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Politics, and what players talk about

Amusing item on Page 2 about politics and players' lack of interest in same, which includes some comments from C.J. Wilson.

But my favorite part was this:

Indeed, a top 10 list of spring training topics discussed by ballplayers would look something like this:
  1. Baseball
  2. Free sunglasses
  3. Breasts
4-5. Jesus/golf (tie)
  1. Dinner options
  2. The Kyle Kendrick YouTube video
  3. Britney Spears
  4. Strip clubs
  5. More Jesus/golf (tie)

0 recs | Comment 49 comments

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CJ on fire
Look at that...most recent story and diary.  Safe to say he's the community favorite at this point, by far.  Black Glove Righty is barely even on the radar.

"Breasts".  Funny.  Isn't that in the top 3 of any discussion list among straight guys?  Just like "dick" is in the top 3 among gay guys.  The libido is a powerful beast.

Obama - ??? 2008 : He's not Hillary

by RangerMoto on Feb 24, 2008 7:49 PM CST   0 recs

BGL a community favorite...
and justifiably so. I mean how many players get on a fan site and chat with some of the fans? Even with ST just starting, he still finds a few minutes to let us know some of his thoughts about what he has seen so far. Pretty cool in my book.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Feb 24, 2008 8:22 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

absolutely agree
Obama - ??? 2008 : He's not Hillary

by RangerMoto on Feb 24, 2008 9:46 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Laird...
Reminds me alot of Kobe...

Each dominant in their respected sports...

THE ANTI-BEAST

by miles on Feb 24, 2008 11:02 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

They can both beat you
in so many ways.
"I didn't even pay attention to it. I'm so over all of that. I was playing golf." -- Kevin Millwood, on Roger Clemens' appearance before Congress

by Chase Irwin on Feb 24, 2008 11:41 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

The only
thing Gerald Laird can beat me at is number of glazed donuts eaten in 10 minutes.
THE ANTI-BEAST

by miles on Feb 24, 2008 11:46 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Hey Miles...
Thanks for the new sig.
"The only thing Gerald Laird can beat me at is number of glazed donuts eaten on 10 minutes" - Miles

by lonestarJon on Feb 25, 2008 12:03 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

hell yes
Rex Hudler is in demand as a motivational speaker.

by Brian Thomas on Feb 25, 2008 3:16 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

What if they...
could talk about Jesus playing golf? That way they could at least fit another topic into their top 10.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Feb 24, 2008 8:18 PM CST   0 recs

Then
They could also debate whether or not Jesus would have a golf cart, a caddy, or carry his own clubs.
"Who is the new face of the Mavs? I don't know. Is Jason Kidd the new face of the Mavs? I don't know. I don't really care..." - Michael Young

by lonestarJon on Feb 24, 2008 9:16 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Jesus/Golf...
So Jesus and Moses are playing golf when they come up to a long par 3 over a large water trap. Jesus tees off and hits it into the water, so he re-tees and hits it agian...water. Moses says c'mon Jesus lets go up and take your drop so we can get moving. Jesus says "No", I can make this shot, I saw Arnold Palmer stick it within 3 feet, I know I can do it. After 3-4 more tee shots land in the water, the 4-some behind them has caught up and are becoming visibly frustrated. One of the men approaches Moses and says "why doesn't your friend just go to the drop zone, who does he think he is Jesus Christ?" Moses replies, "No...... he thinks he's Arnold Palmer"

by Topgun22 on Feb 24, 2008 10:03 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

You know...
I just finished actually reading the entire article above... and I have to say, really, who gives a damn if Major League players care about politics or not? Why must we bring the plague of political polarization into every aspect of our lives?

You just simply cannot have a discussion about subjects as wieghty as politics in a major league clubhouse - these guys have to play together, live together on the road all year. They have to gel, and act as a team - you cannot have them arguing among themselves about Obama, Hillary, or McCain. Such opinions are very strong, and discussing them in the clubhouse, where you're going to have guys with vastly different opinions, is bound to create in-house polarization - a very bad thing for a unit such as a baseball team. So to say that their apparent lack of care for the election is "inexcusable" is just plain assenine.

Why is it that some people inist politics penetrate every aspect of our lives? In my opinion, the Democrat/Republican split in this country has gone way too far... at some point, we've got to remember that we're all Americans, and we tend to loose sight of that, especially around election time. I'm not saying politics isn't important - but there's certain places where it must be left at home, or it's going to ruin the atmosphere. Two things I think politics should stay out of: music and sports. Those should be society's two refuges from the sometimes alienating views and discusions of politics, not the next political battlegrounds.

Sorry, Adam, if this comment here is in fact too political for this thread - feel free to delete it if you like, I know you like to keep the political discussions limited in their own sphere around here - but I just felt the need to make this point, that politics needs to stay at home sometimes.

"Who is the new face of the Mavs? I don't know. Is Jason Kidd the new face of the Mavs? I don't know. I don't really care..." - Michael Young

by lonestarJon on Feb 24, 2008 9:37 PM CST   0 recs

Ok, I'll bite
We should give a damn because every person should care about the future of our country, spoiled athlete down to crack-whore.  And though you read the article, you seem to be taking it way too seriously and maybe missing the point.  I seriously doubt the writer wanted to inflame sports with political partisanship, he was just pointing out the players' complete apathy and lack of awareness.  He was not trying to say that our sportscasts should include political commentary.

Music should be free of politics?  Huh?  

Um, Bob Dylan, Bob Geldof, John Lennon, Woody Guthrie, Chopin was banned in his native Poland, Wagner has been played by exactly one artist in Israel's history (Barenboim), Shostakovich and Prokofiev lived under perpetual fear for their lives in Stalin's USSR, there have been campaign songs since the Van Buren presidential campaign, Handel wrote a Te Deum to celebrate the peace at Utrecht,

In short, if you ban politics from music, you lose hundreds of masterpieces of classical music, and many of the greatest rock/folk/rap/country, etc. songs ever written.  I don't want a world without Imagine, Chopin's Heroic Polonaise, Shostakovich's 10th Symphony, Sunday Bloody Sunday, or even I Like Ike, thank you very much.  

I don't care if baseball players get smart about politics.  But music without politics?  No thanks.

A working class hero is something to be.

by t ball on Feb 24, 2008 10:22 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Perhaps I did take to big of a leap
In interpreting this article - in which case, I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to stir up any controversy, that's just how I feel.

As for politics and music, I just have never seen it cause anything but negativity in my time - a prime example would be the Dixie Chicks. Great artists, but one stupid comment later, they're all of a sudden blackballed by the entire country music community. Unfortunate, and unescessary, in my opinion - I didn't agree with what they said, but the way it was handled by the media and the industry was atrocious.

I don't claim to have seen it all or done it all, but in my experience, I've just found that America is so polarized politically (especially lately), the very mention of politics tends to controversialize and ruin anything it touches. And I'm just a little tired of seeing that already.

"Who is the new face of the Mavs? I don't know. Is Jason Kidd the new face of the Mavs? I don't know. I don't really care..." - Michael Young

by lonestarJon on Feb 24, 2008 10:40 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Get used to it
sadly...and regardless of your chosen side.
They like to keep us fighting while they steal all of our stuff!

Fight the Power!

I'll be a Troll. Try crossing my bridge, Sally!

by Clueless on Feb 24, 2008 11:11 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

RATM
one of my all time favorite bands. They really opened my eyes to a lot of things going on in the world that i never would have known or heard about because the mass media didn't talk about it.

And at the time they were at the height of their popularity the internet was nowhere near what it is today, so information about such subjects wasn't the easiest thing to come by.

Side note, system of a down has done a good job of carrying on the political fueled hard rock/metal torch.

Theory: Jeter wears rings on fielding hand,rendering fielding borderline impossible.

by rentz on Feb 25, 2008 6:46 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Music without politics
That's about as likely as music without drugs...
Rex Hudler is in demand as a motivational speaker.

by Brian Thomas on Feb 25, 2008 3:16 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

+1
"heres to you brett for making me get all wet" -NYTXFAN

by jparks77 on Feb 25, 2008 5:36 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

This is what i thought of this stupid article
Jeff,

I just finished reading your article on the topic of Major League Baseball players and their political indifference, and I felt the need to respond. Your article portrays, unfairly and inaccurately, the majority of baseball players as being immature and intellectually stunted. While I hesitate to call this article offensive, because the word is overused, I will say that the lack of research on your part leads the reader to the common generalization that athletes are stupid.

In thinking of a response to this article I was unable to find a good jumping off point, so I think it might be easier to just go through the article itself and point out where I think you're off base.

The Texas Rangers' clubhouse is, unlike 99.9 percent of American institutions, extremely diverse. Where else can you find a 30-something Nicaraguan splitting a bag of sunflower seeds with a 25-year-old Hawaiian? Where else can you find people of pink and brown and yellow and tan skin gathered in a circle guffawing about YouTube videos? Where else can you find someone like Josh Hamilton, a white recovering drug addict from North Carolina, spending much of his day alongside Milton Bradley, a loquacious African-American man from California?

This is true.

Here, within the confines of these four walls, the general manager is a young New Yorker (30-year-old Jon Daniels), the manager is a middle-aged African-American (56-year-old Ron Washington) and the rising star is a young, heavily tattooed Floridian (22-year-old Jarrod Saltalamacchia).

Re-hashing the first paragraph, but OK.

Yet while ballplayers are bound both by their disparate backgrounds and an uncompromised love of the game, they are also united by one not-so-great characteristic: political indifference.

  United: agreed, in harmony. Wrong word choice here. To my knowledge we have never had a large meeting as baseball players citing the need for 'unity' in our 'political indifference'. Some baseball players are politically indifferent. Some baseball players are politically active yet do not discuss it in a baseball setting. Some baseball players, who you will later allude to, are politically active and vocal in their opinions.

So saying that we are 'united' isn't correct.

  Yes, in this remarkable year of presidential politics -- when John McCain has risen from the dead, and Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are engaged in a historic struggle for delegates; when dynamic figures like Rudy Giuliani and Ron Paul and John Edwards fell short but fought passionately --

Sorta true. I'll let pass the thought while all the candidates have strengths, they all have critical flaws that have can make them unappealing. In my research (asking friends and family), I have found that none of these candidates are particularly exciting, possibly leading to some of the indifference.

baseball players kick back and, ahem, read their Maxims.

Now you're venturing off course. Every morning I see a number of players doing a crossword puzzle. I see a few card games, and I always see a high number of guys reading the newspaper (and not just the sports section). Based on what I see everyday, I would hesitate to make a general assumption as to the intelligence level and political consciousness of those in the room. I wish that you had done the same.

On a side note, I'd guess that the demographic at which Maxim aims its' publication is males ages 18-35. I'll let you do the math on the ages of most major league baseball players. It's not a crime to read the magazine, so the indignation in which you use to pose the idea that we're reading Maxim as opposed to the New Yorker is unnecessary.

  "It's frustrating," says C.J. Wilson, the 27-year-old Texas relief pitcher. "I'd say there are two reasons. One, there's a general lack of education among us. But two -- and most important -- you're talking about a population that makes a ton of money, so the ups and downs of the economy don't impact whether we're getting paid. Therefore, we often don't care."

The money issue here is a valid point but it's not the only reason.

  In saying "we," Wilson is speaking about nearly every Ranger -- except himself. A free-thinking Californian with an appreciation for Obama, a dislike of Bush, a hatred of the Clintons, a detestation of SUVs, and a longing for a grass-roots political movement that would truly represent the needs of the people, Wilson stares blankly when asked who among his teammates he can talk with about Decision '08.

  "No one," he says. "I keep it to myself."

  While a few Rangers profess moderate interest ("Obama's inspired me," says outfielder Jason Ellison. "I have a 2-year-old daughter and I want her to grow up in a healthy country"), most merely shrug their shoulders or offer a half-hearted "I'm just focused on playing ball and helping the team win," when asked about the upcoming election. Some call themselves conservatives, others call themselves moderates, but few seem to actually know what the two terms mean. "It's not that complex," Wilson says. "Baseball players think about baseball."

  I really wonder how many people you interviewed, and what the circumstances were surrounding your questioning. I know that if you asked me when I was heading to or returning from a workout, which is 90% of the time for most players in the clubhouse, I wouldn't be in a hurry to talk politics. I can only imagine it was the same for most of your interviewees.

  Not that this is simply a Rangers phenomenon. Throughout spring training clubhouses in Arizona and Florida, politics fail to generate interest. Finding someone who has participated in a state primary or caucus is slightly harder than finding a cinematic role for Meeno Peluce. The majority of players are almost certainly not even registered to vote. On the morning following last Tuesday's highly publicized Wisconsin Democratic primary, nary a Ranger nor Kansas City Royal could be heard talking about the results. Heck, no one even seemed to know the event took place.

Meeno Peluce?? I'm guessing you googled 'obscure actors' and found this random name to insert into your article.

  Anyways, a group of 20-30 yr olds not being completely current on the Wisconsin Democratic Primary is hardly an indictment on our group's knowledge as a whole.

I'm also bothered by the fact that you've failed to mention that we're going through the primaries and caucuses and not the general election. I'd be willing to bet that come late summer and early fall when the race really heats up, that there will be political conversation to be found in MLB clubhouses.

 Indeed, a top 10 list of spring training topics discussed by ballplayers would look something like this:

  1. Baseball
  2. Free sunglasses
  3. Breasts
4-5. Jesus/golf (tie)
  1. Dinner options
  2. The Kyle Kendrick YouTube video
  3. Britney Spears
  4. Strip clubs
  5. More Jesus/golf (tie)
Yuck. Allow me to present Jeff Pearlman's top 10 list of topics discussed in his office setting:
  1. The selection of Raul Castro to replace his brother in Cuba.
  2. The destruction of the dead satellite by the US, and it's global ramifications.
  3. The impending recession
  4. The impact of Ralph Nader's run for office and its' effect on the democratic race
  5. The entire works of Dostoyevsky
  6. Sports
  7. Meeno Peluce and his inability to get consistent work
  8. Barry Bonds
  9. The democratic primaries
10.The republican primaries

Of course this is just a shot in the dark. Either way, I'm sure it's very similar to this.

"Baseball players are inherently selfish," says Brian Johnson, the former major league catcher. "Everything is about 'me.' People want my autograph, people want to see me, people want to watch my games on TV. Everyone works around my schedule, even my wife and kids. So it's hard to have a global or national perspective when everything is about you."

This is probably dead on. Of course a baseball player's career lasts in the neighborhood of ten to fifteen years. It's an incredibly demanding profession in which there's very little room for error, so being selfish is somewhat of a prerequisite. I'll bet if you conducted interviews with ex-baseball players who are now in their 40's and 50's you'd find a group with much more refined political ideologies.

What many ballplayers fail to understand is that, in terms of policy, they will be as impacted by this fall's election as anyone. While McCain plans on upholding the tax cuts enacted under George W. Bush, both Obama and Clinton want tax breaks to expire for Americans making more than $200,000 per year. (Read: baseball players.) Though McCain has said little about automobile emissions, Obama and Clinton have demanded drastic improvements in fuel efficiency standards. (The unofficial baseball player vehicle of choice? The mighty Hummer.)

These issues do impact us. We are not however, a group that politicians are trying to get votes from. With there being 900 MLB players, and with only 50% at best actually voting, 450 votes isn't swinging the race in any direction.

Also, I count one Hummer in our parking lot. 60 players in Major league camp. One Hummer. Looks like you ventured back into an over generalization again.

 The list goes on and on.

If there is hope for a change of thinking in athletes, it comes in the form of those retirees primed for political runs. Former Mets ace Al Leiter often discussed delving into the political arena, and Johnson hasn't ruled out a governmental future in his home state of Michigan. Certainly men like Wilson and Curt Schilling are candidates to one day wind up in Washington. And there's always Charles Barkley, a fiscally conservative, socially liberal native Alabaman who recently told CNN that he would vie for the governorship of his home state in 2014.

  Your first line really makes no sense. Retired athletes are much different than athletes who are still playing. Jim Bunning didn't change the political awareness for future generations of baseball players, so why would anyone else be different? I mentioned it earlier that retired players would give you much different answers than you got in our clubhouse. This brings me to my main point and my reason for thinking this is a terrible article. Why don't athletes care? According to you it's because we're a bunch of trash mag reading, strip clubbing, selfish pampered rich kids with no sense of the outside world.

If I wrote an article on this subject I'd go on the theory that maybe baseball players don't care because most of us are in our twenties and early thirties. I'd be interested to see how many people our age in other walks of life are discussing the Wisconsin Democratic Primaries.  

Lastly, why do you care if we care? How does that affect any one of your readers? Do you want baseball cards that read: Mike Smith bats/throws R/L 6'4 200 lbs. Political views; Fiscal conservative, social liberal? For the life of me I can't figure out your reasoning behind writing this article.

Until then, please pass the Maxim. I hear Avril Lavigne's on the cover.

Again, Yuck.

Brandon McCarthy
Texas Rangers

The SEC now officially has to pay taxes on Ohio St.

by BlackGloveRighty on Feb 25, 2008 12:48 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Eeeeyouuch!!!
That was excellent, B-Mac. You sound 10 times smarter than Pearlman - dead on, buddy.

Aside from the fact that Pearlman appears to be trying to ignite some kind of political controversy about the so-called "ignorance" of today's atheletes (which you pretty much disproved with that well-written letter), I really don't know why that article was written either. Guess the guy had a deadline to make?

BTW, good luck on Wensday.

"The only thing Gerald Laird can beat me at is number of glazed donuts eaten in 10 minutes" - Miles

by lonestarJon on Feb 25, 2008 1:03 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

many state primaries
broke turnout records. Obama is closing in a 1 million contributors. That's not indifference my friend. That's a movement.

by SteveP on Feb 25, 2008 1:12 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Jeff Pearlman
PWNT.
"I didn't even pay attention to it. I'm so over all of that. I was playing golf." -- Kevin Millwood, on Roger Clemens' appearance before Congress

by Chase Irwin on Feb 25, 2008 1:14 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Man....
I do applaud you for this obviously impassioned response to what amounts to nothing more than trash journalism.

Can't say that I'm surprised that this dude has a Barry Bonds book out, either.

I gotta say, though, if you are going to get this riled up over some random journalist's scattershot attempt to make a stupid joke and stir a pot that probably shouldn't have even been touched in the first place; you, sir, are going to have alot of very long, semi-stressful diatribes in what should hopefully be a great career.

P.S. I honestly think that you just became my favorite baseball personality, though.

P.P.S. C.J. Wilson would have had a pretty solid shot at the personality title except he let Anthony Andro get away with saying that "straight edge" was from the California punk rock scene in his piece about the tattoos a few days ago.

Tisk, tisk.

Last time I checked, Ian MacKaye was from DC. No love lost, though.

by IPuntSmallDogs on Feb 25, 2008 1:30 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Thanks.
Just giving you a hard time.

Love your work, big guy.

by IPuntSmallDogs on Feb 25, 2008 11:58 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

wowzas
First, I wasn't aware Brandon McCarthy was visiting and posting on LSB.  If you're indeed the real B-Mac then that's pretty sweet, and hello, and I'm a fan, and good luck in 2008.

It's neat that you took the time to respond to the article.  There's plenty of awful, awful writers out there, and I like it when smart ballplayers call them out.  It doesn't happen often enough.

One thing I will sort of agree with Pearlman on (although I don't know this was his point): I think baseball players absolutely should be politically active and involved.  As a highly public figure, they have powers that us regular civilians just don't.  Athletes (and actors, musicians, whatever) should reach out, engage their fans and encourage everyone to be involved and educated and interested in politics and the world around them.

They don't have to.  I don't think it's their "responsibility".  But I think they should because it's the right thing to do.

There's an important distinction, too: I don't care for famous people campaigning for their favorite cause (because, really, I'm not voting for president based on what George Cloony or the guitar player from Green Day think).  Instead, those people should get their fans to pick up a paper, read about issues and make up their own minds.

by alon91 on Feb 25, 2008 2:09 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Excellent response

I think that as well as putting players political views on  baseball cards we should also add clutch and grit ratings.
Theory: Jeter wears rings on fielding hand,rendering fielding borderline impossible.

by rentz on Feb 25, 2008 6:47 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Great, pointed response
I would bet you have Jeff P fairly excited about getting a direct response, albeit one that counterfeits his article.  He attempts a stereotype redux, reviving the shaky value systems of vagabond ballplayers from the 1920's (which also may have been a stretch).

I'd also venture that people my age (born in 1937) have more to say about political candidacy, but seldom actually go active within campaigns, than those in their 20's and 30's.  

Heh .. we also don't drive Hummers, yet are pretty disdainful of Prius's.  :)  

'At Georgia Southern, we don't cheat. That costs money and we don't have any.' Erk Russell / Georgia Southern

by Ed Coffin on Feb 25, 2008 9:16 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Love seeing the thought out response
But it's going to suck hardcore when we see "Rangers place RHP Brandon McCarthy on the 15-day DL with carpal tunnel syndrome."
"But the major difference is where Showalter tried to overthink everything Washington at times seems like he isn't thinking at all. " - rentz

by hillcrest on Feb 25, 2008 9:26 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

BlackGloveRighty
This was great - very well written (although it would have been easier to read if you had differentiated Pearlman's text). Pearlman's piece should have been titled "What I'd Like To See Players Care About", because who the hell is he to suggest what anyone should care about?

by Randy Richardson on Feb 25, 2008 10:01 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

it was
differentiated when I copied it but for some reason it didn't carry over.
The SEC now officially has to pay taxes on Ohio St.

by BlackGloveRighty on Feb 25, 2008 2:51 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

good take BGR
its good to read the thoughts  of ballplayers, i think it gives a more intimate relationship with us fans.  hope management understands that with BGL and BGR.  
.500 or bust!

by Jayslick on Feb 26, 2008 10:27 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Some good thoughts, but ...
young voters are becoming a much more significant voting block. Our turnout has been increasing dramatically over recent elections -- and, for the first time, Obama's campaign has shown that you can count on our support when the votes are counted.

That said, I am incredibly politically active and aware -- and I do not talk politics at work. Why? We're there to work -- politics can be divisive when people are passionate about different candidates and different issues. When you have to work with these people every day, it's not a safe issue to bring up.

Finally, can you repeat your little survey, take a look in that parking lot and tell us how many full-size SUVs and trucks, including but not limited to the one Hummer there are? Just for kicks, how many hybrids or ULEV (or better) vehicles are there?

by devo on Feb 27, 2008 3:26 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

BRITNEY SPEARS???
These guys need to run a lot more laps.
I'll be a Troll. Try crossing my bridge, Sally!

by Clueless on Feb 24, 2008 11:08 PM CST   0 recs

OT: Oscars...
Daniel Day Lewis won best actor, Coen Brothers got best Director(s), and No Country For Old Men won best picture.

I don't really have a problem with any of those winners. I figured the first two, but for some reason I thought There Will Be Blood would take best picture. Thoughts?

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Feb 24, 2008 11:08 PM CST   0 recs

I thought No Country was way better
but I have no frame of reference to judge whether this is a surprising Oscar decision or not.

by a bebop a rebop on Feb 24, 2008 11:16 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Quite taken aback
Seeing Cormac McCarthy show up, quite a surprise.

My gut feeling was No Country would have the right combination of popular and critical momentum.

Disappointed Diving Bell didn't get best director, or at least best cinematography (where it really distinguished itself).  That movie was just sublime.

Actually I'd have preferred Anderson getting Director over the Cohens, even though I liked NCFOM better.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Feb 24, 2008 11:25 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Related to earlier comments
Every day I leave my house and go to bed about 16 hours later having thought on almost no occasion about who's in office.

I haven't read Pearlman's thing yet but the insinuation that it's dumb to overlook presidential politics is disappointing.  Presidential races are on par with wrestling:  pick a bad guy, pick a good guy, root accordingly (then go back to your real life).  It's a verbal activity, not an action activity, so you can bet it's a vanity activity.

Sadly this extends to most political dialogue.  It's just argument.  Especially online.

The thing you hear in college is that the personal is political.  I still don't know what this means.  I'd bet it hasn't proved out for most educated job-holders in the West.  My goals are influenced by my own decisions, not a politician, not a political issue, probably not even a policy.

I'm not trying to throw a molotov cocktail.  I don't know, sometimes I think of a political biography essay I read by Norman Podhoretz that I think David Brooks linked.  It reminded me a little of my own process of hearing about bands I liked, books I liked, one leads to another.

The big difference of course is everyone knows bands and books are just entertainment.  My experience is that politics and its ideas haven't gotten over the pretense to be something higher.

I've wanted to say that a long time.  I guess I'd like to hear thoughts on how people's day-to-day lives are observably changed by politics.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Feb 24, 2008 11:51 PM CST   0 recs

Can you elaborate on this?
"The big difference of course is everyone knows bands and books are just entertainment.  My experience is that politics and its ideas haven't gotten over the pretense to be something higher."

Are you actually saying politics and government shouldn't aspire to something higher than entertainment?

Rex Hudler is in demand as a motivational speaker.

by Brian Thomas on Feb 25, 2008 6:06 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I think the point he's making
Is people don't start hating each other over entertainment. But they do over politics. I think what he's trying to say is, maybe people shouldn't get so incensed by the politcal rivalries of today. That's not to say that politics aren't very important, very serious issues that should be paid attention too, but we shouldn't start hating each other over Dem/Republican issues.

I believe something similar happened back in the 1800's... it turned into the Civil War.

"The only thing Gerald Laird can beat me at is number of glazed donuts eaten in 10 minutes" - Miles

by lonestarJon on Feb 25, 2008 6:19 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Yah
You could use abortion as an example.

Paying for one for your friend, or agreeing to adopt the child after she carries it...those actions are relevant to some kind of politics.

The political discussion going on outside of it, especially arguing, has no real use.  It's vanity.

And I've never had to convince my pregnant roommate not to abort, or do the equivalent for any other political "issue."  I wager none of us ever really are in that position whatever the issue.

I leave politics to politicians, who make life sacrifices (and probably learn a lot along the way) in order to have their policy influence.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Feb 26, 2008 12:54 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Well
I'm saying politics and government are consumed by people the same way entertainment is.

As the fly on the wall sees it, it's just people arguing or agreeing, in both cases.  The decisions they make to live their actual life don't intersect with government and political issues.

I'm not saying this for shock value.  I genuinely ask for examples of how politics actually shows up in people's lives.

The acts of politicians never seem to change mine, and I bet they don't the lives of people arguing political topics either.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Feb 26, 2008 12:59 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I work in the Defense industry
So national politics can have a pretty direct effect on my life. I'll concede that it doesn't have an influence that's easy to discern for most.

Obviously, it is a polarizing topic that frequently leads to bickering, but you seem to imply that if there's not something in it for numero uno, why bother?

Is that what you are saying? Being informed is for suckers?

 

Rex Hudler is in demand as a motivational speaker.

by Brian Thomas on Feb 26, 2008 1:16 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Being informed is for suckers
I'm saying that's no more true for politics than for something like books or entertainment.

Both involve ideas, neither involves much action, and life decisions are based on completely separate things.

Actually I favor books because I understand my participation.  I'm the audience.  I could possibly even read something, write a letter to the author and surprise him with a new interpretation.  Probably not likely, but possible.

With politics, the connection the informed has is  murkier and, I'm suggesting, specious.

When you mention the DOD it reminds me of grad school in DC.  My roommate was an intern at NSA.

He'd come home some days with a dazed look on his face, and talk vaguely about what a fucked up world we live in.

If I asked what he was talking about, he'd say he couldn't say.

Now that, to me, is politics.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Feb 26, 2008 6:28 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

reinstate the draft
and I bet they start talking about politics.

by SteveP on Feb 25, 2008 12:30 AM CST   0 recs

Sounds
like a bad idea!  lol
THE ANTI-BEAST

by miles on Feb 25, 2008 12:35 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

That discussion would be about
ending the draft, little else.
Proud supporter of elbow-challenged pitchers.

by TheRupeIsOnFire on Feb 26, 2008 9:33 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Fidel Castro
Fidel's playing minor league ball is the only political/baseball cross germination that I care about.  

by bushe on Feb 25, 2008 8:10 AM CST   0 recs

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