Thanksgiving stuff

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 22, 2007 9:53 AM CST in News

Big news today, as the Rangers have signed Ramon Vazquez to a one year deal, thus putting to rest the question of who the utility infielder next year will be.

Nothing else out there of note...except, of course, the Torii Hunter deal.

Hunter gets 5 years, $90 million to go to the Angels.

Wow. Not a real good contract for the Angels, I don't think. My reaction here is much the same as when they signed GMJ last year...yeah, it is a division rival, but that contract is going to hurt them, particularly when the Rangers are ready to compete.

I said last year that the Angels were spending $10 million per year on a corner outfielder, and this deal sort of corroborates that, although with the injury issues Vlad Guerrero and Garret Anderson have been having, GMJ will probably still end up playing semi-regularly in a corner slot.

The Angels, I'm guessing, decided they had to have Hunter because Arte Moreno has decreed they had to get a big bat behind Vlad, and Hunter was the biggest bat available.

As you folks know, though, I don't think Hunter is a big bat.

Inexplicable signing, and one that bodes well, I think, for the Rangers long-term.

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Couldn't agree with you more AJM...

great news. Now does JD turn to Jones or Rowand? Should be interesting.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Nov 22, 2007 9:48 AM CST reply actions

Huge Great News for Rangers!!

as I have said before, I think Hunter will be solid for at least the next couple of years but he won't ever hit as well as last year again. Probably 10-15% less than last year and I think you can add 5% per year after that. The Rangers won't likely be truly ready to compete for 2 years and then are you going to want the last 3 years of the Hunter contract? I think not. Let's wait until our young pitching comes of age a bit and then if we need a bat, get him then.

by jefe6801 on Nov 22, 2007 9:50 AM CST reply actions

WOOO HOOO!

Not only do the Rangers not get Hunter, but he turns a 10 mil a year player for the Angels into a 4th outfielder.

Bad news (depending on what you had hoped for this offseason) that $18 mil/yr means that the Rangers probably won't be in the bidding for A.Jones or A.Rowand either...

by Brandon Wilson on Nov 22, 2007 9:58 AM CST reply actions

I really didnt see this coming.....

it kinda sucks but 18 mil yr is way to much.

"I'd need a picture of Jamey with a shotgun saying "This is my Boomstick!" before I could see that one." DJCahill

by NYTXFAN on Nov 22, 2007 10:03 AM CST reply actions

And..

Angels lose the first rounder. The more the angels try and win now the better off the Rangers will be in the future. So heres to hoping they empty the farm for Tejada or Cabrera, preferably Tejada but I'm sure he will come a little cheaper.

Remember that time your dog ate my goldfish, and you lied and told me I didn't have any goldfish? Why did I have the bowl bart? Why did I have the bowl?

by i hit straight ball very much on Nov 22, 2007 10:06 AM CST reply actions

LA Times lead

"The Angels pulled off their second stunning -- and somewhat perplexing -- move of the week late Wednesday night, signing free-agent center fielder Torii Hunter to a five-year, $90-million contract, the richest deal in franchise history."

I love it when the hometown paper calls a move perplexing... ha ha

by Brandon Wilson on Nov 22, 2007 10:11 AM CST reply actions

You know....

I get why people on here are happy he's not a Ranger for that type of money, but being happy that he's on the Angels seems dumb to me.

Yes, that is a lot of money to pay for a player on the decline. Yes, that contract could limit the angels ability to reshape their roster at a time when the Rangers are hoping to be in competition for the division. However, they signed a very good player.

Money aside for a moment. This could lead to a whole host of trades, other signing, etc. The Angels just showed FA's that they intend to compete year in and year out. That's not a good thing for the Rangers.

Again....I get being happy that he's not on the Rangers. I just feel like this whole "WOO HOO he's on the Angels" smacks of sour grapes some how.

by bdavison94 on Nov 22, 2007 10:29 AM CST reply actions

no sour grapes at all

The worst thing that could happen would be for the Angels to gradually incorporate the incredible depth they have in the minor leagues into big league regulars. To me this deal makes them good (maybe even better) for a year or two, but ensures that the huge youth bubble (that I thought was going to haunt us for a decade) will be dismantled and traded away, probably for nickels.

My fear was always that the Angels would find a way to be good now and later because their farm system was so good. I no longer fear that and consider Arte Moreno to be about as bad an owner as Tom Hicks was early on.

by Brandon Wilson on Nov 22, 2007 10:40 AM CST up reply actions

Concur...

not developing young players = future bad team. Only the Yanks can money-whip a couple big FA's every year and even they have turned from that a little with their young pitching.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Nov 22, 2007 10:42 AM CST up reply actions

There....

are a lot of assumptions in that response. You know what happens when you make an assumption?
See The Long Kiss Goodnight if you don't.

Or.....they could turn that depth into Cabrera and Santana. Probalby not, but you get my point. Hell Miggy alone would be HORRIBLE given his age.

by bdavison94 on Nov 22, 2007 10:46 AM CST up reply actions

You gotta look at the big picture...

if you are a Ranger fan. This team wasn't going to contend for a playoff spot in '08 with or without Hunter, let him weigh down another team (especially one in our division).

And I hope the Angels turn that depth over. Give them the Miggy's and Cabrera's. Hell Miggy will be done in a year or 2 anyway and Cabrera will be 415 lbs. by 2010 and the Angels will be sucked dry of young talent.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Nov 22, 2007 10:53 AM CST up reply actions

I mean't Cabrera....

as Miggy not Tejada. Might have used a nickname that isn't accurate.

Again, I think it's fine that he didn't sign with the Rangers. Letting him go elsewhere is fine. Will it actually weigh down the Angels is the question. Or, will he be the Angels Mike Lowell for their 2010 pennant run?

by bdavison94 on Nov 22, 2007 11:07 AM CST up reply actions

I don't think Hunter's contract will weigh down

the Angels to the extent that it would the Rangers. That's the trouble with this whole idea that the Hunter signing will harm the Angels 3 years from now.

Colbert/Colbert '08

by rooster on Nov 22, 2007 7:31 PM CST up reply actions

Here's the thing...

Does this make the Angels better or worse for 2010 -- which is when, I think, the Rangers can realistically next expect to make some serious noise?

They'll be dealing with the question of whether to move Hunter to a corner. Cabrera will, more likely than not, have left as a free agent. They'll have dealt several players who would be contributors in 2010 to get Cabrera. And they'll be missing some draft picks they could have used to improve.

The Rangers' chances of being in better shape than the Angels in 2010 are enhanced by this move.

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 22, 2007 10:43 AM CST up reply actions

This is the problem.....

I have no idea and neither do you. Is there now a better chance that they'll be out of the picture in 2010/2011? Sure, but what type of pct. do you put on that? 20%? 30%? It's sure as hell not the given that people on here are talking like.

by bdavison94 on Nov 22, 2007 10:50 AM CST up reply actions

either way

whats not to like about the deal? it doesn't make the angels better for 2010 or 2011. everybody basically conceded he would do nothing for the rangers in 2010.

so yeah, its not a given he'll be terrible in 2010 or 2011 but its almost guaranteed that the contract will be an albatross at that time. albatross contracts for any team (no matter how big spenders they are) are going to hurt.

by ab03 on Nov 22, 2007 6:33 PM CST up reply actions

+1

See my post under Adam's Oracle story that explains why this deal bums me out.

In short, the Hunter signing puts more distance between the Rangers and Angels, which could not be said of the GMJ signing. Who knows what their young talent will become or bring back in trade, and Hunter's contract probably won't hinder their payroll decisions in three years to the extent that it would the Rangers, given the LAAAA market.

Colbert/Colbert '08

by rooster on Nov 22, 2007 7:39 PM CST up reply actions

Great News

"On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

by jparks77 on Nov 22, 2007 10:32 AM CST reply actions

really?

didn't see this coming. I think it definately makes this Angels team, also with the addition of Garland, a much stronger team for next year. But, after that - not so much.

by Randy Richardson on Nov 22, 2007 10:34 AM CST reply actions

Good.

I'm happy.

But, this guy was all like I want to play for Wash and I want to play for my 'hometowm' team, and all that crap. And all this while he was still a Twin. What an effing liar. Good riddance that joker is going to the Angels. It's a good fit with all those fake people out there...

And AJM, what's up with all the 'i thinks'? It's 'i know!!!!!'.

"Maybe Brett Garnener will be there so I can beat the shit out of him." - miles

by Longhorn on Nov 22, 2007 10:50 AM CST reply actions

I bet the rangers went six years

90 mil so I will not put down Jonny and Tommy for trying. Lets go get Crisp because that right now is the smartest move.

"I'd need a picture of Jamey with a shotgun saying "This is my Boomstick!" before I could see that one." DJCahill

by NYTXFAN on Nov 22, 2007 11:00 AM CST reply actions

LAA

How much minor league depth do they have outside of Wood and Adenhart?

At this point I think more of their failed prospects than their depth.

by hightowersmith on Nov 22, 2007 11:37 AM CST reply actions

sign

Fukudome!!!! and maybe Cameron

Duncan Hunter for President in '08

by dstar442005 on Nov 22, 2007 12:41 PM CST reply actions

"When the Rangers are ready to compete"

Hilarious.

Where on earth did this myth start that somehow, the Rangers are on some sort of positive track?

Name me one talented player on this team, that isn't trade bait?

Bizzare..

by Sharky on Nov 22, 2007 2:05 PM CST reply actions

BTW

THe last 7 years of losing..were the Rangers rebuilding all those years, also?

by Sharky on Nov 22, 2007 2:24 PM CST up reply actions

Nope.

They were busy throwing millions of dollars away on scrubs like your boy Juangina Gonzalez. The contracts they gave away for washed up vets in their declining years crippled the team, along with a number of really, really stupid moves by John Hart in an effort to "win now".

by Athos on Nov 22, 2007 2:31 PM CST up reply actions

John Hart

More of the blame on John Hart goes on Hicks. Hart never was in the position of a "win now" situation. He was more of a Billy Beane, Terry Ryan guy in Cleveland. He was greatly influenced by Hicks to spend on A-Rod and players past their prime when he came to Texas

by meatbonelefty on Nov 22, 2007 3:31 PM CST reply actions

At the end of Hart's reign in cleveland

he became famous for trading talented youth for crap. He traded away Richie Sexon, Brian Giles, Jeromy Burnitz, and Sean Casey.

To call him a Billy Beane guy is laughable.

"LSB: accept the losing" - Sharky

by DJCahill on Nov 23, 2007 6:37 AM CST up reply actions

Angels

let them win next year...as we've all stated on here, we don't expect to compete for championships for another 2 years...and in 2 years, Vlad, Garrett, Gary Jr. and Torii will all start to wear down. That's a lot of payroll and talent that they depend on. Personally, I'm sad we didn't get Torii, and I don't like seeing him and Gary both in the Angels uni's, but if it's a sacrifice that will pay of when we are ready to compete, so be it. I just hope we're able to find a long-term solution at CF one of these days...

"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Nov 22, 2007 7:47 PM CST reply actions