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Around SBN: Are The Orioles Bad Or Unlucky With Their Young Pitching?

Getting fired up about Brandon McCarthy

Ready to get fired up about Brandon McCarthy?

Jim Reeves has a column out on McCarthy, talking him up as a guy who makes the Ranger scouts get all weak in the knees:

The White Sox may worry about his gopher-ball rate, and Arlington is not a good place for any right-handed pitcher," Gammons wrote, "but there are many, many people who believe McCarthy is Jack McDowell II."

* * *

There are no guarantees, of course, but as senior scout Mel Didier said Tuesday as he watched McCarthy throw his first bullpen session since camp opened, there's a chance.

Didier was one of the voices Daniels listened to carefully when making the trade for McCarthy. Like McCarthy, Didier lives here in Arizona. He scouted the 23-year-old right-hander during a workout in December, before the deal was consummated.

"I regard McCarthy as one of the top five young pitchers under 24 years old in our game," Didier said. "I believe he'll be a starter who can maybe work himself up to a No. 1 or No. 2."

Where some scouts look at the 6-foot-7 McCarthy and see another Jack McDowell, Didier sees former Cardinals ace Matt Morris.

"Matt Morris, when he came into the game was just like McCarthy, tall and skinny," Didier said. "He threw from a downhill plane. He threw a little harder than McCarthy.

"Both had great curveballs that are equalizers. McCarthy has a better changeup and better control. Matt Morris didn't have that kind of control when he first came up."

* * *

"He has three major league pitches," pitching coach Mark Connor said. "His changeup is top of the scale. His curveball is above average. His fastball hits 88-92 (mph), and he has good control.

"He's exuberant about starting. He didn't like being in the bullpen. I think we're getting him at the right time."

So does McCarthy, who has seen the major league careers of contemporaries such as Francisco Liriano and Justin Verlander already taking off. He's ready to start playing catch-up.

"I definitely envision myself as a future ace," he said. "I would love to be in that role. I welcomed that in the minor leagues. In high school and college, that was something I thrived on, the guy that every five days goes out to the mound, a Chris Carpenter, Johan Santana type where you just know you've got a good chance to get a good win today and get a good outing."

Watching him throw Tuesday, Didier remembered again seeing McCarthy last spring in a White Sox uniform. At that point, he could only drool and hope.

"I won't say I was mesmerized, but I said then, `God, this guy's got something going for him that's going to be special.' He threw a lot of balls right on the knees and threw quality strikes," Didier recalled. "I just feel like he's that kind of guy, that he could be something special.

"Who knows? Only God knows how he's going to turn out. But he's got the chance to really be something. He's got that chance."

I try to stay cynical -- it is the only way to stay sane, as a Ranger fan --  but reading stuff like that does get me pretty fired up about seeing McCarthy in the rotation.

Reeves also hits on the behind-the-scenes issues that have been hinted at with McCarthy and Kenny Williams:

Why did the White Sox suddenly make McCarthy available? Good question but there's no clear-cut answer. McCarthy had made it known that he was ready to start after a year's apprenticeship in the bullpen, but there are rumors that there was more to it than that, perhaps even something personal between Williams and the young pitcher.

"Without getting too much into it, there were personal things between us in different realms, but not really in how I was being used, certainly not last year," McCarthy said. "When you've got five (starters) of that caliber, cracking that rotation is certainly not going to be easy.

"I said it a lot of times that I would love to be starting, but that was the competitive side of me. I wasn't whining or complaining, but I don't know if that was taken out of context."

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Encouraging
To think that the Rangers' #2 and #3 starters may well get the attention of everyone in the AL this season.  Something to hope is fulfilled.
"When you're riding in a time machine way far into the future, don't stick your elbow out the window, or it'll turn into a fossil."

by Ed Coffin on Feb 20, 2007 7:58 PM CST reply actions  

It's almost bizarre and surreal...
...that the praise in that article is for a young Ranger starter.
Edwards-Obama '08

by RangerMoto on Feb 20, 2007 8:36 PM CST reply actions  

McCarthy is huge for us
I live near Chicago and there are a lot of Sox fans here who are still angry he got dealt.  Almost everyone here saw him as a potential 1 or 2 so it is surprising that getting him has not garnered more positive press for the Rangers.  If he can deliver even a solid season then we are in really good shape.  People seem to like to bag on Tejeda but heck, if all we really need from him is to be a no.4 because our 1-3 are solid, then we are in pretty good shape there.  Not many teams have a lock down no. 4 guy.  Where we have fallen short for so long is that we have to get wins out of our 4s and 5s because 1-3 get pulvarized on a regular basis.  I am psyched about our pitching for the first time ever.

by pblack on Feb 20, 2007 9:14 PM CST reply actions  

Absolutely
McCarthy and Blalock will make or break this season for us IMO.

by stephen86 on Feb 20, 2007 11:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Well I don't have
too much confidence in Wilkerson. Given his most recent comments, it is hard to feel comfortable with his chances to regain his pre-injury form.

From what most people have said, the four most important players this season are McCarthy, Tejeda, Blalock, and Wilkerson. I would agree with that assessment. Nevertheless, I think you need one of either McCarthy or Tejeda and one of either Blalock or Wilkerson to produce at their capabilities to be in contention.

Given that we have other options available in the outfield (Cat, Lofton, Cruz, Botts, Sosa [ugh], Diaz, etc) I would say Blalock is even more important than Wilkerson and he is a better bet to perform at a high offensive level than Wilk.

Similarly, Tejeda and McCarthy are both equally important, but given McCarthy's stellar minor league numbers and his K/BB ratio, it is fair to say he has the higher ceiling.

So while I agree Wilkerson or Tejeda are very important, I think Blalock and McCarthy are the best bets and most important keys to the Rangers season.

by stephen86 on Feb 21, 2007 12:22 AM CST up reply actions  

well put
That seems reasonable.
Edwards-Obama '08

by RangerMoto on Feb 21, 2007 1:32 AM CST up reply actions  

Wilk
what's he said recently?  must've missed it
"... Also, Dude, chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian-American, please."

by Walter Sobchak on Feb 21, 2007 12:37 PM CST up reply actions  

He said he feels pretty good
in the showers, until that meat-gazer Sosa sidles up next to him...
I looked around the Duff boards after watching her on TRL.

by Brian Thomas on Feb 21, 2007 1:23 PM CST up reply actions  

ahahaha
oh man.  "meat-gazer"  priceless
Edwards-Obama '08

by RangerMoto on Feb 21, 2007 2:04 PM CST up reply actions  

thanks Brian
although I'm not sure I asked you...how's your chin feelin' by the way?
"... Also, Dude, chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian-American, please."

by Walter Sobchak on Feb 21, 2007 10:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Fine thanks
How's your penis?
I looked around the Duff boards after watching her on TRL.

by Brian Thomas on Feb 22, 2007 10:46 AM CST up reply actions  

You chin, his penis...
are the health of these two things somehow related?

by t ball on Feb 22, 2007 12:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Everyone is overly exuberant
about Tejeda. If you look at his last ten games from last year, you will see he was not as dominant as everyone seems to think and has never pitched over 86 innings at this level.

His WHIP last year was 1.56 BECAUSE he walked 32 batters in 73.2 innings. Compare that to Benoit with a WHIP of 1.33 with 38 walks, four of which were intentional, in 79.2 innings.

Benoit allowed 68 hits, five were HRs. Tejeda  allowed 83 hits ten of which were HRs. Each plunked three opponents but Benoit had 85 SOs while Tejeda had 40. One relieved and the other started so perhaps it isn't a fair comparison but it is profound.

One last point or two. Tejeda had an opponent's BA of .360 and has been very consistent in two years of major league experience with an average of 17.17 pitches per inning. A little math tells us he would have to pitch an average almost 103 pitches per game just to get through 6 innings. Unfortunately he only averages 5.89 innings per game over two years and last year only 5.29 innings per start.

He's young and will probably become a decent number 4 or 5 type. This year? I doubt it.
If so, the number 4 starter will be pretty exciting and it should only get better with the number 5 starter.

Prediction: Tejeda starts in AAA because we have too much talent for him to be on the 25 man team. He may be called up by June but he starts in AAA. BTW I am not oblivious to the fact that he has been given the 4th position to lose.

Hokie Hokie Hokie Hi Tech Tech VPI Go Hokies!

by jackbnimble on Feb 21, 2007 2:11 PM CST up reply actions  

you know
different pitchers but the way they described him, he did sound like a better version of chris young.  I thought mccarthy had a bit more velocity.  
"I want him focused on figuring out a way to beat that lefty's ass." - RW

by ab03 on Feb 20, 2007 9:26 PM CST reply actions  

Personal conflict
Back when the trade went down, I saw a rumor somewhere, maybe even on LSB, that Williams had made a pass at McCarthy's girlfriend or something like that.  That would certainly make for an uncomfortable situation...

I am really looking forward to watching McCarthy pitch in April.  I hope JD, Didier, and Connor are right and the Rangers have a stud under their control for the next 5 seasons.

by t ball on Feb 20, 2007 9:58 PM CST reply actions  

Yep.
I remember that as well. GF or Bmac' sister? Anywho, Kenny is a punk...i wish only the worst for him.

by Longhorn on Feb 20, 2007 10:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep, it was his sister..........
happened more than once..........supposedly BMac was none too happy about it! May have been the last straw in their relationship, since Kenny also basically accused him of "whining" to the press about his bullpen (not starting) role.

by tklawless on Feb 21, 2007 8:33 AM CST up reply actions  

kenny
he may be a good GM, but he really comes off like he is a class A tool
Pimps be damned, it's harder out here for a Rangers fan!

by rentz on Feb 21, 2007 8:51 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm not sure
that the Gammons poll even got enough play around here. That made me do a double take. I'm pretty excited too and would be more than happy to slide over from the 'don't think I liked the trade' side of the fence.

I really think that this is also a big signal on what kind of confidence we can have in our scouts. Our pro scouts are some of the same people who made nice choices on Rupe and Francisco but also the guys who chose Arias over Cano, with time to scout them.

If they're right about McCarthy I'll feel a whole lot more comfortable in trusting them on scouting calls like this one (although who knows how much longer Didier himself will be around, I guess). This deal is really significant in that regard to me.

by Brett Perryman on Feb 21, 2007 1:16 AM CST reply actions  

It was Giordano who chose Arias, wasn't it?
Is he still with the club?
I looked around the Duff boards after watching her on TRL.

by Brian Thomas on Feb 21, 2007 7:33 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah
Giordano is still around.

by Brett Perryman on Feb 21, 2007 7:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Choosing Arias over Cano
Should qualify you to not be around anymore.

by pblack on Feb 21, 2007 9:24 AM CST up reply actions  

how about scouting our own players?
which scouts were the ones that told us chris young had stamina issues?  did your scouts think masset was never going to amount to a starter or did we give up two starters for one?
"I want him focused on figuring out a way to beat that lefty's ass." - RW

by ab03 on Feb 21, 2007 9:42 AM CST up reply actions  

Chris Young
Sounds like it was Buck who decided Young couldn't hack it, although some of that may be people covering their butts by blaming everything bad on the guy who just got fired.

by Adam J. Morris on Feb 21, 2007 10:34 AM CST up reply actions  

179.1 innings...
in 31 starts doesn't show much in the way of stamina.

by Redcaps on Feb 21, 2007 10:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Also
the other part of trusting our scouts, in regard to what I said above, is in being able to trust them to make the correct evaluations of our own guys. Of the guys who Doug Melvin had in his tenure, some of the best players he had, like Edwin Encarnacion, Rich Aurilia, and Aaron Harang, even maybe Ryan Dempster, were traded for very little. When the Rangers traded Sammy Sosa and Wilson Alvarez for Baines, there were actually senior officials (can't remember if Grieve actually said it) who said that they could spare Sosa and Alvarez because Kevin Belcher was very close to Sosa and Brian Bohanon was very close to Alvarez. And it goes back well before then even (from the stories I've been told).

So not only do these guys need to have made the right evaluation on McCarthy, but they need to know their own system well enough to know that Danks, Masset and Rasner aren't going to just kill them to let go.

by Brett Perryman on Feb 21, 2007 9:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Alvarez, Sosa, Bohanon
While I remember Alvarez being expendable because of Bohanon, my recollection was that the Rangers scouts thought Sosa was expendable because of Juan Gonzalez, who they thought would be a better player.

by Adam J. Morris on Feb 21, 2007 10:33 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes and no
Gonzalez was part of the scenario, and obviously as Sosa and Juando were coming up there was the internal debate on which was better. And they wound up concluding that Juando was, yeah. But by the summer of 1989, when Sosa was traded, Gonzalez was kind of an assumption, and the idea was that both would definitely have spots, with Sierra or whoever, in the OF.

Belcher was in the middle of establishing himself as a top 100 prospect at the time (he came in at #82 on the 1990 list which was published after the '89 season), and I distinctly remember the comment of Belcher covering for Sosa. It's always stuck with me. My recollection is that Marty Scott made it, but I can't remember if Grieve echoed it or not.

Also, while the belief was that Gonzalez could handle CF for a time (and he did), part of the reason Belcher could cover for Sosa was that he projected as more of a CF long term. Obviously Sosa only played the rest of the '89 season at CF before moving to RF (and had that enticing arm) and Belcher washed out, but both were seen as more the speedy guys with the correct body types to handle CF, whereas they knew Juando was going to fill out and be a big man. But if you project the OF, you have Sierra and Gonzalez in the corners and Belcher in CF. So there's room to trade Sosa. Incaviglia was still there, but at 25 in '89 put up a .236/.293/.453 line, so he obviously wasn't blocking anyone. And Espy was a pretty ineffective hitter in CF himself.

by Brett Perryman on Feb 21, 2007 10:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Kevin Belcher
I have way too many of his baseball cards. And not on purpose, either.

by RCCook on Feb 21, 2007 12:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah I probably do too
I have about a jillion Gonzalez/Rodriguez/Sosa/Palmer rookie and minor league cards though. I made sure that I had all seven or so of Juando's rookie cards. Pudge's Gastonia card is one of my favorites. He looks like he's about 5-5, 120.

by Brett Perryman on Feb 21, 2007 12:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Cano
I don't recall the general consensus among fans and sabr-types in 2004, but wasn't it a bit harder at that time to discern whether Cano or Arias would turn out to be the better player?  I have a vague recollection that most were surprised that Cano has turned out to be this good, though he showed more bat potential at the time of the trade than Arias did.

by t ball on Feb 21, 2007 11:10 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah I would say so
Going into the 2004 season (which was when we were picking) Arias was ranked 4th by BA and Cano was ranked 6th. I think the feeling on Cano was that he probably wasn't long for 2B, and he's kind of the scout's player, a guy who didn't really indicate with his numbers that he was going to do much, but was seen as an offensive talent, though nothing like what he's become or at least nothing like what he did in 2006. On the other hand Arias was all projection, I guess just as he is now. Ramon Ramirez, another candidate, has done some nice things in the Rockies pen now, btw.

by Brett Perryman on Feb 21, 2007 11:18 AM CST up reply actions  

What ever happened to Rudy Guillen?
I remember Jamey pulling for him...
I looked around the Duff boards after watching her on TRL.

by Brian Thomas on Feb 21, 2007 1:27 PM CST up reply actions  

He's pretty much bombed out
as far as being a top prospect, I think. He was their #12 the next winter and #27 last winter and wasn't among the 70 players listed this winter. He has a .264/.310/.377 minor league line now in five seasons.

by Brett Perryman on Feb 21, 2007 1:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Gammons
any time he praises something Ranger-related, I do a double take
"... Also, Dude, chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian-American, please."

by Walter Sobchak on Feb 21, 2007 12:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Potential Trade
When we first traded for McCarthy, I wasn't so sure about the trade.  Now, I actually LOVE the trade.  I guess I was just pissed that I wouldn't be seeing Danks pitching for us.  I just love the potential that McCarthy brings and being in the rotation NOW instead of waiting another year for Danks.

This got me thinking.

Why not trade for another young pitcher that can pitch for us now.

What type of pitcher can we get if we packaged Diamond, Arias, Botts, Otsuka together?  If a team likes Volquez more, then include him in part of the deal instead of someone else.  Perhaps they like Volquez over Arias.

I know it looks like we're trading all our chips away but if we can get another great starter, this team is pretty solid.  Plus, the players we're trading doesn't seem like they'll be getting a chance on this team.  Either due to no room or too young still.

I think Botts can be very good but I just don't see him getting the chance on this team.  I'm packaging Otsuka because the other team can turn around and package him for something that they'd like (if they didn't want him on the roster).

For future years, we won't need to upgrade the C, 1B, 2B, SS, hopefully all 5 starting pitching slots (Millwood, Padilla, McCarthy, the pitcher we trade for, Tejada) and our pen is solid.  Hopefully Hurley would become a great pitcher and take over Tejada's spot in the future.  This is also going with us resigning Teix and Young.

So that leaves 3B, all 3 OF positions, and DH for the future.  I list 3B in case Blalock doesn't work out.  I feel we could fill those positions through FA.

Now back to Diamond, Arias, Botts, Otsuka. Is that something that could come close to landing someone like D. Willis?

by Coolbean04 on Feb 21, 2007 8:06 PM CST reply actions  

re
What type of pitcher can we get if we packaged Diamond, Arias, Botts, Otsuka together?

A crappy one.

Now back to Diamond, Arias, Botts, Otsuka. Is that something that could come close to landing someone like D. Willis?

Goodness gracious no.

by Brett Perryman on Feb 22, 2007 12:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Anyone else find it interesting that Miggy's
still on our team? I hear he's in the best shape of his life. I'd like to see him throw that gyroball with blue glove lefty.

As sarcastic as this post is, I feel inclined to throw in a joke about 'meat-gazers,' but I can't think of any this morning. I'm open to suggestions.

When all else fails, there's always delusion. - Conan O'Brien

by mtex on Feb 22, 2007 9:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Don't try that "meat-gazer" talk
With Mr. Wally.

He'll whittle ya down to size but quick w/ one of his "chinsults."

I looked around the Duff boards after watching her on TRL.

by Brian Thomas on Feb 22, 2007 8:29 PM CST up reply actions  

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