Elijah Dukes and the Rangers

by Adam J. Morris on May 31, 2007 2:30 PM CDT in News Comment 69 comments

The Rangers have a bunch of quality bullpen arms and a dearth of quality young outfielders.

According to Jayson Stark, the D-Rays, who have a plethora of quality young outfielders, are looking to deal one for a reliever:

We're hearing the Devil Rays have been floating the name of troubled Elijah Dukes to see whether a trade can (A) get Dukes a fresh start away from his hometown and (B) bring them a decent, badly needed bullpen arm. But clubs are understandably reluctant to deal any known quantities for a player who, despite his massive talent, is still the ultimate unknown quantity. If the Rays ever ended up releasing Dukes, "then 29 teams would line up to sign him -- or at least 20 would," one GM said. "But to trade for him, that's different." The funny thing is, from all accounts, Dukes has behaved great at the park and around the club. And when you consider the upside of trading a set-up arm for a position player with his skills, it wouldn't be a shock if some team actually made that deal at some point.

Dukes has off-the-field issues. But he's also an incredibly talented 22 year old outfielder on a team that wants to move him.

If the D-Rays will part with him in exchange for Scott Feldman, or even Joaquin Benoit, don't you have to think long and hard about it?

Or not even think long and hard about it...don't you have to make that deal?

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If that's all it took, yes.

I'm not a fan of headcases, but to roll the dice on someone with his talent for a spare arm (especially Feldman), you gotta do that.

"Fire Jon Daniels!" Someone has to start it.

by chief on May 31, 2007 2:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Absolutely

We'd have the criminal spectrum covered:

Frank-Frank: Assault
Padilla: DUI
Dukes: Domestic Violence
Sosa: Drugs

Rangers in '07. Obama in '08.

by ghtd36 on May 31, 2007 2:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Trade Francisco for him

Even trade.

by doolindalton on May 31, 2007 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

huh?

Don't remember Padilla being charged with DUI. At least not while in TX...

by Droopydave on May 31, 2007 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

in philly

pretty well known incident.

Forget Johnny Bench, we got Gerry "the Jet" Laird

by ab03 on May 31, 2007 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Trading soon-to-be-expensive

head cases for cheap head cases is what baseball trades are all about. Jack for Dukes. yep. yep.

People rarely live up to their baby pictures.

by rooster on May 31, 2007 2:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

For those arms

you have to make that deal, and then do everything you can to help him sort his life out when he gets here.

Detroit's bullpen stinks, too. Maybe they'd give up Gorkys Hernandez for the right arm.

by t ball on May 31, 2007 2:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

And, hey

it's a good idea for him to get several hundred miles away from his ex, isn't it?

by t ball on May 31, 2007 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

NO way

This team is bad enough as is. The last thing we need is a head case like Dukes. He would rip this team apart, or what little there is to rip apart.

"This is a simple game, you hit the ball, you catch the ball, and you throw the ball."

by lwjr on May 31, 2007 2:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I trade him for just about anyone in the pen

If you don't have fun it's your own damn fault.

by cgolden on May 31, 2007 2:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed...

Only guys I wouldn't trade out of the pen for Dukes would be Otsuka, Francisco, and probably CJ.

by slimshadty12 on May 31, 2007 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

They have tons of young talent

we can send them a couple arms for a package of players.

If you don't have fun it's your own damn fault.

by cgolden on May 31, 2007 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nope

Too much of a PR hit

by OKC Ranger Fan on May 31, 2007 2:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Rangers don't care about PR

we've been linked to roids more times than Arnold and Sly.

If you don't have fun it's your own damn fault.

by cgolden on May 31, 2007 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wasn't Sosa ...

supposed to be a big PR hit. If anything he's been the only reason anyone out of the area writes about us.

by slimshadty12 on May 31, 2007 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

PR problems tend to fade quickly...

when:

(1) you're winning

(2) the PR problem is one of you're only good players (Sosa)

by isaacbrock on May 31, 2007 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes. yes yes

and more yes.

by Longhorn on May 31, 2007 2:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

and

Wash would be a good influence on him.

by Longhorn on May 31, 2007 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dukes for Scott Feldman?

I don't even think a retarded monkey would make that trade but, hell yes you would have to do that in a heart beat, I would be racing to get that deal done before the other GM sobers up from what would seem to be a 3 week bender.

I would trade anybody in the pen strait up for dukes.

by TexGoesYard on May 31, 2007 2:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

yes

we have a horse stimulant fueled monkey on our team i think we can handle the mild PR hit this would bring i agree anyone except wilson, frankie, or otsuka..

by M_Y_isDANK on May 31, 2007 2:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Not sure which ones

I wouldn't trade. I don't think I'd want to part with Frankie or CJ, and probably not Aki in this type of deal. But I think pretty much anyone else out there would be fair game. Hell make them a package of mediocrity for a head case.

Lets do it!

by JKolar on May 31, 2007 2:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

I would take Dukes and see if I couldn't sort him out. Heck, Albert Belle was as big an a**hole as they make and he was a flat out stud. I didn't hear Cleveland complaining much when he was taking them to the WS.

Fire Michael Young and Ron Washington and Vicente Padilla

by pblack on May 31, 2007 2:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Dukes' wife filed for divorce today

So that means his problems are over. Done and done.

Well Mr. Burns had done it. The power plant had won it. With Roger Clemens clucking all the while.

by WyoRanger on May 31, 2007 2:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

.223 avg is scary

but a .347 obp makes up for it.

add to that the fact that he's a rookie then yeah, feldman + eyre for him, maybe even mike wood.

Al Gore 2008 http://www.myspace.com/igotsculture

by gossamer on May 31, 2007 2:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Still think they would want more then...

mediocre sidearmers and AAAA scrap.

Probably would take guys like Benoit, Littleton, CJ- Young guys with good stuff.

by slimshadty12 on May 31, 2007 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like CJ a lot (who doesn't?)

They can have Littleton AND Feldman.

22 year olds can learn a lot.

Baseball is not like hoops or life in the NFL. It's very time-consuming. Give Dukes some cash, a new home, a new start?

It's worth a try.

by 3Bagger on May 31, 2007 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's younger than Mayberry ...

... and putting up Mayberry-esque numbers in the bigs.

Rangers Farm Probables

by shroomer on May 31, 2007 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right now!

Beyond Aki and CJ, pick ANY Bullpen Piece you want.

by 3Bagger on May 31, 2007 2:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Yep

Other than CJ, aki, or FX2, I would.

by Droopydave on May 31, 2007 3:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Why Keep Otsuka?

Really, why? He is 35, and is flirting with implosion at any moment. Just take a look at his K's for his career in the majors:

2004 - 87 K's, 1.125 K's/inning pitched
2005 - 60 K's, 0.966 K's/inning pitched
2006 - 47 K's, 0.787 K's/inning pitched
2007 - 17 K's, 0.909 K's/inning pitched

For career, he has pitched the most number of games (56) with zeros days of rest (back to back appearances), and has the following line: 4.81 ERA, 0.913 K's/inning pitched, and gives up the most number of HR's in this situation (6).

A setup man/closer who cannot who has a decreasing K rate is flirting with disaster. Having the ball put consistently into play is a risky way to close out a game or hold onto a lead. Not only that, he is much less effective in back to back games. This means you need another reliable setup man/closer to ensure you win back to back close games. I have compared him to Danny Kolb on several occasions, and I think it is a fair comparison; you can go quickly from All Star to bust when you can't strike out batters. The quicker the Rangers dump Otsuka on another team, the better.

by Excel Hearts Choi on May 31, 2007 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

otsuka

main reason i wouldnt give him up for dukes is i think he can be part of a better package in another trade

"Pimps be damned, it's harder out here for a Rangers fan!" "If you don't throw strikes first, you're last."

by rentz on May 31, 2007 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

package

Well, people are saying to keep Otsuka as if he is untouchable. If you want to package him with somebody else, I am all for that. Though Dukes for Otsuka seems great to me.

by Excel Hearts Choi on May 31, 2007 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well

i'd rather give up a lesser bullpen arm for dukes, i dont think it would take otsuka.
I believe otsuka can be packaged to be part of a better deal elsewhere.
i dont think he's untouchable or anything just that i wouldnt trade him in this deal

"Pimps be damned, it's harder out here for a Rangers fan!" "If you don't throw strikes first, you're last."

by rentz on May 31, 2007 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jack

He's had two years with a positive ERA+, and this is one of them. Sell high on that 128 ERA+.

Well Mr. Burns had done it. The power plant had won it. With Roger Clemens clucking all the while.

by WyoRanger on May 31, 2007 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yup

thats my thinking.
Also isn't he nearing free agency?

"Pimps be damned, it's harder out here for a Rangers fan!" "If you don't throw strikes first, you're last."

by rentz on May 31, 2007 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

who do you replace him with?

littleton?
feldman?

hes a pretty vital cog in the bullpen (stats wise at least)

(FWIW, gagne has an era+ of 555! lol)

BGL is at 230 through 26 appearences/27.3 IP

also benoit has appeared in the most games for the rangers RP's (3 more than otsuka/CJ) and has the second most IP in the 'pen (behind CJ)

i dont understand why everyone is so quick to want to trade him...the past (obv) but he seems to have put it together this yr (and hes never been too terribly bad as a RP)

by knockoutking24 on Jun 1, 2007 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Quick to take advantage

of any trade offers that come up. Obviously, he's important for the bullpen... but he's important for the bullpen of a team that's going nowhere and needs to plan for the future.

What the Rangers need right now is not one or two good seasons from a fungible-type reliever, but young and talented.

I like the idea of going the Billy Beane route and gave him the closer role for a few months to drive up his trade value. Kinda like how Otsuka's value is perceived to be higher than any number of middle relievers with equivalent statistics...

by a bebop a rebop on Jun 1, 2007 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that should read

young and talented position players*

by a bebop a rebop on Jun 1, 2007 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

right

my thinking is, he is 1yr away from freeagency... his value has never been higher than it is now so you might as well take advantage of benoit performing well.
My fear is he goes back to his old ways of being inconsistent and becomes useless in a trade.

"Pimps be damned, it's harder out here for a Rangers fan!" "If you don't throw strikes first, you're last."

by rentz on Jun 1, 2007 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No

Aki's better than that.

It takes a big man to cry. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man.

by thedirkatron on May 31, 2007 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

better package?

you really think someone would give us something more valuable than a 22 year old starting ML CF with good defensive skills and loads of power?

That is expecting a pretty good return for Aki. I think everyone would be ecstatic if we go Ellesbury for him, and Dukes is a much better player than Ellesbury.

by tricer on May 31, 2007 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dukes

He's a psycho. You get a discount for crazy.

It takes a big man to cry. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man.

by thedirkatron on May 31, 2007 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

dukes

that was my thinking, they're tired of the crazy...which means he comes at a discount

"Pimps be damned, it's harder out here for a Rangers fan!" "If you don't throw strikes first, you're last."

by rentz on May 31, 2007 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would say...

...that a talent like Dukes for Aki is a pretty damn good discount.

The guy is about as talented as any young outfielder in the game. To land that for a 35 year old soft tosser mid reliever would be a steal for us.

I would be willing to bet that, if we deal Aki, whatever we get won't be nearly as valuable as Dukes.

by tricer on May 31, 2007 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

Suffice it to say we differ on the value of both those players.

It takes a big man to cry. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man.

by thedirkatron on May 31, 2007 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dukes...

...is a 22 year old CF in the big leagues with good defensive skills, nice patience, and excellent power. I value that combination very, very highly.

And I agree with Excel Hearts Choi comments about Aki. I think he is a time bomb, and he suffered from allergies/migraines and couldn't even pitch last year in late Aug/Sept.

Is there something about Dukes talent that you don't like? Or is it strictly due to the personal issues that you would pass on him?

by tricer on Jun 1, 2007 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Another reason to trade Aki

Does anyone remember the allergy/migraine problems he had last year? He couldn't even pitch in late Aug-Sept. I wouldn't hesitate to move him in a good deal right now, because if he goes through a similar problem this season (which I think is likely, if the problem was allergy related) his value will take a big hit before the offseason.

by tricer on May 31, 2007 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The main problem

is bringing him here and then having to watch as he only plays 1 out of ever 3 days while our "important" players like Byrd, Wilkerson, Catalanatto, Lofton, Curz, Diaz and Sosa all play ahead of him. If we trade for him we should beg the DRays to take one of our crappy OFers in addition just so Wash couldn't play them over Dukes. There is no point in bringing him here to let him ride the pine.

Fire Michael Young and Ron Washington and Vicente Padilla

by pblack on May 31, 2007 3:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Quick on the draw...

That's funny, I just read this article and was on my way over here to post about it. It seems to make sense to me, especially since he is a player that will be here for the next couple of years. And also since they are looking for bullpen help.

I'd keep Otsuka and probably CJ. Other than that, they can have at it.

Also in that article, they talked about Philly looking to trade Rowand for relief help. I'd also consider that pretty strongly...

by GhettoBear04 on May 31, 2007 3:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

How much better would the OF look if we

could trade Frankie for Dukes and Aki or Gagne for Rowand?

If you don't have fun it's your own damn fault.

by cgolden on May 31, 2007 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rowand

He's a free agent after the season, so I'm not sure that it makes much sense to go get him.

by Adam J. Morris on May 31, 2007 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Isn't a major goal of the offseason to sign a CF

He'd be alot cheaper with a little less production than Hunter wouldn't he?

If you don't have fun it's your own damn fault.

by cgolden on May 31, 2007 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

considering that both Hunter...

...and Dukes would be under club control for the next 5 years, I think it is pretty safe to say that Elijah is going to be much more productive over his age 22-27 seasons than Torii will be during his age 33-38 seasons. And cheaper too.

Plus, Elijah is a much cooler name than Torii.

by tricer on May 31, 2007 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow is Rowand that old?

I thought maybe he'd still go to arb.

Time flies.

by isaacbrock on May 31, 2007 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I do it in a heartbeat

then again, my view is that I'm not picking ballplayers to be my next door neighbors, Im picking em to play ball.

Mitt Romney should "get out his small-varmint gun and drive those Guatemalans off his lawn" -- Sen John McCain

by DJCahill on May 31, 2007 3:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

yes i'd do it

they can have any of our spare bullpen arms with the exception of frankie, cj, gagne and otsuka.
but i doubt they take a guy like feldman or even littleton.... benoit could get the deal done i bet.

"Pimps be damned, it's harder out here for a Rangers fan!" "If you don't throw strikes first, you're last."

by rentz on May 31, 2007 3:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

eh

i guess i disagree with the consensus

its not like frankie who as far as i know only has that one incident.

dukes has been in legal trouble his whole life, got suspended and ejected quite a few times in the minors(argument with manager, fight with teammate, etc..), complained about the organization while he was in the minors, and then of course theres the whole thing with threatening to kill his ex wife.

i dont have a big problem with guys who have isolated incidents or have a reputation for a bad attitude, but dukes seems to be crossing the line on frequency and seriousness of problems to me.

even people like milton bradley i wouldnt mind, but yeah im a little skeptical on dukes.

so... if they are willing to just essentially give him away for a lower tier reliever or someone who will be gone next year, i guess you have to considerate it just for the sake of making a trade to help the talent of the team... but i wouldnt want to give up a key bullpen piece3 we have locked up for a while, even though talent wise it would be a good deal. and no gyroball pitchers =P

by DSheppard on May 31, 2007 4:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

we are being stingy i guess

we want moves
we need moves
we realize that the team is crap
but we say, "i don't wanna give up this guy, this guy, this guy, this guy and that guy"

i guess a great bullpen is important, but it's also pointless if starting pitching as atrocious and hitting isn't consistent. what's the point of having a bullpen always coming in when the team is behind 4 or 5 runs? i guess it's to stop the bloodletting but the offense doesn't really ever catch up and win the game.

saying, "we wanna keep francisco, cj wilson, gagne, otsuka AND wilson and trade anybody else" is silly. those guys i just mentioned are the ones that can get a good return. i definitely understand wanting to keep 2 of them but all of them?

i would say wilson is a keeper and either otsuka OR francisco. gagne and francisco/otuska are okay to deal. so is benoit who has been steller this season (except for maybe 2 innings in 2 different games). i like littleton but maybe he can help make the team better next year or in 2 years by trading him.

Al Gore 2008 http://www.myspace.com/igotsculture

by gossamer on May 31, 2007 4:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

trades

i think the point of saying we wouldnt want to give up those guys (or at least my thinking) is dukes can likely be had cheap, so why give up solid bullpen talent that could be used in a bigger better trade, especially gagne and otsuka

"Pimps be damned, it's harder out here for a Rangers fan!" "If you don't throw strikes first, you're last."

by rentz on May 31, 2007 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

as for dukes

i suggested maybe feldman + eyre

not giving up the farm for a player with "issues"

Al Gore 2008 http://www.myspace.com/igotsculture

by gossamer on May 31, 2007 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

as for the tigers?

a reliever for omar infante?

Al Gore 2008 http://www.myspace.com/igotsculture

by gossamer on May 31, 2007 4:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

speaking of gyroball

unrelated topic, but have you seen Dice-K's era rising (4.83), are hitters adjusting to him?

by Randy Richardson on May 31, 2007 4:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

i haven't paid attention

to him because i could care less about the bosox, yankees, cubbies and mets.

has he been throwing it much? or does he throw it like once every blue moon. looking at his game log, he's had a couple bad starts in a row

4 bad out of 11.
3 average out of 11.
4 good out of 11.

not bad for a "rookie" good k's/ip

Al Gore 2008 http://www.myspace.com/igotsculture

by gossamer on May 31, 2007 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Scott Feldman

I'd trade him for Elijah Doolittle.

Still, this guy seems like a complete piece of shit. On the precipice of O.J. country.

You gotta give it a shot. I guess I would. Still, my prediction is it blows up in the face of whoever takes him. Big time.

Think about it. He is probably their 2nd most talented OF, and easily the best economic bargain. But he's who they are shopping. I'd say that says alot.

Dozens!!!

by Brian Thomas on May 31, 2007 5:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

3rd, maybe

CC and Delmon are in a class above Elijah. You could argue Rocco, because Elijah has been known to play entire games without straining and/or breaking something.

It takes a big man to cry. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man.

by thedirkatron on May 31, 2007 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Couple of things

Both could be irrelevant since a trade for Dukes isn't even set in jello yet.

First, he's probably not worse, maybe not as bad, as Joey Albert Belle. And some others. Be mindful that in 2007, every beat reporter, every station voice, and every internet blogger is looking for attention and voice. That includes taking the luster off of some, and emphasizing the trouble in life of others. Elijah "aint' no saint", for sure, but he could be Audie Murphy (without the .30-06) in a Texas offense.

The other, this club and this city has seen any number of 'renegades' brought into its' pro teams. Most have settled, and most have not faced adversarial press all that much and have been put on watch about Tejas (only two laws enforced, behave and you will thrive, misbehave and we execute you).

Just random comment.

Time does funny things. The worst of which is, it keeps moving when you don't.

by Ed Coffin on May 31, 2007 5:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs