Why Hunter to the Angels is a good thing

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 22, 2007 9:03 PM CST in News

The Anaheim Angels had a 2007 payroll of $109 million.

They aren't the Yankees. They aren't even the BoSox or the Mets. They are a high payroll team, but not an unlimited payroll team.

Let's assume that the Angels are aggressive, and bump payroll by $10 million per year each of the next three years. That's about $140 million payroll in 2010.

With a $140 million payroll, Torii Hunter and GMJ will combine to take up over 20% of the Angels' payroll.

And that's what we should be concerned about. What happens in 2010. Because 2010 is when the Rangers' should be expecting to be ready to make some serious noise, when we should have Brandon McCarthy and Eric Hurley and Edinson Volquez in the rotation and Chris Davis and Ian Kinsler and Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Taylor Teagarden solidifying the lineup and C.J. Wilson closing games, with a free agent signing or two mixed in.

Does adding Hunter make the Angels better, in 2008, than they would otherwise be? Probably.

Not definitely, because the Angels suddenly have a logjam in the outfield, with Garret Anderson and GMJ and Hunter and Vlad Guerrero and Juan Rivera and Reggie Willits, plus Kendry Morales in the mix for time at DH.

If the Angels decide to go with an Anderson/Hunter/GMJ outfield, with Vlad as the DH, I'm not sure they are really a whole ton better off than they would be leaving GMJ in center and Vlad in right with Juan Rivera or Kendry Morales as the DH.

But regardless, the Angels being better in 2008 doesn't worry me a lot. 2008 should be about rebuilding, 2009 about taking a step forward. 2010 is the target year.

Now, could the Rangers catch lightning in a bottle, have their young players progress and be better, sooner, than expected (like, for example, this year's Rockies)?

Sure. That would be great. But I'm not going to get worked up about the Angels possibly going from a 90 win team to a 92 win team in 2008 because of Hunter.

Instead, I'm happy that the Angels have lost another first round draft pick for signing Hunter, making it harder for them to compete down the road.

I'm happy that this sort of win-now mode could see Howie Kendrick, Nick Adenhart, and Brandon Wood shipped to Florida for Miguel Cabrera -- a great player, but one who seems destined to test the free agent market after the 2009 season. And a player who will get $30 million per year, I would bet.

I'm happy that the Angels will have $18 million per year less to devote to the pursuit of Cabrera, or Johan Santana, or someone of that ilk.

I'm happy that the Angels chose to spend this money on Hunter, instead of devoting it towards the pursuit of Alex Rodriguez.

I'm happy that the Angels will be spending around $30 million per year, combined, in 2010 and 2011 for a guy who will likely be a middling corner outfielder, and another guy who will be a 4th or 5th outfielder.

(And for those suggesting the Angels will just deal GMJ now...he's got a full no-trade clause through 2009).

Hunter to Anaheim came as a shock, but sitting here thinking about it, it makes a lot of sense.

Torii Hunter is the typical Anaheim player. Athletic, good (if somewhat overrated) defense, great clubhouse guy, hits for some average, hits for some power, never walks.

Oh, and past 30 and overpaid. And getting worse, not better.

This deal is going to make it harder for Anaheim to succeed in 2010, when the Rangers should (we all hope) be hitting their stride.

Be happy that this happened. This is, in the long run, a good thing for Texas.

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Comments

LOL

Pretty much sums up this post.

2010, huh? What about the shit lineup?

Thinking adding Torri Hunter to the Angels is a good thing is just stupid. He'll probably rape us every day like Vlad.

by Sharky on Nov 22, 2007 9:05 PM CST reply actions

well

Vlad = .400 OBP
Torii = .330 OBP

plus Vlad has a much better SLG%

"2008 should be about rebuilding, 2009 about taking a step forward. 2010 is the target year." -AJM

by dstar442005 on Nov 22, 2007 9:10 PM CST up reply actions

Also

Did you pick this number out of a hat?

Am I really supposed to believe we're all going to patiently sit through a bunch of losing in 2008 and 2009 to get to, 2010? With hardly any gaurentee of "winning" then? By then all those pittchers will be traded, have broke arms, or it turned out they sucked, more than likely.

Of course you also picked 2010 because that gives you a good scenario to trade Saltalammachia, Blalock and Kinsler, which is what you really want.

People do not have nearly the patience for "rebuilding" projects that they like to put on paper. Although the Rangers are not rebuilding, since they did not do any winning in the first place.

When we're sitting 20 games under in 2008, you're "2010" is going to look like a joke. And Hicks is going to fire everybody or similar. 2010, gimme a break.

by Sharky on Nov 22, 2007 9:10 PM CST up reply actions

Agree

that it is going to be tough for Hicks to "wait" for 2010.

Sharky's the man.

by Agreen07 on Nov 22, 2007 9:22 PM CST up reply actions

Sharky

Isn't it time to make a new "I hate Adam Morris so much" post?

"LSB: accept the losing" - Sharky

by DJCahill on Nov 23, 2007 6:50 AM CST up reply actions

greatness AJM

"2008 should be about rebuilding, 2009 about taking a step forward. 2010 is the target year." -AJM

new signature

Duncan Hunter for President in '08

by dstar442005 on Nov 22, 2007 9:07 PM CST reply actions

Just shorten it too

"LSB: accept the losing"

The Rangers have done everything you wanted, and now you gloat about how awful they are.

by Sharky on Nov 22, 2007 9:12 PM CST up reply actions

BTW

I'm not sure how many times I've asked this but, what, exactly, are we rebuilding from?

Dont you have to win in the first place to "rebuild"?

It's so arrogant the way you guys talk about "rebuilding"

by Sharky on Nov 22, 2007 9:17 PM CST up reply actions

Touche.

by Agreen07 on Nov 22, 2007 9:23 PM CST up reply actions

Shark

you've got to understand that we have a new GM the past two years. He has nothing to do with what took place previously. Stop living in the past.

"2008 should be about rebuilding, 2009 about taking a step forward. 2010 is the target year." -AJM

by dstar442005 on Nov 22, 2007 9:23 PM CST up reply actions

Well we shouldn't call it rebuilding

we should call it building. Our franchise has won 0 playoff series. Rebuilding implies we were once good. We have never been good.

by Agreen07 on Nov 22, 2007 9:26 PM CST up reply actions

I agree with

both of you, Its got to be Thanksgiving, Brett and Sharky redeemed themselves in one night.

by corbsclinton on Nov 23, 2007 12:03 AM CST up reply actions

Yes

for one year at least. I think we could maybe reach .500 this year, that's not awful is it?

"2008 should be about rebuilding, 2009 about taking a step forward. 2010 is the target year." -AJM

by dstar442005 on Nov 22, 2007 9:21 PM CST up reply actions

I agree

but if Hunter can help them win anothter world series. Who cares if they'll be declining from 2010 on, they want to win now and by signing Hunter it helps them win now. If the Rangers signed Hunter to that contract on the other hand, then that would be idiotic.
Adam, you think the Rangers will still try to go the FA route now that Hunter is gone, or are they going to try to trade for a CF? Personally, I think they snag Jones.

by sprite on Nov 22, 2007 9:10 PM CST reply actions

I think they will either

A. Trade for Coco Crisp and get a stopgap 1B, probably Broussard.

B. Sign Mike Cameron and Fukudome, let Cat play first.

C. Sign Mike Cameron and Scott Podsednik. Podsednik because it would be embarrasing for JD to have the Opening Day lineup reflect no changes in the offseason.

I'm in favor of either B or C.

Does anyone else think that JD knew the Angels were interested the whole time and just drove up the price for him? If so, he is my hero:)

"2008 should be about rebuilding, 2009 about taking a step forward. 2010 is the target year." -AJM

by dstar442005 on Nov 22, 2007 9:19 PM CST up reply actions

All those players

Suck.

by Sharky on Nov 22, 2007 9:21 PM CST up reply actions

prove it

"2008 should be about rebuilding, 2009 about taking a step forward. 2010 is the target year." -AJM

by dstar442005 on Nov 22, 2007 9:21 PM CST up reply actions

Sharky is right

Why don't you prove that they don't suck.

by Agreen07 on Nov 22, 2007 9:23 PM CST up reply actions

suck

is relative. They wouldn't stink relative to the contracts they would be getting. Cam can hit 20 HR's and has a healthy OBP for cheap. Fukudome doesn't. Pods wouldn't be bad on a small contract; he can steal and has a respectable OBP.

"2008 should be about rebuilding, 2009 about taking a step forward. 2010 is the target year." -AJM

by dstar442005 on Nov 22, 2007 9:27 PM CST up reply actions

Podsednik blows

He's useless.

I'd rather see Nelson Cruz starting in the OF next year than Podsednik.

Or Fab 5 Freddy Guzman.

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 22, 2007 9:30 PM CST up reply actions

well

I never said Pods would start. I just said he would be here.
Pods would only get playing time while Cameron serves his steroid suspension.

"2008 should be about rebuilding, 2009 about taking a step forward. 2010 is the target year." -AJM

by dstar442005 on Nov 22, 2007 9:34 PM CST up reply actions

by the by

is Coco Crisp really THAT much better than Pods? No

"2008 should be about rebuilding, 2009 about taking a step forward. 2010 is the target year." -AJM

by dstar442005 on Nov 22, 2007 9:57 PM CST up reply actions

Yes

by sprite on Nov 22, 2007 10:00 PM CST up reply actions

no

"2008 should be about rebuilding, 2009 about taking a step forward. 2010 is the target year." -AJM

by dstar442005 on Nov 22, 2007 10:08 PM CST up reply actions

Yes

They don't even play the same position.

Crisp is a great defensive CF'er.

Podsednik is a sub-par defensive LF'er.

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 22, 2007 10:24 PM CST up reply actions

no

since when does defense matter?

and he has played center: http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/P/Scott-Podsednik.shtml

"2008 should be about rebuilding, 2009 about taking a step forward. 2010 is the target year." -AJM

by dstar442005 on Nov 22, 2007 10:26 PM CST up reply actions

Ok

"since when does defense matter?" ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I'm speechless.

by sprite on Nov 22, 2007 10:29 PM CST up reply actions

Here is

the priority list:

Pitching
Hitting

.
.
.
.
..
.
.
.
.
.
.
3. Defense

"2008 should be about rebuilding, 2009 about taking a step forward. 2010 is the target year." -AJM

by dstar442005 on Nov 22, 2007 10:36 PM CST up reply actions

Well...

he cant hit so there ya go

by chase1971 on Nov 22, 2007 11:27 PM CST up reply actions

Definitely

I'd much, much rather see Crisp and Cruz in CF and RF than anyone else discussed. Then go get Crawford for LF and keep focusing on pitching.

As for defense mattering, it is bundled with pitching. Good defense + good pitching = runs prevented. Good hitting = runs created. Have to minimize the first, try to maximize the latter.

One distinct reason top line pitchers don't sit up nights wishing they were Rangers (and never have) is the lack of good defense here. Ballpark? Sure but both teams have to play in it.

We need power at 1B, DH and 3B, overall goodness at 2B (Kinsler), and MY a perfect 2-holer (no outhouse joke intended). Then let the arms go to work. The only place that preference list is flawed might be if Cruz doesn't generate the power and OBP I truly expect. And even he is a three to six year window, starting so late (age). Please let Beltre be all he's thought to be by those scouts that think so.

Patience, no whining, no crying in baseball OK?

'At Georgia Southern, we don't cheat. That costs money and we don't have any.' Erk Russell / Georgia Southern

by Ed Coffin on Nov 22, 2007 11:49 PM CST up reply actions

This is a dumb column

Plain and simple. It's dumb. It's misguided. It's flat wrong.

Regardless what they paid, the Angels just added more talent while the Rangers did nothing.

The Angels have a lot of big contracts and talent, and the Rangers have little of either because we're trapped in a cycle of losing.

by Sharky on Nov 22, 2007 9:15 PM CST reply actions

Oh no,

is it Shark week on the discovery channel again?

by sprite on Nov 22, 2007 9:19 PM CST up reply actions

chone figgins

Our new centerfielder. You heard it here first.

"I don't even like myself."-Brett Gardner 11/19

by miles on Nov 22, 2007 9:22 PM CST reply actions

or Reggie Willits :)

"2008 should be about rebuilding, 2009 about taking a step forward. 2010 is the target year." -AJM

by dstar442005 on Nov 22, 2007 9:24 PM CST up reply actions

How?

by Agreen07 on Nov 22, 2007 9:24 PM CST up reply actions

Rev the fag

said Rivera Figgins and Willits are gonners.

"I don't even like myself."-Brett Gardner 11/19

by miles on Nov 22, 2007 9:28 PM CST up reply actions

who?

"2008 should be about rebuilding, 2009 about taking a step forward. 2010 is the target year." -AJM

by dstar442005 on Nov 22, 2007 9:34 PM CST up reply actions

The sb

Nation guy for the angels, he's an a hole.

"I don't even like myself."-Brett Gardner 11/19

by miles on Nov 22, 2007 9:39 PM CST up reply actions

Rising Attendance

Here are some interesting numbers on the attendance for the Angels:

2001 - ranked 20th with 2,000,919
2002 - ranked 16th with 2,305,547
2003 - ranked 5th with 3,061,094
2004 - ranked 3rd with 3,375,677
2005 - ranked 4th with 3,404,686
2006 - ranked 5th with 3,406,790
2007 - ranked 5th with 3,365,632

The Angels have had healthy attendance over the past seven years, and there is no reason to think that this will suddenly change. They are still the best team in the AL West, and should remain so for the next two years. I really don't see this deal as hurting the Angels as much as some. That is unless they add another veteran.

by Excel Hearts Choi on Nov 22, 2007 9:24 PM CST reply actions

They

Are raising attendance next year, the Angels

"I don't even like myself."-Brett Gardner 11/19

by miles on Nov 22, 2007 9:27 PM CST up reply actions

How do we get

figgins on our team?

by Agreen07 on Nov 22, 2007 9:29 PM CST up reply actions

Laird

"I don't even like myself."-Brett Gardner 11/19

by miles on Nov 22, 2007 9:32 PM CST up reply actions

i cant see

the angels trading him within the div.

by Agreen07 on Nov 22, 2007 9:46 PM CST up reply actions

No

That doesn't make sense.

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 22, 2007 9:53 PM CST up reply actions

very insightful AJM

"I'd need a picture of Jamey with a shotgun saying "This is my Boomstick!" before I could see that one." DJCahill

by NYTXFAN on Nov 22, 2007 9:30 PM CST reply actions

I'm happy

when my 10 year old absolutely rakes while taking hitting lessons from a former major leaguer

I'm happy when I get a new client for my business

I'm happy when my grandsons' spend holidays at our home

I'm happy when my wife's happy

I'm not happy when the best team in the AL West just got better for conceivably the next 2 to 3 years or so

I wouldn't have gone more than 5/75, so I'm not upset at not getting the player, but I find it difficult to be happy that the Angels did. Ambivalent, yes. Happy? No.

by ncrangerman on Nov 22, 2007 9:57 PM CST reply actions

Me too....

I'm not upset that the Angels signed Hunter. A little annoyed is a good way to put it. I mean it's not going to be much fun tell Angels fans, "YOU JUST WAIT UNTIL 2010 BITCH!".

Happy? That's just dumb. Way to much is going to change between now and then to be happy about this.

by bdavison94 on Nov 22, 2007 10:04 PM CST up reply actions

yes

but it makes Angels fans mad to see us saying that we are happy so just go along with it. ok?

"2008 should be about rebuilding, 2009 about taking a step forward. 2010 is the target year." -AJM

by dstar442005 on Nov 22, 2007 10:10 PM CST up reply actions

Hmmm.....

Let me give it a try then.

YEAH! OH HAPPY DAY! I'm so pumped that the Angels just made their team better the next 2 years. I'm excited that they'll be able to flip some of their extra players and prospect depth for even more good players! THIS IS AWESOME! 2010! 2010! 2010!

by bdavison94 on Nov 22, 2007 10:16 PM CST up reply actions

good job!

"2008 should be about rebuilding, 2009 about taking a step forward. 2010 is the target year." -AJM

by dstar442005 on Nov 22, 2007 10:27 PM CST up reply actions

I don't do signatures

but if I did, THAT would be awesome

by ncrangerman on Nov 22, 2007 10:30 PM CST up reply actions

Well, we knew the Angels were going to ...

bring in an impact bat this offseason. Personally, I'm glad they brought in Hunter and not a much better player like ARod. This contract is going to be a major liability by the time the Rangers are ready to compete for the division. That's something to be encouraged about even if you can't say you're "happy."

by Athos on Nov 23, 2007 8:44 AM CST up reply actions

Arod

Also would have cost about three times as much.

Do you really think his marginal production improvement over Hunter would be worth it? Along with the fact Arod plays a corner defensive position (and not well).

BTW, why isn't Arod declining..isn't he 32? Shouldn't all the projections have him declining quite a lot I mean hell..how many 36 year old not named Barry Bonds are even decent? Arod is contracted to 42.

by Sharky on Nov 23, 2007 8:48 AM CST up reply actions

It is true

For the next couple years, Arod may, probably will, be more of a force..

But as an overall contract, the Arod deal is much, much worse.

by Sharky on Nov 23, 2007 8:49 AM CST up reply actions

A declining ARod will still probably be worth a ..

.900+ OPS. Hunter, by the end of this deal, will be struggling to top .700. Yeah, I'd say that's worth an extra $9m per year.

by Athos on Nov 23, 2007 8:56 AM CST up reply actions

Not really

No, not really.

Especially seeing as, you're paying Arod 28,+ for seasons 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42.

Arod wasn't even the best offensive player in baseball last year. Ortiz was better, at 13m.

by Sharky on Nov 23, 2007 8:59 AM CST up reply actions

Umm ...

not according to VORP.

T.R. -- enough is enough.

by inactive lsb user on Nov 23, 2007 11:46 AM CST up reply actions

Refering

to bdavison94 on the JUST WAIT TO 2010 quote

by ncrangerman on Nov 22, 2007 10:33 PM CST reply actions

here it is

Max Ramirez for Coco Crisp.

That is what will happen.

"2008 should be about rebuilding, 2009 about taking a step forward. 2010 is the target year." -AJM

by dstar442005 on Nov 22, 2007 11:32 PM CST reply actions

oh yea

along with Gerald Laird

"2008 should be about rebuilding, 2009 about taking a step forward. 2010 is the target year." -AJM

by dstar442005 on Nov 22, 2007 11:34 PM CST up reply actions

Your version

of stream of consciousness = diarrhea.

T.R. -- enough is enough.

by inactive lsb user on Nov 22, 2007 11:50 PM CST up reply actions

+1

a lot of poo.

by Agreen07 on Nov 23, 2007 10:19 AM CST up reply actions

Good post

Totally agree Adam. The $25MM/yr combination of Hunter and GMJ for the next several years should be a good thing for you guys. I'm interested to see if they do try and move Matthews and how much money they'll end up eating.

On a slightly related note, I am quite glad the White Sox didn't manage to try and trump the Angels offer. Too bad that also seals our fate that Rowand is coming back at $15MM per to go with a $19MM reliever who is slowly descending into bad. Or of course Kenny will send someone like Gio or Egbert to Anaheim for Matthews straight up because he is a "bargain" now in the current market. I hate my 4th place team.

by krushcuts on Nov 22, 2007 11:35 PM CST reply actions

I'm happy

that this happened.

T.R. -- enough is enough.

by inactive lsb user on Nov 22, 2007 11:52 PM CST reply actions

how exactly

is torii hunter getting worse?

his OPS+ the last 4 years: 104, 106, 112, 122

by kumar75150 on Nov 23, 2007 4:11 AM CST reply actions

LSB bizzaro world

Everybody they dont like over thirty (or under, for that matter) is "declining".

But those players they do like over 30 (Manny Ramirez, Arod, Cameron) are not declining. Or if they are, it's explained away, or simply not mentioned.

It's kind of a corrolary to the meaningless defensive thing. AKA, players they like are always defensive studs, while those they dont are poor defensivly, since that's unprovable.

by Sharky on Nov 23, 2007 8:17 AM CST up reply actions

Oh yeah

And the human beings who observe the defensive stats, are biased. It's basically what somebody thinks. As such, a guy like Arod always ranks high, it's a joke. A grounder rolls through Arod's or Carlos Beltran's zone..the viewer simply doesn't mark it..Arod is still flawless on defense according to his recordkeeping..

by Sharky on Nov 23, 2007 8:21 AM CST up reply actions

This differs from something like a base hit..

Because there is no objective confirmation of what just happened, so nobody is the wiser.

by Sharky on Nov 23, 2007 8:24 AM CST up reply actions

What a joke

How can you be so confident three years in the future? You're not a fortune teller. You'll probably be saying "just wait until 2013" when it's 2010. Quit being such a sabermetrician and look at reality for once instead of diving too deep into the numbers and trying to pull a positive out of this, and a small positive as it is...

The #1 Passive Texas Rangers Fan

by aggierangerfan00 on Nov 23, 2007 9:08 AM CST reply actions

yep

he's an Aggie. "Don't pay attention to numbers!! Just follow your feelings!!!"

"2008 should be about rebuilding, 2009 about taking a step forward. 2010 is the target year." -AJM

by dstar442005 on Nov 23, 2007 9:44 AM CST up reply actions

Are there really any numbers that prove

our prospects will be good in the pros? The answer is no. See DVD aka the saviors for proof.

by Agreen07 on Nov 23, 2007 10:20 AM CST up reply actions

Exactly !!

Candy coating the loss of a star player like Torii Hunter is ridiculous. The Rangers could ill afford to lose him to the Angels. Trust me the Angels aren't going to fall apart after 2010 they will continue to do what it takes to win. The Rangers will continue to do what it takes to lose.
Once again big daddy falls short on his bids. Would the extra 2 or 3 million a year of killed him - you'll easily lose that $$ in attendance as this team stinks up the American Leage again. YES it looks like AJM WILL be saying in 2010 oh 3 more years 3 MORE YEARS and we can compete !! HOW EXCITING !!!

" From my and the organizations perspective we regard Sammy as a success. We want him back" Jon Daniels

by LAMuscleFag on Nov 23, 2007 1:37 PM CST up reply actions

Typical responses from a fan of a losing team

"Hey, we may not be getting better but the other teams are eventually going to get worse.....I hope."

"Let them be good now and we'll show them how it's done in 3 or 4 years".......just look at our track record of developing talent.....oh wait.

"Let them spend all that big money on over-rated players because that will keep them from spending money in the future"........even though it hasn't stopped them up to this point (i.e. Erstad and GMJ)

Oh Man!!!!

by SwiperNoSwiping on Nov 23, 2007 10:32 AM CST reply actions