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Around SBN: The Slow Decline of Duke

On Eric Gagne

One of the movies I always really liked was "True Romance."  Great script by Quentin Tarantino, nice direction, a great cast -- Christian Slater, back when he was still a really good actor and not some nut, Dennis Hopper and Christopher Walken acting crazy, Brad Pitt and Val Kilmer in cameos, Gary Oldman, Patricia Arquette, even guys like Michael Rapaport and Serge from Beverly Hills Cop with strong performances.

And there's a scene, where Slater's character, Clarence Whirly, is trying to unload a huge amount of cocaine he ended up with when he killed his girlfriend's pimp, and is telling the producer that his buddy works for why he should buy this huge amount, rather than stick with his safe little nickel-and-dime purchases from his usual sources, and uses a movie analogy to explain:

CLARENCE:  Lee, the reason I'm talkin' with you is I want to open "Doctor Zhivago" in L.A. And I want you to distribute it.

LEE:  I don't know, Clarence, "Doctor Zhivago" is a pretty big movie.

CLARENCE:  The biggest. The biggest movie you've ever dealt with, Lee. We're talkin' a lot of film. A man'd have ta be an idiot not to be a little cautious about a movie like that. And Lee, you're no idiot.

LEE:  I'm not sayin' I'm not interested. But being a distributer's not what I'm all about. I'm a film producer, I'm on this world to make good movies. Nothing more. Now, having my big toe dipped into the distribution end helps me on many levels.  But the bottom line is: I'm not Paramount. I have a select group of distributers I deal with. I buy their little movies. Accomplish what I wanna accomplish, end of story. Easy, business-like, very little risk.

CLARENCE:  Now that's bullshit, Lee. Every time you buy one of those little movies it's a risk. I'm not sellin' you something that's gonna play two weeks, six weeks, then go straight to cable. This is "Doctor Zhivago". This'll be packin' 'em in for a year and a half. Two years! That's two years you don't have to work with anybody's movie but mine.

The recent flurry of news about the Rangers wanting to work on extending Eric Gagne rather than trading him, and the criticism from fans who say the Rangers can find a closer anywhere, shouldn't be spending money on a closer, makes me think of this exchange.

Because we aren't talking about one of those little closers.  We aren't talking about Joe Borowski or Armando Benitez or Ryan Dempster.  We're talking about Eric Gagne, one of the most dominant relief pitchers in baseball history.

Eric Gagne, folks, is Doctor Zhivago.

Eric Gagne is one of the great relievers ever to pitch.  And he's still only 31 years old.  I can't understand the mentality that says, if he wants to stay with the Rangers, we can't be bothered, we don't want him, he needs to go somewhere else because we'd rather spend money elsewhere.

And to be clear, I'm not advocating paying him whatever it takes.  If Gagne's position is, "I think if I stay healthy and pitch great and become a free agent this offseason, I'll get a contract of X if things go well, so pay me X right now and I'll stay," then I keep shopping him and tell him we'll talk to him after the season.

But if Gagne is willing to extend now, for a reasonable amount -- not what he's going to get from the highest bidder this offseason, necessarily, but maybe a 3 year deal with a vesting option that allows him to make $12 million per year if he stays healthy and dominant -- and if your medical staff says that he's not an unreasonable injury risk, that they can keep him healthy and on the field the next few years, why wouldn't you do it?

What are the arguments against keeping him?

Well, #1 is that the team isn't going to be any good next season, so there's no point in having Gagne.  Although if that's your position, then there's no point in trying to sign anyone this offseason, or keep anyone on the team who can be a free agent in the next couple of years.  I don't think that that is necessarily the right tack.

#2 argument is that the bullpen is already good, so there's no point in keeping Gagne and paying him big money.  And yes, the bullpen is a strength, and likely would be even if Gagne leaves.  But again...we're talking about Doctor Zhivago.  We are talking about an elite pitcher pitching 60-80 high leverage innings per year.  We talking about a difference maker, one of the best relievers in the game.  The strength of the bullpen is a justification for letting Akinori Otsuka or Joaquin Benoit go, not Gagne.

#3 argument is that the Rangers need to spend money on things other than Gagne, that they can't afford to pay Gagne and fill their other holes.  And that could be a viable argument.

But here's the thing...let's say the Rangers have a hard, $80 million budget for 2008.

The Rangers now have $33 million owed to players under contract for 2008 (Millwood, Padilla, Blalock, Young, Cat).  Mark Teixeira is, most likely, gone before 2008.  If you keep Gagne, there's a good chance you deal Otsuka, either at the deadline or this offseason.  With those two gone, you've got no significant, big dollar arbitration cases this offseason.

You sign Gagne, you've got $44 million committed in contracts for 2008 and no big arbitration cases.  

Who are you going to want to sign as a free agent that you can't afford now?

Carlos Zambrano isn't coming here, and there aren't any other free agent pitchers on the market that are anything special.  

And keep in mind, the $11 million we are talking about paying for Gagne is about what the market is for a decent #3/#4 starter on the free agent market.  

Who is going to contribute more to the Rangers winning?  Eric Gagne, or someone like Vicente Padilla, or Jeff Suppan, or Ted Lilly, or Jason Marquis, or Gil Meche...all guys who are coming in at around $11 million per year?

I'll take 70 innings from Gagne with a 1.75 ERA over 180 innings from one of those guys with the 4.50-4.75 ERA you'd be hoping for from them.

What about a centerfielder?  Torii Hunter is apparently looking for 6 years, $90 million this offseason.  Nevermind that the Rangers could afford that and Gagne, with plenty of money left over to spend on the rest of their roster this offseason...isn't Gagne a better player than Hunter, a good, not great, offensive player whose defense in centerfield is declining?  How does it make sense to say you don't want Gagne because you'd rather spend money on Hunter (or Jermaine Dye, or Andruw Jones) instead?

And haven't we learned from the last couple of offseasons that there is a huge difference between wanting a player to come to Texas, and the player actually signing here?  Maybe it is just me, but it seems like we've been burned too many times with free agents who flirt with the Rangers and would rather sign elsewhere.  I'd much rather have Gagne here than let him walk so that we can have the "financial flexibility" to see guys talk to Texas and then sign ridiculous deals elsewhere.  I'll take the bird in the hand, if we can get it.

Again, it would be one thing if we were talking about some run-of-the-mill closer, about even Francisco Cordero or someone like that.

But we're not.

We're talking about Doctor Zhivago, a guy who is one of the best handful of relievers in the league.  

I think Gagne is a good bet to be a huge difference maker the next few years.  I think can be the difference between a great Ranger bullpen and the best bullpen in the league.  And I think the Rangers can afford to sign him and add other significant pieces to the puzzle, as well.

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Yes, because
if the Rangers are going to contend the next couple of years it is going to be with an average rotation, a great bullpen, and bats.  They have the bullpen and the average rotation, now they need to get the bats.  And don't tell me the rotation sucks.  The sucked horribly for part of this season, but this 5, plus Hurley and whoever else contends for a spot next spring is at least average, talent wise.  

There are no starting pitchers available that are worth signing this winter.  And it looks like teams are not going to trade any young arms, either.  So the above is really the only realistic plan for the Rangers in the next couple years.

I'd deal Gagne if the trade return is good enough.  But like with Teixeira and Otsuka, if the return is not a good value, than keep them.  I think Otsuka is a much greater risk than Gagne as far as skills go, he's getting old.  

by t ball on Jul 22, 2007 2:36 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

#4
signing a closer with a long and severe history of injuries (2 tommy johns, lower back problems, leg issues) to a high priced multi year deal for a club that has shown its not willing to pony up to win it all is idiocy.  You dont spend 3 years 35M on a guy who has been healthy for 4 months.  u just dont.  jamey should know this, adam should know this.  

its common sense, its smart baseball.  as much as both adam and jamey show their baseball smarts so regularly, then they both go on a rampage about resigning Gagne the minute he says he's interested in being here long term.  what happened to my smart baseball guys?  i want them back.  the rangers gave seen few situations where it was so blindly obvious that trading a player was the best option.  Id even go with the argument that he should be kept, offered arb and take the picks as well since i think JD has proven he's a good drafter and im still cautious about his trading skills.   But the argument that he should not only be kept for the season but re-upped for 3-4 years for 10M+ is one of the absolute dumbest arguments ive heard come out of ppl whose baseball knowledge i respect.

what have u done with adam and jamey?  i want the real ones back, i think tom hicks kidnapped them and pull an "invasion of the body snatchers" on us.

.500 or bust!

by Jayslick on Jul 22, 2007 2:57 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

gagne's health history
He only had Tommy John once, in '97.  Lot's of guys have had the surgery and come back to be effective.  Add Gagne to that list -- his stellar seasons with the Dodgers were all post-TJ.  

The second time they went in to do a TJ, but found a pinched nerve in scar tissue instead.  They did a couple surgeries to clean up the elbow in 2005 and early 2006.  

Later in 2006 he had surgery to fix herniated disks in his back.  Lots of guys, like Randy Johnson, have recovered from that injury as well.  Johnson missed most of '96 and some of '06 with a herniated disk problem.

Gagne has been healthy for more than 4 months.  He's pitched healthy in the big leagues for 6 1/2 seasons, including the last half season.  He also missed a couple seasons due to injury.  

Is he an injury prone, fragile player, or just a guy who got hit with two major injuries in two years?  I don't see how we can decide that based on the evidence.

by LukeR on Jul 22, 2007 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with your conclusion
But that makes him a question mark still. A year or two from now, if he's stayed healthy, we'll be able to chalk it up to a couple of isolated, serious physical problems. But you're taking an expensive gamble in assuming that now or even this winter.

by Brett Perryman on Jul 22, 2007 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

let's gamble Hicks money
30 million dollars on the black.

If it hits, we are all rich.  If it comes up red, Hicks is out $30m.  Don't worry, he'll make more.

In the last 3 years, Hicks has consistently shown a willingness to spend whatever money it takes, as long as it's for quality players that want to play in Texas.  Unfortunately those have been few and far between, lately.

Sometimes he hasn't been bold enough with his bids -- c.f. Matsuzaka.  But he's been willing to gamble, and willing to shell out the bucks for FA's.  Does he have a set payroll limit?  I guess, but it doesn't seem to have played a limiting factor in the team's off-season signing efforts.

Is there a good example of a premium free agent that the team realistically could have signed, but chose not to, in the last four years?

by LukeR on Jul 22, 2007 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

x
If it comes up red, Hicks is out $30m.  Don't worry, he'll make more.

That did well for us in signing Chan Ho Park. I wouldn't underestimate the catostrophic effects of Hicks misspending a lot of money, given his temperment and up and down finances.

by Brett Perryman on Jul 22, 2007 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok, I'll grant you that
if Hicks makes a really bad call, like signing a CHoP, or signing an ARod to a monster contract then trading him away a few years later, while agreeing to still pick up a 3rd of his salary -- it can have bad effects that ripple through the franchise for years.

But I don't see a $30-40 million dollar contract for one of the premier relievers in baseball history carrying that kind of risk.

Even if he misses all of 2009, or something ... we'd still have him for 2 out of the next 3 seasons.  As long as he pitches well those two years, that's pretty good, for us.  Beggar teams cannot be choosers.    

by LukeR on Jul 22, 2007 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah but
who isn't a question mark?  Tex was our rock for the past few years, never missed a game, and bam, he's on the DL for a month.  Miguel Tejada was a rock, and bam, he's out for the year.  Every pitcher comes with risk involved...sure it's all relative, but Gagne's got as much of a chance at injury as Joe Nathan does.  pay the man if he wants to stay here, that loyalty and his resume so far do it for me
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Jul 23, 2007 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just because
a couple of guys who usually stay healthy have anecdotally gotten hurt (in Tex's case not even for that long) doesn't mean that you paint with a brush so broad as to remove any difference in risk. That's like insurance companies charging everyone the same because "anyone could die" or "anyone could get in a car accident".

Gagne carries a good deal more risk than many other top players.

by Brett Perryman on Jul 23, 2007 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

my point
isn't so much that we shouldn't be cautious, or use due dilligence by having the doctors check him out thoroughly to decide if he's worth a 3 year contract, but it is more so that anybody does carry risk.  it's true.  I wouldn't say Gagne's "prone" or "susceptible" to injury any more than somebody else, but rather that he had a two year period where everything hit at once.  he seems to have gotten over that.

but I do understand your point and I think caution and due dilligence should be given due notice, and that if we do sign him to a longer extension, we should do a pretty sizeable base salary ($8 million) with incentives that kick up to $13 million if he stays healthy?

"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Jul 24, 2007 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank You !
I'm glad people are catching on to what an amazing commodity Gagne is. I lived in L A when he had his 84 saves in a row and he was THE sports news in the city for quite a while there.
Talents like that don't come around that often and when you have talent like that that actually wants to pitch in your pitcher unfriendly sad sack of a ballpark you sure as hell keep him.
I would only trade him if you got an unbelievable return for him otherwise I'll get quite a bit of satisfaction in saying "game over" for the next 2 or 3 years every time he comes in. Theres nothing more depressing and demoralizing to a team then losing games in the  9th inning, with Gagne we don't have to worry about that 97 % of the time.
10 million , 11 million..whatever ..hes totally worth it.
0dds of being able to trade whiffy whifferson by Gil Lebreton "1000 to 1 - Good Luck Brother!"

by NYCMuscleFag on Jul 22, 2007 2:57 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Hicks' reasoning
he was THE sports news in the city

That is exactly why Hicks would be willing to lock up Gagne.  It would have very little to do with baseball logic and everything to do with filling seats.........sorry.

I remember all those playoff series the Dodgers were winning with Game Over..........oh wait, nevermind.

If weve got 11mil per season for Gangne then add another 7 per and give me Teix.

Of course no one has ever explained to me why we cant have Gagne, Hunter, and Teix?

I stand corrected

by rkh on Jul 22, 2007 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well
it's probably closer to adding another Gagne, plus it being like a 7-10 year deal. Four years at 18 million isn't getting Tex, and especially not here.

by Brett Perryman on Jul 22, 2007 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well........
I woulda rather had Teix than MY.

I Bet for MY's $ and what it would take to get Gagne I'd be well on my way to having Teix for the next 8 years.

I stand corrected

by rkh on Jul 23, 2007 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tex is as good as gone
get over it.  he doesn't want to stay, the organization won't pay to keep him, and he can't help this team win anymore than Gagne can.  he's proven that...we simply need more effective pitching before we overpay for a bat (even if his defense SHOULD be a reason that the pitching improves)
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Jul 23, 2007 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow
You think that a closer is more valuable than a .950 OPS guy that hits in the middle of the order every day.  

by badradiorules on Jul 23, 2007 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

actually
what I was implying is that I don't think we can win with Tex locked into a $20 million contract and Young locked in at his rate, taking away money we could use on a stud closer and then signing either another pitcher or a solid outfielder for the remaining amount we DON'T spend on Tex.

and what, you're going to argue that hitting is more valuable than pitching?

"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Jul 24, 2007 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes
if you are talking about closers.  A big time hitter is more valuable than a closer any day of the week.  

A big time hitter will come up to the plate over 600 times in a season and will reach base over 200 times.  

A closer will be involved in around 60-80 innings a year.  

There's no contest.

by badradiorules on Jul 25, 2007 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

having a closer who can save you..
50 games a year isn't baseball logic ? So I guess we should bring CoCo back to flub up our 9th inning then - would that make you happier ?
   You're missing the point if you think just because the Dodgers weren't winning playoff series therefore hes not a top notch reliever.. it certainly had nothing to do with Gagne.
his record with the Dodgers was historically speaking unmatched by any other reliever in HISTORY ..which part of that do you not understand? He's converted almost 97 % of his
saves possiblities ..understand that number?
0dds of being able to trade whiffy whifferson by Gil Lebreton "1000 to 1 - Good Luck Brother!"

by NYCMuscleFag on Jul 22, 2007 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the point is.......
that the Rangers have very few games to close.
Its like owning a ferrari and living on a goat ranch...awesome car, too bad you never get to drive it.

Gagne ahead of more needed parts
               =
Cart before the horse

I stand corrected

by rkh on Jul 23, 2007 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gagne missed quite a bit of time this season
and still has 14 saves.  Otsuka has what, 4?  There are only 7 relievers in the AL with more than 18 saves, which is what those two add up to.  2 of those guys are horrible (Todd Jones and Joe Borowski).  Gagne has the 2nd lowest ERA of any AL closer, and has blown 1 save all year (Putz has blown 0, Papelbon and Reyes have blown 1 each).  Everybody else has more.  how is he not valuable???
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Jul 23, 2007 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess....
You gotta be as good as Det b4 you can have a problem like Todd Jones.  He'd look just fine on our team.  I just see a closer as more of a "final piece"

You will never ride the coattails of a closer, or a bullpen for that matter, to the promised land.

Yes it sucks to blow games in the 9th

It sucks more to never be leading going into the 9th.

Oh yeah.......I happen to think that our bullpen would still be pretty good without Gagne

I stand corrected

by rkh on Jul 23, 2007 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed.
our bullpen would still be "pretty good."  but the reason our team contended in 2004 was because our rotation was SLIGHTLY below average, and our bullpen was amazing (comparing the two) and picked up the slack...and we had a pretty good offense of course.  The thing is, if we discover that next year, Hurley's ready or close to it, McCarthy improves enough to be reliable, Millwood and Padilla come back fully healthy and in last season's form, and we have a 5th guy (Loe, Tejeda, Rupe, etc.) step up, if everything magically falls into place, and we haven't done what it takes to make sure our bullpen is airtight, then we've failed to lay the groundwork to succeed
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Jul 24, 2007 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

leveraged wins
But every win is precious, and if the Rangers can add an outfield bat or two of significance before April, Gagne's value goes up considerably.  All they need next year is for the starters to keep the team in the game for 5 or 6 innings.  If they keep Gagne, which I still doubt, then the next step is to get bats.

by t ball on Jul 23, 2007 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A lot of ifs
Hit me in the eye...maybe I can see better.

by Clueless on Jul 23, 2007 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not really
Two really good outfield bats would go a long way to make this team competitive next year.  It is no stretch to imagine the Rangers winning 85 games or so next year if the outfield is upgraded.  If Daniels doesn't do well this week then forget it.

by t ball on Jul 23, 2007 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As long as the two outfield bats were
Babe Ruth and Barry Bonds in their prime.

by DJCahill on Jul 23, 2007 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Free Agents
Teixeira's comment about the Red Socks and Yankees adding all stars every year, tells me what free agents are looking for in a franchise (besides money).  If the Rangers sign Gagne and Hunter, 2 former all stars, other free agents will start to look at the Rangers as a potential signing place.

I personally get tired of the Rangers getting looked down upon like the fat girl at prom that nobody wants to dance with.  That's what free agents see in the Rangers and that's why everyone uses them as bargaining chips in the off season to drive up other teams' contracts.

The down side is of course if the contract turns into an albatross.  The Yankees and Red Socks can out spend their mistakes.  The Rangers cannot.  If Gagne isn't healthy, it will come back to bite us.  The only thing they can do is trust their medical staff and hope for the best.

Derek

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on Jul 22, 2007 3:29 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

LOL...the fat prom girl comment...so true...
YEP lets sign Gagne and go after Hunter...with the addition of Hurley and perhaps another quality starter for the Tex trade this team will be competitive next year. Why on earth would you want to trade amazing players for 50 cents on the dollar that may or not pan out in a few years.. we're tired of waiting to win..the Rangers tried the rebuilding game several years ago already and it didnt work.. if you trade off marquee players just for the sake of "rebuilding" the fat girls not only going to be fatter but shes gonna have a mustache and sideburns too !
0dds of being able to trade whiffy whifferson by Gil Lebreton "1000 to 1 - Good Luck Brother!"

by NYCMuscleFag on Jul 22, 2007 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

True Romance
Great film. James Gandolfini was in that, too.

As for Gagne, I'd like to keep him as well. When healthy, he's an elite pitcher. How many of those have the Rangers had lately?

"Then I met some friends for a beer, went to a BoDeans's concert, and son of a vondruke, if I didn't leave him at the concert hall."

by RCCook on Jul 22, 2007 3:44 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That film
One of my all time faves. I think we had a good talk about this movie last year.

Hopper and Walken...one of the most electric scenes ever filmed.

I read recently that Gandolfini's performance in True Romance was what piqued The Sopranos' casting director's interest. Evidently, he was second choice after Ray Liotta. Interesting.

I'm really surprised at your take on this, Adam. This position is what I have been leaning towards for awhile, but I figured I was being fanboyish and impractical.

If the Scoot stays mute, you must commute.

by Brian Thomas on Jul 22, 2007 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You have to remember
Adam is a big optimist at heart when it comes to the Rangers. Deep down I would suspect that he holds out more hope than most of us that there are moves to be made and things that could happen to make this a playoff contender next season.

by Brett Perryman on Jul 22, 2007 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

my weakness
as well.  If only they can get 2 or 3 big bats between now and spring training!  Well, hopefully Botts counts as one, then they just need an outfielder or two...

by t ball on Jul 22, 2007 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I keep thinking that the SP
would improve dramatically if we can just put together a solid defense behind them.

So, if we can find some outfielders that are big bats, and also plus defenders - I could buy into some significant improvement over the next couple of years.

Me and Billy the Kid never got along. I didn't like the way he cocked his hat and he wore his gun all wrong.

by tricer on Jul 22, 2007 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

fanboyism
I figured I was being fanboyish and impractical

It sucks that certain strategies or attitudes, like liking some aspect of the team we've got now, or thinking that we might be able to win someday, are viewed on this board as "fanboyish."

Maybe that's what you have to expect in a fan community of a team that has been as bad as this one, for as long as it has been (i.e., since it's inception).

But it still sucks.

by LukeR on Jul 22, 2007 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even if injury prone,
I take Gagne.  Say he's out a bit, like this year.  With our BP depth, we can handle it.  I'd love to see him re-up.
Eph. 2:3

by TedFord on Jul 22, 2007 4:05 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd have no reservations about keeping him
if we were a little better. That's not to say that I'm afraid to spend big money on great players before we're really good. That would be dumb. It's that I'm afraid to spend big money for several years on someone whose health I seem to be a little more worried about than you, given his age and all, who isn't a starter or elite hitter.

But I'm not going to gripe if they extend Gagne. Heck, I'm not going to gripe if they try to re-sign him, fail, and just let him walk (as long as he is a Type A). He's right up there with Pudge as one of the coolest guys we've had on this club in a long time.

by Brett Perryman on Jul 22, 2007 4:43 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Gagne intangibles
I'm moving more toward the "extend Gagne" camp. Just a few intangibles that he brings:

He's probably one of the ten most recognizable players in the game for the casual fan and I know that he's not an everyday player that fans can expect to come out and see, but he definitely has plenty of marketing potential.

I envision CJ learning from him and blossoming into one of the league's elite setup men and be poised to take over as a closer in 3-4 years.

Watching him pitch is just pure baseball joy.

by Randy Richardson on Jul 22, 2007 5:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Good Point !!!
theres no better mentor than Gagne for our young relievers.. that change up is priceless...if he can teach that to C J and others.. and hes saving 50 games a year along the way..we'd be silly not to sign him.
0dds of being able to trade whiffy whifferson by Gil Lebreton "1000 to 1 - Good Luck Brother!"

by NYCMuscleFag on Jul 22, 2007 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am all for signing Gagne....
I just hope that what he said is true, and not more Boras crap just so that he dosen't get traded and put in a situation where he is not closing....making us again feel used.

However here is something I haven't seen talked about much. What if all of this "extending Gagne" talk is just leverage by JD to get the best deal possible....considering a few weeks ago it looked like Gagne was for sure gone, teams could try to low-ball us knowing our only option was to take the best deal. If we are showing that we are willing to resign him, now teams not only have to make the best offer but also make the trade juicy enough to change our minds about resigning him.

Is this just JD playing the media game much like the other GM's saying JD is asking for too much.

by clinton33 on Jul 22, 2007 6:17 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Samuel L. Jackson
don't forget him, he was at the pimp's house when Christian Slater went to confront Gary Oldman...

and Bronson Pinchot (Balki Bartokomous from Perfect Strangers), Tom Sizemore, the late Chris Penn, and many more...apparently, Jack Black had a scene in it but it was taken out.

by the way, how has Slater gone nutso?

"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Jul 23, 2007 11:27 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Jackson
No he wasn't.

He had already been blasted by Drexel (Oldman) during the carpet-munching discussion/drug deal.

The guy that was with Oldman was the same guy that was there when they shot Samuel L. and his padner. One of many great lines:

Drexel: He musta thought it was whiteboy day. Is it whiteboy day?

Big-boned brother: Nah, man. It ain't whiteboy day.

I will not get my comeuppance!

by Brian Thomas on Jul 23, 2007 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ehh
it's been a while since I've seen it...good call
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Jul 24, 2007 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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