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Rangers fans fear Julio Borbon

I just wanted to mention something...

I don't think I've ever seen a baseball team's fanbase so collectively terrified about what the team is going to do with a draft pick, as it seems Rangers fans currently are about the possibility of the Rangers picking Julio Borbon with the 24th (or even worse, the 17th) pick in the draft on Thursday.

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Name
Does anyone else think that this sounds like a name Fletch might have made up?

by t ball on Jun 4, 2007 3:54 PM CDT reply actions  

no period needed
his middle name was actually just the letter S, oddly enough.  Truman, I mean, not Fletch...

by t ball on Jun 4, 2007 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

True..
That was a hotly debated topic I had in a game of Trivial Pursuit. The other team answered that the "S" stood for nothing, I maintain (to this day) that the "S" stands for "S".

by Topgun22 on Jun 4, 2007 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Can you blame the fans...
after this team drafted Drew Meyer, John Mayberry, Jr and K.C. Herren?
"Chip" first person on LSB to be berated by someone on the 25-man roster. - RangerMoto

by ortonius on Jun 4, 2007 4:01 PM CDT reply actions  

All...
were guys that oozed tools that the Rangers thought they could teach how to hit (with the exception of Mayberry, who at least had power).  I don't think any of them will be anything but a bust.  At least JMJ has started to hit, but I doubt he ever makes it above AA.
"Chip" first person on LSB to be berated by someone on the 25-man roster. - RangerMoto

by ortonius on Jun 4, 2007 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

KC
You do know he is hitting somewhat okay right now, right?

by Longhorn on Jun 4, 2007 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Herren
.329/.381/.566 in Clinton right now.  And it isn't like he's too old to be there.

by Adam J. Morris on Jun 4, 2007 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not sold on him...
but he is hitting better.  When he does it at Bakersfield or Frisco, I'll be impressed.
"Chip" first person on LSB to be berated by someone on the 25-man roster. - RangerMoto

by ortonius on Jun 4, 2007 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Borbon
The only problem I have with it is that the vast majority of fans (myself included) know next to nothing about the guy. I know he is a fast toolsy CF, who has a bad OBP from the leadoff spot. The only reason I know that is because I read it here. Is that enough for me to not want the Rangers to draft him? Yeah, it is, but I can't really justify my opinion.

by Topgun22 on Jun 4, 2007 4:14 PM CDT reply actions  

Borbon
I'm not sure how his power grades out, but toolsy OF's with "leadoff" skills and low OBP's often struggle to be productive major-leaguers.

If Borbon has decent power, he might be able to overcome the low OBP and become a Carl Crawford type, or if he's got good power, Torii Hunter. If not, he's headed for the Juan Pierre/Joey Gathright bin- and the upside of players like that is usually pretty small.

"Then I met some friends for a beer, went to a BoDeans's concert, and son of a vondruke, if I didn't leave him at the concert hall."

by RCCook on Jun 4, 2007 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

i might be missing something here
but a career OB% at UT of nearly 40% is 'low OBP'??

The more I research this guy, the more I wouldn't mind the Rangers drafting him...

by Longhorn on Jun 4, 2007 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

OBP
.400 OBP seems low since there are around 40 Div I players with a batting average higher than .400 and right now I think his OBP is below .400, more like .370... again .370 would be great in MLB, but I think it is fairly pedestrian for NCAA

by Brandon Wilson on Jun 4, 2007 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

how many 860+ OPS CFs
are there in college right now?

by Longhorn on Jun 4, 2007 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

NCAA Stats
Hard to easily get the stats, so I don't know the exact number, but I think I can safely say a bunch of Div I CFers have a 860+ OPS... I just looked at a couple of the prominent Big XII teams and found these stats:

Ok State - Keanon Simon - .895 OPS
Texas - Jordan Danks - .879 OPS
Texas - Nick Peoples - .909 OPS

I could not find that OBP and SLG for Evan Frey of Mizzou but it has to be over .920 since his avg was .343 and he walked 39 times and had 20 xbh(216 AB)...

by Brandon Wilson on Jun 4, 2007 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ellsbury's OPS
at Oregon State was 1.077...and he doesn't have any power to speak of.   His OBP was .495

Borbon (.370 OBP /  .876 OPS) is no Jacoby Ellsbury.   He's not even in Ellsbury's league defensively.

What I fear is that they try to erase the mistake of not having taken Ellsbury at #18 two years ago by making the mistake of taking Borbon at #17 this year.  Daniels has already screwed up once by trying to erase a mistake by making another mistake.

by mjh on Jun 4, 2007 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

huh?
"He's not even in Ellsbury's league defensively"

why am i not surprised you said that...

And, what did JD screw up other than trading away your man crush?

by Longhorn on Jun 4, 2007 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Also
i had no idea 'right now' meant 2 years ago.

by Longhorn on Jun 4, 2007 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Do you know
how many times he walked this year? (not meaning that to come off with attitude or anything, just asking)

SIX. Six walks in 40 games. Does that sound like a leadoff hitter in this day and age?

by Brett Perryman on Jun 4, 2007 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

if he can handle the bat
and it looks like he doesn't K much. Yes.

by Longhorn on Jun 4, 2007 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Who cares
how much your leadoff hitter K's or handles the bat? Even in a traditional, out of date sense, that's what a #2 hitter does. Your top of the order guys need to get on base, period. Speed is good, power is good, but they have to get on base. And guys who don't walk are not going to get on base unless they're Ichiro, and Julio Borbon is not Ichiro.

by Brett Perryman on Jun 4, 2007 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

By the way
did you see the link I replied on the Noonan thing with dirkatron...i think that may be the scouting report he was looking at...

by Longhorn on Jun 4, 2007 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

No
I'll check it out though, thanks.

by Brett Perryman on Jun 4, 2007 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Speaking of which...
...anyone notice Drew Stubbs' numbers this year, in low-A?

Not real good.

by Adam J. Morris on Jun 4, 2007 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Borbon
i have nothing against him. If the Kenny Lofton comparisons are accurate, i don't mind drafting him.

by Longhorn on Jun 4, 2007 4:32 PM CDT reply actions  

borbon
i could probably live with him if they take him at 24....as long as LaPorta is already off the board.
"Pimps be damned, it's harder out here for a Rangers fan!" "If you don't throw strikes first, you're last."

by rentz on Jun 4, 2007 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Borbon
I don't know much about the draft, but in one like this, which is allegedly so strong on LHPs, I don't know why you would draft a guy like Borbon at all with one of our first 3 picks, much less the first 2.  If we draft a whole batch of LHPs I'm okay with that. Mostly I just want us to take the best available guy, which is what JD has said they will do.  Let's just hope Hart is golfing Thursday and not in the war room.
Fire Michael Young and Ron Washington and Vicente Padilla

by pblack on Jun 4, 2007 4:37 PM CDT reply actions  

OT:
Botts had 3 walks today and a hit.
Fire Michael Young and Ron Washington and Vicente Padilla

by pblack on Jun 4, 2007 4:39 PM CDT reply actions  

Koronka had a good day too
And Gold as well.

I can't wait for the Botts experiment.  When is the call-up for cryin' out loud?

Cat/Wilk/Diaz in LF
Lofton in CF
Sosa in RF
and Botts at DH.

EVery GAme PLease.

by isaacbrock on Jun 4, 2007 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

LF
thats one crowded LF platoon you've got there
"Pimps be damned, it's harder out here for a Rangers fan!" "If you don't throw strikes first, you're last."

by rentz on Jun 4, 2007 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lofton against lefties?
And Sosa playing every game in RF? How about Byrd gets a few ABs in there in CF and those LFs get some of Sosa's ABs? I really don't think that our focus needs to be on squeezing every AB that we can out of our 40 year olds. We need to keep them fresh for their new teams anyway.

by Brett Perryman on Jun 4, 2007 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Byrd
Byrd isn't worth playing either.  He's 30 and has never been any good.  Let's find a real option in CF.  Heck, you might as well bring up Mahar or Guzman for the rest of the year if you don't get anything better back in trades.  Byrd has no further beyond 5th OF.  I still can't believe that Washington sticks him in LF instead of Diaz.

by BCanfield @ Lone Star Ball on Jun 4, 2007 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree that
I'd love to find a real CF. But Mahar and Guzman aren't that guy either, and while, if you went back to the thread where they signed him I was the wet blanket, I'll just say that I would place his odds of being a usable major leaguer, from this point on, higher than Mahar's or Guzman's.

Anyway, my point wasn't so much that Byrd needed to play as that I'd like to maximize my assets with Lofton and Sosa, and burning them out isn't going to do that. Lofton will look better if he's rested some and only played vs righties.

by Brett Perryman on Jun 4, 2007 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Matthews, JR. and DeRosa
were 31 and not very good before last year too. I'd like to give Byrd a chance and see what he can do, he's been swinging the bat well all year (Spring, AAA, and here).

by Randy Richardson on Jun 4, 2007 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Diaz
He's somewhat feast or famine. 0 walks and 19k's in 64 abs. Also, off the top of my head, I think 6 of his 7 hr's have been opposite field shots on pitches high and away. They're going to stop throwing him that pitch.

Don't get me wrong though, I'd still rather him get abs than Sosa.

by Randy Richardson on Jun 4, 2007 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sosa trade
I still don't think it's happening.  I'd like it to, but I just get a gut feeling that he's here for the year.
"Fire Jon Daniels!" Someone has to start it.

by chief on Jun 4, 2007 5:14 PM CDT reply actions  

I think it depends...
If he hits #600 before the deadline, I think he's shipped out. If not, I think he stays for financial reasons.

by cmkelly29 on Jun 4, 2007 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Me too....
he won't get them anything in return and they'll mistakenly think some shmoe will come out in September to watch Sammy hit home runs (or k 4 times).

by bdavison94 on Jun 4, 2007 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

He'll have value...
given his contract and popularity.

by cmkelly29 on Jun 4, 2007 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think so......
He's a platoon hitter now.  Or at least should be.  So you need to find at least two teams (one to bid against the other) that could use a guy that can hit lefties only AND is in a pennant race.  I just don't see anyone giving up anything more than a VERY fringe prospect, and I think that is BEST case.  

More likely he's playing RF for the Rangers the rest of the year.  

Now if he really heats up against righties I'll take it back.

by bdavison94 on Jun 4, 2007 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah
i'm thinking he's here for the year unless his june is like his month of april, then he might be tradeable.
"Pimps be damned, it's harder out here for a Rangers fan!" "If you don't throw strikes first, you're last."

by rentz on Jun 4, 2007 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Awesomely stupid trade idea at FJM
This is a good one by a Twins reporter.

Here's the gist - Twins trade Hunter to the Yankees in exchange for A-Rod (if A-Rod agrees to not exercise his opt out clause). Yankees sign Hunter to 3 year/$45 mill contract AND essentially pay the Twins the difference between A-Rod's contract and Hunter's contract. Essentially, the Yankees get Torii Hunter while paying an amount equal to what they were paying A-Rod.

Twins to Yankees "we'll trade you a decent player for your great player BUT ONLY IF you give us a batch of money to pay the great player."

Who'd be stupid enough to do that? Oh, wait, never mind.

Well Mr. Burns had done it. The power plant had won it. With Roger Clemens clucking all the while.

by WyoRanger on Jun 4, 2007 5:33 PM CDT reply actions  

I missed the best part
In the comments under the reporter's trade "idea," fans chime in. I haven't counted the yeas and nays, but more than a few have said "NO DEAL!!"

Man.

http://www.startribune.com/blogs/sinker/?p=112

Well Mr. Burns had done it. The power plant had won it. With Roger Clemens clucking all the while.

by WyoRanger on Jun 4, 2007 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Borbon
No more position players with iffy bats in the first round.  If we take Borbon with either of our first 2 picks, I will throw something across the room.  He has bust written all over him just like Mayberry did.  I'm hoping Mills will slip to us at 17 (or we pickup a HS pitcher) and LaPorta is there at 24.  Surely Daniels isn't as ignorant as Buck.  If he picks Borbon with either of our first 2 picks, I'll join the fire Daniels bandwagon.

Borbon/LaPorta=Mayberry/Ellsbury

by BCanfield @ Lone Star Ball on Jun 4, 2007 6:25 PM CDT reply actions  

BA Subscribers
what's the reason they give for having Borbon as the 15th best player in the draft?

by Longhorn on Jun 4, 2007 8:21 PM CDT reply actions  

from Baseball Prospectus
quoting some "scouting directors"

College Players Disappoint
On both the hitting and pitching sides, the college talent level has disappointed. When it comes to position players, there's Georgia Tech catcher Matt Wieters, and then an uninspiring group of low-ceiling safe picks that many evaluators have trouble getting excited about. "It's a very, very, thin position group in the college ranks," said one scouting director. "Health is definitely a factor here," he added. "If guys like the pair at Tennessee, [outfielder Julio] Borbon and [catcher J.P.] Arencibia can get healthy, they might separate themselves -- but overall, the talent is just all right at best."

Another scouting director saw the lack of elite talent moving some players into draft positions that are significantly higher than the talent merits.

"There are those teams out there, that for philosophical purposes, are going to focus on college players," said the lead scout. "That's going to push some guys up into the first round that don't belong there. So you're drafting a decent player, but his draft status and bonus is that of a future star." Another agreed with the assessment by adding, "There's just not a lot of guys where you look at them and say, 'This guy is really going to hit'."

by Brandon Wilson on Jun 4, 2007 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

more in today's BP
Kevin Goldstein has his top 50 draft prospects in today's column http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6311

On Borbon (#25), he offers this:

"25. Julio Borbon, OF, Tennessee
Pros: Top college leadoff hitter is plus-plus runner with line-drive bat; plus range in center field.
Cons: Hampered by an ankle injury much of the year; not an instinctual basestealer; limited power ceiling; weak arm."

by Brandon Wilson on Jun 5, 2007 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

from Baseball America
"The top college outfielder in a draft virtually devoid of them..."
"At his best, Borbon is a top-of-the-order hitter who makes sharp contact and changes games with his plus speed. He's more than a slap-and-run type, with above-average bat speed and some sock in his bat. A Dominican native, he has an aggressive approach and doesn't walk often. His defense is adequate, but he could improve his reads and routes. A popular comparison for Borbon is Johnny Damon, for the pop in his bat as well as his speed and well-below-average arm."

by Brandon Wilson on Jun 4, 2007 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

hmmmm
so-so defense with no arm... leadoff hitter that doesn't walk...

yeah, that's just what we need to take in the first round...

by Brandon Wilson on Jun 4, 2007 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

please no................
that guys swing is horrible.......looks to be all arms.......stance is way to wide, does he think he is Pujols?  I'm no Rudy J. but can you generate extra base power with a stance that wide?  Looks to have no hip turn.  I have just made my first ever scouting report........good times.
"This team sucks"

by rkh on Jun 4, 2007 9:16 PM CDT reply actions  

Jeff Bagwell
...had a pretty wide stance

by mdickson on Jun 5, 2007 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

You know
when i saw that video, i thought exactly of Bags, especially the way he kinda takes a step back when he swings...

by Longhorn on Jun 5, 2007 12:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

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