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Some of my thoughts on the deal

Huh.  Christmas Eve, 2006, DVD gets broken up, with John Danks going to the ChiSox.

362 days later, the V gets dealt.  Obviously, the Rangers front office doesn't shut down early for the holidays.

I was involved in a discussion earlier today on the NMLR board, in a thread where a poster suggested a Volquez and Teagarden for Hamilton trade, which I was against.  It led to an email exchange, where I was asked if I'd do Volquez for Hamilton straight up.

My response:

Probably not, although I'd think about it.  It may be that I'm just too burned by the Steve Howe experience.  

If I thought there was a 0% chance (or close to that) of him falling off the wagon, I'd probably do Hamilton for Volquez.

This is, like the D-Rays swap of Delmon Young for Matt Garza, a classic need for need trade...the Reds have lots of nice outfielders, particularly with Jay Bruce on the cusp, and need arms.  The Rangers have lots of quality young arms, but desperately need quality in the outfield, particularly centerfield.

I have to think that Hamilton will be the Rangers' regular centerfielder.  Hamilton was awful against lefties in 2007, but you don't give up Volquez to pick up a 26 year old centerfielder who is going to platoon.  

Milton Bradley will be playing everyday (when he's healthy), presumably at right field, although he may have to start at DH.

That leaves left field, and either DH or RF (depending on how quickly Milton Bradley comes back from the ACL tear), to be divvied up.  You've got five candidates -- Marlon Byrd, Frank Catalanotto, Jason Botts, David Murphy, and Nelson Cruz -- and presumably only three roster spots, since Chris Shelton, Ramon Vazquez, and Gerald Laird will be filling three bench roles.

I'd be fine with a Byrd/Cat platoon in left field, Botts at DH, and Murphy in AAA until someone gets hurt, although I have a sneaking suspicion that this move may spell the end of Jason Botts' time with the Rangers, which would disappoint me.

If the Rangers don't think Bradley will be ready to play RF to start the year, you end up with Murphy in RF, a Cat/Byrd platoon in LF, and Bradley DHing, although you could send Murphy down, keep Botts and platoon him in LF with Cat, and have Byrd play regularly in RF until Bradley is ready.

But I wouldn't be surprised if, at some point over the next few days, we see that Botts or Cruz has been DFA'd, with the Rangers trying to run them through waivers, or else dealt.  

I saw a suggestion elsewhere that this is the Rangers "giving up" on Edinson Volquez, which reminds me of the claims last winter that the Rangers "gave up" on John Danks.  I didn't buy that argument then, and I don't buy it now.  I think this is the Rangers giving up someone they really like to get someone else they really like, that fills an immediate need.

I also think that you're going to see one of the broken pitchers picked up on a one year, incentive laden deal, at some point in the next month.  Bartolo Colon, Jason Jennings, Fat Freddy Garcia...someone like that, on a one year deal, picked up to fill out the rotation and to give Eric Hurley a little more time before he has to step into the rotation.

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I hate the deal
oops... I don't hate.

I dislike the deal.

Merry Christmas

by hurlerhurley on Dec 21, 2007 8:41 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Me too
I am in on the deal.  I like Edinson, I just don't think he is ever going to throw enough strikes.  He has the arm.

by the other dierk in dallas on Dec 21, 2007 8:46 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Opps
meant to reply to the one above it

by the other dierk in dallas on Dec 21, 2007 8:47 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

have another drink
it's on me
Merry Christmas

by hurlerhurley on Dec 21, 2007 9:11 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Thanks,
I appreciate the hell out of that!

by the other dierk in dallas on Dec 21, 2007 9:43 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Botts is going to be the
odd man out. And why have Shelton on the bench? If Broussard plays first, Shelton is released or in OKC.
The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws. ~Rick Wise, 1974

by RangerMad on Dec 21, 2007 7:00 PM CST   0 recs

shelton
can't go to okc without clearing waivers first

i think the big reason they got him was as an insurance policy if they couldnt get broussard

Can you please Look into getting a less funny signature? That's sarcasm, btw. - Sharky

by rentz on Dec 21, 2007 7:03 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Because
Shelton has some bat and he's somewhat versatile defensively.  He's a great bench player.

by brettgardner on Dec 21, 2007 7:03 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I'm assuming...
...Broussard and Shelton would platoon...

If not, Shelton would probably be replaced with Murphy.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 21, 2007 7:30 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

heres a Josh Hamilton information tidbit ...

he throws a mid 90s fastball..well he does have
a good arm on him doesn't he?
"Take this offer and shove it !!" Hunter,Gagne, Jones, Fuku

by LAMuscleFag on Dec 21, 2007 7:06 PM CST   0 recs

Hamilton
He had 7 OF assists in 90 games last year, and his Range Factor in both center and right was above-average. From everything I've heard, he's a very good defensive outfielder.

I hate to lose Volquez, but Hamilton is an impressive player in his own right, and has just as much, if not more, upside.

"Then I met some friends for a beer, went to a BoDeans's concert, and son of a vondruke, if I didn't leave him at the concert hall."

by RCCook on Dec 21, 2007 7:09 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Bleh....
RC, Range Factor sucks.

Req

by Requiem on Dec 21, 2007 8:25 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Hamilton's Defense
How about PMOR?
http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/023939.php

The Reds had an above CF and Hamilton was above average in CF by PMOR.

I have a good friend that is a Reds fan and he is sorry to see Hamilton go. He told me that Josh has great wheels in CF and is exciting to watch. Will probably become a fan favorite.

Heh, he did add that watching Griffey in CF does make lots of guys look good out there, but he felt good about Hamilton's defense.

by Brandon Wilson on Dec 21, 2007 9:32 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Don't know...
it's likely better than Range Factor.... Heck, almost everything is better than RF... My only beef is using RF to judge a player's defense. It's almost as bad as using fielding pct. IMO.

Req

by Requiem on Dec 22, 2007 2:07 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Bartolo
would be the best pitcher to pickup...  Fat Freddy isn't good and was in the NL, Jason Jennings played for the Astros...

Colon could have a bounceback year and knows the division like the back of his hand...

Can't wait for Brett Michael's Rock of Love II...

by miles on Dec 21, 2007 7:10 PM CST   0 recs

prior
I'd probably rather gamble with Prior.  

by JKolar on Dec 21, 2007 7:16 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

That doesn't do you any good
if Adam is correct in thinking the purpose would be to give Hurley more time.  Prior isn't expected to be ready to go right away is he?
Tomorrow Never Knows

by t ball on Dec 21, 2007 8:51 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Nope...
and I think the Rangers are out of the bidding for him for just that reason. By the time he is healthy Hurley would be ready, would not make much sense.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Dec 21, 2007 10:17 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

The fact of the matter
is that we could have a pretty fair team next season if Bradley doe not fall apart or go crazy, Hamilton stays clean and Padilla starts taking his meds.

If not we will have no worse than what we expected this team to be anyway.

by rldwb on Dec 21, 2007 7:26 PM CST   0 recs

Bill James projection for Hamilton
.305/.382/.598

Let that sink in. Then remember that this is a good defensive CF.

LF platoon = Catalanatto and Byrd. CaTyrd for short?

by tricer on Dec 21, 2007 7:35 PM CST   0 recs

That's
Insane. And it hasn't even sunk in yet.
"When I was a pup, we got spanked by presidents 'til the cows came home! Grover Cleveland spanked me on two non-consecutive occasions!" LBrooks

by WyoRanger on Dec 21, 2007 7:37 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, but...
It is based on so small a sample size, he might as well be using a Ouija board...

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 21, 2007 7:38 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

That was genuinely funny!
Good job.
I own a lot of Apple stock,so buy more iPhones!

by Ajax on Dec 21, 2007 9:21 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

And to think
It was just a couple of days ago when everyone was kicking around Juan Pierre roaming center field.

by B_Black on Dec 21, 2007 8:17 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

i think
with juan pierre you KNOW what you're gonna get.

and that's a .300 average, 10 triples and 50 stolen bases. he never strikes out, but other than singles and the occasional triple, he can't hit.

hamilton has lotsa upside.  not sure what you can get with him.  

if we're lucky, a .290 average and 30 homers.

Al Gore 2008 http://www.myspace.com/igotsculture

by gossamer on Dec 21, 2007 8:21 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

To me you know what you're going to get
He's a ridiculous talent and he showed that. What you don't know is his health and whether he can stay on the field. But he will hit, I don't doubt that for a second.

BTW, I hear he has some wheels which makes him all the more important for us because of the large dimensions of our park. I hope he has the instincts to go along with it.

by slimshadty12 on Dec 22, 2007 6:57 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

and to think a couple of months ago
several months back...

nobody wanted to give of Volquez

Merry Christmas

by hurlerhurley on Dec 21, 2007 8:45 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Dammit!
I take one day and swear I won't check the intertubes so I can get crap done before X-mas, and look what I miss?

I guess I like the deal, but I liked Edinson. And I'm going to beat senseless the first Reds writer that calls him Edison.

"When I was a pup, we got spanked by presidents 'til the cows came home! Grover Cleveland spanked me on two non-consecutive occasions!" LBrooks

by WyoRanger on Dec 21, 2007 7:36 PM CST   0 recs

damn
this does hurt. Volquez did everything the Rangers asked of him. Went back to A ball and battled back with some fairly nasty numbers.

just damn, nothing more...

if you apologize for everything, you apologize for nothing...

by Longhorn on Dec 21, 2007 7:40 PM CST   0 recs

From a read or two on Reds boards
Edinson might get his payoff, they figure he'll start, and in the NL Central at that.  I hope he does well.
'At Georgia Southern, we don't cheat. That costs money and we don't have any.' Erk Russell / Georgia Southern

by Ed Coffin on Dec 21, 2007 8:35 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

just double damn
nothing more...

eom...

Merry Christmas

by hurlerhurley on Dec 21, 2007 8:47 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Also
i think Jamey and JD are pretty good friends.
if you apologize for everything, you apologize for nothing...

by Longhorn on Dec 21, 2007 7:48 PM CST   0 recs

Jamey said
he wouldn't want to trade away Volquez for Hamilton.
Merry Christmas

by hurlerhurley on Dec 21, 2007 8:50 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Not really ...
Jamey said he wouldn't trade Volquez and and Teagarden for Hamilton.  Jamey never said anything about Volquez straight up other than the Reds could do better.  

I bet Jamey thinks it's a great trade for the Rangers based on his opinion of Hamilton's worth.

by northtexan95 on Dec 21, 2007 9:06 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

you are correct
he did mention TT in on that.

Still, I'm a rather shocked we got rid of Volquez.

Anyway, thanks for the correction.

Merry Christmas

by hurlerhurley on Dec 21, 2007 9:15 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

This could make
a big difference with our team.  We now have a pretty damn good CF and about 25-30 HR's if healthy, and now it pretty much forces us to give Bartolo a shot.  What if he is has a comeback year and the Rangers git a little bit of luck?

by the other dierk in dallas on Dec 21, 2007 8:28 PM CST   0 recs

Don't Like It
I think Cincy did a great job of selling high.  This guy has major baggage.

by Kyle Mc on Dec 21, 2007 8:29 PM CST   0 recs

If he stays sober
he also is a big time defensive CF who hits like a COF.
"As of now they're (The Astros) world series favorites. Period." - Sharky

by DJCahill on Dec 21, 2007 8:33 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

The guy
has BIG time power capability.

by the other dierk in dallas on Dec 21, 2007 8:40 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Yep
The possibility of having a center fielder who hits .300 with 30 HR and a .370-380 OBP is pretty enticing. Giving up Volquez sucks, but he's just as much a risk as Hamilton, and I think having Hurley and Harrison on the way made this a much easier deal to make.

Plus Hamilton is under the Rangers' control for five more seasons (his age 27-31 years) and gives the team a potential middle-of-the-order bat at a premium defensive position.

JD is making a real effort to add young talent with high upside- Salty, Andrus, Beltre, Kiker, Beavan, Main, and now Hamilton- and those are the kinds of players who, if they pan out, can form the nucleus of a championship ballclub. And even if they don't pan out, they often make for great trade chips.

"Then I met some friends for a beer, went to a BoDeans's concert, and son of a vondruke, if I didn't leave him at the concert hall."

by RCCook on Dec 21, 2007 8:49 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Rangers control...
him for 5 more years. This has to be why JD was willing to give up EV. If he hits big on this deal you have a huge piece to the puzzle for the future. I really hate seeing EV go and personally I wouldn't have made this deal, but I hope I'm wrong and it works out. Stay clean Josh, and good luck Edinson.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Dec 21, 2007 10:22 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

The thing is
I'm not sure how long he will stay in CF. He's not that fast and has a decent arm, i guess...

He better hit and continue to hit...

if you apologize for everything, you apologize for nothing...

by Longhorn on Dec 21, 2007 9:01 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

speed
based on what I've heard and read he has more speed than you suggest.

by Brandon Wilson on Dec 21, 2007 9:37 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

If I remember correctly,
JD said in a radio interview this evening that Hamilton has maybe the 3rd best arm in the outfield.
The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws. ~Rick Wise, 1974

by RangerMad on Dec 21, 2007 9:40 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

sober???
Maybe you should say... if he stays drug free.

Hell, he was addicted to cocaine and crack and every drug on the street.  "It got so bad at the end that I just started smoking (crack). I did it so much it was like smoking cigarettes," Hamilton says.

Hopefully he want try to commit suicide again and overdose with pills.

Hell, lets hope he doesn't decide to jump off a building in Dallas. However, he does have a good choice.

Lets see if he wants to jump. Go for the Bank of America Plaza, Renaissance Tower, Bank One Center or Chase Tower. Happy jumping, Josh.

Merry Christmas

by hurlerhurley on Dec 21, 2007 9:02 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Heaven forbid
You ever fall down in your life in any way. I'm not saying the guy's a saint or anything, but he's come back personally and professionally in a big way. Maybe you need to go test out the rooftop on one of those bulidings and let us know how it goes.
There's one word that describes baseball - `You never know.' - Joaquin Andujar

by jbooth17 on Dec 21, 2007 9:21 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

+ 1

Josh Hamilton should be applauded on making such a wonderful comeback not made fun of. None of us are infallible - it could happen to you. Let's give credit where it's due  his story is pretty amazing.
"Take this offer and shove it !!" Hunter,Gagne, Jones, Fuku

by LAMuscleFag on Dec 21, 2007 10:44 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

what a retard
Drug addiction like his is a disease. Not really a joking matter.  At least not if the joke isn't funny.

by hubcityraider on Dec 22, 2007 1:32 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

It's a weakness
Not a disease.  Parkinson's is a disease.  MS is a disease.  It's not a disease if the only thing you have to do to "cure" it is to stop doing it.  
Oh Man!!!!

by SwiperNoSwiping on Dec 22, 2007 7:31 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

you clearly
have no interaction or have never come up against addiction.

consider yourself lucky.

by knockoutking24 on Dec 22, 2007 10:09 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Sure I have
Not me personally but I know those that have.  I imagine there are few people that don't at least know someone that has.  

I didn't say it was easy to beat because it is a huge struggle every day but it can be beaten if the person has it in them to do something about it.  Actual diseases can't.  

Then of course there is the part where the person chose to get involved with drugs in the first place but that's a whole other discussion.

Oh Man!!!!

by SwiperNoSwiping on Dec 22, 2007 10:24 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

clearly
you havent.

and clearly you have no interaction with anyone who has had any major issues with addiction...either that or you just dont give a shit about them.

yes, as with 99% of the things we do are a choice.

by knockoutking24 on Dec 22, 2007 10:33 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

You
really know nothing about addiction.  You do realize that it's a chemical as well as physical change to your body right?  It is literally impossible to stop without serious and drawn-out treatment.  Addiction is something completely different than recreational use, and so your simplistic "just stop doing it" is really as repugnant as it is ignorant.

by brettgardner on Dec 22, 2007 11:25 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Damn.
Tip of the cap to you.

by brettgardner on Dec 22, 2007 11:58 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

You're
A fucking moron. I don't care if this post gets deleted or my privileges get pulled since I called you that. You don't know a damn thing about a damn thing. Alcoholism (and other addictive traits) have genetic tendacies. It's not a choice; it's a struggle for some, others no struggle. Addictions are both physical and mental. That's no excuse for addicts, but it's a fact. That's why recovering addicts are always "addicts", because that's a part of them that never leaves. They have to deal with that everyday. The same way someone with MS or Parkinsons has to deal with it.
"When I was a pup, we got spanked by presidents 'til the cows came home! Grover Cleveland spanked me on two non-consecutive occasions!" LBrooks

by WyoRanger on Dec 22, 2007 11:41 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

its not his fault
there was a south park that dealt with how alcoholism shouldn't be treated like a disease because it makes it sound like the user has no control or culpability.
we all love south park!

anyway, its just semantics.  weakness, disease - who cares.  he's probably kicked the chemical dependency (since it's been like 2 years) but he still mentally probably has to try really hard not to use.  it is what it is.  

by ab03 on Dec 22, 2007 11:54 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I know you were using his arguments against him...
But Parkinson (at least) and MS are quite a bit different than drug addiction.

In the latter, there is at least SOME DECENT possibility of getting back to a place where you lead a normal life.

In Parkinson (I haven't dealt with MS so I don't know enough details), it's a slow deterioration where it takes significantly-risky medical procedures to even APPROACH a normal life.

In drug addiction, you are using the drug to reach a state of consciousness better than normal life (at least at the start). With Parkinson, you just degrade into a state in which your life eventually is a living nightmare.

With drug addiction, through proper support and a significant change in will-power and nature, you can beat it. With Parkinson's, there is no such thing.

Thankfully, there are treatments for both out there, though Parkinson doesn't currently have anything which will "cure" the afflicted.

Anyways, just thought you guys might like to know something more to depress you (as if being a Ranger's fan doesn't depress you enough).

Req

by Requiem on Dec 22, 2007 11:55 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

dude
that's pretty f-ed up right there...
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Dec 22, 2007 10:09 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

a decent risk
though I share your concern.  Good defense and a strong lefty bat in CF is a bigtime plus in RBIA.  
Tomorrow Never Knows

by t ball on Dec 21, 2007 8:53 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Thanks J D for the wonderful ..

Christmas present ! He's exactly what we needed !

"Take this offer and shove it !!" Hunter,Gagne, Jones, Fuku

by LAMuscleFag on Dec 21, 2007 8:43 PM CST   0 recs

and that was even BEFORE...

I heard about the size 19 shoes :)
"Take this offer and shove it !!" Hunter,Gagne, Jones, Fuku

by LAMuscleFag on Dec 21, 2007 8:45 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

he's gonna be a new fan favorite
with the ladies, for sure
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball

by willamos2 on Dec 21, 2007 9:01 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

yeah... it must be all those tattoos
on his arms.

How attractive!

Merry Christmas

by hurlerhurley on Dec 21, 2007 9:08 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

slow down,
he's married.  With a saint for a wife.
Tomorrow Never Knows

by t ball on Dec 21, 2007 9:11 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Anybody else...
Who does not care about his previous drug problems?

They dont worry me one bit. As long as he rakes I dont care.

Hell he could do drugs all he wants, as long as he continues to rake.

by SaltyGoesYard on Dec 21, 2007 9:08 PM CST   0 recs

What was the nature..
of Hamilton's injury last year?

by TedFord on Dec 21, 2007 9:43 PM CST   0 recs

x
Wrist and also some immune system thing?
Can't wait for Brett Michael's Rock of Love II...

by miles on Dec 21, 2007 9:54 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

yea
he had gastroenteritis
"Dwyade is to basketball what the 40 is to the Rangers." -thedirkatron

by coolaid on Dec 21, 2007 9:56 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Baseball America's take
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/majors/news/264581.html

[blockquote]There's plenty to like for the Rangers here. Texas turned a pitcher who has overstayed his welcome into a potential impact middle-of-the-order bat who fills one of their bigger needs.

For the Reds, it's a more risky move since they're gambling on being able to turn Volquez into a solid member of the big league rotation, something the Rangers failed to do in six years. But at the same time, in one year the Reds turned a $50,000 investment in Hamilton into a potential member of their starting rotation. By dealing away Hamilton, they trade away a rather injury-prone player from a position of strength to fill a clear need at another position.[/blockquote]

by Brandon Wilson on Dec 21, 2007 9:57 PM CST   0 recs

That's such a dumb take on Volquez
He overstated his welcome, and we failed to turn him into a starter in six years.

Does Gerry Fraley work for BA now?

"God plays by his own rules, folks. And HGH is f***ing legal as hell up in heaven." -Andy Pettitte

by thedirkatron on Dec 21, 2007 10:02 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

WTF
"Texas turned a pitcher who has overstayed his welcome"

Fuck off BA! I swear, I've got to where I can't stand BA anymore.

Merry Christmas

by hurlerhurley on Dec 21, 2007 10:32