Gagne to the BoSox?

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 31, 2007 2:01 PM CDT in News Comment 179 comments

I get back from lunch, and discover that Ken Rosenthal is reporting that the BoSox and Rangers have agreed on a deal for Eric Gagne, pending Gagne's waiving his no-trade clause.

Rosenthal says it is Kason Gabbard and something else.

Bleah to Gabbard, a 25 year old lefty who couldn't crack BA's top 30 prospects for the BoSox last season, and seems like another John Koronka to me.

Update [2007-7-31 15:41:17 by Adam J. Morris]: -- Rosenthal identifies the players:

The Red Sox are on the verge of winning the Eric Gagne sweepstakes, pending his approval and a review of his medical records, according to major-league sources. Gagne must waive his no-trade clause to Boston for the deal to be completed. It is possible the Red Sox will allow him to share the closer's role with Jonathan Papelbon. The Rangers would receive left-hander Kason Gabbard, Class AAA center fielder David Murphy and Class A outfielder Engel Beltre, sources say. Beltre is just 17 years old.

Murphy and Gabbard are pretty bleah. Beltre is a the real prize, I'm guessing, a 17 year old who is playing in the Gulf Coast League. I'm sure zywica will have some thoughts on Beltre later on today...

Update [2007-7-31 15:54:11 by Adam J. Morris]: -- Having thought about it, and looking at the numbers, I'm maybe coming around a little on Murphy. He's supposedly a plus defensive centerfielder, and his numbers against righthanded pitchers this season in AAA have been pretty solid. He might be a useful tag-team partner for Marlon Byrd in center for 2008 or fourth outfielder. Might.

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Comments

yea along with

david murphy and some guy named angel beltre(i think)

by Lonerangers on Jul 31, 2007 1:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Supposed to be

some 16 year old phenom

by slimshadty12 on Jul 31, 2007 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

5-tool

17 year old outfielder Engel Beltre

Lick by lick, mountains erode

by RangerMoto on Jul 31, 2007 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

any other info on him

i saw he's hitting .200 in rookie league. And i saw what they said about him on sons of sam horn. But does he have that same PECOTA projection. I'd like to see that.

by Lonerangers on Jul 31, 2007 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

does PECOTA even project that young?

Lick by lick, mountains erode

by RangerMoto on Jul 31, 2007 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure

that's why i was asking

by Lonerangers on Jul 31, 2007 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Beltre is...

a 16 year old OF playing in the rookie leagues...wow.

Let the trading frenzy begin!!!

by ortonius on Jul 31, 2007 1:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

And the Teixeira deal is final

Lick by lick, mountains erode

by RangerMoto on Jul 31, 2007 1:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

i am unimpressed

a good gagne deal and getting nothing from sosa or wilk would have finished off this deadline in an impressive fashion by JD.

meh.

by DSheppard on Jul 31, 2007 1:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

true but why would anyone trade for sosa

when they can pick him up tomorrow when he gets released?

by dubman on Jul 31, 2007 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe Eric

will say no.

by Longhorn on Jul 31, 2007 1:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

nevermind.

by Longhorn on Jul 31, 2007 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Found this...

http://www.dr1.com/forums/dominican-baseball/51877-2006-international-signing-date.html

Angel Beltre, OF, Dominicana (16)
A left-handed hitter with extra-base power. He has a powerful throwing arm and plays great defense in the outfield.

Let the trading frenzy begin!!!

by ortonius on Jul 31, 2007 1:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

and below was this...

Beltre reportedly received a $600,000 bonus and Tejeda got $550,000. The 16-year-olds were ranked second and fourth, respectively, on ESPN's ranking of the newly available Latin American prospects. Beltre is a left-handed hitter and center fielder with power potential. Tejeda is a toolsy shortstop with a big-time arm.

Let the trading frenzy begin!!!

by ortonius on Jul 31, 2007 1:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Not good

I would have rather kept Gagne and gotten the two draft picks, I think.

Gabbard and Murphy sound like depth guys to me.

Hopefully Beltre will pan out, but 16 is a long way from the major leagues.

by bflood36 on Jul 31, 2007 1:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

two draft picks

the compensation was not a given from what I have read... Elias uses the previous two years to determine the rankings and since he didn't pitch much last year, I think there is still some question as to whether he'd be a Type A.

by Brandon Wilson on Jul 31, 2007 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It takes

times missed for injury into account, so it would have reverted to the last healthy season. so yeah, he would have been A.

by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2007 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not completely given....

Baseball changed from top 30% = type A, to top 20% = type A.

And Gagne was rated as 69-70 last year.

Of course, I'm thinking even a type B compensation would have been better than this dreck....

Gabbard, Murphy and a 17 yo who's batting .200?

Bleh.

Gabbard = Koronka. David Murphy is a COF who's BEST year in the minors was .267/.355/.447, and a 17 yo will likely take longer to get to the majors than a supplemental pick probably would....

I think JD screwed the pooch on this one. He was pushing too hard on the Mets and Yankees, then when they both pulled out got desperate in the end.

I like the Linebrink return MUCH, MUCH better.

-Inman, 20yo pitcher, likely the top Brewer prospect after Gallardo and Braun.
-Thatcher, a RP who had a K/9 of 11.69 and BB/9 of
2.25 in the minors.
-Garrison, 20 yo decent prospect in A+

In fact, I think I like each of those prospects BETTER than any of the prospects that we got for Gagne.....

JD gets an F for this trade.

Req

by Requiem on Jul 31, 2007 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gagne

If injury time is taken into account in the Elias Rankings how does Gagne slip to where he was...

Anyway, I agree that the return on Linebrink was better (much much better), but I also think Milwaukee got SCREWED badly in that trade, so I'm not sure that's a fair baseline.

This trade is only palatable to me if Gagne was not going to be a type "A" OR if this Gabbard is Koronka + consistent control. Murphy sucks. The kid I know nothing about other than he got a big bonus.

by Brandon Wilson on Jul 31, 2007 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That does make a difference....

I wonder where a player like Beltre would project in a draft 1-2 seasons away?

by bflood36 on Jul 31, 2007 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i wish ppl...

would calm down about getting a 16 year old... Would you rather have another 25 year old scrub thrown in or a player like Beltre who at least has the potential to be a star five tool player?

rage against the gold club

by erikj07 on Jul 31, 2007 1:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

id rather

have Inman or Humber

by kumar75150 on Jul 31, 2007 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

are those

my only two choices?

buffering....

by SteveP on Jul 31, 2007 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Choice C

get the equivalent of Michael Main and Julio Bourbon 10 months later.

by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2007 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

exactly

No way that I would trade Main/Borbon for Gabbard/Murphy.

Couple of wildcards though:

Boras has a reputation of including no-arb clauses in his clients contracts (Pudge, Kenny). If Gagne had one of those, we would have lost him for no compensation.

The Latin teen could eventually be something.

Me and Billy the Kid never got along. I didn't like the way he cocked his hat and he wore his gun all wrong.

by tricer on Jul 31, 2007 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't want

..any 25 year old scrubs at all.

Beltre does give this deal a ray of hope, though.

by bflood36 on Jul 31, 2007 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ya

when i start going bald and looking for minivans

by kumar75150 on Jul 31, 2007 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It is a ray from a star

250,000,000,000 light years away.

by bflood36 on Jul 31, 2007 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

gay

just super super gay

by kumar75150 on Jul 31, 2007 1:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Beltre?

Wow. Not bad...

by Longhorn on Jul 31, 2007 2:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

we

need a new poll

by kumar75150 on Jul 31, 2007 2:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

fire

jd poll

by dubman on Jul 31, 2007 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

engel beltre

was signed last year as a 16 year old. he is now 17. turns 18 in november. hitting .215 at GCL. hitting .243 last 10 games. 5 homers so far. 6'1"
170 lbs. OBP is at .315.

looks very promising. not too high on murphy. we will see with gabbard the rest of the season. initially doesn't look great, but could look back on this as a really good trade.

by mo on Jul 31, 2007 2:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

gabbard

i just hope how he has pitched this year is the NEW gabbard and can keep that up.

by kumar75150 on Jul 31, 2007 2:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

David Murphy

Lick by lick, mountains erode

by RangerMoto on Jul 31, 2007 2:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Gabbard and Belre ok

But this guy just looks like a strait pussy. I think I just beat up this kid in world of warcraft.

by TexGoesYard on Jul 31, 2007 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ha

a world of warcraft player calling somebody a pussy.

by rbarton on Jul 31, 2007 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He used to be good....

at Baylor.

2003 Baylor .413/.487/.614, picked 17th in the draft

GMJ candidate.

People rarely live up to their baby pictures.

by rooster on Jul 31, 2007 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

girly swing

that is an ugly follow thru.

Me and Billy the Kid never got along. I didn't like the way he cocked his hat and he wore his gun all wrong.

by tricer on Jul 31, 2007 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Engel Beltre

Lick by lick, mountains erode

by RangerMoto on Jul 31, 2007 2:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Damn

he's so good he's levitating the bat with his mind. OOH AAHHHH

by Lonerangers on Jul 31, 2007 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

from the Boston Globe

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/thebuzz/

Confirming reports on Foxsports.com and SI.com, a source with direct knowledge of the negotiations told the Globe's Gordon Edes that a trade between the Red Sox and Rangers for reliever Eric Gagne is moving forward. However, the source said, there are still issues to be overcome, including the fact that Gagne must waive his no-trade clause for the deal to go through. One potential stumbling block there is that Gagne wants to be a closer. That job is obviously taken by Jonathan Papelbon. Another hurdle is how to handle Gagne's incentive clauses. According to Foxsports.com, Gagne has $3.65 million in potential bonuses for games finished remaining on this deal. It's possible that he wants those bonuses guaranteed before he approves the deal. According to ESPN.com's Jayson Stark, the Sox would send outfield prospect David Murphy and pitcher Kason Gabbard to Texas. A source with direct knowledge of the talks only confirmed that Gabbard has been part of the discussion.

They have made many stories created on their own dreams.

by LukeR on Jul 31, 2007 2:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Kason Gabbard

Lick by lick, mountains erode

by RangerMoto on Jul 31, 2007 2:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I love everybody on here

Who acts like they are sitting by the phone at the end of the 1-800-dial-a-GM hotline waiting for the call up.

Most of you assholes are not even fully clothed right now. So lets go ahead and wait untill they suck in a Ranger uniform before you prematurely ejaculate on the cat again.

by TexGoesYard on Jul 31, 2007 2:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Prediction

you'll be calling for us to DFA gabbard this time next year.

by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2007 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If he sucks

Then yes I definatly will

by TexGoesYard on Jul 31, 2007 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You

bring nothing to the table. You talk like a 15 year old idiot.

Ephesians 1:3-10

by kwellborn on Jul 31, 2007 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Incorrect

22, just with the maturity level of a 15 year old.

by TexGoesYard on Jul 31, 2007 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What do you know,

we agree on something.

Ephesians 1:3-10

by kwellborn on Jul 31, 2007 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

damn dude

I really am half naked ....

R4N63R D4N63R

by OkieFromMuskogee on Jul 31, 2007 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

x

best post in the thread.

by HacksawJimDuggan on Jul 31, 2007 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Beltre is still older than me by two months! OHH YEAHH

"I wanted to punch him with every fist on my body!"

by miles on Jul 31, 2007 2:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Per Newberg: 5th player in Tex deal

T.R. Sullivan of MLB.com reports that the Mark Teixeira trade has been finalized, with lefthander Matt Harrison being confirmed as the fourth player - and a fifth player, Class A lefthander Beau Jones, being added to the deal as well. Jones has gone 5-0, 2.96 with three saves for Low A Rome (48.2 innings, 38 hits, 12 walks, 46 strikeouts) and 0-0, 15.26 in five appearances for High A Myrtle Beach. The hard-throwing reliever was a first-round pick in 2005 (41st overall) out of a Louisiana high school0, 2.96

by sprite on Jul 31, 2007 2:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Nice..

Keeps getting Better...

"I wanted to punch him with every fist on my body!"

by miles on Jul 31, 2007 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

WOW!!

impressive JD

Duncan Hunter for President in '08

by dstar442005 on Jul 31, 2007 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Damn

i think i'll take that. I'm not sure 'bout harrison, but jones looks like a solid addition.

by Lonerangers on Jul 31, 2007 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

nice

I guess JD held up final approval of this deal to blackmail the Braves out of another prospect. Nice. I wish the Braves had told him to stick it.

by AmosM on Jul 31, 2007 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And...

...you are basing your repeated opinion on what?

The depressing thing about tennis is that no matter how good I get, I'll never be as good as a wall.

by Suicide Prince on Jul 31, 2007 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good

It there's one thing the Rangers need, it's more people named Beau.

by BAC on Jul 31, 2007 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

^^^^^^^^ WOW!

they got an extra 1st rounder high school kid from them? thats amazing. that makes the deal look a lot better, i change my vote in the poll to A- from B+. thats a heck of a 5th guy. think about that FIVE GUYS. thats jaw dropping. its the hershal walker deal. 5 for 1 is a deal that just doesnt happen anymore.

any1 know the last 5 for 1 trade to go down.

with jones, i count all of those guys as people who can contribute in major ways. Neftali throws 98 and is 19 and gonna be in high a, Salty is a switch hitting catcher with power (think about the value of switch hitting catcher! awesome), but wait, we also get the most widely viewed phenon SS whose 18 and in high A, a solid (not my favorite but a good solid pitcher in harrison whose not old (#3 on braves by BA) and Beau Jones, he was #10 on the braves prospect list. he destroyed in SAL but struggled in Myrtle Beach. but he only started 1 time and has 5 appearances so chances are he's just adjusting.

what a steal. seems like to me at least. best trade at unloading our talent i think ive ever seen. very impressed.

.500 or bust!

by Jayslick on Jul 31, 2007 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

poor mahay

he just cant get any respect.

5 for 2 trade

I stand corrected

by rkh on Jul 31, 2007 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is there

any chance Gagne voids this trade? BGL has said numerous times on this site that Gagne would not set up for anyone, but Mariano Rivera. Do the Red Sox really want to risk hurting their relationship with Papelbon by moving to a set up role? Gagne can't assume the Red Sox are going to let him close.

Ephesians 1:3-10

by kwellborn on Jul 31, 2007 2:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Id rather setup

Papeldouche than Mariano.

Not to mention RedSox=Playoffs
Yankees = Hell

by TexGoesYard on Jul 31, 2007 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't

think Gagne asked you which you would rather and neither did CJ Wilson who maid the statement. It is good to know who you would close for, though.

Ephesians 1:3-10

by kwellborn on Jul 31, 2007 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

when...

...you need someone to clean your house, do you call a made service?

Lick by lick, mountains erode

by RangerMoto on Jul 31, 2007 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

good one

That took me a second. I was thinking, what is this guy talking about? My mistake.

Ephesians 1:3-10

by kwellborn on Jul 31, 2007 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Engel stats

he's very young by a mile even for rookie ball, but here's his line:

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Engel%20Beltre&pos=OF&sid=milb& ;t=p_pbp&pid=520976

a couple things of note:

-this has AJ Prellor writtin all over it, latin scouting going and getting a guy they missed out on not long ago
-he was the 2nd ranked by ESPN in Latin signings, think Yan and Christian Santana potential
- he was the highest price the sox have ever spent on a latin signing.
-his obp is pretty high considering his BA. looks like he has good discipline and projectable power.

this kid gives us another Andrus basically, but who can play CF and hit for power. some day.

i love the snaffle up of really young prospects. this totally changes the trades make up.

this kid is the key. pretty wild.

.500 or bust!

by Jayslick on Jul 31, 2007 2:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

looks like his best tool

is his youth...

buffering....

by SteveP on Jul 31, 2007 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the thing u gotta keep in mind is

that this is really these 16-18 year old fellas who are coming over from there cup of coffee in our DSL's 1st real life inside organized baseball in any form. these guys are in serious adjustment (think your first semester of college, if you were 16 or 17. im just saying be patient. even our best young kids the youngest who are in AZL are struggling to adapt. honestly it takes time.

look at those nummber he looks like hitting is the key but if u look at his power and his SB's. he looks like he can be something really special. he's special.

man, ive been thinking about this, and i think we probably have to have one of the strongest low minors in baseball at this point just talent-wise.

AZL:
Engel Beltre
Michael Main
Wilmer Font
Cristian Santana
Emmanuel Solis
Miguel Velazquez

NOR:
Fabio Castillo
Jacob Brigham
Keisuke Ueno <<<< i like this kid. we stole him from japan like 2 seasons ago, not sure how.
Johan Yan
Eric Fry
Neftali Feliz

MID:
Kasey Kiker
Zachary Phillips
Omar Poveda
Manuel Pina
Marcus Lemon
K.C. Herren
David Paisano

CAL:
Beau Jones
Elvis Andrus
John Whittleman
Max Ramirez

that list is all below AA and it doesnt include Beaven and Ramirez Nash Borbon who havent signed. thats really impressive.

i like that JD has decided to build the system from the ground up. total rebuild. you can see his mark on this team for a long time now. the youth he has accumulated is very impressive. one can only assume that with a continued emphasis on youth and filling the system completely at every level with talent will reward this team with success for a long time to come. finally a direction can be seen. the andrus and beltre and feliz add serious high ceiling potential to this franchise. im gonna stop now. needless to say, im impressed with the job jd has done.

btw, murphy is a classic buy low. he gets on base, can play defense at 3 OF spots, maybe rudy can fix him and raise his BA. he was highly thought of at one point. im not crazy about gabbard and murphy but in understand why murphy was of interest.

.500 or bust!

by Jayslick on Jul 31, 2007 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good point

Only thing I see wrong is that Beau Jones is going to Clinton, at least that is what I read.

by uthornfan on Jul 31, 2007 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

interesting

Thanks for the info.

by hubcityraider on Jul 31, 2007 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

since we have nothing to play for

bring up elvis and engel

by kumar75150 on Jul 31, 2007 2:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I'll be interested to here what the final trade is

so far, this doesn't sound much better than 2 draft picks.

by DJCahill on Jul 31, 2007 2:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

if beltre is part of the deal..

this is a steal for the rangers...
I saw Beltre workouts here in Santo Domingo.. he is great..
and it is hungry of being a new dominican star.

Engel

by engelsol on Jul 31, 2007 2:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Damn

Already rockin the username? Impressive.

by TexGoesYard on Jul 31, 2007 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

no.

that is my name

by engelsol on Jul 31, 2007 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ESPN just raved

about Gabbard. Said he's a Jimmy Key starter kit. Also said the Rangers got great value. Hmmmm.

"If you cut your own firewood it'll warm you twice."

by HaoleKlaus on Jul 31, 2007 2:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

if it's from ESPN...

...believe the opposite

Lick by lick, mountains erode

by RangerMoto on Jul 31, 2007 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

whatever....

id rather have Engel Beltre alone over our draft picks for Gange

rage against the gold club

by erikj07 on Jul 31, 2007 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know

the guys at ESPN are pretty big Red Sox fans. They may have the inside information on him.

Either that or they are being good Red Sox fans and are trying to convince everyone that the Red Sox are a great team to trade all of your talent to.

Ephesians 1:3-10

by kwellborn on Jul 31, 2007 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well you see my friend

The all knowing, all seeing, MASTERS of all that is baseball here on LSB have already declared that he is a total waste. So pretty much might as well get ready to get the pitch forks and torches, and kill his ass.

I mean, its just the way it goes.

by TexGoesYard on Jul 31, 2007 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

change

that to a 12 yr old.

If you really think Kruk and Gammons know wtf they are talking about.

by kumar75150 on Jul 31, 2007 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha

who are we kidding, John Kruk has no idea who any of these guys save Eric Gagne is.

by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2007 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh no

I dont put any stock in what they say at ALL.

But, still more stock than I put into most of any of you guys on here, is my point.

by TexGoesYard on Jul 31, 2007 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because the folks on LSB

were so damned wrong about the Chris Young/Adam Eaton trade.

We should just believe that the Rangers always make the right trade everytime they make one and ignore our own opinions, because JD never does any wrong.

by DJCahill on Jul 31, 2007 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

See here is what annoys me

Everybody uses this damn negativity as a defense mechanism for their own personal well-being.

They are negative from the get go, that way if what they say does happen, they can drop the "SEE, GOD I KNEW ALL ALONG, I TOLD ALL OF YOU!!! I SHOULD BE GM?!?!"

And if they happen to be wrong, and they turn out good nobody cares, because the rangers are doing good.

Give it a damn chance, untill they suck in a rangers uniform.

by TexGoesYard on Jul 31, 2007 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Isn't it enough

that they've sucked in another uniform? And we got them for someone who didn't suck in a Rangers uniform?

Given how well JD has drafted, is there any reason to think that Engel Beltre will turn out better than the two draft picks we would have gotten for Gagne?

by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2007 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Understandable

But what if they do good for the Rangers, wouldnt you be happy?

by TexGoesYard on Jul 31, 2007 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would

definately, but I'd also be shocked. Cause it'd be an honest surprise if either of those two players bucked their career trends and not suck. If you're running a team, you shouldn't be trading a guy who obviously doesn't suck for two players who you hope doesn't suck.

by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2007 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i like how....

you completely ignore the centerpiece of the deal, Engel Beltre. Whatever though, you obviously know that none of these players will amount to anything that would justify Gange for two worthless months to close the season.

rage against the gold club

by erikj07 on Jul 31, 2007 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So be a brainless sheep?

Don't think for yourself, just believe the team is always right, until it is obvious to even the village idiot that they screwed up. I guess that is one way to go through life. Good luck with it.

by DJCahill on Jul 31, 2007 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Im NOT fucking saying

To believe the team is right. Just reserve judgement for awhile untill they get a chance to play.

I want Jason Botts to play more than anything for this team, but if he sucks, im going to be the first one to request that they DFA his ass.

I love "good luck with that" such intensity! Your point was ramped up with that at the end.

by TexGoesYard on Jul 31, 2007 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The problem

I think most people on here talking shit have no idea what they are talking about. They don't know much about any of the three players, least of all the kid, nor do they know what other options were out there for Gagne. Their knee jerk reaction was to slam it for some reason, and act like this is the end of the world and/or JD should be fired. That is absurd.

But that river of tears has dried for all of us.

by trza on Jul 31, 2007 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

One dude is saying

that and his retardation has long been established.

What we are saying is that it's a stupid trade.

by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2007 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So

how long do you think we are going to be waiting on TexgoesYard (the village idiot) to also think this is not the best deal for Gagne?

Ephesians 1:3-10

by kwellborn on Jul 31, 2007 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you got that right

optimism = homerism

equanimity = lack of credibility

skepticism = potential for insight

negativity = perspicuity

cynicism = wisdom

They have made many stories created on their own dreams.

by LukeR on Jul 31, 2007 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gabbard

is the key to this deal. Nothin about him says he is going to be much other than his performance this year. If he can keep pitching like he is right now, lets just pray.

I guess he goes in the rotation right away.

by kumar75150 on Jul 31, 2007 2:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

i think

beltre is a pretty damn big part of the deal

rage against the gold club

by erikj07 on Jul 31, 2007 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i guess

im not too big on guys that wont be here for 5 years if they actually make it

by kumar75150 on Jul 31, 2007 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well...

i agree that he is an extreme projection, but at least in the trade we received a potential 5 tool CF with terrific upside. Obviously it would be nice to get a guy close to the club now but i think Beltre is a substantial part of the trade. What im saying is i think he is more than just a throw in

rage against the gold club

by erikj07 on Jul 31, 2007 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So would...

Gabbard go straight to the majors and take Jamey Wright's spot?

Let the trading frenzy begin!!!

by ortonius on Jul 31, 2007 2:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

he is already

in the Sox rotation. How could the rangers possibly send him to AAA?

by kumar75150 on Jul 31, 2007 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It is our...

...elite pitching. No room for him...

</sarcasm>

by bjtaylor on Jul 31, 2007 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that post was elite

Lmao

by corbsclinton on Jul 31, 2007 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i agree...

he has to be in the rotation. I guess he takes Wrights spot

rage against the gold club

by erikj07 on Jul 31, 2007 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

because

Jamey Wright has electric stuff

by Brandon Wilson on Jul 31, 2007 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes Gabbard

is the key throw in to catch the A's for third place. If we're lucky we can get 16th place again so we can lose another 1st round pick when we sign Eric Byrnes to 5 years, 100 million ;)

by slimshadty12 on Jul 31, 2007 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

anyone

is better then jamey not wright

R4N63R D4N63R

by OkieFromMuskogee on Jul 31, 2007 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

is there a worse franchise than the Rangers

right now?

Probably the Nationals. Maybe the Royals. Id rather be a Devil Rays fan.

by kumar75150 on Jul 31, 2007 2:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

devil rays

lead the majors in like errors, Runs not batted in......Runs giving up and more

R4N63R D4N63R

by OkieFromMuskogee on Jul 31, 2007 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

at least they have

kazmir, delmon young, upton, etc to look forward to

+ shields and crawford

by kumar75150 on Jul 31, 2007 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

also

carlos pena, harris, and baldelli

by kumar75150 on Jul 31, 2007 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's retarded

you've officially crossed the line between being reasonably upset and being retarded.

Congratulations.

There are worse organizations than the Rangers, the Astros for one.

by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2007 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is anything better in Houston?

I can't think of anything

by shallrelicme on Jul 31, 2007 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, if you're looking

to get stabbed, I heard there's a better success rate there.

by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2007 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not to mention

plenty of available parking at their stadiums and lots of leg room when you attend a game.

by Taylor on Jul 31, 2007 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

to

look forward to trading away to the Yankees and to losing in free agency.

Ephesians 1:3-10

by kwellborn on Jul 31, 2007 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

True

Too bad they wont have enough money to keep them

R4N63R D4N63R

by OkieFromMuskogee on Jul 31, 2007 2:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Good Deal

First, I like Gagne. He has proven he can pitch in any game that is within 4 runs and requires only 1.0 IP. Anything above is well... eh? Benoit and CJ Wilson have stepped up this year, are MUCH cheaper, and hopefully can sustain the closer and middle/setup roles. We are not going to win this year. We could string together a great run next year, and win something next year, but our goal is 2008. Our farm system just got injected with 5+ players from these two deals, most with very high ceilings. And we gave up a Borasprick and a closer who we could potentially resign after this year, which we were going to have to do anyway at his new asking price. So, the endgame with Gagne doesn't change, we might re-sign him at the end of the year for market value. However, we have received decent to good players in return for what is veritably a 2.5 month loan to the Sox, barring a contract extension there. I doubt that, Gagne will want a full contract (long term) to close somewhere.

by bjtaylor on Jul 31, 2007 2:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

You mean

like the time when he protected the lead in Boston and got the top 4 hitters in their order?

Gagne has proved that he can protect ANY lead. Let's not degrade a very good player in order to make ourselves feel better about the crappy, awful return we got for him.

by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2007 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not...

...degrading Gagne. I love Gagne! I really shouldn't have mentioned the first part, as it isn't the substance of my argument anyhow. And I meant 2009. I just think our return in this trade is greater than our return with 2 draft picks later, and we still are in the relative same situation to re-sign him.

by bjtaylor on Jul 31, 2007 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Except

we'll give up 2 draft picks if we resign Gagne. Not to mention that our FO has actually done pretty well in drafts.

Put it this way, what would you rather have, Michael Main and Julio Bourbon or David Murphy and Kason Gabbard?

by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2007 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why are refusing to acknowledge this Beltre kid???

He's obviously the key to the trade.

by slimshadty12 on Jul 31, 2007 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah ok

if we traded Johan Yan, Kevin Mahar and John Rheniecker for Joe Nathan, would you be here telling me that the Twins didn't get jobbed?

by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2007 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

no... BUT

id rather have BELTRE, Gabbard, and Murphy the two draft picks

rage against the gold club

by erikj07 on Jul 31, 2007 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed...

Beltre is probably equivelant to a first round pick...and I'd say Gabbard and Murphy are worth more to us then a sandwich pick considering they both can help our team immediately.

by slimshadty12 on Jul 31, 2007 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i agree...

initially when the deal was reported and we were just getting murphy and gabbard, i was pissed. But Engel Beltre is the real catch in this deal and i think its a pretty fair deal for both sides

rage against the gold club

by erikj07 on Jul 31, 2007 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ok, ive accepted it.

not that bad. not great but not that bad.

I think I'd give the overall deadline a B+.

by DSheppard on Jul 31, 2007 2:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Wait, wait, wait...

So, we get three prospects from the Red Sox so that they can have a 2+ month rental of Gagne (I can't imagine Gagne resigning with the Red Sox if he's stuck in a setup role or sharing the save role) when the Red Sox already have a perfectly-servicable closer?

So, why the hell are Red Sox fans saying we got fleeced? Seriously, what am I missing?

Is everybody ready for diving?

by RadicalBender on Jul 31, 2007 2:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

We didn't get three prospects

we got two AAA depth players and 1 teenager.

by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2007 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gabbard

too early to call him a career AAA guy, why doesn't everyone just give him a chance?

by sprite on Jul 31, 2007 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Firebat...

what the hell did you expect in return? I mean the "1 teenager" you are referring to seems to be a very good player. For a two month rental i think this is a fair return.

rage against the gold club

by erikj07 on Jul 31, 2007 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You mean

the dude who's hitting .200 in the GCL? That's not a good player, that's a guy with the potential to be a good player, there's a world of difference.

by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2007 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

okay....

i dont think you have any clue about whether or not Beltre is good or not. And the "world of difference" between a player with the potential to be good compared to an actual good player that you refer to is hilarious because your reasoning for not making the trade is that you would rather have the draft picks... The draft is the ultimate crapshoot. I can only laugh at your reasoning behind your disapproval of the trade.

rage against the gold club

by erikj07 on Jul 31, 2007 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No the ultimate crap shoot

is 17 year old players who can't bat above the Mendoza line in the GCL. But look out, they got tools!

by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2007 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

obviously....

you are just an arrogant dumbass who has no way to back up the absurd things which you are stating. But whatever, you obviously know that Beltre won't amount to anything because he is 17 and you know that our draft picks that we would've gotten for Gange would be great players based on absolutely nothing. I'm tired of wasting my time debating with such a fool

rage against the gold club

by erikj07 on Jul 31, 2007 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

he's actually

hitting .233 with a .333 OBP

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/B/Engel-Beltre.shtml

Duncan Hunter for President in '08

by dstar442005 on Jul 31, 2007 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

so are you saying

that no teenager can be considered a prospect.

by Lonerangers on Jul 31, 2007 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Of course not

Elvis ANdrus and Marcus Lemon are prospects. I'm saying that a 18 year old struggling the GCL is not a prospect, or at least, is too far away to be called the focal point of any deal.

by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2007 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yea well

i didn't call him the focal point of the deal. But when you get rid of a guy who was going to be of no use to your team for the next 2 fucking months, it's a win-win. Anybody who says otherwise is a moron. And he's not 18, he's 17.

by Lonerangers on Jul 31, 2007 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Except for

we could have gotten 2 draft picks out of it if we just kept Gagne.

Once again, the Red Sox package vs. Niel Ramirez/Michael Main, which one would you prefer.

by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2007 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well

seein as how we might not even sign ramirez, or whichever one of the picks we got next year. I think i would take the guys who have had at least some success above college or high school baseball.

by Lonerangers on Jul 31, 2007 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Except that

they really haven't had success.

But beyond that point, even as trade bait, which is more likely to attract a better offer, the Red Sox package or Niel Ramirez/Michael Main (or Julio Borbon and Michael Main, which ever way you slice it).

by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2007 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not even

going to list gabbard's stats because i'm sure you've looked at them already, but which ever way you slice it, Kason Gabbard has had success in the major leagues. Even if has been only 50 innings, he has still put up the numbers against ML hitters.

by Lonerangers on Jul 31, 2007 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Uh...

Except the Red Sox FBNation site had both Murphy and Gabbard in their Top 20 list of prospects as recently as two weeks ago.

Again, and I'm asking this seriously because I don't follow the minors like a lot of people here do, what am I missing?

Is everybody ready for diving?

by RadicalBender on Jul 31, 2007 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let me put it this way

if I told you we just traded John Rheniecker, Miguel Velazquez and Brandon Boggs for Joe Nathan, how much would you love me?

by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2007 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wait so...

because Beltre hasn't performed well yet doesn't make him a good prospect like Andrus but Rheinecker is the equivalent to Gabbard even though Rheinecker hasn't performed as well as Gabbard has at the major league level? I think you're contradicting yourself there.

by slimshadty12 on Jul 31, 2007 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

K

let's call Gabbard John Koronka then. Since Koronka, too, had a brief flash of success in the majors before bottoming out after he reverted to his peripherals caught up to him.

Elvis Andrus is a prospect because he's playing in an actual league, A+ in fact, that's far and away young for his league, by 4, 5 years. Engel Beltre is in ROOKIE league, and is a whooping 1.5 years younger. That's 3 levels of difference between them. Andrus is actually legitimately close, Beltre is not. If you can't wrap your head around why you don't trade a proven commodity for a guy who at best will help you in 5-6 years, then I don't know what to tell you.

To reiterate, the Rangers equivalent of this trade would have been

Johan Yan - Engel Beltre
John Koronka - Kason Gabbard
Brandon Boggs - David Murphy (except Boggs has much more upside, so maybe Kevin Mahar)

You're telling me, if we traded these three for a player like Gagne in the middle of the penant race, you wouldn't be laughing all the way out to the ballpark?

by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2007 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

firebat....

that comparison is ridiculous.

rage against the gold club

by erikj07 on Jul 31, 2007 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Ranger World Series Curse

It's a sure-thing now:

Atlanta vs. Boston in the World Series.

Texas Rangers: Suppliers to Champions!

"There is nothing worse than aggressive stupidity." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749 - 1832)

by Clueless on Jul 31, 2007 2:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

this gabbard guy

Isnt a kornka type. This guy is 4-0 with a 3.73 era. He is way better

R4N63R D4N63R

by OkieFromMuskogee on Jul 31, 2007 2:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

stats

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7821

stats for this season

R4N63R D4N63R

by OkieFromMuskogee on Jul 31, 2007 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

holy crap...

I saw a complete game in there. He is definately not going to fit in here.

by corbsclinton on Jul 31, 2007 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Uh Okie

Those are Major league stats, thats THE SHOW your talkin about.

We deal in minor league stats only here.

by TexGoesYard on Jul 31, 2007 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

uh

i hope your kidding

R4N63R D4N63R

by OkieFromMuskogee on Jul 31, 2007 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

most players need a little time to adjust

to a higher level, even the good ones.

by shallrelicme on Jul 31, 2007 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

uh

i hope your kidding

R4N63R D4N63R

by OkieFromMuskogee on Jul 31, 2007 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am okie.

by TexGoesYard on Jul 31, 2007 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

uh go fuck yourself

R4N63R D4N63R

by OkieFromMuskogee on Jul 31, 2007 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Koronka's first 7 starts

Koronka's stats through his first 7 starts last year:

4-1 49.2 IP 3.65 ERA

Gabbard's first 7 starts this year:

4-0 41 IP 3.73 ERA

Gabbard's peripherals are better, but the point is that Koronka also started pretty strong last year.

They have made many stories created on their own dreams.

by LukeR on Jul 31, 2007 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

gagne agreed

its done.

by DSheppard on Jul 31, 2007 2:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

from

what source

R4N63R D4N63R

by OkieFromMuskogee on Jul 31, 2007 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

espn

by DSheppard on Jul 31, 2007 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kason Gabbard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z66d9YDy-o

His line that game. Yes, it is against KC. Yes, we just got swept by KC:

W - 4-0 - 9.0 IP CG - 3H - 1BB - 8SO.

Find me a comparable start. Hell, the most recent start that was close was Rheinecker's.

41.0 IP with a 3.73 ERA.

Yeah, he's a scrub. rolls eyes

Quit looking a gift horse in the mouth, naysayers.

by bjtaylor on Jul 31, 2007 2:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Hey buddy

how bout you go on baseball cube and look up his minor league numbers. THen, if you still enjoy his career 4 BB/9 performance with 8H/9, then you're welcome to comeback and call us Naysayers. Until you do that, please shut up, we're trying to mope in peace.

by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2007 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

dude

get off of gagne's nuts

R4N63R D4N63R

by OkieFromMuskogee on Jul 31, 2007 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Your blood pressure

Has to be so high right now.

You are kicking and screaming to cut these guys off at the knees every chance you get, every post you see.

by TexGoesYard on Jul 31, 2007 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It is quite over the top

to say that Gabbard 'sucks'. He does walk an awful lot of batters, that concerns me. Gabbard is going to be in some trouble if he starts giving up more hits.

by bflood36 on Jul 31, 2007 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Which he likely will

since his career H/9 in the minors is 8.5, and his current H/9 in the majors is around 6.

by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2007 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

link

Gagne Goes Bye Bye

I like you, I like baseball!

by RangerMack on Jul 31, 2007 2:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

You should put a poll on this trade Adam

I give it a C+ because Gagne will probably be a Type A and Boston can use that to help restock what we just took and he will be great for them in the playoffs.

by shallrelicme on Jul 31, 2007 2:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Press conference

Rangers will have a 4 pm press conference, per the Ticket.

"Then I met some friends for a beer, went to a BoDeans's concert, and son of a vondruke, if I didn't leave him at the concert hall."

by RCCook on Jul 31, 2007 2:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Reasons why people use minor league numbers....

vs. major league numbers is the sample size issue.

It's really impossible to predict with any accuracy how someone will do based on 50 IP worth of data.

It's much easier to do it from ~500 IP worth of data.

And Bill James has shown that it is about as accurate to predict from minor league numbers as it is from major league numbers.

Therefore, most people now use minor league stats to predict potential major league performance.

Of course, this DOESN'T mean that anything is guaranteed (for instance, no one KNOWS what Gabbard, Murphy, etc. will do). But you can have a sense of what they're VERY LIKELY to do.

On a completely separate topic, I did not know that Murphy was a good defensive CF. That makes him better, because if he does fail to hit (and he very likely will), then, at least he can be a decent 4th-5th OF.

That's still not a big upside.

OTOH, in response to the Linebrink return not being realistic. The point is that he netted THREE guys who I'd rather have than any of the guys we got back for Gagne. That's how bad this trade was, IMO.

Req

by Requiem on Jul 31, 2007 3:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs