrassed to admit I didn't know what position Roberts played until I read this item.
JFE has a weird pseudo-prediction up about Michael Young:
And, yes, there are other teams that would be interested in Young at his salary. He is underrated and partly because he plays for the Rangers. We tend to bestow greatness tags on players who have done it in the postseason.
I guess she's implying that Young is going to ask the Rangers to deal him, because he has a full no-trade clause he'd have to waive in order to be dealt.
And if JFE thinks any team would take on all of Young's contract -- particularly after the 2008 season, at which point there will be 5 years and $80 million left on the deal -- she's fooling herself. If the Rangers wanted to deal Young, they'd have to eat some of his contract and expect to get nothing in return. Particularly if he hits in 2008 like he did in 2007.
Alan Schwarz has an article in the New York Times about Milton Bradley. My favorite part:
T.R. Sullivan has Poor Toby's Almanac up.
And the S-T's notes include Kea Kometani's 5 favorite Hawaii-based TV shows...
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Michael Young's Under-Ratedness
by LoneStarBallUser on Mar 2, 2008 10:34 AM CST reply actions
mike young
Bobby Abreu?
He was Mr. .300/.400/.500 for a while there ('98-'05), with good defense and pretty good speed on the bases and yet I can't remember him ever being discussed with the upper-echelon players in the league.
Who overrated him?
I'm not sure who overrated him.
Here's what I don't get
by LoneStarBallUser on Mar 2, 2008 10:57 AM CST reply actions
I really dont think youngs contract is as bad
Oh dont be embarrased about not knowing what position Roberts played. I didnt even know he was invited to camp.
So...
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 2, 2008 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
Yes!
Since he got called up
How bad is that line gonna look at 3rd base in
Another thing, to me Young has all sorts of all-star potential but has been blocked by Jeter, who to me is maybe slightly better defensivly than Young and making alot more. You dont see the Yanks trading Jeter do you? No because he is the heart and soul of the Yanks. To me that is what Young is. He brings veteran leadership to a young club, gives you 200 hits a year, a 300 + average, and gets on base. Did I mention Clutch? Im sure many teams would want him despite his contract. In no way is it not tradable.
But hey, thats just my opinion and Im sticking to it. If he was traded, I would want a stud pitcher/outfielder that is major league ready or proven. And if what people are saying is true and we would have to throw in money or recieve a terrible return, then there is no reason to trade him away.
I think the problem
by thesplendidsplinter on Mar 2, 2008 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
Not as bad?
"Another thing, to me Young has all sorts of all-star potential but has been blocked by Jeter, who to me is maybe slightly better defensivly than Young and making alot more."
What?
If and when you have
Why can you live with it...
And the question isn't whether that's a line you can live with...it is whether that's a line that is worth $15-16 million per year.
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 2, 2008 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
That's only part of the question
by LoneStarBallUser on Mar 2, 2008 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
Sorry guys,
He cant and shouldnt be expected to carry a team by himself like he did last year.
Young
by thesplendidsplinter on Mar 2, 2008 4:45 PM CST up reply actions
It doesn't make sense...
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 2, 2008 4:47 PM CST up reply actions
Adam Adam Adam
The amount of MYs
That line
You say that Jeter is slightly better defensively which is arguable. It's also not a good way to defend Young's contract. Also, you forgot to mention that Jeter is MUCH better offensively and that isn't arguable.
This isn't a knock on Young but just how clutch can a player be when his team finishes 10+ games out of first place every year? When does he need to be clutch?
by LoneStarBallUser on Mar 2, 2008 1:49 PM CST up reply actions
Clutch
by thesplendidsplinter on Mar 2, 2008 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
If?
Is this a joke? You know there is such a stat, yes? And many derivatives that can be found dozens of places in less than a minute (depending on the speed of your connection, I suppose). That's sort've like saying "if there is a stat that records how often a guy hits a ball over the fence or touches all four bases in a single hit."
Anywho, in his career, Michael Young has 594 hits in 1,964 at-bats with men on. Last year he was 107/327.
In the 2007 season Michael Young hit .376 with runners in scoring position. Not necessarily proof that he's clutch (or how important clutch is), but wuddya know, you've got a valid point: that was good for fourth in baseball.
The Hardball Times gives him a "clutch" score of 11.0, also fourth in all of baseball. Doesn't mean clutch is meaningful or a repeatable skill, but for whatever clutch is worth, he was good at it last season.
Here is Michael Young's splits page on Baseball Reference: http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=youngmi02&year=00
There you can find his performance is almost any situation imaginable (runners on the corners with two outs in the bottom of the sixth while batting fourth in the line-up, stuff like that). Just PLEASE keep in mind that this is all a small sample size.
And if you were, indeed, kidding, sorry for the essay.
Lol...
by thesplendidsplinter on Mar 2, 2008 8:19 PM CST up reply actions
thoughts
jeter should have been moved to 3b or 2b or CF when arod came.
imo:
defense: toss up (young>arm. jeter>glove)
hitting (avg): advantage young
hitting (power): advantage jeter
running: advantage jeter
mike young: last 3 years
ops+: 131, 108, 107
HR: 24, 14, 9
2b: 40, 52, 37
avg: .331, .314, .315
jeter: last 3 years
ops+: 125, 131, 121
hr: 19, 14, 12
2b: 25, 39, 39
avg: .309, .343, .322
jeter: 162 game career averages (13 seasons)
17 hr, 122 OPS+, 34 2b, .317 BA
career high's:
24 hr, 153 ops+, 44 2b, .349 BA
career earnings: 139,630,000
m young: 162 game career averages (8 seasons)
16 HR, 103 ops+, 36 2b, .302 BA
career high's:
24 HR, 131 OPS+, 52 2b, .331 BA
money earned: 10,340,000
m young:
most similar by age:
- thurman munson
- jose vidro
- barry larkin
- munson
- vidro
- larkin
- todd walker
- carlos guillen
- placiod polanco
most similar by age:
- r alomar
- r alomar
- r alomar
- r alomar
- r alomar
- fankie frisch
- r alomar
- f frisch
- ryan sandberg
- alan trammell
- pudge
- barry larkin
- alan trammel
- ray durham
- ryan sandberg
- arky vaughan
if jeter was in texas/m young was in NYC their all star games in would be different imo
jeter all star games: 8
m young all star games: 4
by knockoutking24 on Mar 2, 2008 5:51 PM CST up reply actions
ummm
not sure where all those stats get me lol
by knockoutking24 on Mar 2, 2008 5:51 PM CST up reply actions
You should read them, then.
Sad, but true.
Jeter is suddenly good defensively?
And what makes MY clutch? And how can clutch possibly be THAT important?
MY's contract sucks monkey balls.
ARod
by a bebop a rebop on Mar 2, 2008 2:09 PM CST up reply actions
Once the Face's extension kicks in
ARod is so worth 11mm more than the Face.
Sorry
I was typing too fast, watching the Mavs blow a game versus Lala they should've won if they didn't suck.
Dirkles is officially the only good player left on that team.
Randomness:
Dat ting's beeg, Doc.
Hamilton's leg pain
by LoneStarBallUser on Mar 2, 2008 11:34 AM CST reply actions
Randy Galloway
He doesn't take sh*t from anyone.
+1
Exactly what I was thinking.
Yeah, that made no sense to me, either.
The Lakers are engaging a triangle offense, hoping for equal opportunities. I'm calling them "the team that doesn't like to dunk."
My dad washes his hands every time he goes to the bathroom. I'm calling him, "the man that doesn't like asparagus."
These things are just as related.
Yep
Take more pitches = get good pitches to hit/walk
Get good pitches/walk = get on base
Get on base = run production
Yes, teams that hit home runs tend to score a good number of runs. But teams that have guys on base when they hit those home runs (or even doubles) tend to score even more runs.
like a lot of things
reminds me of something
I think you're oversimplifying others' positions.
- The reason why batting averages are higher with zero strikes is because players only swing at good pitches (in general) on the first pitch. With two strikes they're forced to defend the strike zone.
- Nobody's saying it's a good idea to watch hittable pitches go by. If you can drive it, swing. If you can't drive it (until you've got two strikes on you), don't swing.
by a bebop a rebop on Mar 2, 2008 1:32 PM CST up reply actions
Patience
Sorry
In other news, Chris Martin has Galloway's bit down perfectly.
Gallo is old school
shroomer's recent idea
That's the kind of offer Young's contract merits, but I don't think I'd do it.
Trying to think of a position player who'd be a realistic trade offer and not coming up with much.
In a heartbeat
by hightowersmith on Mar 2, 2008 1:03 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I know it wouldn't work
Bottom line is Young ain't going anywhere. I'm just hoping he regains some power.
Looking at Wells career
http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/wellsve01.shtml
Young
It seems like butting the head against a stone wall to get anyone to hear "stop and average his pay over a ten year period, and make it a running average 2002-2011, 2003-2012, etc. I guess the intangibles could be considered as well, since they rock the boat both ways (putdowns and praise) for others such as Jeter. But intangibles aside, MY is no different than a corporate employee who comes through, first greater than expected, then tops that. That employee may hold corporate office and draw down a dozen times over what he is worth at some point in his career. Very comparable to high salary staleness in baseball, and exorbitant NBA contracts for players considerably past their prime.
He deserves credit for what he has done. He doesn't deserve ripping for what he may not be able to do. Sheesh, it's like statistically sound baseball fans get more emotional (both ways) than others who are not so good at analysis.
by Ed Coffin on Mar 2, 2008 5:44 PM CST up reply actions
Huh?
Why does what he earned from 2002-2008 have any bearing on what he earns from 2009-and on?
He was pre-arb in most of those seasons, and he agreed to be payed those salaries when he signed that contract.
I absolutely positively do NOT understand that logic.
I think that there is an important distinction
But I think that many fans of Young sometimes mistake criticism of his value as a player relative to his cost as a criticism of him. It's not. I was very critical of the extension when it was announced and have continued to be, not because Young is not a good player and not because I don't want him on the Rangers. I criticized it because, in my opinion, it was not going to be a a wise allocation of resources moving forward.
And if you are suggesting that I would be incorrect to criticize the fact that re-signing him at that cost because "he's earned it" or something along those lines, I think that you're the one being emotional and irrational. Just because something happens in the corporate world doesn't mean that it is a worthy trend.
I will say, some who agree with my opinion do not do a good job of expressing it, causing others to think that they somehow hold it against Young, rather than the team, that he could hold the club back as they are starting to contend. I like Young a lot, and in my criticism I try to be very clear that it's not his fault that he is bafflingly batted third and will be dramatically overpaid. That doesn't make it a good decision, though.
by Brett Perryman on Mar 2, 2008 6:02 PM CST up reply actions
Answer to both replies
Then - why the ten year running window makes sense. It is ongoing value analysis, while pegging a guy at his peak income (no matter what his performance numbers are) is nonsense. At the end of his career, you can assess lifetime (career) cost and lifetime (MLB active cumulative) contribution. That time isn't here yet.
No offense in particular, just a generality I think needed to be said.
by Ed Coffin on Mar 2, 2008 6:13 PM CST up reply actions
Sorry
- Very successful baseball players might play for 15 years. In light of that, a running ten-year-window is ridiculous. Barry Bonds would continue to be paid handsomely for another five or ten years, even if he never played another game in his life, 'cause his running ten-year window, well, it's got a 73 home run season in it! Can't forget about that!
- Context: in order for an analysis like that to make sense, you'd have to consider how much similar ballplayers were paid over their ten-year windows and the full course of their careers. I guarantee you that Michael Young will be overpaid in any analysis which contextualizes the data (barring a ridiculous late-career resurgence).
by a bebop a rebop on Mar 2, 2008 7:39 PM CST up reply actions
No, absolutely not
How does what a guy got paid over the last five years influence whether he's worth any present/future contract? IT FREAKING DOESN'T, that's how.
For instance: Let's say you're looking for a residence and you find a nice little townhouse with lots of potential in a neighborhood everyone is saying is and up and coming neighborhood. The only problem is the landlord wants a five year lease. You look at those nice hardwood floors, the granite counter tops in the kitchen and master bath, and all the cool little shops and restaurants going in around the place and you just can't resist, so you sign the papers and take out a 5 year lease for about 1,000 a month.
As soon as you sign the contract though, the neighborhood completely blows up. It becomes the it neighborhood for young professionals, even getting a little national coverage when it makes it on the cover of "Neighborhoods Magazine". The worth of a place like yours instantly doubles to 2,000 a month.
There's no hard feelings from your landlord (though he does drop a couple of not-so-subtle hints on a few local talk shows about how he's not getting enough rent for his nice, well-respected-around-the-neighborhood property), and he provides you with excellent all around service.
At the end of your five year lease you go to talk to him about renewing, and he says that he's amenable to that, but "since you paid about 1,000 less per month than the place was worth for 5 years, how would you feel about signing a new 5 year contract and paying 1,000 more per month than the place is worth over the next five years?"
I know comparing renting a townhouse to employing a baseball player is apples and oranges (at best), but it seems like the same basic logic to me.
If you assess the lifetime cost and value of your time in the townhouse, instead of pegging the townhouse at it's peak rent, which would be "nonsense", then that hypothetical landlords logic about that next five year contract doesn't seem that stupid. But it sure sounds stupid to me.
SIgh
Heh .. in fact I just leased a place (now moved in) for a reduced price per month and two levels of discount from that, in spite of a minor subprime mortgage exodus by homeowners to longer term leasing. And I did lease for a longer than published term. But I expect if I renew, I'll see a pretty good escalation in the price. You did make a good simile, though.
by Ed Coffin on Mar 2, 2008 8:09 PM CST up reply actions
MY
In the case of re-signing an existing player, there is necessarily going to be more emotion involved. Casual fans (defined in this instance as those that don't concern themselves with declining players salary burden on a payroll) and players are going to exhibit much more displeasure when a team "lets" a player leave then they will when a team chooses not to sign a free agent on the market.
Players receiving these bloated, past-their-prime contracts is a byproduct of the collective bargaining agreement. Is there a team excluding the Marlins that doesn't have at least one of these contracts?
Were Posada (36yo, 4yr/52.4 million) and Rivera (38yo, 3yr/45 million) worth those salaries? Are they being overcompensated for past performance with their current team?
by Randy Richardson on Mar 2, 2008 9:42 PM CST up reply actions
To be fair. . .
This does not mean I miss your point.
Posada
by Randy Richardson on Mar 2, 2008 9:56 PM CST up reply actions
no doubt
by Randy Richardson on Mar 2, 2008 10:05 PM CST up reply actions
Posada
His 2007 was absurd.
(Though I remember hearing it was driven in large part to a completely unsustainable BABIP.)
And in the case of Mo and Posada, the Yankees can be excused a bit because they're trying to win RIGHT NOW, and those guys were the best available FA's at their positions. We extended the Face long before he hit FA, and we extended him right before we went into a rebuilding phase.
by thedirkatron on Mar 2, 2008 10:46 PM CST up reply actions
Young/Posada
We don't know that Young is declining - two years is not an irreversible trend. Although my intention is not to argue about MY's decline but rather to argue that teams regular overpay their own players for past (potentially underpaid) performance.
by Randy Richardson on Mar 2, 2008 11:03 PM CST up reply actions
Young is declining
But that doesn't mean the decline is irrevocable and he'll continue to decline in the future, and indeed I think he's a good bet to rebound a little this year.
The fact that teams regularly give out contracts that seem to reflect their past performance more than their expected future return is neither here nor there, imo. I'm not sure what you're trying to say about this trend vis a vis Franchise Face (which is the context under which you brought it up). Are you saying that you think the Young contract is a good one because of this? Or that we shouldn't complain about it because if you look around the league it's an inevitability that such contracts get handed out to Faces of Franchises? Or are you merely pointing out that it happens?
My take: Just because lots of teams make a certain mistake doesn't mean that makes it any less dumb for you to make that mistake yourself.
by thedirkatron on Mar 3, 2008 12:53 AM CST up reply actions
Young
That having been said, it is my opinion, that overpaying to keep your own players is more rational (given their past underpaid performance) for baseball management than signing an equivalent free agent.
by Randy Richardson on Mar 3, 2008 9:01 AM CST up reply actions
How is it
by thedirkatron on Mar 2, 2008 10:51 PM CST up reply actions
CBA
by Randy Richardson on Mar 2, 2008 11:07 PM CST up reply actions
How so?
by thedirkatron on Mar 3, 2008 12:41 AM CST up reply actions
In any given year,
This year, not one good picture hit the market so a guy like Carlos Silva was rewarded with a huge contract.
Supply is artificially low.
by Randy Richardson on Mar 3, 2008 8:46 AM CST up reply actions
Ed,
If Charmin is on sale for a penny a roll, are you going to go back and buy rolls of charmin and $5 a roll just because you got it on sale for years? That's just plain nuts.
Yep
Isn't that the Young contract in a nutshell? Too much, maybe too long, but ......
by Ed Coffin on Mar 3, 2008 8:37 AM CST up reply actions
Unfortunately,
You have locked up a depreciating asset.
Signing Young to that contract is like buying a Bugatti Veyron. If you have the money, what the heck.
However, since Young likely represents 15%-25% of this teams payroll over the next five years, I'm not sure we have the money to burn on a 5th-6th best guy at a position.
Now
:)
by Ed Coffin on Mar 3, 2008 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
Carlos Lee?
Pretty much anyone who's got a big contract and diminishing/diminished production.
I know most of those teams don't have a need for a MIF like the Face, but those are the types of guys I could see teams being interested in trading for MY if they did.
Milton Bradley
I bet he's the Rangers most underrated player this year.
Milton Bradley
by thesplendidsplinter on Mar 2, 2008 1:27 PM CST up reply actions
Bradley,
by Brett Perryman on Mar 2, 2008 5:46 PM CST up reply actions
The assumption
A year
by Brett Perryman on Mar 2, 2008 6:09 PM CST up reply actions
I freakin' love him
And I say if he proves healthy and produces, we sign him long-term - forget trading him...we can have him for 3 more years of his prime
by Walter Sobchak on Mar 2, 2008 6:42 PM CST up reply actions

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